Starvation, Thirst and Endurance

[Mithras]

Hello !

I'm toying with the idea of a short exploration adventure 30s/Victorian for my sons, based on a grid or hex map, using BRP (which I have not got yet, currently using 5th edition CoC). I want it to be a test of survival as much as combat skills, with crossing rivers, scaling cliffs, exploring caves and ruined temples on a par with hacking through elephant grass or rattan, or negotiating hip-deep swamps and getting some sleep amidst clouds of biting insects at night.

Does anyone have a few simple hunger/thirst/endurance rules to hand I can use? I'm leery of using RQ3 Fatigue, though I could do so - does it extend to food and cross-country travel? I can't remember?

[Mithras]

Actually, looking at RQ3, Fatigue might well do. Average 22 Fatigue Points. Lets say 10-20 ENC of equipment, reducing the explorer to around 6-8 Fatigue.

-1 Fatigue per hour of marching

maybe more in jungle, swamp etc. -2, -3 in tough areas

-2 Fatigue per round of climbing

back to full Fatigue from zero in around 10 minutes.

Surely negative Fatigue will take longer. I would imagine these explorers would soon enter negative Fatigue during the day. Regained only through sleep? The longer the full stretch of sleep, the more beneficial?

1 hour +2

2 hour +4

3 hour +8

4 hour +12

5 hour +18

6 hour +24

7 hour +30

8 hour +36

Not sure how water and rations will fit into this.

No. ON balance, I think it is more suited to round by round tracking of exhaustion, not long treks across the wilderness.

[Trifletraxor]

The RQ3 fatigue rules takes too much book-keeping for my taste. :ohwell:

SGL.

[Mithras]

I have in front of me Gamelords supplements for Classic Traveller; The Desert Environment and The Mountain Environment. Both have fantastically well designed rules for this sort of thing. Maybe I could convert and streamline them, they are far more indepth that I need, but saying that hold all the data for me to make my own decisions and create a decent set of BRP rules.

UNless there's some out there in a book I haven't got?!

[Mithras]

ha ha! I see MRQ has some rules on starvation etc, pg 87. I will peruse....

[badcat]

Believe it or not 'Space 1889' actually has some pretty good rules material for that sort of thing. I don't know how difficult it would be to 'translate' to a BRP style game, but it might be worth checking out.

[frogspawner]

BRP0 has a half-page 'Spot Rule' for "Cold, Exposure, Hunger, and Thirst". Heat/cold increase FP loss rate; similarly after 1 or 2 days without water/food. After CON/2 days, any physical action requires a Stamina roll to avoid 1hp damage. After CON days all actions are Difficult and wounds heal at half rate. Each day on -ve FP lose d6hp. Maybe even lose SIZ! But at least you can stay alive for a day on 0hp. :confused:

If that's not detailed enough for your purposes, it might be good to see what 'expanded Spot' (Patch?) Rule you do come up with.

[Mithras]

I knew there would be something in Edition Zero!! And that sounds about right . I'm currently reading a book called The Jungle is Neutral, the biog of a British soldier 'staying behind' the Japanese invasion of Malaya. Some of the men trecked for 12 days through the jungle, it was a shock to them, and almost killed them. THeir rations were destroyed by daily rainstorms, they were lost, without landmarks, the heat drained their energy, thorns, leeches, night-time insects and slogging with machetes through almost impenetrable jungle brought them to an almost total stop. Drenched, freezing at night, so cold with shivers they could not sleep. Just 12 days. One man had to take his belt in 8 notches.

All 3 men were unrecognisable after those 2 weeks.

I want rules for that!!!! I'm sure the BRP rules will suffice, but I don't have them yet.

[Mithras]

You got me quite excited there, badcat, but my copy has no rules like that. It has decent travel rules, but nothing related to hunger, exhaustion etc.

I have AD&D's Wilderness Suvival Guide, too - but I REFUSE! to check it out. Unless I'm really, really desperate

Believe it or not 'Space 1889' actually has some pretty good rules material for that sort of thing. I don't know how difficult it would be to 'translate' to a BRP style game, but it might be worth checking out.

[Jason D]

I knew there would be something in Edition Zero!!

...

I want rules for that!!!! I'm sure the BRP rules will suffice, but I don't have them yet.

Check your email.

[Mithras]

Thanks, Jason. That will do me fine for the game I have in mind. I take it that Difficult tasks are % skill rolls at half chance?

[Jason D]

I take it that Difficult tasks are % skill rolls at half chance?

Yep.

Automatic tasks always succeed, no roll required, no experience check.

Easy tasks are at double chance, no experience check.

Normal tasks are at normal chance.

Difficult tasks are 1/2 chance.

[badcat]

Really? I thought it had all that stuff about survival in the wilds of the solar system...sorry, it's been a loong time since I read it. Probably had it mixed up with some other rpg I've read, there have been too many...

Maybe it was a supplement, anyway sorry about the false lead.:ohwell:

[Kloster]

RQIII rules are a bit too much bookkeeping, but are running fine, and give a good simulation.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Mithras]

Well, well ... I've just picked up Sailing on the Seas of Fate for Elric!, and Mark Morrison has his own simple rules, but I'm not sure I buy the 'timing'; for example,

Thirst - After 7 days without water, lose 1D4 HP per day

Hunger - After 15 days, lose 1D3 HP per day.

In both cases HP lost in this way can only be replaced by eating and driking.

Its a bit of a brutal, simple system, but I don't agree with the long period of leeway given. And no effects of hunger, etc. Of course we are looking at something playable versus a complex simulation.

I do like the reduction in HP. BUT, having two types of HP reduction would get very .. messy. I propose a system where death is reached at ever increasing levels. So normally, death occurrs at 0 HP. Take 3 points of HUnger or Thirst, means that now, you die at HP 3. Three days later you suffer 4 more points of Hunger, and now you will die at HP 7. Its a bit like 'Hit Points taken off from the opposite end. So a guy fighting to cross the desert, battling cliffs, monsters and sandstorms, as well as hunger and thirst, is effectively 'burning the candle at both ends.'

This seems simpler, and moe realistic.