Gods, or forces?

[Stoatbringer]

What gods, demi gods, or forces do you have in your Magic World games? How active are they? And do you have your PCs do a lot to gain their favour, like worship regularly or go on quests?

[tooley1chris]

Currently I'm only using forces of Light, Balance, & Shadow.

When Chronicler Companion is released there will soon follow an alignment of the stars, or great cataclysm in the heavens, or war between those forces that will splinter them into individual Pantheons.(in my campaign )

I am planning a conversion of old school Deities & Demigods once I learn how Chroniclers Companion defines Allegiance system.

[Chaot]

I kinda dig how there are currently now gods in the published material.  I haven't started up my Magic World campaign but on top of the forces I was thinking about borrowing Virtues from Gods of Law and setting up some ancestor worship.  If gods show up in other material I'll integrate them into the game, but I'm currently very happy to go god free.

[muminalver]

I will probably use the forces system, modify it (with help from the golden book)

The different gods will have 2 forces, reprecenting their aspects.

So two cultists can push different aspects of their diety (loving diety, wengeful diety) this means that the "gifts" given to a gods champion will depend on the aspect the character has been "promoting".

For spellcasting will i use sorcery but only for members with great soulforce...(16 pow.), spell grimores will be limited to aapects of the diety.

[tooley1chris]

Inspiration! Neat idea, Muminalver! That makes so much sense as many gods have several aspects. Each aspect COULD have different rewards for allegiance and Apotheosis.

[Stoatbringer]

I kinda dig how there are currently now gods in the published material.  I haven't started up my Magic World campaign but on top of the forces I was thinking about borrowing Virtues from Gods of Law and setting up some ancestor worship.  If gods show up in other material I'll integrate them into the game, but I'm currently very happy to go god free.

 I like making up pantheons of gods. But it can be a chore if that isn't your kind of thing.

[Chaot]

 I like making up pantheons of gods. But it can be a chore if that isn't your kind of thing.

 

I like it too.  It's just that I find it refreshing to have a game with access to the supernatural but without deities to worry about.  I'm sure it will change in future publications.

[travellingdave]

David Ackerman here. When I was asked by other authors about religion in the Southern Reaches, here are some of the thoughts I sent back. This is from a few years ago when concepts were still simple and details hazy, so things may have developed in different directions since then.

 

1. Magic exists independent of the Gods. Magic users in the Irwan Empire draw power directly from the universe and do not need a deity to act as an intermediary. You can be an Atheist and still throw spells.

2. The Gods can be real but shouldn't be TOO powerful, or, alternately, they aren't overly interested in directly interceding in this world. In fact, I'd even toyed with the idea that it's hard to be certain if the Gods are truly real or just collective magical constructs created by the minds and rituals of their worshipers. I just wanted to be careful: A bunch of vengeful Gods tromping around would make the Fae threat look rather pathetic. Many Mythic Histories of the World exist, but it is impossible to know which is really true. Most describe some sort of epic creation at the hands of deities who soon faded into the background or returned to their supernatural slumbers. They can still hear the prayers of the faithful, can act as magical 'batteries' for their agents (through blessing and spells), but are very rarely roused to direct action. Clerics and priests CAN draw power and spells from their Faith (whether real or constructed) and the churches do wield real social and political power under many circumstances, however.

3. The Fae feature heavily in almost every culture's myths, especially between 1500 and 10,000 years ago. They were the Godlings whose power and capriciousness warped the world, created many new beings, and made men cower in fear or bow in supplication. At the height of their reign, the other Gods interfered little or were even beaten back by the Fae's corporeal power. Illegal Fae cults still exist in many places and many have been carefully re-ignited since the return of the White Count.

4. Nature spirits and sentient magical entities DO exist. They may simply be elements of a magical ecology or lesser manifestations of a larger pantheon. Minor cults and faiths can certainly focus around them (panthestic river and forest spirits, etc.). The elves form alliances with many of these in something that looks like a religion but is really more of a complex set of mutually-beneficial rituals and minor sacrifices of POW. Croll may be a powerful variation of this.

5. The Imperial Faith was conceived as a religion based on the worship of the Irwan Imperial Family and its ancestors as well as a discrete set of 'approved' Gods (Kalar and Genio among them).

[tooley1chris]

It's an interesting idea about the Fey. Perhaps they masqueraded as deities in ages past. Forming the likeness of those that worshipped them and Brought them "presents".

This could account for hundreds of Pantheons. Food for thought!

I'd planned on doing a Deities book once Chroniclers Companion is released but wasn't sure how to incorporate the already present sorcery into the mix. I really don't want to have Magic dependent on worship.

[travellingdave]

Absolutely! I'm certain that many opportunistic Fey chose to masquerade as 'gods' during their reign ... and some may be doing so now, both to capitalize on established power structures and perhaps even to discredit them. And it's worth remembering that the Fey had their own 'church' of humanity which worshiped them during their occupation and that still has many secret adherents.

