Chaosium's Latest Statement on BRP

[smiorgan]

Instead of constant speculation as to whether the BRP Essentials will be RQ6 based (it is, and I'm saying no more about it at this stage), or moaning about what you think it SHOULD be, get out there and write some reviews of BRP, RQ, MW and Cthulhu supplements and channel your energies into something positive...

Okay, okay Loz you don't tell us anything more, but remember to simplify those damn base skill scores! What the heck does STR+DEX mean? Do you think a newbie can understand it, let alone compute? 

That said, I'm off to the RQ6 play-by-post game I'm running for a group of Italian players. Dunno if it counts as support, I count it as a lot of fun.

I really look forward to what Chaosium / DM will release, especially RuneQuest (Glorantha) and Mythic Iceland!

Smiorgan  

[TrippyHippy]

The main market for RuneQuest has always been ex-D&D players, to be honest. Players who have become jaded with and/or disappointed by D&D for any variety of reasons and are looking for a new game.

Finding ways to tap into that, based upon RuneQuest's strengths is always a challenge - as they are competing with a whole bunch of other RPGs out there. RQ6 was critically well received, but there is still only limited awareness of the game amongst gamers - especially new gamers who have no underlying interest in RPG history or system design. Shelf presence in game stores help this, but demo games do moreso. Moreover, I don't see any quick fixes overnight.

I could see the impact of the upcoming Classic Fantasy being significant, as it directly taps into a D&D-esque fantasy. It was, I think, comfortably the best selling BRP supplement for Chaosium (when they used to run charts) - and it's possibly the most likely avenue for new players to enter into the RQ rules (along with Essentials). Whatever the merits of Magic World - and I do think it had plenty of good ones - I always thought that Classic Fantasy presented an equally valid approach for an intro BRP fantasy game, without the complexities of Glorantha or other specified settings attached.

The question is, for me, whether it will also be compatible with the BRP Essentials book? If so, why not just include an extra 32 pages to make it a self contained entrée point?

(And on a similar vein - why not make Luther Arkwright a self contained game too!?)

I see this trend happening everywhere in the RPG hobby actually. The Onyx Path (a de facto new White Wolf) has chosen to release all there 2nd Editions of NWoD games (Vampire: The Requiem, etc) as stand-alone games, rather than linked to a core WoD rules book as before. Cakebread and Walton's Dark Streets - which was formally linked to their Renaissance generic book, has now been upgraded to include it's own rules. If more of these settings were self-contained games, we would never need to have the anxiety of core systems shifting around because of business reasons again.

We've seen the commitment of Chaosium to now release Mythic Iceland (their best BRP setting release, in my view) as a stand alone book, but I could see it being done for other BRP titles too. Just include that extra 32 pages..... 

Edited October 7, 2015 by TrippyHippy

[Sunwolfe]

My local gaming store is 'Dan's Books and Games' in Cobourg, Ontario...I run a fortnightly game that attracts about 9 people, none of whom had ever heard of RQ before, and 3 of whom had never role-played before. I've sold 4 copies of RQ through Dan's place, but that's really immaterial; every other week, 9 people turn up to game, have a great time...

 

A quest! A quest! Cobourg or bust! Who will join me!?

;-)

Cheers!

[Nick J.]

As a disillusioned D&D'er eager to find something to take the place of the only game I ever really got a chance to play, it took me ages to find D100 gaming; there just wasn't much that hit my radar when I started looking around to see what else was out there. Ultimately the only reason I ever discovered it was because of a youtuber who goes by the nom de plume "Runeslinger" and his in-depth series where he talked about building a campaign from scratch using the RQ6 rules as a foundation. When RQ6 showed up in a bundle of holding I finally took the plunge for the system in pdf format and tried to dive in. Frankly I found the system difficult to digest and wrap my head around how it was meant to be played (decades of class and level gaming can come with a lot of baggage) but I knew there was something there that appealed to my sense of what I find intriguing and fun in a game. It was only when I took a chance on Magic World - and I think I only stumbled on to it by an Amazon recommendation - that d100 gaming finally clicked into place for some reason. So for me at least actual play reports and user reviews were immensely important in discovering BRP games and it had almost nothing to do with corporate marketing.

