Contested Rolls in BRP0?

[frogspawner]

Really, commonsense should prevail in situations like this - no matter what the rules do or don't say.

If rules produce situations that offend against common sense, like this, then they need changing.

No big deal.

Au contraire. Rules matter.

[RosenMcStern]

Indeed, this is a subjec that might arise in real play. Some time ago (fifteen years, in fact - please forgive my senile babbling) I introduced the Chaos Gaggle in my campaign. And it happened that a Rune Lord attempted to parry an attack from the Zeech [for those who lack this widespread knowledge, a Zeech is a land-crawling chaotic whale]. Now my GM ruling was "let's figure out the damage and see if the parrier survives" - there was the chance of a critical, after all. The most experience player contested me: "It's a whale, now what chance can he stand?". My GM judgement would be different now - I would just skip the attempt. Rules should cover the average situations, not the extremes. A whale ram cannot be parried, no matter the APs of your weapon.

[Lord Twig]

I think you were right the first time. This is not Bronze Age re-enactment, this is heroic fantasy. This is the same world where someone can throw a javelin, jump on top of it and ride it into battle. How is that possible?

He's a hero, that's how it is possible. We had a character who, after much hero question, was effected by the rune of stasis. After that he could not lose a Str check, at the worst he could tie. He became the 'immovable object'. He would definitely try to parry a whale, dodging wasn't his style.

[RosenMcStern]

Yes, this is correct when the parryng weapon is inherently magical or, as in the case you mentioned, the parrier has heroquesting powers (<i>Garyunder</i> can jump on a thrown javelin, not everyone). I have witnessed and handled several occasions when a player character wielded a true adamant weapon, and in this case we just followed the AP rule - the weapon has infinite armor points and thus can parry anything. But we are speaking of an item forged for the gods, not a mere AP-enhancing enchantment. In this case the point was "Yes, you can do this with your weapon as it actually becomes, when you are on the Hero Plane, Arkat's Unbreakable Sword." rather than "Oh, your weapon has a lot of APs, you can parry it."

[Lord Twig]

Just thought I would mention a house rule we had.

Armoring enchantment on armor and shields helped to block more damage up to double their AP (A house rule limit on armoring enchantments). Armoring enchantment on weapons helped to keep the weapon from breaking, but it stopped the same amount of damage as an un-enchanted weapon. So if you enchanted your Iron Greatsword to double AP (12 +6 iron +18 enchantment = 36 AP, the most that we allowed) it still only blocked 12 points of damage, but you needed to do at least 37 points of damage to damage the sword.

Certain 'heroic' swords of course could block more, but they were exceptions.

[frogspawner]

But the new rule is that everyone has a "true adamant weapon-of-the-gods", and can normally parry anything (unless, ad hoc, the GM says they can't) ?

If so, your weapons may not break - but it's the rule that's broken.

[RosenMcStern]

@Lord Twig: I agree with your ruling, and in fact I also like to rule that a 1-handed weapon can never block more than its wielder's STR (STR x 1.5 for a two-handed weapon or shield). However, this sort of rules, although very realistic, tend to be not very appreciated because they add complexity. Furthermore, if your magically enhanced sword cannot totally block the attack of a weapon with Bladesharp on it, you are unbalancing combat magic.

Frogspawner: In a fencing or kendo contest, it works exactly that way - either you hit or you miss, no "amount of damage to be blocked". And this is better portrayed by an opposed roll than by checking if the blow overcomes the APs. However, in a real battle you will see a lot of blows clumsily blocked with shields and wapons just to avod being killed, so I just allow both options - opposed and unopposed rolls.

[frogspawner]

Frogspawner: In a fencing or kendo contest, it works exactly that way - either you hit or you miss, no "amount of damage to be blocked". And this is better portrayed by an opposed roll than by checking if the blow overcomes the APs. However, in a real battle you will see a lot of blows clumsily blocked with shields and wapons just to avod being killed, so I just allow both options - opposed and unopposed rolls.

