Chaosium's Latest Statement on BRP

[Mankcam]

I do wonder whether the character sheet could change a bit to help with char gen though - include all the advanced skills on the sheet (so that you don't have to check the book for what combination of stats are needed to calculate the base - it'll be on the sheet already)

 

 

While I agree that this could be handy, it may also be impractical, given the potentially very vast array of Advanced Skills. It is great to have a list of Common Skills on the sheet, but the Advanced Skills, Magic, and Combat Styles are too varied to be printed on the sheet, and it may also 'straight-jacket' choices to a degree (Ie: space for only 3 Lore skills, etc). 

I have always liked the look of having all the skills listed on the BRP character sheets, and I think this was perhaps best done with RQ3 and again recently with MW ( both lists appear to look less 'overwhelming' than CoC or BRP BGB)

Despite this, I have actually found that the RQ6 character sheet benefits from not having a huge pre-printed skill list like BRP does.

BRP's way of doing it is nice for the char gen process, but it's not like you can easily see your notable skills at a quick glance. It's a bit like not seeing the forest for the trees, so to speak.  

In practice I think the way the MRQ D100 SRD sheets tend to do it is better in play for newbies - everyone can see the common actions they are capable of, and at a glance they can also see their specialties.

But that might have only been my experience, I guess everyone is different 

At the end of the day, its all good :-)

Edited October 10, 2015 by Mankcam

[Baulderstone]

I'm with Mankcam on this issue. Having all the formulas on the sheet is handy during character generation, and then is just clutter that I don't need for every session after that. 

 

The joy of the Internet age is that within a week of BRP Essentials being posted there will be plenty of homebrew sheets posted online, in addition to separate character generation worksheets and scripted PDFs and Excel worksheets that do all the math for you. How Chaosium decides to handle things is largely beside the point. 

[Lou Goncey]

I'm with Mankcam on this issue. Having all the formulas on the sheet is handy during character generation, and then is just clutter that I don't need for every session after that. 

 

The joy of the Internet age is that within a week of BRP Essentials being posted there will be plenty of homebrew sheets posted online, in addition to separate character generation worksheets and scripted PDFs and Excel worksheets that do all the math for you. How Chaosium decides to handle things is largely beside the point. 

"How Chaosium decides to handle things is largely beside the point."

Quoted a second time for emphasis.  

[Mankcam]

Every community is made up of a small number of jarls and a large number of carls, neither exist without the other

Amongst the carls there are also thanes

And occasional even carls rise to equal the jarls

Just sayin'  

 

PS: perhaps I'm watching too much of Vikings recently :-)

 

Edited October 11, 2015 by Mankcam

[threedeesix]

 

PS: perhaps I'm watching too much of Vikings recently :-)

 

There's no such thing as too much Vikings. There's not enough. They need to make new episodes faster!

[Sunwolfe]

There's no such thing as too much Vikings. There's not enough. They need to make new episodes faster!

Word!

[Guest Vile Traveller]

Apart from Jason's post in the Interplanetary thread, there's a new podcast by MOB and Jeff (which is a bit marketingey, but still): http://www.glorantha.com/tales-of-mythic-adventure-episode-13-what-chaosium-did-next/

[jux]

So what is this essential, basic BRP book? RQ6 light does not tell me much, because RQ6 is the most detailed RPG I know (and am willing to play).

I think, what comes from RQ are the derived skill base values from attributes (DEX + INT), am I right?

How compatible will the new BRP core be with CoC7, where attributes are percentile? Will it be the case for new BRP core as well? I quite like it, because quite often it makes sense just to test character's raw strength, speed, etc rather than specific skill that may or may not be trained. I don't like how the base skill values are so low, when they do not get trained.

Will BRP also have occupations/backgrounds? That give skill bonuses and access to advanced skills? OQ got rid of them, but RQ6 went too deep into it. I'd like to have them in very simple form.

[Baulderstone]

I'd be surprised if occupations/backgrounds of some type aren't included. I see them as a big help to new players. BRP has always been a simple system, but back in the '80s, I can remember the character generation being a hurdle for some players. Being given a giant pool of hundreds of points, then spreading them over a wide range of skills was a real chore for some players.Having occupations and backgrounds give players some structure to fall back on.

