What would YOU pay?

[tooley1chris]

I'll admit, I'm WAY out of the loop on most squid-head stuff, but out of curiosity  (and hoping for news on Chroniclers Companion) I was browsing Chaosiums site and saw Horror on Orient Express selling for $120. The PDF for half that. "$60 for a dang PDF?" I said aloud. "WTH?" So I dug into the description and watched an unboxing video and...yeah...now I get it.

Congrats to everyone involved, of course. What a piece of work! I know I'm behind. Don't grief me too badly as I'm mostly only interested in fantasy and MW, so I never really even gave Orient Express a thought.(But did cast my vote for loyalty sake)

 I found myself thinking "what a great fan base the system must have to spend so much on it." Then I realized if such a product were released for MW, or a equally impressive tool set, I'd prolly fork out that kinda cash. Maybe not for a series of (incredible looking)  adventures so much, but a thick campaign guide coupled with a pretty monster tome? Maybe including a hard copy of MW with errata? 

What would YOU expect if you were given a $120 price tag for something Magic World related?

 

 

Edited September 14, 2015 by tooley1chris

[threedeesix]

What would YOU expect if you were given a $120 price tag for something Magic World related?

I would expect Heidi Klum to swing by every week to run it for me, and while I know I'm busy, I would make the time.

Edited September 14, 2015 by threedeesix

[auyl]

What would YOU expect if you were given a $120 price tag for something Magic World related?

I'd spend that much if it was a completely self-contained setting that had full maps, adventures, some figures and detailed setting info that included new spells, character options etc.

Maybe even something along the lines of TSR's Menzoberranzan and I'd spend that for it.

[tooley1chris]

[rsanford]

Normally $65 or $70 is the upper limit on what I will spend on a GOOD rpg book. Of course if it is some type of bundle deal then it can be more expensive. I only own a few books that I view as worth $65 (much less $120) and they include the old D&D  monstrous manual, the D&D players handbook (2E), RQ6, GURPS ROME, Alphetar's BRP Rome, Hero System 5th Edition, and "maybe" the big gold book.

I would pay $120 for a Magic World bundle if it included a hard copy version of MW with improved layout and addressed errata and a hard copy monsters manual done in the style of TSR's Monstrous Manual but I would expect it to be well written and polished.

I am hoping Alephtar comes up with a bundle for their new Revolution game done with the same attention to detail as their Rome book. If Alephtar gives me a rule book and a beastiary that enables me to easily run a low magic Stormbringer type game while providing the quality I saw in their Rome book I will cough up the cash!

Ps- I forgot a book... Unknown Armies is also worth $65...

 

[auyl]

See it'd have to also be something I could justify spending the money on. For instance, I'm sure HotoE is worth the $120, but I've never been able to keep a CoC campaign going long enough to make it worth it. So with that in mind, a large campaign setting with what I mentioned before, would serve me a lot better since it's something I could come time and time again.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

What would YOU expect if you were given a $120 price tag for something Magic World related?

I would expect everything.

[fmitchell]

A hardcover version of Magic World with all errata corrected, and two grams of solid gold ($70).

[Trifletraxor]

A boxed campaign with LOTS of nice handouts and props!

[Mankcam]

Well a hardcover version of Magic World, with colour title page art may be nice if you want the system to sell. The content is good, but modern production is generally a tad better and more colourful. Perhaps include a hard cover Advanced Sorcery book, or include most of that content in a bigger version of the Magic World core book.

For me personally, perhaps a hard cover version of The Southern Reaches would be much better, expanding the content greatly, with some one-shots included or perhaps a small campaign. I love the map in the Magic World book, but it needs to be inlaid into the internal covers. Having more on The Southern Reaches would be great, possibly even detailing an adjoining region, The Eastern Reaches perhaps?

Hardcover books are my preferred option, although the nostalgic element of a boxed set is sometimes hard to beat!

Edited September 14, 2015 by Mankcam

[NickMiddleton]

 

What would YOU expect if you were given a $120 price tag for something Magic World related?

 

I kick started Horror on the Orient Express - I ALSO was a "patron" of Monte Cooke's Ptolus book - which IIRC was on the order of $120.

The later was hard cover, full colour throughout. Meticulously edited, proofed read, cross indexed and indexed. With sumptuous illustrations#. And a text written from first principles to support extended campaign play in the chosen system's style in that setting. In the case of Ptolus, that was D&D 3.5 (albeit the setting is sufficiently well done it could easily be ported to others), and D&D 3.x never had a better campaign or setting that was so well tailored to its strengths and typical modes of play.

