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QueenJadisOfCharn

Is Cacodemon a Remnant of the Devil or his Army?

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So, there is a document on Moondesign which says,

Cacodemon is a remnant of the army of Wakboth, the Devil. When their master was crushed under the Spike during the War of the Gods Cacodemon and other demons remained alive and embodied. They traveled widely, sowing disorder and trouble wherever they went, proving to be useful additions to the forces of Chaos.

And elsewhere I read, in anothet place at Moondesign,

A cacodemon is a demonic remnant of the Devil, left over when Wakboth was smashed by the Block, a massive slab of truestone, in Prax. These beings more resemble huge monsters than demigods

Are either, neither or both of these canon explanations? My main reason for asking is because I want to give the Devil proper his own cult, and I figured that a cult based on a piece of Wakboth would be a good template.

Also, is there a canon description of the Devil? I've seen two pieces of art, both good, but very different. In each the Devil has multiple arms, in Mike Perry's version it's a sort of Faustian devil with some AD&D demon on top. In the other one (whose origin I do not know, but it's a full color modern piece) he kinda looks like a buff lion version of a displacer beast (which is really badass IMO).

Edited by QueenJadisOfCharn

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It's Glorantha. Cacodaemon is both a fragment of the Devil and a remnant of his army; the Devil looks like a Faustian devil and a displacer beast.

Now I'm imagining Faust summoning Mephistophales, getting Displacer Beast Wakboth and jumping out of his window screaming.

And the ambiguity is acceptable, I'm just wondering how much of it has the Stafford stamp.

In my own homebrew setting I want to make a deal of people conflating Wakboth and Morgoth, to the annoyance of their cults. I want to nail down what a hybrid would look like - a displacer beast in black plate armor? They were both jumped by a whacko spider biatch.

Edited by QueenJadisOfCharn

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Are either, neither or both of these canon explanations?

Cacodemon emerged when the Devil was crushed under the Block, as far as I know. However, Wakboth's armies carried on for a long time afterwards and Cacodemon would have been at the head of those armies, being a remnant of Wakboth. The Hand of Chaos in another aspect, which exists in Prax/Wastes and Snakepipe Hollow. The Bones and Wakboth's Eye are others, as well as the Gas and Bullsnitch. Wakboth was pretty well mashed when a mountain fell on him.

My main reason for asking is because I want to give the Devil proper his own cult, and I figured that a cult based on a piece of Wakboth would be a good template.

His cult probably wouldn't be like Cacodemon's, though, in the same way as Orlanth's cult is not like Barntar's or Yelm's cult is not like Yelmalio's. Sure there would be similarities and maybe some shared spells, especially if you use Associate Cults.

He would probably have various Command (Chaos Creature) spells, including Command Ogre and Command Bullsnitch. He would have Thed, Mallia, Cacodemon and Primal Chaos as Associate Cults. His Priests/Lords would be called Devils (Fred, a Devil of Wakboth). I'm not sure what Spirit Magic/Common Magic he would grant.

Also, is there a canon description of the Devil? I've seen two pieces of art, both good, but very different. In each the Devil has multiple arms, in Mike Perry's version it's a sort of Faustian devil with some AD&D demon on top. In the other one (whose origin I do not know, but it's a full color modern piece) he kinda looks like a buff lion version of a displacer beast (which is really badass IMO).

I don't think the Devil has been physically described.

As the son of Ragnaglar and Thed, it makes sense for him to be a broo, but that is just boring.

I see him as an angelic figure, almost like a broo-wind child. Very buff, highly charismatic, clawed hands and feet, separate arms and wings, goat's head, or perhaps a head that is a goat or a man depending on who is looking.

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Looking back at the original source to Wakboth - Nomad Gods (1977) by Greg Stafford, it says:

After the Devil was pinned to the Earth by the Rock his influence still permeated the region with its vile effects. Waha the Butcher sought to diffuse this threat, and so dug the Good Canal, diverting all of a river from its path. He commanded the river and its creatures to devour the Devil and take it away to the sea. It did, but by eroding the Devil the river became so polluted that the river was shamed and tried to hide by burying into the Earth. The Earth rejected it, forcing it to the surface where possible. These are the present locations of numerous Marshes. The ugly creatures which inhabited those filthy places are the half-digested portions of the river. The forces of chaos have overwhelmed their captors to varying degrees and so continued their miserable and squalid existence at the expense of the whole world.

There are six Parts of the Devil in the Nomad Gods game:

1 The Devil's Hand

2 Cacodemon

3 Dragonsnails

4 Bullsitch

5 Gorp

6 Gas

Cacodemon

This entity seems to contain some of the intelligence of the Devil, for it functions quite like a normal, physically oriented Demon of the world. It is not magical, being more like a monster than a spirit.

So putting that together, Cacodemon is an eroded part of the devil that has half digested the river that was sent to wash it away. In the game cacodemon is limited to appearing at the marshes, but can then be allied and then act as a normal unit.

The next piece of info came in 1981 in Griffin Mountain in the Cacodemon cult (Cults by Sandy Petersen and Steve Perrin):

MYTHOS AND HISTORY

Cacodemon is a demonic remnant of the Devil, remaining alive and embodied when his master died under the Spike during the War of the Gods. Cacodemon himself performed no deeds of great note during the War of the Gods. He did travel widely, sowing disorder and trouble wherever he went.

SINCE TIME BEGAN

Since time began Cacodemon has roamed the world destroying whatever he fmds. He is fond of lurking in the few marshes and waterways. He occasionally appears to aid or menace his worshippers when they call upon him.

it also tells of Cacodemons links with ogres:

The ogre race claims it originated during the Great Darkness when

a band of people, perhaps human, chose his disorderly way as the guide to their survival. Since then, all ogres have had connections with the demon.

One of the main stories of the Wastelands in the Great Darkness is of how groups of survivors found powers to help them survive. Ogres were probably once a group of human survivors of Genert's Garden that were helped to survive by following Cacodemon, but became corrupted by the act. The Devil's Army and Cacodemon's followers are synonymous.

Cacodemon is a remnant of the Devil and had his own army of ogres.

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As for a description of the Devil - there will be a picture by Mike Perry in the Guide. It is the ritual of the Net with the Devil confronting Arachne Solara. I can describe him -

The Devil has a boar like head with two forward pointing horns coming out of his forehead with what look like metal tips. He had sharp fanged teeth and a long forked tongue. His ears are longish downward pointing and pig like. His snout is short and wrinkled. He has a hairy ruff around his neck. His four muscled arms end in long claws and he has some kind of bands around his wrists. He has long feathered wings jutting from his shoulders like an angel, they taper off and are longer than his height. The tops of the wings each have a claw like spike. He has a long segmented scorpion tail with a huge barb. His two legs end in eagle like claws with long talons. On one ankle he has a band like his wrists.

The picture is black and white,

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