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No idea, but in Stormbringer it was "critical a parry and get a free attack back".

Now this makes little sense for a GreatSword, but Elric did it..

If you wanted to make it a little more sensible you could say

"If a light or medium one handed weapon parries another critically, then you get a free attack back"

You might also want to allow it for critical shield parries.

There you go, no need to open the BGB!

BTW I *love this rule*

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No idea, but in Stormbringer it was "critical a parry and get a free attack back".

Now this makes little sense for a GreatSword, but Elric did it..

If you wanted to make it a little more sensible you could say

"If a light or medium one handed weapon parries another critically, then you get a free attack back"

You might also want to allow it for critical shield parries.

There you go, no need to open the BGB!

BTW I *love this rule*

Or you can simplify things even more just by ruling that if a player wants to make a riposte just after his parry, he must declare it before parrying; then, the parry becomes difficult but allows a free difficult attack. Rather than a parry at 100% of his skill, the player has a parry at 50% of his skill and a free attack at 50% of his skill (which still makes 100% of his skill).

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The riposte rule didn't make it in, but was intended to. See this thread: http://basicroleplaying.com/basic-roleplaying/basic-roleplaying-chaosium-roleplaying-system-1519/

Cheers,

Nick

Thank you very much for that link!

The problem of this rule, though, is that it requires a very high level of skill.

I don't like very much these kinds of prerequisites. An expert with 75%, a Professional with 60% or even a good amateur with 40% should be able to try a riposte. To try, but not necessarily to succeed, of course. They would have lower chance of succeeding.

Every character should be able to try what is easy to understand. The difference must be in the chance of succeeding, not an all or nothing affair.

When there is a skill level prerequisite, like 90%, a question immediately occurs: why 90% and not 89%? Does the character suddenly (and magically) gain a new power when he reaches 90%?

Edited by Gollum
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Replace the skill prerequisite with "You can riposte on a special parry" and there you go...

Yes. Another good rule! Very easy to use...

What I prefer, though, is letting my player tell what they want to try and roll the dice only after this decision (rather than letting the dice results say what they can or cannot try).

I find that more close to what we feel in reality. In our life, we want to do something, we try to do it, and, then, we succeed or fail. *

Which may explain my house rule above. ;-)

This is precisely what is amazing with BRP. There are always several possibilities to handle a situation. The GM and the players can choose the one they prefer!

____

* I still have to admit that, in reality, the situations sometimes give you some opportunities... So, it is more a matter of preference than a matter of realism.

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Thank you very much for that link!

The problem of this rule, though, is that it requires a very high level of skill.

I don't like very much these kinds of prerequisites. An expert with 75%, a Professional with 60% or even a good amateur with 40% should be able to try a riposte. To try, but not necessarily to succeed, of course. They would have lower chance of succeeding.

Every character should be able to try what is easy to understand. The difference must be in the chance of succeeding, not an all or nothing affair.

When there is a skill level prerequisite, like 90%, a question immediately occurs: why 90% and not 89%? Does the character suddenly (and magically) gain a new power when he reaches 90%?

Just want to chime in on a few things.

90% was chosen as the point at which one becomes a master at a skill - in this case, master at a weapon. In Stormbringer 1 - 4, to riposte, one had to be a master in both the separate attack and parry skills (specifically, over 90% in each) AND score a critical parry. While this cut down on the frequency at which ripostes occurred, you had no limit to the number of ripostes possible (though, your parry and riposte dropped 30% and 20% respectively each time per round, you always had at least a 1% chance).

Now, as to why one had/has to be a master (from a design perspective) - as mentioned elsewhere, combat rounds are more than just swing and wait affairs, they represent constant maneuvering, posturing, thrusts, parries, advances, retreats, etc. The actual roll represents an opportunity to strike based on all of the maneuvering - a "here is your opening, let's see what you can do with it". So, in essence, it represents the ability of a combatant, regardless of skill level, to be able to create an opening, sometimes by use of parrying away an opponent, and getting a riposte type opportunity. The actual riposte maneuver, however, is more than that - it is the ability of a master to parry such an attack, and turn the opponent's weapon in such a way as to create a new opportunity, one that is beyond the normal opportunity that occurs during a combat round. And, again, a master can do this multiple times per round, and when facing multiple opponents.