I'd happily pay the same for a Magic World campaign pack of similar quality. Something like Griffin Mountain; Sea Kings of the Purple Towns; Arkham Unveiled but bigger and better. Not necessarily more detailed in the sense of more scripted - but with better indexing and cross referencing; more base material that I can adapt and shape to my game; more stuff that inspires and assists me to run at MY table, with MY group. The best campaign packs / settings IMO, combine both immediately playable material AND inspirational stuff.

But to be honest, I'd happily accept well executed black & white illustrations and a lower price tag if the writing's good enough.

Cheers,

Nick

 

# Note the emphasis: far too many RPG's substitute lots of vaguely relevant colour art for putting the effort in to fewer, intelligently commissioned and executed pieces that genuinely illustrate the text. There are far too many RPG books at look at these days and think - it's pretty, but is it any use?

Edited September 14, 2015 by NickMiddleton

[RosenMcStern]

I am hoping Alephtar comes up with a bundle for their new Revolution game done with the same attention to detail as their Rome book. If Alephtar gives me a rule book and a beastiary that enables me to easily run a low magic Stormbringer type game while providing the quality I saw in their Rome book I will cough up the cash

 

I hate hijacking a Magic World thread (Ben will beat me with a plastic replica of Stormbringer... or at least I hope it will be a plastic replica and not the real thing), but why don't you post these wishlists on the Revolution forums? I am currently evaluating exactly these details for the crowdfunding (prices, bundles, stretch goals) and it might be just one week or so before the crowdsourcing starts. This kind of feedback might be vital in order to create a product that is a successful as Rome.

Thus, please open a thread on the Revolution forum: http://basicroleplaying.org/forum/18-revolution/ I might do it myself but I prefer if it is a user who does this.

[1000buffalo]

I think Ben will forgive you, sir.

For myself (having Horror on the Orient Express, among others), MW - or a MW release - would need to reach similar levels. I grabbed Cubicle 7's London boxed set for COC, which prices ~ $90 US. Component-wise I'd expect heavy paper maps, several high quality books, illustrations.

Honestly, though, I'd be happy with a 64 - 96 page MW that's well executed, laid out, and crisply done. I think the magic of MW isn't in its volume, really.

[Baron]

$120 is well out of my price range. I don't like PDFs. If I'm going to buy a core rulebook, I want it HC and complete, with a bestiary. I don't need a setting or adventures in my core book. Also, Id much prefer fewer illos, skip the gold leaf and fancy binding; keep the price down, just make it sturdy. I like boxed supplements, and I like adventures. But when it comes to settings I'm extremely picky. It takes an awful lot to convince me to buy.

[seneschal]

My question is, who is the target market for that $120 prestige product and how many of 'em do you actually expect to sell?  Will you make a profit on your expensive-to-produce end-all-be-all package?  Both Magic World and Call of Cthulhu 7th have been presented as entry level games intended to draw in new players.  Are we expecting newbies just dipping their toes in the BRP waters to shell out that kind of dough?

The most I've ever paid for RPG materials is $70 for two Classic Traveller reprint books, which gave me waaaay more material than I ever gamed with in high school and college.  My usual limit for a game book is around $40.  The Traveller stuff was purchased in part with birthday gift money; I paid $30 out of my own pocket.  As you can tell, I'm an old fart and cheap to boot.  But as other posters have said, a modest black-and-white, well-written and well-edited book providing enough background and inspirational material to launch and sustain my campaign is what I really need, not an expensive tome of pretty pictures or a soon-to-be-crushed box filled with soon-to-be-lost board game elements.

Now, over the years I've probably spent more than $120 on a game, but not all at once.  A solid, affordable base game with interesting affordable supplements would be more likely to get my money.  Again, Game Designer's Workshop presented Traveller as a complete game for $12, but then came out with a host of supplements costing only $5 or $6 apiece.  You bought the bits you liked and probably ended up spending a fair overall amount in the end.  But you didn't have to choose up front whether to invest that sort of money in an untried product.

[tooley1chris]

Agree on many points listed above. I always loved how ICE did MERP. (Middle Earth Role Playing)

Put out a decent product for a fair value and flood the market with campaign material and modules. My shelfs buckle under the weight of all those books.

Even if it wasn't the Southern Reaches (which I understand was just meant as an example) a wonderfully written/edited/illustrated campaign guide based on MW would be nice. Nothing as complex as Glorantha please, but open enough to make it mine without hours of studying. 

Hmmmm....new project?

[nclarke]

This discussion is interesting in that the participants are generally pitching values that relatively speaking are much lower than the relevant products were back in the 70's and 80's. Considering that the majority of folks buying many of the old style products are in their 40's or 50's and have a lot of disposable income their parsimony is interesting. The big ticket items like Horror are almost certainly relying on a large nostalgia factor amongst the purchasers. People have become accustomed to glossy volumes laden with illustrations and demand those bt in generally are unwilling to play those prices. If we had B&W illustrations of the quality of those in teh old books folks could have the low prices but a question of cake and Queen's comes to mind.

