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River of Heaven - rules clarifications

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I Have purchased RoH and I'm very impressed, but I have queries on the some of the combat rules:

 

1. Page 112 - Area attacks, does this work?

Roll damage, say 3d6, total 14, compare with armour, say 8. 'If the damage overcomes the armour rating' - as it does in this case, (14>8), then damage inflicted is full, less half the armour rating (4) so actually total damage to HP = 14-4 = 10.

Ok, 'if the armour succeeds', say damage rolled is 7 vs. armour 8, 'the armour protects fully with any penetrating damage deducted from HP'.

 

However, if the armour 'protects fully' by presumably being rated higher than the total of the damage 9as in 8>7 above), unless the weapon has a PV value there IS no penetrating damage. On page 113 it states that area effect weapons with a PV value only apply to direct hits. So, presumably if damage does not exceed armour rating and PV doesn't count, the damage in that case will always be zero (making the 'with any penetrating damage deducted from HP' statement on page 112 redundant)?

 

2. Grenades - do these always have a 3m blast radius? What about larger 'artillery' - blast radii for missile etc. these aren't listed.

 

3. The good old discussion about movement options still isn't clear to me. Are the options listed on page 107 exclusive: i.e. you can either:

 

Change Stance (and presumably react/ attack) OR

Fighting Retreat (move from contact up to score plus one attack OR one reaction) OR

Move (with one attack and one reaction) OR

Sprint (Dodge only, double move)

 

Is Charge also instead of one of these exclusive moves or can it be combined with one of the above?(given that you get an attack and a double move, but forsake your reaction)

 

At the core of the question really is, what is the maximum distance someone can cover in one turn, is it two times their move rate (from Sprint or Charge) or are they allowed to do these AND get a free move?

 

4. Multifire - VERY confused by this. On page 111 under 'firing bursts' it refers to 'each additional shot fired in a burst'. Given that you can fire one shot OR burst for each ROF point for a weapon, I have taken it that if you have an FA weapon with a ROF of three you can make three attacks in the round, each of which could be a burst. Where does it say how many rounds (shots?) are fired in a burst to inform the calculation for 'each additional shot fired in a burst' increasing the shooting skill by 5%?

 

Also, when it says 'if the attack succeeds, roll to see how many shots hit the target' - roll what?

 

If the assumption is that you can effectively empty a mag in one round, say split between three bursts, you might be adding 20 rounds to each burst, pretty much guaranteeing a doubling of your chance to hit, and then what? Am I then just making a random die roll to see how many rounds hit - say on 1d20. If I roll a 20, am I then rolling the damage 20 times? I assume not else auto weapons would be instant killers every time. The rules must have intended something else, but what? I can house rule this stuff just fine but I'd like to know what the authors actually intended here. A worked example would help!

 

5. Pump action shotgun. Is pumping the weapon considered a 'load' action, or something you can do as part of your attack (effectively making it a Semi-Auto weapon in rules terms)?

 

6. Suppressing fire - I declare suppressing fire, my opponents run into it. As written, they are hit automatically - no roll required? I'm assuming this can't be right, else it's harder to hit a target that you are aiming at (normal ranged attack) than it is to hit them with suppressing fire?

 

7. Panic fire - this isn't very clear. Let's say I'm surprised by gunfire and I panic. Have I read it correctly that this means all my own ranged attacks back are halved in chance until I run out of ammo? What then?  How long does it last? do I get a chance to re-assess the situation and get back under control. What if I'm armoured heavily and the incoming fire is so weak as to be almost meaningless other than by Critical. Can I figure this out and check my panic?

 

8. Critical Hits and ignoring armour. On page 108 it says I do max damage with a crit, and double any PV value, but don't ignore armour. If my opponent attempts to dodge however (page 109), and fails, now armour IS ignored. Are these two rules in conflict?

 

Thanks for any time you can give to answering these queries,

 

Regards,

Guy

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I just got my physical copy of RoH this week.  I'm more inclined to house-rule any rule issues, but I appreciate the effort you took to write up your list and look forward to seeing some offical word. 

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Hi Guy

 

Just to let you know I've noticed this and I'm working on an 'official' answer to your questions, I'll get back to you in the next couple of days.

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Hi Newt,

 

I've started to read River of Heaven. (And I like what I'm reading :) )

 

I have two questions.

The first is not really about rules, and maybe I missed the information:

What is the River of Heaven?

 

The second question is about the point based characteristics process during character generation.

In page 23, a baseline human has 8 points to each characterics, to which you had 30 points where you what.

So 8*9+30 = 86

 

but in the example page 34, for Miriam who is a baseline human, we have:

STR 16 CON 12 SIZ 10 INT 13 POW 10 DEX 16 CHA 14
So 16+12+10+13+10+16+14 = 91

 

The repartition according to the text is STR +8, CON +2, DEX +8, POW+2, INT+5 CHA+4

So 29 points and a base for baseline human:

STR 8, CON 10, SIZ 10, INT 8, POW 8, DEX 8, CHA 10.

 

So what is the "official "base" for a baseline human?