If some groups find it overly structured, it's always easier to loosen up how players spend points than it is for a group that wants structure to have to make up a list of occupations on their own. 

[trechriron]

While I agree that this could be handy, it may also be impractical, given the potentially very vast array of Advanced Skills. ...

I'm working on a new RQ6 sheet. It will include common skills, and a reference sheet with advanced, magical skills with base stats for reference. The reference sheet will also include common/handy tables for play. It will be a fork of my Legend sheet, but more compact. I had a "skills worksheet" that could be used to track IRs in up to 24 iterations across two sheets, but I feel that may have been too much. :-)

[Mankcam]

I'll keep an eye of for this. The reference sheet especially may come in quite handy

[Spellslinging Sellsword]

I'm working on a new RQ6 sheet. It will include common skills, and a reference sheet with advanced, magical skills with base stats for reference. The reference sheet will also include common/handy tables for play. It will be a fork of my Legend sheet, but more compact. I had a "skills worksheet" that could be used to track IRs in up to 24 iterations across two sheets, but I feel that may have been too much. :-)

Awesome to hear. I love your Legend one and was hoping you'd do a Runequest 6 one.

[Mankcam]

I can remember the character generation being a hurdle for some players. Being given a giant pool of hundreds of points, then spreading them over a wide range of skills was a real chore for some players...

I do think that Magic World is very good with the character generation process, and in this respect it is perhaps the quickest of the BRP games (excluding the old BRP booklet from the early '80s).

In Magic World I like how you pick an occupation then choose a primary skill, three secondary, and four tertiary skills from that occupation list; it is smooth and much less fiddly. Players tend to grasp the concept very quickly. 

Chaosium/Moon Design should consider if this concept could be salvaged for use with BRP Essentials, and it could still be overall consistent with the RQ6 build for Cultural Skills and Career Skills.

I really hope the charm of BRP Essentials will be in its simplicity 

 

Edited October 17, 2015 by Mankcam

[Baulderstone]

I do think that Magic World is very good with the character generation process, and in this respect it is perhaps the quickest of the BRP games (excluding the old BRP booklet from the early '80s).

In Magic World I like how you pick an occupation then choose a primary skill, three secondary, and four tertiary skills from that occupation list; it is smooth and much less fiddly. Players tend to grasp the concept very quickly. 

Chaosium/Moon Design should consider if this concept could be salvaged for use with BRP Essentials, and it could still be overall consistent with the RQ6 build for Cultural Skills and Career Skills.

I really hope the charm of BRP Essentials will be in its simplicity 

Delta Green works well too. You pick your profession, which gives you all the skills related to it at the required level to perform the job. You then get a big pool of free points to spend to flesh your character out. However, they also provide a long list of background packages that cost the exact amount of the pool. You can allocate the points yourself, or just pick a package and copy it down. Or you could take a package and juggle the points around a little bit. 

[Mankcam]

Delta Green is one of the very few BRP family products that I missed out on, but I have heard that the char gen is pretty good, like you say.

I think with RQ6 you have to change very little, it is already reasonably quick. I would suggest that player choice is kept for which skills are chosen from the Cultural and Professional Backgrounds, although perhaps stipulate the bonus received to save time (ie: add 15% to two common skills, 10% to two common skills, and 5% to two common skills. Then choose three professional skills, the first at 15%, the second at 10% and the third at 5% - that sorta thing. Disregard my actual bonuses, I'm just portraying the concept rather than working out the package mix). Then still allow players to tinker with a small pool of personal skill points at the end to customise their character.

It would work pretty much the same, but just slightly quicker for newbies. Because the Characteristics have a big impact on starting skill values then the characters will be very different even if from the same cultural and professional background, especially if they choose a different skill mix.

I would like to see a little bit more work developed around Passions, as currently it is very good for ideals, motivations, and relationships, but perhaps more general personality traits could also be encompassed within that system. This could be something developed in a BRP Companion if it takes too much space in the BRP Essentials rules, along with more Special Effects, sample Combat Styles, and other plug-in rules.