While MW is currently my game of choice (I've even managed to make 3 converts just in the past month-and-a-half. Like me, people for whom it just clicked and appreciate its simplicity and flexibility) that isn't to say I'm not keen to re-examine RQ6 or some system derived from it and give it a fair shake; after all it's a very well written book and the hardcover has a pride of place on my gaming shelf, even if I still find the idea of running a game RAW with it a little too fiddly for my taste, but perhaps a slimmed down generic system based on its principles will be just the thing to get me excited to really dig in and learn its nuances?

In the meantime I'll continue to use Magic World in my bi-weekly VTT game as well as with the group of RPG newbies who have had me run a couple of one-shots for them in a face-to-face game and if BRP essentials turns out to be something I can get people to grasp just as quickly as MW then perhaps it will be worth moving on to it when I finally get that BRP-cyberpunk game going I've got kicking around in the back of my head.

I wish the new Chaosium well and hopefully everything turns out OK.

Edited October 10, 2015 by NAJones
faffed about grammarz

[el_octogono]

Perhaps Chaousium, or this community, can make a small booklet or pdf with advice on how to run games at conventions and local stores. When to use pregens, what experience levels to use (i'm thinking low skilled characters could discourage a new player if he misses a few rolls), suggested duration, advice on managing different types of players and spotlight, etc. Even some sheets with info on actual and future releases, and some evocative and passionate text that can communicate that which we BRP fans find much attractive. And of course, an invitation to join this wonderful forum.

[Akrasia]

I'm very happy with this news.  A simplified RQ6 for BRP Essentials sounds great.  And I'm glad that BRPE will serve as the core for all future Chaosium (and DM, of course) games.  I'm looking forward to checking out the new version of Mythic Iceland (even though I already own the earlier version).

It is a pity that CoC will employ a somewhat different system.  I like 7e well enough (I've run 7 sessions of it, and it plays just like good old CoC to me).  But it would've been nice to have all of Chaosium's games sharing the same BRPE core.  Oh well.  CoC is a big enough game to be somewhat discontinuous from the rest.  And after all the troubles that have been involved in getting 7e out, I can't imagine that we'll be seeing a new version for many years to come.

So Chaosium's RPG future is: RQ6-based BRPE, BRPE-based games like Mythic Iceland, RQG, and CoC 7e. I can live with that!

[Mankcam]

Okay, okay Loz you don't tell us anything more, but remember to simplify those damn base skill scores! What the heck does STR+DEX mean? Do you think a newbie can understand it, let alone compute? 

Loz don't change those base scores!!!  ?

Edited October 8, 2015 by Mankcam

[dragonewt]

However, I've got thousands of hours of work invested in two 80-page manuscripts based on the Big Gold Book. No one is now going to publish those manuscripts unless I do some extensive rewrites and additions. I've got skin in the game. I don't blame anyone but myself and the dice, but I reserve the right to whine.

Why does a genuine and legitimately expressed complaint or point of view have to be dismissed with a thought-terminating cliche by calling it "whining"?

Invisible misdirection or subtle manipulation is the worst kind of violence, because it is not as obvious as "hate mail", and can be hidden by implying it is still "being nice".

[dragonewt]

There are a handful of other stores scattered around the metropolitan area, but they seem sharply focused on boardgames, CCGs, and a very limited scope of Rpgs (D&D, Shadowrun, FFG Star Wars). I suspect that you'd have quite a job on your hands convincing them to carry BRP product that might not move quickly and just tie up valuable (rotating) shelf space.

Everywhere I look at the moment I see board games being the "in thing". In new and trending cafes as well as traditional RPG B&M stores. This is perhaps similar to the impact Magic the Gathering once had on the RPG industry.

I also see the trend of "gamification" in new RPG systems (most likely to leverage board game popularity), where ROLE-playing takes a back seat to ROLL-playing in RPGs, drawing on the war-game origins and board-game simplicity and trends. This is perhaps the market where the newer D&D and Pathfinder succeed, because that is the audience of gamers (and style of play) that are the majority.

Consider the WoW factor for D&D 4, the "simplification" for D&D 5, the popularity of Savage Worlds, latest War Hammer RPG, and the new Infinity RPG rules. Within those, consider the trend of these games having cards, tokens for "fate" (etc...), special dice, and other board-game influences. In some cases these add to a game from a board-game point of view but actually interfere from a holistic role-playing point of view ("What do you mean I can't be creative and try my idea because I don't have any tokens left?" or "Why does using my character's skill at full strength mean that the enemy gets some more tokens that they use for more resources later on?").

Maybe the pop-culture popular market wants to actually be playing a board game while it is pretending it is role-playing.

How does BRP/RQ (etc...) compete with or penetrate that market?

