How to Get the Younguns

[OooMatron]

How to get the younguns?

You need to leave a trail of small pieces of World of Warcraft away from the PC, across the kitchen and into the study, where you can hit them over the head with a copy of BRP.

[seneschal]

I agree that props are essential. My first role-playing experience with my kids was a failure. The second time I used household toys to represent player-characters, monsters, and scenery. They got into it.

[Skunkape]

My current group is composed of mostly experienced players, and I can tell you that even they get excited when I pull out a prop for them, so I agree that adding them when dealing with younguns would work quite well.

[GianniVacca]

I've run my first game for kids using the plastic miniatures from Heroscape and the props (terrain, trees, columns, weapon cards...) from the D&D boardgame. It was a great success. The kids had great fun.

[TRose]

To get new players show up at your game store ready to run a game, and remember to be gentle with the new players. BRP caan be quit deadly to new players who dont know the system and if you kill off everyone first time, chance are they wont come back. so no trolls with Halberds even if you only give them a 20% chance to hit.

[bloodshadows]

I've done my part. A friend of mine who loves Call of Cthulhu and the system, in particular, had apparently turned his 16yr old son onto the game. I've got more copies of the game than I know what to do with so I gave him one.

Now I need to talk to them about the wonders of BRP.....

[Simlasa]

David ultimately had some chances against Goliath, let's be honest. But Dobyski versus Larry Elmore..... tsk!

Yeah, that's one of the things that kept me playing RQ... never could stand Elmore's art.

This discussion of 'how to get the younguns' reminds me of my friend whose only experience of gaming was seeing 'creepy guys in the back room at the comic book store and the little boys they brought with them'... he suspected it was some sort of NAMBLA convention.

[Dredj]

Yeah, that's one of the things that kept me playing RQ... never could stand Elmore's art.

This discussion of 'how to get the younguns' reminds me of my friend whose only experience of gaming was seeing 'creepy guys in the back room at the comic book store and the little boys they brought with them'... he suspected it was some sort of NAMBLA convention.

I've noticed that the word 'creepy' is being overused for EVERYTHING that's unusual in recent years. Usually, the people who use it are sometimes people who need to get out more, but definitely need to interact more with people outside of their narrow range of social interactions. I don't know your friend, of course. I'm just saying that's what I notice from people who use that word often for things they don't understand.

Also, what's this fixation with pedophilia that almost everyone seems to have, nowadays?

[Harshax]

There are a few things needed to attract more gamers (of any age).

Good Settings: Evocative, with great art, and is accessible to home brewed scenarios.

Prolific writers.

Third party support.

[Simlasa]

Also, what's this fixation with pedophilia that almost everyone seems to have, nowadays?

I think it's mostly due to news people looking for 'exciting' stories...

It's silly to me but it has effected my comfort level around kids... even older ones... because it feels like everyone is prone to assume the worst.

Anyway... I didn't see the guys my friend was referring to... I assume he'd find most gamer types 'creepy'... but he's a suspicious sort of guy... he'd definitely find a thread called 'how to get the younguns' suspicious.

[Dredj]

I think it's mostly due to news people looking for 'exciting' stories...

It's silly to me but it has effected my comfort level around kids... even older ones... because it feels like everyone is prone to assume the worst.

Anyway... I didn't see the guys my friend was referring to... I assume he'd find most gamer types 'creepy'... but he's a suspicious sort of guy... he'd definitely find a thread called 'how to get the younguns' suspicious.

I'm running into an awful lot of people like your friend lately. Also, I agree about your above comment about people assuming the worst. Pretty much everyone I know has had their comfort zone effected from people assuming the worst about this kind of thing.

[seneschal]

The "creepy guy in the back room" phenomenon is a legitimate concern. To attract younger gamers we have to create a family friendly environment. Not immediately killing off a new player's starting character is only part of that.

A couple bad examples: I've taken my kids to a couple local game/comic shops. At one, teen and pre-teen Halo players greeted us by loudly cursing like sailors at the online action. My 11-year-old son said he had no desire to return to that location. Another store hosts Saturday HeroClix sessions ... in a dirty, cramped back room with icky bathroom facilities. Ruthless gameplay wasn't so much a concern, but the language and attitudes of older players was. One insisted on using foul language and discussing questionable topics despite remonstrance by another player (not me) that children were present. And tournament play required participants to purchase new playing pieces on a regular basis, OK perhaps for singles with no responsibilities but not sustainable when you've got kids to house and feed.

If we want to attract younger players, we'll have to adjust our language, dress, behavior and possibly playing style as well. If I want 10-year-olds to participate, perhaps I shouldn't run that half-demon lesbian axe murderer even if she does happen to be my favorite character. My campaign scenarios perhaps should be more upbeat, less violent, less focused on the occult, should avoid some topics altogether. Maybe I shouldn't wear that T-shirt featuring the nearly nude female warrior with blood dripping from her scimitar. Does it cramp my 40-something '70s sci fi nerd style to do so? Maybe. But such sacrifices may be necessary if I'm to win the enthusiasm of new players and (as importantly) the trust of their parents.