[fmitchell]

I'm a fan of multiple conflicting religions and gods who (if they exist) maintain plausible deniability.  In the setting I've been tinkering with, there are multiple religions of Light, one mystical path of Balance, innumerable Shadow cults, and a few gods/pantheons/religions that lie wholly outside the Light/Balance/Shadow spectrum.

 

So, for example, the Old Religion conceives of Light and Shadow as primal forces created by an unknowable Maker, a bit like Earth's Zoroastrianism or Manicheism; its adherents follow the Light.  During the last days of the Grigorian Empire a new faith eclipsed the old, centered on the Eleven Lords of Light who walked the Known World and inspired humanity to throw off its chains.  A few centuries after that, the stronghold of the Old Religion up in the north splintered into an orthodox minority and the Zuringians, a puritanical sect which regards anything not of Light to be an agent of Shadow, ultimately lead by a "Devil" who will consume the world when the last True Believer dies.  A hundred years before the story starts an alleged Twelfth Lord of Light appeared in a far southeastern land; the "Twelvists" claim to follow the Light, but Elevenists have their doubts.  The Izadi, traders from far Pasharand who once came from much further away, also have their own Discipline of Light, which among other things proscribes alcohol and skimpy clothes.  Pasharand also hosts the suppressed cult Horyuana Kalam, ostensibly a religion of Light, which supports violent overthrow of corrupt regimes (like, say, the Izadi).

 

Shadow cults spring up almost as fast as the authorities can shut them down, most commonly around a Lord of Shadow (demon lord, alien god, or powerful sorcerer).  The most persistent cults are the Chthonic Gods of Atalan worshiped among less scrupulous Atalantans, the unnamed cult that venerates the Opener of Ways, and the Solace of the Dark Mother whose bleak message resonates among the poor and criminals.

 

Besides the mystical Path of Balance (or Way of Balance) whose origins are lost in history, some Ancestor Cults in pagan lands emphasize harmony with nature and therefore promote the Balance.  There's also Draconism, found both among the Dragon-kin of Pasharand and the pagan tribes of the northeast, which regards even human thought as unnatural.  Draconists believe that one should satisfy natural urges without regard for artificial constructs like morality or invocation of unnatural external powers (which is the basis of sorcery).  (Think Nietzsche's ideal of the Ubermensch.)

 

There are also gods and pantheons with no obvious relation to Light, Shadow, or Balance; how "real" they are is a matter of conjecture, but their adherents put great faith in them.  Most of these are pagan gods who satisfy very human needs, worshiped in barbaric lands and among rural folk who cling to the "old ways".  The six gods of Pasharand -- an amalgam of older Vashari, Lemurian, and Atalan gods -- still receive at least lip-service from the non-Izadi minorities.

 

Also notable is the Lemurian Way, a code of honor that governs a faithful Lemurian's relations with all other people.  Lemurian virtues include temperance, honesty, even-handedness, generosity, attention to dress and manners, deference to one's natural superiors, and mentoring to one's natural inferiors.  Detractors say it's merely an excuse for ethnic Lemurians to be as arrogant, vain, and cold-hearted as they want to be, only with a veneer of propriety.  (Real-world inspirations include Confucianism, libertarianism, Stoicism, and the Three Musketeers.)

 

So, game-wise:

• All characters have Light, Balance, and Shadow Allegiance much as described in the book.  Adherents of a religion of Light, Shadow, or Balance can pray to their power or god for Intervention; the GM rolls the character's Allegiance in secret to see if it works.  The GM may adjust the roll based on circumstances.  Intervention generally takes the form of a lucky coincidence, to maintain the powers' ineffability.
• Initiates to the cult of a god outside Law/Balance/Shadow have an additional Allegiance to that god.  No character may have an allegiance with more than one god.  Gods may only intervene within their sphere of influence (warfare, commerce, oceans, forests, etc.) ... assuming they exist at all.
• Lemurians pray to nothing.  Allegiance to the Lemurian Way is more like a Reputation score, and therefore only good for favors from other Lemurians or their allies.  It starts equal to the character's APP score, and increases or decreases depending on how closely the character adheres to Lemurian virtues.

Really, sorcery is much more reliable.

[BMonroe]

Absolutely! I'm certain that many opportunistic Fey chose to masquerade as 'gods' during their reign ... and some may be doing so now, both to capitalize on established power structures and perhaps even to discredit them. And it's worth remembering that the Fey had their own 'church' of humanity which worshiped them during their occupation and that still has many secret adherents.

 

Remember this? http://buckrogersguide.blogspot.com/2014/02/ep-204-journey-to-oasis-part-2-january.html

[Stoatbringer]

Remember this? http://buckrogersguide.blogspot.com/2014/02/ep-204-journey-to-oasis-part-2-january.html

What does Buck Rogers, and  ODX have to do with Fey and Magic world?

[tooley1chris]

If you read the ENTIRE script...You'll figure it out. LOL

I still like the idea of different patheons granting different benefits/penalties for Allegiance. I get why some want to keep it simple (and by the book in this case) by sticking with Light/Shadow/Balance, but I do love variety.