I do like Jason's change of adding a single DEX rank penalty in addition to the uniform 30% drop per attempt, to reflect that even a master can be brought down by a mob of attackers.

Ian

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Just want to chime in on a few things.

90% was chosen as the point at which one becomes a master at a skill - in this case, master at a weapon. In Stormbringer 1 - 4, to riposte, one had to be a master in both the separate attack and parry skills (specifically, over 90% in each) AND score a critical parry. While this cut down on the frequency at which ripostes occurred, you had no limit to the number of ripostes possible (though, your parry and riposte dropped 30% and 20% respectively each time per round, you always had at least a 1% chance).

Now, as to why one had/has to be a master (from a design perspective) - as mentioned elsewhere, combat rounds are more than just swing and wait affairs, they represent constant maneuvering, posturing, thrusts, parries, advances, retreats, etc. The actual roll represents an opportunity to strike based on all of the maneuvering - a "here is your opening, let's see what you can do with it". So, in essence, it represents the ability of a combatant, regardless of skill level, to be able to create an opening, sometimes by use of parrying away an opponent, and getting a riposte type opportunity. The actual riposte maneuver, however, is more than that - it is the ability of a master to parry such an attack, and turn the opponent's weapon in such a way as to create a new opportunity, one that is beyond the normal opportunity that occurs during a combat round. And, again, a master can do this multiple times per round, and when facing multiple opponents.

I do like Jason's change of adding a single DEX rank penalty in addition to the uniform 30% drop per attempt, to reflect that even a master can be brought down by a mob of attackers.

Ian

Yes. This is exactly why I wrote "I still have to admit that, in reality, the situations sometimes give you some opportunities... So, it is more a matter of preference than a matter of realism. " in the previous post.

Thank you for this very clear explanation.

Edited by Gollum
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  • 1 month later...

If you like ripostes, think they should be more accessible to the less-skilled masses and don't mind a bit of extra dice rolling:

Allow a 'minor' riposte on a successful parry vs a failed attack roll. (The attacker has left an opening which the defender may exploit)

The riposter needs to roll less than the score he rolled to parry. He has to use the parrying shield or weapon.

The riposte can be dodged, or parried by the attacker's off-hand weapon only.

Performing a minor riposte gives the riposter a 10% additional penalty to Parry rolls for the rest of the round.

The extra dice rolling comes because you roll Parry dice even if an attack misses.

Normal ripostes as described in the rules and above in this thread are unaffected by the addition of minor ripostes.

(I got this idea from Dave Morris' free Tirikélu Tékumel game.)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Don't worry, posts don't die here QB. They lie in slumber, waiting to be reawakened and wreak havoc on the poor fragile minds of BRP players everywhere.

I was actually thinking of stealing your minor parry rules there. I think though I'm going to drop the extra die rolls and expand the Riposte rules to include both Special Parry and Successful Parry versus Failed Attack. I'm interested to see what sort of effect it would have.

70/420

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  • 1 month later...

What I prefer, though, is letting my player tell what they want to try and roll the dice only after this decision (rather than letting the dice results say what they can or cannot try).

I find that more close to what we feel in reality. In our life, we want to do something, we try to do it, and, then, we succeed or fail. *

Which may explain my house rule above. ;-)

This is precisely what is amazing with BRP. There are always several possibilities to handle a situation. The GM and the players can choose the one they prefer!

____

* I still have to admit that, in reality, the situations sometimes give you some opportunities... So, it is more a matter of preference than a matter of realism.

How about this:

Critical parry - get a riposte as an Easy action.

Your parry was just exactly like your swordmaster liked to use to demonstrate parry/riposte, you set up your riposte perfectly!

Special/"Impale" parry - get a riposte as a normal action.

Yeah, you parried well and you get your riposte, but it's nothing special.

Successful parry - get a riposte as a Difficult action.