[soltakss]

I think it's mostly due to news people looking for 'exciting' stories...

It's silly to me but it has effected my comfort level around kids... even older ones... because it feels like everyone is prone to assume the worst.

That's their problem, not mine.

To be honest, though, the only contact I have with children is with my nephews and they have never expressed an interest in roleplaying, in fact I doubt if they know that Uncle Simon plays silly games.

But, I have seen kids at conventions happily playing RPGs.

Anyway... I didn't see the guys my friend was referring to... I assume he'd find most gamer types 'creepy'... but he's a suspicious sort of guy... he'd definitely find a thread called 'how to get the younguns' suspicious.

What do we play? Roleplaying GAMES.

Who normally plays games? Kids.

I can't see anything wrong with a thread aimed at attracting more children into roleplaying.

Could my idea of a tube of Smarties in every box be misconstrued, then?

Believe me, if people wanted to find things about roleplaying that scared them off there's a lot scarier than this thread.

[Simlasa]

What do we play? Roleplaying GAMES.

Who normally plays games? Kids.

I've been playing with a new group lately... and sometimes the son of a couple of them comes along... but he doesn't play with us... instead he sits on the couch and plays with his handheld Nintendo.

It might be his parents' choice to exclude him... I don't know... but he seems awfully content to just play video games.

I wonder if, for him, it's kind of like it is for me when I watch my parent's play Bridge...

[kustenjaeger]

Greetings

My children knew from a young age that their father played wierd games but telling them fantasy stories led to an interest in roleplaying (our son was also getting into Warhammer). We started with D&D for ease of getting into but they've been playing a variety of RPGs for a few years. Our son is 17 now and three of his friends play too - in fact he is running a D20 Star Wars game later this evening (a combat heavy clone wars commando game as his sister is away ).

We've also played a tweaked MRQ and they like D100 as a style to play but I think I'm the only one who would run it.

Some of my university friends have certainly had some success getting their own children to play but I think it has all been 'at home' with friends rather than in a game store environment.

Regards

Edward

[soltakss]

Some of my university friends have certainly had some success getting their own children to play but I think it has all been 'at home' with friends rather than in a game store environment.

Most of my games have been with friends. I tried a RPG club once but it was too geeky and they played lots of different games, not my kind of thing at all.

I've never played in a RPG shop, again the participants tend to be far too geeky for me.

An RPG club would definitely be a good idea as teenagers tend to congregate in clubs of various kinds. Those who would be naturally attracted to Roleplaying Games would be a bit geeky themselves (myself obviously excluded - that's why I am on an RPG Forum on a Saturday night) and would find a home-from-home there. (Us loners need to stick together).

Edited July 12, 2008 by soltakss

[mrk]

Unless maybe one of the players turned their son or daughter onto RPG's and brought them along, I tend to prefer gaming with older people.

[FunGuyFromYuggoth]

It's going to be an uphill fight to get pen & paper games back into the spotlight. Teens are typically distracted and pulled in different directions by overscheduling, console and PC games, part-time jobs, iPods, a new blockbuster every weekend of the summer, and the Internet to name a few. Pen & paper games depend on a level of focus that demands planning and preparation. See the rise of collective card games. Easy to sell, package, and play. No prep time needed and addictive (never liked them myself, but alot of others sure did). Also, faddish and ultimately people put them down as quickly as they picked them up.

Perhaps something in the mass media? Comic books have clawed their way back to the spotlight with movies based, but few pen & paper games translate well to cinema (see the D&D movie) and even a moderate level of collateral interest (see LOTR) the effect on the demographic may instead spark an interest in selling toys or video games, not pen & paper books.

I agree with Jason. If the big box stores had more GAMES in the shelves besides WotC products, people might actually flip through the pages and buy them. The problem is the price, but with video games hovering at around the $60 price point, perhaps getting them to buy a $40 book isn't as much of an issue as getting them to read it, convince their friends its worth spending a few hours with, and fitting it into their schedules.

Or not.

To be truthful, I think the future are the online MMORPG who have effectively moved into the heroic fantasy genre, science fiction, superheroes, etc.

[Ars Mysteriorum]

It's going to be an uphill fight to get pen & paper games back into the spotlight. Teens are typically distracted and pulled in different directions by overscheduling, console and PC games, part-time jobs, iPods, a new blockbuster every weekend of the summer, and the Internet to name a few. Pen & paper games depend on a level of focus that demands planning and preparation. See the rise of collective card games. Easy to sell, package, and play. No prep time needed and addictive (never liked them myself, but alot of others sure did). Also, faddish and ultimately people put them down as quickly as they picked them up.

