Please show some respect Mr monroe

[Ghost Sword]

Ben Monroe, you wrote this in answer to other posts about the BRP renaissance on RPG.Net "As far as I know, there's no animosity between Chaosium and Mongoose. Indeed Chaosium seemed all too happy to unload the albatross which is Moorcock onto Mongoose."

Please show some respect for Michael Moorcock, Mr Monroe. He isn't an albatross, to Chaosium. In fact if he hadn't agreed to let Chaosium use his work as the basis for a game, then there would be no Magic world, since it started out as Elric RPG, and you wouldn't have had a job working on that project. If anything Chaosium have been parasitic to Moorcock, gaining from Moorcock's talent at his expense. So please show some respect to Michael Moorcock, instead of simply being a sycophant for Chaosium.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Ghost Sword

[SDLeary]

Ben Monroe, you wrote this in answer to other posts about the BRP renaissance on RPG.Net "As far as I know, there's no animosity between Chaosium and Mongoose. Indeed Chaosium seemed all too happy to unload the albatross which is Moorcock onto Mongoose."

Please show some respect for Michael Moorcock, Mr Monroe. He isn't an albatross, to Chaosium. In fact if he hadn't agreed to let Chaosium use his work as the basis for a game, then there would be no Magic world, since it started out as Elric RPG, and you wouldn't have had a job working on that project. If anything Chaosium have been parasitic to Moorcock, gaining from Moorcock's talent at his expense. So please show some respect to Michael Moorcock, instead of simply being a sycophant for Chaosium.

The Moorcock line that Chaosium was producing... Stormbringer, the supplements, Hawkmoon, etc., was not a line that was selling well enough for the effort being expended. In many companies in the world, this kind of product is known as a Financial Albatross.

Now the fact that this sentiment of your appears not only here, but RPGnet, and the fact that you seem to be targeting someone with vitrol, calling someone a sycophant for a company, someone who has worked for other companies (he is an independent writer) suggests to me that you might have another axe to grind.

If you are calling for civility, then please display it yourself.

Thank You

SDLeary

Edited April 5, 2013 by SDLeary

[smiorgan]

Dear Ghost Sword,

Many people here like a lot the Eternal Champion saga and have a deep respect for Mr. Moorcock as a person. I'm sure Ben Monroe is among them.

Having said that I dare to observe that registering in a forum for the sole purpose of starting what is technically called a "cross-forum drama" is generally frowned upon. Doing so on the basis of a single passing remark in an already old thread in the other forum borders the uncanny.

I do not want to enter into the old dispute between Mr. Moorcock and Chaosium. I am not privy to the facts and I cannot say whether Chaosium was indeed in breach of their contractual obligations to Mr. Moorcock. I believe that this dispute was settled when Mongoose acquired the rights to publish Eternal Champion rpgs. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

What I do know, however, is that Magic World has absolutely nothing to do with Mr. Moorcock's intellectual properties and ideas. It draws simply from the game mechanics that were developed by Chaosium writers for earlier Chaosium games including Stormbringer but also RuneQuest and applies them to a generic fantasy setting that bears no resemblance whatsoever to the Eternal Champion saga.

MW shares with Stormbringer aspects of the combat system, the skill system, the resistance table, levels of success, experiece rolls etc. Game rules stuff! Not the Young Kingdoms, the Multiverse, the Lords of Chaos, or whatever setting idea might be specific to Moorcock.

Really, this indignation is uncalled for!

Take care,

Smiorgan

Edited April 4, 2013 by smiorgan

[Chaot]

Ben Monroe, you wrote this in answer to other posts about the BRP renaissance on RPG.Net

So you're stirring up shit in two separate forums, both of which you only have one post?

Pardon my french, Mr. Ghost Sword, but go f0ck yourself.

Edit: Today I learn the board bleeps out curses.

[rust]

So please show some respect to Michael Moorcock ...

A good way to show such respect would be not to meddle in Michael Moorcock's

affairs and not to behave as if one had been given the authority to speak in his

name. Michael Moorcock is perfectly able to speak for himself whenever he consi-

ders this necessary, he certainly does not need or want any patronizing support

from any self appointed forum vigilantes among his fans.

[filbanto]

I like beer. Last night I had a coffee stout, a nut brown ale and a porter while playing Warhammer FRP with my friends. The stout and the ale were pretty good, but the porter was rather disappointing - kind of a bad aftertaste if you know what I mean.