From what you say, both real battles and stylised duels would be best portrayed by normal rolls (non-opposed), with a special ability for more highly skilled combatants (such as the over 100% reduce-the-opponent's-skill effect).

Opposed rolls just add game-mechanic confusion, not realism.

[NickMiddleton]

But the new rule is that everyone has a "true adamant weapon-of-the-gods", and can normally parry anything (unless, ad hoc, the GM says they can't) ?

If so, your weapons may not break - but it's the rule that's broken.

Err, which "new rule"? In BRP zero, a critical Parry or Dodge negates an attack and in the case of the parry the parrying object takes no damage - which is exactly how a critical parry worked in RQIII (and in RQIII, a special parry means the pParrying object takes no damage)...

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

[frogspawner]

Isn't the new BRP rule that normal parries block all damage too?

[RosenMcStern]

From what you say, both real battles and stylised duels would be best portrayed by normal rolls (non-opposed), with a special ability for more highly skilled combatants (such as the over 100% reduce-the-opponent's-skill effect).

Sigh! This is really turning into a religious dispute.

Most battles take place between opponents in the 80%-90% skill range. Using non-opposed rolls, two combatants with 95% skill take some ten melee rounds to resolve a combat - no, to hit once, since you are not guaranteed to win a fight after the first hit. The "over 100%" rule only applies to limited cases, as most characters never exceed 100%. In a real situation the difference in skill between two opponents always matters, be it a tackle in a soccer match or a duel to the death, while with yor suggestion skill difference only matters when

skill goes above 100%.

Opposed rolls just add game-mechanic confusion, not realism.

No, it doesn't. It is in systems like HeroQuest where all rolls are opposed versus a "Standard difficulty" that things can get messy. In BRP a roll is opposed only if someone is actively tryng to counter what you are attempting to do. Like landing a blow upon one of his most beloved organs

[frogspawner]

Most battles take place between opponents in the 80%-90% skill range.

Cobblers, as usual, Rosie.

PS: I bet you can't resist having the last word...

[soltakss]

Last words aside, I'm intrigued by parrying a brontostaurus's stomp.

On the face of it, this is clearly silly - a brontosaurus is like the Mother of Monsters in RQ and it's stomp is an area effect in that it can affect more than one person and an area effect can't be parried (can it?)

But, imagine a brontosaurus stomping on hercules (What? There weren't brontosauruses in Hercules' time? Thet never bothered the writers of the TV series) he is quite capable of grabbing the foot, holding it in the air and then moving it aside. After all, he once took Atlas's place and held the sky up so a little iddy-biddy brontosaurus shouldn't be a problem.

So, excluding magic (Great Parry - ha!), Heroes (Hercules), Gods (Thor is pretty strong) and special abilities, you shouldn't be able to parry a brontosaurus's stomp, but you could dodge out of the way or set a spear for it to stomp on and hope that it's leg gets disabled before it hits you.

Of course, hard PCs would take the damage, then pull themselves out of the hole they have just been stomped into, get back up and give the brontosaurus a good kicking.

[RosenMcStern]

Cobblers, as usual, Rosie.

Pardon me, but I have GMed enough RQ/BRP/CoC/whatever to have a clear idea about what skill most fighting-enabled characters tend to have. Excluding Soltakss' campaigns perhaps.

PS: I bet you can't resist having the last word...

Being a BRP forum, I think trolling is allowed here. Maybe it is just a matter of calling it "uzing" instead.

As for resisting or not, the point is that when you come out with statements like "Opposed rolls create confusion and not realism", or someone writes "The Opposed Roll Taint" - can't remember if it was you - it reminds me of religion rather than a creative and intelligent way of having fun, and so I feel that you deserve a polite, but firm, reply.