Perhaps something in the mass media? Comic books have clawed their way back to the spotlight with movies based, but few pen & paper games translate well to cinema (see the D&D movie) and even a moderate level of collateral interest (see LOTR) the effect on the demographic may instead spark an interest in selling toys or video games, not pen & paper books.

I agree with Jason. If the big box stores had more GAMES in the shelves besides WotC products, people might actually flip through the pages and buy them. The problem is the price, but with video games hovering at around the $60 price point, perhaps getting them to buy a $40 book isn't as much of an issue as getting them to read it, convince their friends its worth spending a few hours with, and fitting it into their schedules.

Or not.

To be truthful, I think the future are the online MMORPG who have effectively moved into the heroic fantasy genre, science fiction, superheroes, etc.

What about college-aged kids? I think BRP has a certain aspect of maturity that kids of today's culture may not appreciate as much (I realize this is a broad generalization...). Would getting in contact with organized gaming groups in larger universities be a method of getting people to try out the system?

Perhaps Chaosium could create some quickstart rules with an introductory scenario (but what genre?) and pre-gen characters, like they have with CoC, to be run at conventions?

[frogspawner]

Perhaps Chaosium could create some quickstart rules with an introductory scenarion (but what genre?) and pre-gen characters, like they have with CoC, to be run at conventions?

It's a good idea. From what's been said on this forum (or was it Mr. Durall's blog?) there's one already submitted...

[Atgxtg]

It's a good idea. From what's been said on this forum (or was it Mr. Durall's blog?) there's one already submitted...

I think Jason said he was working on a Quickstart, but was waiting for BRP to be finished/released first (makes sense to me.-you definitely want to be certain about the rules so that the Quickstart is up to date with the published rules).

I think the key to attracting new fans, young or otherwise, is to figure out what are BRP's attractions and try to draw attention to them. Basically, what makes BRP a good choice for someone to pick up rather than, say D&D 4th edtion. (Yeah, we "know" that BRP is a better, simpler, and less expensive system, but new players don't "know" that.)

One problem BPR has is that it is sort of has to torch passed to it from several similar but different Chaosium games. What might be appealing to some players could very well alienate others. The controversy over hit locations and major wounds is one example.

Even the game's various optional rules can be both a merit and a detriment. Some people like to have lots of options and choices so they can fine tune the game to match their style of play. Others would rather have fewer options but a more streamlined and consistent rule system.

Personally, I think one advantage that BRP might have is in price, especially in product received for the money spent. A copy of BRP costs less than a copy of the new D&D rules. BRP products are probably going to be larger and have more content than a typical "module". That's a bit plus when trying to sell a product to people with limited income (vi9rtually all students, college level or otherwise).

A ad or two showing what it costs to get a set of the rules, a campaign setting, and an adventure in BRP vs. D&D might be very helpful.

I also think BRP really needs a magazine, either official or a fanzine that fans can go to for new adventures, game aids, errata (a Q&A column with Jason's answers to some of the questions that have been asked would be nice). If someone put together a PDF at regular intervals, it would help a lot. The more stuff out there, especially free stuff, the greater the chance of snaring new fans.

[FunGuyFromYuggoth]

There's potential at the college level, sure, but those are adults (or near enough) and with rising college costs, they are probably working even more than the high school kids. Plus, I don't know about you, but I don't think pen & paper can compete with discovering the joys of coupling and partying and, oh yes, studying. The gaming group at my university were not good and hopefully they're not representative of what college organized gaming is like and my impression is that they didn't do any better job of keeping gaming alive in the U.S. than the rest of us.

One idea, though, is to get these games to college books stores and to have the product placed prominently alongside other books. With the death of the FLGS, the college bookstore may be one of the few bricks and mortar outlets for gamers that hasn't been fully exploited by gaming companies.

[mrk]

One problem BPR has is that it is sort of has to torch passed to it from several similar but different Chaosium games. What might be appealing to some players could very well alienate others. The controversy over hit locations and major wounds is one example.

.

And that's what's great about the rules. If you take out hit locations and major wounds, the core of the combat system is intact and still very much enjoyable to use. Severed body parts and gushing blood are all dandy and nice, but it's nothing more then then icing on the cake--tasy as it may be

[Rurik]

And that's what's great about the rules. If you take out hit locations and major wounds, the core of the combat system is intact and still very much enjoyable to use. Severed body parts and gushing blood are all dandy and nice, but it's nothing more then then icing on the cake--tasy as it may be

Now I am a big fan of severed body parts and gushing blood - but I must say I 've never actually tasted the severed parts or blood. You are kind of scaring me.

[Dredj]

The gaming group at my university were not good and hopefully they're not representative of what college organized gaming is like and my impression is that they didn't do any better job of keeping gaming alive in the U.S. than the rest of us.

.

The gaming group at one of the universities I attended had all the women around them. They were the only people who had something going on besides hitting on--or trying to impress--women. I think there's a promo opportunity that most--if any--game companies are not picking up on.

Oh yeah, some of those women would actually join in the role playing.