See, I am getting ahead of myself. I like the idea of a slim BRP Essentials core rulebook, but already want its Companion Volume in production;

You just can't please some people 

 

Edited October 17, 2015 by Mankcam

[Baulderstone]

Delta Green is one of the very few BRP family products that I missed out on, but I have heard that the char gen is pretty good, like you say.

The beta rules for the edition that is Kickstarting now are free. I ran the system during the playtest and it was very solid then. This is actually a later version than I used. 

Delta Green Agent's Handbook

Delta Green Cheat Sheet and Character Sheet

Delta Green Quick Start

I would like to see a little bit more work developed around Passions, as currently it is very good for ideals, motivations, and relationships, but perhaps more general personality traits could also be encompassed within that system. This could be something developed in a BRP Companion if it takes too much space in the BRP Essentials rules, along with more Special Effects, sample Combat Styles, and other plug-in rules.

Passions would be a good thing to include, even as an optional rule. Chaosium has been one of the pioneers on personality mechanics with games like Pendragon and Call of Cthulhu, yet BRP sometimes get unfairly labeled as a game where characters are cold mechanical pile of numbers. The systems in Pendragon and Call of Cthulhu are too genre specific for the basic book. Passions add some flavor while managing to fit into a wide variety of games.

While they are raised and lowered in a different fashion than skills, their use is just like a standard skill check. It's a good way to show a newbie the versatility of the core system, as well as a handy way to highlight augments. 

 

[smiorgan]

Wow! At first sight these Delta Green rules look beautifully clean and new stuff they added seems to actually have a purpose...

(OK, you know what other game I'm thinking about... but I'm not going to name it... )

 

 

[Mankcam]

Yes I like the way professional packages are organised, it quickly gives you the bonuses for the skills associated with that profession. Yes in many ways this system looks a more fitting successor to the BGB than the new flagship setting will be, and will possibly ensure that the core BRP BGB build lives on quite well - its a shame that the two systems will diverge, given they are covering the same content from a different perspective.

Darn, I knew I should of jumped on that Kickstarter - well I'm definitely buying the new edition of Delta Green when it is released!

For BRP I think starting values for skills is a nice touch for the char gen process, and I think it should be default for the BRP Essentials book.. There could always be an optional system for those you want to tinker with bulk points like the current system, but the majority of players I know just want to get the mechanic stuff out of the way quick and prefer to focus on the character background if possible.

Given that Chaosium looks like bringing out a slim edition of the BRP rules, it also makes sense to streamline things just a little, as long as it is compatible with RQ6, so I think starting skill values could be a useful.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Mankcam

[SDLeary]

The beta rules for the edition that is Kickstarting now are free. I ran the system during the playtest and it was very solid then. This is actually a later version than I used. 

Delta Green Agent's Handbook

Delta Green Cheat Sheet and Character Sheet

Delta Green Quick Start

Passions would be a good thing to include, even as an optional rule. Chaosium has been one of the pioneers on personality mechanics with games like Pendragon and Call of Cthulhu, yet BRP sometimes get unfairly labeled as a game where characters are cold mechanical pile of numbers. The systems in Pendragon and Call of Cthulhu are too genre specific for the basic book. Passions add some flavor while managing to fit into a wide variety of games.

While they are raised and lowered in a different fashion than skills, their use is just like a standard skill check. It's a good way to show a newbie the versatility of the core system, as well as a handy way to highlight augments. 

 

 

I think this has to due with exposure. 

Personality mechanics in BRP started out in RQ2 as a mechanism to help describe the personalities of Dragon Newts, moving from there to a GMs tool for general NPC description. Its still in the BGB, stuffed into the GMs section. These are what would become the Personality Traits in Pendragon. 

I'm not sure where Passions came from, but it could have been tied to Sandy's exploration of Pamaltella, and the Jelmere.

It would be really nice if Chaosium further codified these in the base system and put them into the BRP Compaion.

SDLeary

[SDLeary]

Darn, I knew I should of jumped on that Kickstarter - well I'm definitely buying the new edition of Delta Green when it is released!

Its not over yet! In the home stretch so you can still get in on it.