I am not a great fan of the "vox populi" principle, but please note that most people who write for, or simply play, BRP or MRQ or HQ or whatever tend to use or prefer a somewhat-opposed roll system. Of course I am the first to be suspicious of opposed rolls when using a matrix [it was ME who ran a poll to know what exactly people thought about it on The Other Forum, remember?]. Of course nobody forces you to give up your opinion. If you do not like opposed rolls, just play RuneQuest 2 or 3. They are still great games, and there are still copies available on eBay.

[frogspawner]

On the face of it, this is clearly silly - a brontosaurus is like the Mother of Monsters in RQ and it's stomp is an area effect in that it can affect more than one person and an area effect can't be parried (can it?)

Perhaps a Bronto Stomp could be interpreted as a "Sweep" attack, just in a different direction from normal. BRP0 would then say parrying it was possible, if a STRvDamage roll was made, which, if successful, would stop the blow and save any further (shorter?) people in the area. Seems about right to me...

[soltakss]

That makes sense and allows for the Herculean Grapple as well.

So, now we've worked out that a Brontosaurus's stomp can be parried, what other off-topic questions can we answer?

[Bandersnatch]

All skill rolls are percentiles made with a d100.

A skill success is a roll ≥ your skill.

A skill failure is a roll < your skill.

Too, there are “Special” & “Critical” rolls.

A Special roll is any percentage, evenly divisible by 10, except 100%.

A Special success is any Special roll that is ≥ your skill.

A Special failure is any Special roll that is < your skill.

A Critical roll is any percentage that is “Doubles”. This includes every percentage evenly divisible by 11, & 100%. E.g. “00”/zero zero.

A Critical success is any double that is ≥ your skill.

A Critical failure is any double that is < your skill.

In comparing rolls (typically skill vs skill), from the top down, this type of roll beats the types of rolls below it.

Critical Success

Special Success

Success

Failure

Special Failure

Critical Failure

If, for example, two people get Critical Successes, the higher of the two numbers wins. If those two rolls are the same number, then the person with the higher skill wins.

If, during game play, you succeed with a skill, ask the Keeper if it deserves “a check”. If the Keeper determines that it does, make a light check-mark  in the box provided next to the skill in question. If the roll was a Special success, put a light “s” in the box, and if the roll was a Critical success, put a light “c” in the appropriate box.

(Erase any checks after the monthly skill improvement rolls.)

Approximately once a real life month, characters will have an opportunity to improve the skill(s) they have checks by.

(Or that they are training in. We’ll deal with these later.)

To succeed, they must roll a d100, and add the appropriate Skill Category Modifier; the total must be < their current skill, or 101+%.

Special checks get to roll twice to improve the skill.

Critical checks get to roll thrice to improve the skill.

You can only improve a skill once a month, regardless of the number of times you’re allowed to try.

Improvement Reward Summary

Method________Normal check_____Special check_____Critical check_____Time Required between checks

Experience¹____d12-2%__________d10%____________d8+2%__________Approximately 1 real life month.

Training_______d12-2%__________d10%____________d8+2%__________Hours equal to skill%. (min. of 1 hr.)

Research______d12-2%__________d10%____________d8+2%__________Hours equal to skill%. (min. of 1 hr.)

POW gain³_____d3-1_____________d3______________d3+1____________Approximately 1 real life month after a successful POW vs ≤ POW attack.

Characteristic²_d3-1_____________d3_______________d3+1___________Current Characteristic x 25 game hours.

¹ Must have successful experience increase roll.

² May increase by training or research.

³ Special rules - refer to Call of C’thulhu book.

Adieu, Adéesse, & Blest be,

-Bander

[frogspawner]

That's rather like the Harn system, isn't it? Can't say I'm keen.

If, for example, two people get Critical Successes, the higher of the two numbers wins.

Nah, don't like that - you were trying to roll low!

If those two rolls are the same number, then the person with the higher skill wins.

Yeah, like that - much better!

...the total must be < their current skill, or 101+%.

I presume that should read roll ">" skill for increase rolls. But then, since everything else is rather non-standard, maybe not...