You parried, but just barely -- any worse, and the attack would have connected -- and you aren't set up well for the riposte. You can try for it, but the setup is far from ideal...

Makes it POSSIBLE for anyone to riposte, but the experts will get better opportunities, more often (and of course their ripostes will be more dangerous to whoever attacked them).

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  • 6 months later...

In practice, I must admit I haven't used my 'minor parry' rule (see above in this thread) as much as I thought I would. It's been too much hassle. I prefer even more simplicity. Here's how I do it, and this does work fine:

Any time you get a critical parry you can riposte with a secondary weapon or a shield (you can even throw a punch with your off-hand if you are feeling lucky). The riposte can be dodged or parried with the attacker's off-hand weapon or shield only.

If you don't have a secondary weapon (or fist) or shield, or you are using a two handed weapon, bad luck.

And here's what I'd like to do:

A critical parry vs. a failed (ie. missed) attack allows a riposte which can't be dodged or parried.

A normally successful parry vs. a failed attack has no special effect, but doesn't count for the cumulative penalty for successive dodges/parries.

In short: a critical parry gives you a riposte with your off-hand.

Edited by Questbird
clarity
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How about this:

Critical parry - get a riposte as an Easy action.

Your parry was just exactly like your swordmaster liked to use to demonstrate parry/riposte, you set up your riposte perfectly!

Special/"Impale" parry - get a riposte as a normal action.

Yeah, you parried well and you get your riposte, but it's nothing special.

Successful parry - get a riposte as a Difficult action.

You parried, but just barely -- any worse, and the attack would have connected -- and you aren't set up well for the riposte. You can try for it, but the setup is far from ideal...

Makes it POSSIBLE for anyone to riposte, but the experts will get better opportunities, more often (and of course their ripostes will be more dangerous to whoever attacked them).

The problem here, in my humble opinion, is that a successful parry gives more than what it is supposed to give: it allows the character to parry and (bonus with no justification) to have a chance to riposte (which means one more attack freely).

But since the idea still sounds very good, I would just modify it a bit, like this:

  • Critical parry - get a riposte as a normal but free action.
  • Special/"Impale" parry - get a riposte as a hard (but still free) action.
  • Successful parry - get no riposte. You parried well and that is already something good.

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In practice, I must admit I haven't used my 'minor parry' rule (see above in this thread) as much as I thought I would. It's been too much hassle. I prefer even more simplicity. Here's how I do it, and this does work fine:

Any time you get a critical parry you can riposte with a secondary weapon or a shield (you can even throw a punch with your off-hand if you are feeling lucky). The riposte can be dodged or parried with the attacker's off-hand weapon or shield only.

If you don't have a secondary weapon (or fist) or shield, or you are using a two handed weapon, bad luck.

And here's what I'd like to do:

A critical parry vs. a failed (ie. missed) attack allows a riposte which can't be dodged or parried.

A normally successful parry vs. a failed attack has no special effect, but doesn't count for the cumulative penalty for successive dodges/parries.

In short: a critical parry gives you a riposte with your off-hand.

Your repost ruling is essentially the same as the Magic World repost on page 63. So it must work, I think I'll start using in my OQ2 games.

Miles

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Yes, except I don't limit it to once per round, and I also allow it vs. a failed attack roll.

I've been thinking of allowing ripostes to be a possible special success. So someone who either knows how to riposte (see below) or has a weapon that has the riposte ability( also see below) could do a riposte as a special success on a parry.

Now by "knowing how" I was thinking that for each 20% of skill a character could learn one special maneuver (impale, trip, riposte, sidestep. etc.) with a weapon and could choose which one to do on a special success. Most specials would be for attacks, but some, such as riposte or sidestep, would be used with defense.

What I meant about weapons having abilities is similar to how different types of weapons have different specials now. We could just expand it a bit so that each weapon could have a few options on it's specials.

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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I allow ripostes with two-handed weapons in my games. You have to be at mastery level to even have it available as an option, so the chances are good that you're going to totally school someone in combat, anyway. I figured, why not do it with style? ;)

BCNU,

Louis

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