SDLeary

[Baulderstone]

Yes I like the way professional packages are organised, it quickly gives you the bonuses for the skills associated with that profession. Yes in many ways this system looks a more fitting successor to the BGB than the new flagship setting will be, and will possibly ensure that the core BRP BGB build lives on quite well - its a shame that the two systems will diverge, given they are covering the same content from a different perspective.

Divergence is a mixed blessing. It would make life a little easier if everything were built on the same base. On the other hand, having another branch creates a whole lot of fresh rules that can be cobbled together with other BRP games. 

One thing to point out: As a playtester, we were given no new adventure material. All playtests had to be conducted using adventures from the old Delta Green books written for use with CoC. This was because one of the design goals of the game was to provide 100% backwards compatibility. Even with all the slick new bells and whistles Greg Stolze put on the system, it still worked just fine for me while running CoC adventures. 

Darn, I knew I should of jumped on that Kickstarter - well I'm definitely buying the new edition of Delta Green when it is released!

As SD Leary points out, it's not too late. 

For BRP I think starting values for skills is a nice touch for the char gen process, and I think it should be default for the BRP Essentials book.. There could always be an optional system for those you want to tinker with bulk points like the current system, but the majority of players I know just want to get the mechanic stuff out of the way quick and prefer to focus on the character background if possible.

Given that Chaosium looks like bringing out a slim edition of the BRP rules, it also makes sense to streamline things just a little, as long as it is compatible with RQ6, so I think starting skill values could be a useful.

The only issue with it is that the Essentials book is going to be somewhat generic in nature, which makes it hard to know what builds to provide. What would be cool would be for Chaosium to provide additional free downloads with archetypal build packages for various genres. Of course, if they have their hands full making other stuff, I'm sure it is a task we could manage if only we could find a BRP-friendly website with a downloads section. 

I think this has to due with exposure. 

Personality mechanics in BRP started out in RQ2 as a mechanism to help describe the personalities of Dragon Newts, moving from there to a GMs tool for general NPC description. Its still in the BGB, stuffed into the GMs section. These are what would become the Personality Traits in Pendragon. 

I'm not sure where Passions came from, but it could have been tied to Sandy's exploration of Pamaltella, and the Jelmere.

It would be really nice if Chaosium further codified these in the base system and put them into the BRP Compaion.

SDLeary

I was actually referring to the Passions system in RQ 6, as that's the basis for Essentials. I know I have seen the ones from RQ 2 somewhere. I thought i had them in back of one the Gloranthan Classics, but I can't seem to find them. 

[lawrence.whitaker]

Personality traits were originally in Griffin Mountain, and then found their way into Pendragon.

Passions as found in RQ6 (and they are in BRP Essentials) were created by me for MRQ1 Elric of Melnibone, and subsequently developed through MRQ2 and then into RQ6.

[SDLeary]

 

I was actually referring to the Passions system in RQ 6, as that's the basis for Essentials. I know I have seen the ones from RQ 2 somewhere. I thought i had them in back of one the Gloranthan Classics, but I can't seem to find them. 

I know. Just providing a bit of background as to personality/social mechanics in BRP in general. 

And yes, they do appear in the Gloranthan Classics. In Griffin Mountain, pp.82-83, NPC Record Form. Listed as Personality Factors and Attitudes. IIRC, this was the first appearance in a supplement (c.1981). Prior to that I recall a magazine article (White Dwarf??) that talked about things in terms of trying to describe the odd dragonewt personalities. 

SDLeary

[Guest Vile Traveller]

Prior to that I recall a magazine article (White Dwarf??) that talked about things in terms of trying to describe the odd dragonewt personalities. 

SDLeary

It was in one of the last few issues of Wyrm's Footnotes. The same appeared for RQ3 in one of the supplements (Elder Secrets?).

[Baulderstone]

I know. Just providing a bit of background as to personality/social mechanics in BRP in general. 

And yes, they do appear in the Gloranthan Classics. In Griffin Mountain, pp.82-83, NPC Record Form. Listed as Personality Factors and Attitudes. IIRC, this was the first appearance in a supplement (c.1981). Prior to that I recall a magazine article (White Dwarf??) that talked about things in terms of trying to describe the odd dragonewt personalities. 

SDLeary

Thanks. Griffin Mountain was my first guess, but I thought they were in the back as an appendix, so I missed them.