Edited October 8, 2015 by dragonewt
Spelling

[Aelwyn]

Why does a genuine and legitimately expressed complaint or point of view have to be dismissed with a thought-terminating cliche by calling it "whining"?

Invisible misdirection or subtle manipulation is the worst kind of violence, because it is not as obvious as "hate mail", and can be hidden by implying it is still "being nice".

Others had used the term, and I was responding to that. I was referring to myself only, and I didn't mean to offend. Feel free to substitute "complain" or "express my opinion."

As I said before, I don't bear anyone any ill will, but this has been devastating to me for reasons that are personal and have nothing to do with Chaosium or the relative merits of RQ6 v. the BGB. I've got a lot of sweat equity invested in the BGB as a ongoing system. I'm trying to be polite and mature about it, but the bottom line is, I got screwed. So did anyone else who's been working on a supplement based on the BGB in the hope of it being published. Please forgive any passive-aggressive (or aggressive-aggressive) behavior on my part as the rantings of someone who just stepped on a tiger trap and failed his Agility roll.

Gonna go lick my wounds and rethink this whole author-of-RPG-scenarios thing. Then I'll probably reach out to a couple of publishers, including Chaosium.

Also, I believe I now owe Paolo some more money.

[dragonewt]

Others had used the term, and I was responding to that. I was referring to myself only, and I didn't mean to offend. Feel free to substitute "complain" or "express my opinion."

I was addressing the way the term "whine" had been used by others, not by yourself. I am guessing that you felt obliged to use the same word as they used (so that you could defend your stance) instead of using "complaint" because the word "whine" was used by them to invalidate your view by attacking a tone they imposed on you instead of them addressing your reasoning.

Edited October 8, 2015 by dragonewt

[threedeesix]

 

However, I've got thousands of hours of work invested in two 80-page manuscripts based on the Big Gold Book. No one is now going to publish those manuscripts unless I do some extensive rewrites and additions. I've got skin in the game. I don't blame anyone but myself and the dice, but I reserve the right to whine.

I can sympathize with you.

I have re-written Classic Fantasy a total of four times now, with each near complete version numbering around 300 to 500 pages. And I have been doing this since 2008, so I cant even guess the number of hours invested. But, each time I rewrite it, it becomes better than the previous version. Don't give up, if its something you care that much about, you'll do everything you have to to get it published. Plus there are more avenues now than ever before to go through. Yes, it sucks to feel so much work is wasted, but your books will be better for it in the long run, trust me. I know.

Rod

 

[Guest Vile Traveller]

The thing is, nothing is wasted until you actually give up on it.

[nclarke]

Note the new Chaosium announcement that they are teaming up with a noted boardgame designer to produce two boardgames next year. Turn your thousands of pages of RPG work into  a boardgame and you might get it published.

[RosenMcStern]

This works better if you are Reiner Knizia.

[Aelwyn]

This.

But, each time I rewrite it, it becomes better than the previous version.

And this.

The thing is, nothing is wasted until you actually give up on it.

Yeah, I'm already seeing how this could be a good thing. I just need to put on my big boy pants and keep typing. Thanks, everyone, for the words of encouragement.

[Simlasa]

I've noticed that boardgame effect with a lot of the online games I've been playing in.

The more the usage of a grid/board come into it the more people seem to revert to depending on what they see vs. what the GM describes. I've gone on elsewhere about one Call of Cthulhu game I played it that ended up feeling like a game of Clue. My favorite online games have been the ones that eschew the visuals/toys and go with just audio and maybe player's faces on camera.

I'm not sure it's so much even the influence of boardgames... maybe it's just the general expectation of great visuals in all forms of entertainment these days... video games and movies... mainstream RPG lines stressing the visual appearance of their books... and what boardgames, like those from FFG, have come to look like.

Does having all these great full color illustrations on every page of a rulebook set up disappointment when you set down to the game and all you've got to look at are the images in your mind?

In the old days where the look of the rulebooks was fairly basic, with B&W line art... or something like Classic Traveller that barely had any illustrations at all... and the images were coming from your imagination to begin with... there was less abrupt difference from looking at the book and actual gaming. Plus, probably more players were avid readers than nowadays... better at creative visualization.

But nowadays I'm not surprised some players try to shore up the experience with more widgets and miniatures and terrain and whatnot... even though I find those things often limit the aspects of RPGs that excel over video games and boardgames.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Simlasa

[smiorgan]

Loz don't change those base scores!!!  ?