 

And what is the "recommanded" based? I would tend to prefer the higher one, but Were there some side effects of having stronger characters?

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I assumed it was the Milky Way - Our Galaxy, but I am probably wrong.

I imagined the same. :)

 

After posting, I realized that I should have asked the question to John  Ossoway and not Newt. 

 

Does he sometimes come on BRP central?

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Hi Guy

 

Just to let you know I've noticed this and I'm working on an 'official' answer to your questions, I'll get back to you in the next couple of days.

Hi,

 

I would also have two questions about the  major mental dammage:

Further and independent of whether the Persistence roll was passed, they must immediately make a Resilience roll with a -50% modifier, or go into shock for 1D4 rounds. If this roll is fumbled, then the character goes into a catatonic state for 1D8 rounds.

 

Is that + 50% or -50%?

 

The example:

Miriam then rolls against her Resilience of 32%. She rolls 23 so doesn’t go into shock.

 

BTW, on p108, it seems there is mismatch in the example calculation for critical+3 and +1D6 . Dammage should be 11+1D6, shouldn't it?

 

Then on page 107, "then the Anarchists will be at -50% to their Persistence." I guess it should be +50%?

 

Thanks,

 

Fred

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@tauther: I mailed an errata for that to D101 Games when I received the test proof pdf from the Kickstarter, but apparently it did not get fixed... :(

 

Would it be possible to share it with us? :)

Thanks!

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Would it be possible to share it with us? :)

Thanks!

 

I didn't keep a back-up of the email. I did not actually FIX the errata though, I just mentioned the same thing you mentioned: a discrepancy between some of the tables, the text and the examples.

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1. Page 112 - Area attacks, does this work?

Roll damage, say 3d6, total 14, compare with armour, say 8. 'If the damage overcomes the armour rating' - as it does in this case, (14>8), then damage inflicted is full, less half the armour rating (4) so actually total damage to HP = 14-4 = 10.

Ok, 'if the armour succeeds', say damage rolled is 7 vs. armour 8, 'the armour protects fully with any penetrating damage deducted from HP'.

 

However, if the armour 'protects fully' by presumably being rated higher than the total of the damage 9as in 8>7 above), unless the weapon has a PV value there IS no penetrating damage. On page 113 it states that area effect weapons with a PV value only apply to direct hits. So, presumably if damage does not exceed armour rating and PV doesn't count, the damage in that case will always be zero (making the 'with any penetrating damage deducted from HP' statement on page 112 redundant)?

 

Roll

 

2. Grenades - do these always have a 3m blast radius? What about larger 'artillery' - blast radii for missile etc. these aren't listed.

 

3. The good old discussion about movement options still isn't clear to me. Are the options listed on page 107 exclusive: i.e. you can either:

 

Change Stance (and presumably react/ attack) OR

Fighting Retreat (move from contact up to score plus one attack OR one reaction) OR

Move (with one attack and one reaction) OR

Sprint (Dodge only, double move)

 

Is Charge also instead of one of these exclusive moves or can it be combined with one of the above?(given that you get an attack and a double move, but forsake your reaction)

 

At the core of the question really is, what is the maximum distance someone can cover in one turn, is it two times their move rate (from Sprint or Charge) or are they allowed to do these AND get a free move?

 

4. Multifire - VERY confused by this. On page 111 under 'firing bursts' it refers to 'each additional shot fired in a burst'. Given that you can fire one shot OR burst for each ROF point for a weapon, I have taken it that if you have an FA weapon with a ROF of three you can make three attacks in the round, each of which could be a burst. Where does it say how many rounds (shots?) are fired in a burst to inform the calculation for 'each additional shot fired in a burst' increasing the shooting skill by 5%?

 

Also, when it says 'if the attack succeeds, roll to see how many shots hit the target' - roll what?

 

If the assumption is that you can effectively empty a mag in one round, say split between three bursts, you might be adding 20 rounds to each burst, pretty much guaranteeing a doubling of your chance to hit, and then what? Am I then just making a random die roll to see how many rounds hit - say on 1d20. If I roll a 20, am I then rolling the damage 20 times? I assume not else auto weapons would be instant killers every time. The rules must have intended something else, but what? I can house rule this stuff just fine but I'd like to know what the authors actually intended here. A worked example would help!

 

5. Pump action shotgun. Is pumping the weapon considered a 'load' action, or something you can do as part of your attack (effectively making it a Semi-Auto weapon in rules terms)?

 

6. Suppressing fire - I declare suppressing fire, my opponents run into it. As written, they are hit automatically - no roll required? I'm assuming this can't be right, else it's harder to hit a target that you are aiming at (normal ranged attack) than it is to hit them with suppressing fire?

 

7. Panic fire - this isn't very clear. Let's say I'm surprised by gunfire and I panic. Have I read it correctly that this means all my own ranged attacks back are halved in chance until I run out of ammo? What then?  How long does it last? do I get a chance to re-assess the situation and get back under control. What if I'm armoured heavily and the incoming fire is so weak as to be almost meaningless other than by Critical. Can I figure this out and check my panic?