You may well ask: "Filbanto, what does this have to do with the Magic World forum?"

A fair question and quite honestly I'd have to reply "Not a heck of a lot."

But then again, the original poster's message doesn't have a heck of a lot to do with Magic World either so I figured It'd be cool to add my own nonsensical ramblings.

[BMonroe]

Ben Monroe, you wrote this in answer to other posts about the BRP renaissance on RPG.Net "As far as I know, there's no animosity between Chaosium and Mongoose. Indeed Chaosium seemed all too happy to unload the albatross which is Moorcock onto Mongoose."

Wow. You registered for an account on this forum to call me out for a comment I made on another forum almost two years ago? Okay...

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?571828-The-BRP-Renaissance&p=13807034#post13807034

Please show some respect for Michael Moorcock, Mr Monroe. He isn't an albatross, to Chaosium. In fact if he hadn't agreed to let Chaosium use his work as the basis for a game, then there would be no Magic world, since it started out as Elric RPG, and you wouldn't have had a job working on that project. If anything Chaosium have been parasitic to Moorcock, gaining from Moorcock's talent at his expense. So please show some respect to Michael Moorcock, instead of simply being a sycophant for Chaosium.

First off, let me say that I'm a fan of moorcock's writing. Indeed, over the last few months, I've gone back and reread the entire Eternal Champion oeuvre. That being said, I am not a fan of the way Mike has consistently bashed Chaosium over the last few years, nor the way he's consistently sicced his fans on Chaosium.

Without going into details of his contract with Chaosium (which I have read, have you?), I will address my point about the Moorcock IP being an "albatross". Simply, it took just as much time, effort, and resources to put out a Stormbringer supplement as it did a Cthulhu one. And the Stormbringer books sold in significantly less quantities. Sadly, the fans of the game were also increasingly vocal and critical of the work. Attempts to make them happy resulted in more name-calling, factless accusations, and grousing. My understanding was that when Chaosium no longer had anyone interested in helping the line, it became easier for them to sign it over to Mongoose. I have no idea what that deal might have entailed, nor how happy Mongoose is with their relationship with Moorcock.

As far as my "not having a job" if it weren't for Moorcock allowing Chaosium to create the game that was he basis for MW... I don't really know what to say about that.

When I started working on MW, we were discussing doing a fantasy supplement to BRP. Around this time, I found out just how ill Lynn Willis had become (the author and editor of Elric! and most of the Stormbringer line). At that point, and after talking with Chaosium, we decided to use Elric as the basis for a complete fantasy game, to be released as a tribute to Lynn, and all his work over the years.

Lynn had been a mentor to me in the publishing field for many years, and I wanted to do something to honor him. Magic World was the result. I also decided to decline any sort of monetary compensation for the book, in order to make sure it got out. For me, it was truly a labor of love.

Edited April 4, 2013 by zomben

[1000buffalo]

Doesn't Moorcock sing / lead a rock band? He's perfectly capable of defending himself from Chaosium, White Gold style.

[fmitchell]

Simply, it took just as much time, effort, and resources to put out a Stormbringer supplement as it did a Cthulhu one. And the Stormbringer books sold in significantly less quantities.

Somewhat off topic (if there is a topic), but I don't see why companies even bother with licensing properties. The temporary boost in sales doesn't seem worth the cost of:

• paying licensing fees,
  
• waiting for the license-holder to approve your work (witness Cubicle 7 and the BBC),
  
• dealing with "true fans" who will tear your work apart,
  
• risking any future profits if the license-holder decides to pull the license.
  

The only two motivations I can see are a) being REQUIRED to license someone else's work because yours is uncannily similar, and loving a work so much that you HAVE to play in their universe. A game set in the universe next door (i.e. a popular work with the serial numbers filed off) seems far safer and more secure. D&D and its imitators have elves, dwarves, and orcs but (after the hobbit and ent mistake) don't owe the Tolkien estate (or WotC) a dime.

[rleduc]

I like beer. Last night I had a coffee stout, a nut brown ale and a porter while playing Warhammer FRP with my friends. The stout and the ale were pretty good, but the porter was rather disappointing - kind of a bad aftertaste if you know what I mean.

You may well ask: "Filbanto, what does this have to do with the Magic World forum?"

A fair question and quite honestly I'd have to reply "Not a heck of a lot."

But then again, the original poster's message doesn't have a heck of a lot to do with Magic World either so I figured It'd be cool to add my own nonsensical ramblings.