That was a JOKE! I like them too. 

 

[Guest Vile Traveller]

The more the usage of a grid/board come into it the more people seem to revert to depending on what they see vs. what the GM describes.

In the old days where the look of the rulebooks was fairly basic, with B&W line art... or something like Classic Traveller that barely had any illustrations at all... and the images were coming from your imagination to begin with... there was less abrupt difference from looking at the book and actual gaming. Plus, probably more players were avid readers than nowadays... better at creative visualization.

But nowadays I'm not surprised some players try to shore up the experience with more widgets and miniatures and terrain and whatnot... even though I find those things often limit the aspects of RPGs that excel over video games and boardgames.

I've always played with miniatures and props, that was quite normal in the early days when RPGs still had a lot of wargamer connections. I do find strict grid movement a la d20 limiting, but I like to have my minis and my old '82 Dungeon Floorplans on the table to keep an eye on what's going on. I remember when many of us looked askance at the "new" style of playing without minis ... damn kids!

Mind you, I play a few play-by-post OD&D games and they are very loose with that sort of thing.

[Simlasa]

I've always played with miniatures and props, that was quite normal in the early days when RPGs still had a lot of wargamer connections. I do find strict grid movement a la d20 limiting, but I like to have my minis and my old '82 Dungeon Floorplans on the table to keep an eye on what's going on.

Yeah, I usually had some minis around during my early games as well... and drawing out a quick sketch to show where everyone was never seemed to be much of a distraction... but what I'm seeing in some online games is a map that is always up and people moving their figures every turn... even during non-combat situations. It's feels more like Warhammer Quest, Descent or Tomb. Not just a quick sketch of the layout either... full color with lighting effects and even sound effects sometimes.

Not that it's badwrongfun... just that it seems futile to try to do something with TTRPGs that video games and boardgames are already devoted to doing better. Maybe some boardgame/RPG hybrid is the way to go though... with advanced play moving more and more away from the toys and into the players' minds.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

I have to say Doom could be quite fun played with a group and a referee ... 

 

[SDLeary]

Not that it's badwrongfun... just that it seems futile to try to do something with TTRPGs that video games and boardgames are already devoted to doing better. Maybe some boardgame/RPG hybrid is the way to go though... with advanced play moving more and more away from the toys and into the players' minds.

Only if they can do it better than FFG... Warhammer feels like an abomination to me.

SDLeary

[TrippyHippy]

Loz don't change those base scores!!!  ?

Loz change the base scores!

Actually, I'm not fussed. However, for a beginning game (BRP Essentials) it may be worth reviewing these little details just to make it easier to pick up. I have no doubt that most people can handle simple edition, but there quite a few calculations that need to be done in RQ character generation. One of the factors in the original BRP was to strip down out all the complications of the original RQ rules. So, in the case of skills, we had flat base scores introduced. On the other hand, the % skills weren't actually well linked with the 1-20 range Characteristics anyway - unlike RQ6 where the relationship is clearer.

I do wonder whether the character sheet could change a bit to help with chargen though - include all the advanced skills on the sheet (so that you don't have to check the book for what combination of stats are needed to calculate the base - it'll be on the sheet already), include more space for adding up totals (from Culture/Profession and Free skill bonuses), and create an inclusive, alphabetic list maybe? The easier you can generate a character straight onto a sheet, without referring to the printed rules, the better the generation process is for beginners. If you only have one rulebook to a group, then individuals don't need to wait for it to be handed around.

 

 

[Guest Vile Traveller]

From personal experience I find that one of the most difficult bits in writing a stripped-down core book intended to be useful for any genre lies in choosing an appropriate set of skills to include and giving them names that are not tech-level dependent. That's another reason you can't have magic or psionics or superpowers or the like because those are for specific setting types, and with 32 pages you don't have room for optional content.

[soltakss]

I have re-written Classic Fantasy a total of four times now, with each near complete version numbering around 300 to 500 pages. And I have been doing this since 2008, so I cant even guess the number of hours invested. But, each time I rewrite it, it becomes better than the previous version. Don't give up, if its something you care that much about, you'll do everything you have to to get it published. Plus there are more avenues now than ever before to go through. Yes, it sucks to feel so much work is wasted, but your books will be better for it in the long run, trust me. I know.

 

I feel your pain - Merrie England has been through two systems and is soon to be on its third, due to licensing issues. 

Don;t feel that it is time wasted, instead think of it as honing and improving the system.