[soltakss]

I would expect Heidi Klum to swing by every week to run it for me, and while I know I'm busy, I would make the time.

For that price, she'd have to do more than just run a game! 

[tooley1chris]

I think that's a matter of perspective and priorities, Nclarke.

Almost all of my ICE MERP books I purchased were when I was but a lad with little disposable income. A new book came out, I mowed a few lawns, shoveled snow off a few driveways and beat feet to my local game store. 

Indeed now that I'm older (not so much wiser perhaps) I do have some spare cash to sling around and will put out for something pretty and useful to support my only real hobby. (My wife would say Vice)

But were I still a lad I'd find a way to make a worthy purchase still. 

I paid $50 for the old Core Rules II and another $30 (? ) for the expansion which was an excellent computer tool for AD&D when I was early 20s. I'd still use it today, if I were to run an AD&D game.(not likely)

But relatively speaking I'd pay double that for a like tool for BRP/Magic World.

 

[Hexelis]

I love box sets with multiple books and MAPS, Horror is on the extreme end, maybe half the size, half the price. I'd buy those regularly.

[Questbird]

This discussion is interesting in that the participants are generally pitching values that relatively speaking are much lower than the relevant products were back in the 70's and 80's. Considering that the majority of folks buying many of the old style products are in their 40's or 50's and have a lot of disposable income their parsimony is interesting. The big ticket items like Horror are almost certainly relying on a large nostalgia factor amongst the purchasers. People have become accustomed to glossy volumes laden with illustrations and demand those bt in generally are unwilling to play those prices. If we had B&W illustrations of the quality of those in teh old books folks could have the low prices but a question of cake and Queen's comes to mind.

As one of those older gamers you mention, I do have more disposable income than I did in the 80s. I still regret not buying Beyond the Mountains of Madness when I saw a copy in print. But at the time it was $80 (this was in the 90s) which was expensive then, and I had lots of unplayed Call of Cthulhu campaigns (and still do). I do buy new and 'vintage' RPG products more readily than I would have back then. Still, there are constraints. Shelf space is one, and currency conversion rates, and shipping. I'd have to think about a $120 super Magic World bundle. It's not out of the question. For my ultra RPG product I would look for a well-written large scale campaign in a setting which could be slotted in somewhere -- not a whole world. I'm not particularly interested in a megadungeon, unless it has a really good reason for existence. I would want Magic World statted NPCs and creatures, cults etc. Location maps and maybe player handouts (Cthulhu style). Examples of what I'm talking about: The River of Cradles (Runequest 3), The Traveller Adventure (GDW), Masks of Nyarlathotep (Call of Cthulhu), Against the Giants (AD&D). I understand the 'Enemy Within' Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay campaign was also pretty kickass, though I've not played or GM'd that one.

[threedeesix]

I would expect everything.

But where would you put it? 

[SDLeary]

I love box sets with multiple books and MAPS, Horror is on the extreme end, maybe half the size, half the price. I'd buy those regularly.

This. For boxed sets I want Trollpack, Big Rubble, Pavis, Borderlands, Thieves World type boxes. Enough information of good quality to get you going with some support materials. I love Horrors, but it is somewhat extreme.

[nclarke]

All you fantasists pining for the Eighties and boxed sets are never going to see the like again (the Eighties or boxed sets). The cost of boxes is pretty high for sizes able to take US Letter/A4 books and only the Chinese printers seem to do them at lowish price points (and we all know, or should, the issues with having your printing done thousands of miles away with a huge language barrier). Generally speaking those folks wanting boxed sets and full colour are usually the ones shouting about the high cost of RPG books and seem to have little grasp on the reality of niche publishing in the 21st Century.

[SDLeary]

All you fantasists pining for the Eighties and boxed sets are never going to see the like again (the Eighties or boxed sets). The cost of boxes is pretty high for sizes able to take US Letter/A4 books and only the Chinese printers seem to do them at lowish price points (and we all know, or should, the issues with having your printing done thousands of miles away with a huge language barrier). Generally speaking those folks wanting boxed sets and full colour are usually the ones shouting about the high cost of RPG books and seem to have little grasp on the reality of niche publishing in the 21st Century.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm clear. 

IF someone were to produce boxed sets or supplements though, the above is more what I'd be looking at. The only color that I might want in such a set would be any maps, or perhaps the odd full color plate. 

Sets that have everything under the sun, and then some are nice, but even more cost prohibitive.

Perhaps companies that want to do special sets though might consider sleeves rather than full boxes.

SDLeary

Edited September 17, 2015 by SDLeary