 

8. Critical Hits and ignoring armour. On page 108 it says I do max damage with a crit, and double any PV value, but don't ignore armour. If my opponent attempts to dodge however (page 109), and fails, now armour IS ignored. Are these two rules in conflict?

 

Thanks for any time you can give to answering these queries,

 

Regards,

Guy

 

Here's my answer's

1. You knock down the armour protection value by the Penetration Value first (PV value isn't actually mentioned in the Area Fire rules, but if you have a PV for a weapon you should always do this).

Then you roll damage and compare.

2. I can only see one Grenade area effect being quoted for Electro Magnetic Grenades on p88. As for the missing areas for missiles etc. I would take this as one of the areas where the OQ rules go abstract and rely on GM rulings.

3. If you use either sprint or charge you loose your standard Free move.  So the most you can move is double your move rate.

4. It’s a reload action.

5. No limits on the amount of rounds fired in a burst , so the player can state how many rounds in each burst. If using the ROF rules, then they state how many rounds in each burst. Roll for attack and if hit, roll a dice compatible with the number of rounds fired (so if I fire six I roll a d6, 17 roll a d20 counting results of 18-20 as 17 etc) to determine the number of rounds hit.

6. Yup the rules as written are correct, but what you have to remember is that the shooter has just emptied their magazine that round. Next round the air clears and the supressed characters can get up and start moving about. And yes if the characters are unlucky enough to be out in the open they've been hit by one of the bullets in this current

7. I would allow you to roll Resilience again if the situation changes, as of Games Master’s Advice on p38 ( the very last paragraph).

8. No these two rolls are not in conflict. They are two separate rulings for two separate instances. One is what happens on a critical attack, the other is what happens on when you fumble a Dodge.

 

Hope that helps.

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Hi Newt,

 

I've started to read River of Heaven. (And I like what I'm reading :) )

 

I have two questions.

The first is not really about rules, and maybe I missed the information:

What is the River of Heaven?

 

The second question is about the point based characteristics process during character generation.

In page 23, a baseline human has 8 points to each characterics, to which you had 30 points where you what.

So 8*9+30 = 86

 

but in the example page 34, for Miriam who is a baseline human, we have:

STR 16 CON 12 SIZ 10 INT 13 POW 10 DEX 16 CHA 14

So 16+12+10+13+10+16+14 = 91

 

The repartition according to the text is STR +8, CON +2, DEX +8, POW+2, INT+5 CHA+4

So 29 points and a base for baseline human:

STR 8, CON 10, SIZ 10, INT 8, POW 8, DEX 8, CHA 10.

 

So what is the "official "base" for a baseline human?

 

And what is the "recommanded" based? I would tend to prefer the higher one, but Were there some side effects of having stronger characters?

 

1. River of Heaven is the name that the Chinese give to the Milky Way ;)

 

2. The official Baseline for Baseline Humans is 8 per characteristic and is clearly stated on p.21 and p23.

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I'm quite a bit confused on one matter. Let's say I have a Ranged Combat Skill of 105%, and a Dex and Int of 15.

 

I choose to split my attack with my Infantry Rifle by 3. So I attack on (15), (10), and (5), splitting my 105% between them - say, 50, 30, 25.

Then I get another two attacks from Rate of Fire, also at (2/3 DEX) and (1/3 DEX) for a total of 5 attacks that combat round, at 15, 10(x2), and 5(x2) in the combat order.

Any of these 5 attacks can be Burst Fire or Double Tap attacks, as long as I still have ammo.

 

What are the Rate of Fire attacks rolled at? The full 105%, or the previous roll (I.E.: [at 15] 50, [at 10 #1] 30, [at 10 #2] 30, [at 5 #1] 25, [at 5 #2] 25?

 

So if I chose to split the 105% 4 ways (let's say 35%, 30%, 25%, 15%), then I would attack ([at 15] 35%, [at 11] 30%, [at 8] 25%, [at 4] 15%), and ([at 10] 30%, [at 5] 25%).

 

Do I have this right? If I made the 4-way split (25, 40, 30, 10), would it be ([at 15] 25%, [at 11] 40%, [at 8] 30%, [at 4] 10%), and ([at 10] 40%, [at 5] 30%)?

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Sorry, I have yet to get through my first complete reading of the rules.  The ROF is the number of times a weapon can be fired during a combat round, not added attacks.  The section on Combat Skills Greater Than 100% does talk about allowing as many actions as you want to divide your skill % by. 

 

You would need to use a different weapon once you reach the max ROF (3) I guess? 

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The ROF is the number of times a weapon can be fired during a combat round, not added attacks.

 

I agree you're not going to get off more attacks with a single weapon than at its ROF. Where things get a little dicey is in applying Double Tap. The rules don't explicitly say so, but I assume a particular weapon has to have an ROF of at least 2 to Double Tap. If you choose to Double Tap, you get your shots immediately, but the second shot comes at a Skill penalty. If you choose to take your shots under the standard ROF rules, no penalty. At least that's how I read it.

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