And I miss gaming in Madison! I bet I would have liked ale...

[Al.]

I like beer. Last night I had a coffee stout,

I like coffee and I do not mind stout but combining the two sounds revolting. I refuse to try it. If you do not agree with me then you are not a true beer drinker and are disrespecting beer. You are no better than those weirdos who like chocolate orange.

Must go the rag and bone man is coming with his dead horse and it needs a flogging.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

You are no better than those weirdos who like chocolate orange.

Mmmm ... now I fancy a Terry's - you fiend, I'm at least 6,000 miles away from the nearest Terry's Chocolate Orange!

It's not Terry's, it's mine.

[MrJealousy]

It's not Terry's, it's mine.

Oh, no! I think you'll find its mine actually, munchmunch. Er wait... actually, my girlfriend says it's hers, drat! It may as well be 6000 miles away now

[filbanto]

I like coffee and I do not mind stout but combining the two sounds revolting. I refuse to try it. If you do not agree with me then you are not a true beer drinker and are disrespecting beer. You are no better than those weirdos who like chocolate orange.

New Glarus Brewing

[filbanto]

And I miss gaming in Madison! I bet I would have liked ale...

Rich - you're welcome to game with us anytime. Drop a PM, we'll figure out the technology. Only problem is the time it will take you to get to my frig for a beer:)

[rust]

Rich - you're welcome to game with us anytime. Drop a PM, we'll figure out the technology. Only problem is the time it will take you to get to my frig for a beer:)

What you two need is the Create Gate spell, which can be found in the Book of Eibon at

the Miskatonic University's library. Learning and using it might be slightly detrimental for

your mental health, but a good beer is always worth a little sacrifice ...

[filbanto]

What you two need is the Create Gate spell, which can be found in the Book of Eibon...

Great idea - beer ought to stay plenty cold on Saturn!

[Al.]

Learning and using it might be slightly detrimental for

your mental health, but a good beer is always worth a little sacrifice ...

Good beer in good company restores lost SAN

[Natural Twenty Games]

I like beer (ale or lager although in the winter I prefer an ale), chocolate and oranges plus I'm only an hour and a-half from Madison:)

[filbanto]

I like beer (ale or lager although in the winter I prefer an ale), chocolate and oranges plus I'm only an hour and a-half from Madison:)

Well if it's not too far of a haul we game Wednesday at 7pm. Drop me a PM and we'll work something out - though you may want to PM rdeluc first - he used to game with us and we drove him to Indiana!

[1000buffalo]

You people have taken this too far, with your beer and casual mention of the Book of Eibon, oranges, and sweet, sweet stout beer, thank you very much.

To the point of the subject line of the thread: Mr. Monroe shall be playing in my upcoming Magic World game (this very weekend, it is rumored), and I shall teach him the meaning of the word respect.

My players and I are all longtime fans of Michael Moorcock's works, I should add.

[BMonroe]

You people have taken this too far, with your beer and casual mention of the Book of Eibon, oranges, and sweet, sweet stout beer, thank you very much.

To the point of the subject line of the thread: Mr. Monroe shall be playing in my upcoming Magic World game (this very weekend, it is rumored), and I shall teach him the meaning of the word respect.

My players and I are all longtime fans of Michael Moorcock's works, I should add.

Yeah, good luck with that. As editor of the game, I reserve the right to make any changes to the rules I want, in the name of "balance".

[Mankcam]

To Ghost Sword,

I'm starting to get tired of seeing this thread's title. I think its a tad inflammatory, and not much more I can add other than I admire both Moorcock's work AND Ben's work with Chaosium, and I think Magic World is a step in the right direction, particularly with having a new fantasy setting. There are heaps of Young Kingdoms stuff out there with the original Chaosium lines and the Mongoose lines if anyone wants to chase down pdfs on them. Time for a change I think, and I don't see how this is disrespecting the previous lines or Michael Moorcock's body of work at all.

To 1000buffalo:

Before this thread croaks it, you need to post an update of your next session, sounds like alot of fun heh heh

[BMonroe]

I doubt Ghost Sword's got the cajones to come back. It's clearly some kind of pitiful "fire and forget" insult he tried to make at my expense. At least when I 'disrespected' Moorcock, I had the balls to stick around and take my just punishment...

I thought about just deleting the thread outright, but didn't want to be disrespectful to Mr. Sword.

[rust]

I doubt Ghost Sword's got the cajones to come back.

Hardly, his was a typical drive by posting.