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Chaosium's Latest Statement on BRP


fmitchell

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Its not over yet! In the home stretch so you can still get in on it.

SDLeary

The Good:

Hi guys, thanks for the heads up on the Delta Green Kickstarter. Cool, I thought I had let that one slip - I just jumped in for an Agents Handbook!

The Bad:

More kickstarter projects to get updates from. My inbox is so full of these, its easy to overlook important ones, its becoming a job keeping up with all these projects!

The Very Bad:

My kids don't eat this week, and the Lady of the House will berate me to no end - just the usual situation of a roleplaying family guy!.Time to put in for work overtime again!

Edited by Mankcam
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" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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The only issue with it is that the Essentials book is going to be somewhat generic in nature, which makes it hard to know what builds to provide. What would be cool would be for Chaosium to provide additional free downloads with archetypal build packages for various genres. Of course, if they have their hands full making other stuff, I'm sure it is a task we could manage if only we could find a BRP-friendly website with a downloads section. ^_^

Generic book should have rules for creating profession/background template. For example (2x30%, 3x20% skill bonuses, etc). It can be simple.

But still, I want to know - are the base attributes percentile values in the new BRP core?

Also, about Delta Green, I quite like the combat rules. They remind me OpenQuest where you have multiple tactical options that one can do in combat. I remember CoC6 had it very loose and when I was beginner, I really struggled running the combat there. I wish new BRP core had these simple yet efficient combat actions. I also hope BRP core will not include RQ6 combat effects as they are too detailed and are suited only for specific flavor of gameplay.

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Personality traits were originally in Griffin Mountain, and then found their way into Pendragon.

Passions as found in RQ6 (and they are in BRP Essentials) were created by me for MRQ1 Elric of Melnibone, and subsequently developed through MRQ2 and then into RQ6.

Passions were already in Pendragon (Hate Saxons!). But they were d20 based, of course.

They had been already ported to BRP by the authors of French Hawkmoon, for the supplement 'Fils de Granbretanne in 1999:

http://www.legrog.org/jeux/hawkmoon/fils-de-granbretanne-fr

They made crazy Granbretannian extremely fun to play. But they were generally useful to get the feeling of the Hawkmoon stories. 

That said, I guess Loz's idea of including them in MRQ1 Elric was completely independent from the French authors. And a damn good idea it was! :)

I'm pretty excited they will be in BRP Essentials. And I look forward to a lot of passions in Mythic Iceland ". Will your wanderlust win over your love for the beautiful Hildur and drive you set sail towards far-off Vinland? Will you loyalty to your Godi inspire you as you search the barren volcanic highlands for traces of his son?

 

 

 

 

Edited by smiorgan
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Characteristics are the traditional range. They're not percentile. And combat will include Effects. Saying that they're only suited to a specific style of game play is to miss their point entirely.

Loz, I think most people here are really looking forwards to the new BRP, admire your game design skills and applaud your efforts. And.... we will continue to miss a lot of points! :)

By the way, people missing the point of a game mechanic can be very informative for a game designer.  Maybe the mechanic is OK, but its presentation can be improved...

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By the way, people missing the point of a game mechanic can be very informative for a game designer.  Maybe the mechanic is OK, but its presentation can be improved...

Of course, and we do listen to feedback, whether direct or indirect :). My point though, is that Jux said: they are too detailed and are suited only for specific flavor of gameplay. I'd disagree that they're too detailed, but agree that, until one is used to them, they can be overwhelming (and how they're introduced is partly about presentation - no argument there). Where I think the point is missed is the 'specific flavour of gameplay': well, the Effects are there to take what is otherwise a quite bland combat system and turn it into something evocative, flexible and, most importantly, fun. In other words, to introduce some flavour. The effects don't favour any particular style of game play, but they do encourage people to be a little more creative than Hit/Parry/Damage/Rinse/Repeat.

Anyhow, Pete and I are hoping to be able to share more of BRP Essentials with people quite soon. We've had to be very quiet recently, but we do want to talk about the game more openly and, once the current review round is complete, I'm hoping that will be possible.

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The Design Mechanism: Publishers of Mythras

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I have only one important question: what is the time frame we are speaking of?

End of this year, first, second, third, forth quarter, etc?

Would also like to know if there will be a preview version to proof-read.

Maybe somebody can also tell me if the "Essential Version" will also be a 'generic' book or if it will be Fantasy based. That would help me a lot to make decisions for the future of my RPG group.

Any useful input would be much appreciated.

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And combat will include Effects. Saying that they're only suited to a specific style of game play is to miss their point entirely.

I am used to RQ6 combat effects. But I have seen how people who are not playing it daily are struggling with it. It is not newbie friendly or basic. Each time the battle will halt and he/she will take the time to process the list and mix and match the effects that are suitable. I will never play RQ6 as one-shot with new group to have a old school dungeoncrawling fun for example - I was hoping BRP basic would be good choice for this.

I also think different genres might have different detail level of combat or perhaps different sets of combat effects? Will it do pulpy games? Superheroes?

I just want to point out to give people option for simplicity, because many like BRP just for that.

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Like I was saying with having packages in character generation, its easy enough to strip out Special Effects if you don't want to use them. 

However, I thought about lowering the number for a new group, but found on examining them that they mostly just do things any system does: Called shots, trip, stun, critical damage, disarm, etc. It's just most systems would have a long series of frequently forgotten spot rules on these rather than smoothly building them into the core of combat. 

That said, I think it's a good idea to pick a small list of Special Effects for a new player that suit their character. Don't block them from using the full list, but just give them a small list to digest first. 

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Like I was saying with having packages in character generation, its easy enough to strip out Special Effects if you don't want to use them.

Hmmmm, I am afraid this could break the game. Some opponents will just refuse to go down without special effects like impale or "choose the location where he is already wounded", bringing back the "combat lag" effect and making players bored. Furthermore, without effects a critical has totally no effect in combat. Eliminating combat effects requires some additional tinkering with the rules.

 

That said, I think it's a good idea to pick a small list of Special Effects for a new player that suit their character. Don't block them from using the full list, but just give them a small list to digest first. 

I definitely prefer THIS idea. Consider it stolen :)

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Hmmmm, I am afraid this could break the game. Some opponents will just refuse to go down without special effects like impale or "choose the location where he is already wounded", bringing back the "combat lag" effect and making players bored. Furthermore, without effects a critical has totally no effect in combat. Eliminating combat effects requires some additional tinkering with the rules.

 Good point. I am probably too sleep-deprived too make solid design choices right now. If you stripped them out, you would need to replace them something.

I definitely prefer THIS idea. Consider it stolen :)

I find that if you give some players a big list of options, it can overwhelm them. Give them 3-5 to chew on, let them see the possibilities, then casually say, "Hey, there is a whole big list of those things over here." Having had a chance to develop an appetite, the player will likely dive right in. Some players will remain completely content with the small list most of the time, and that is just fine as well. 

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That said, I think it's a good idea to pick a small list of Special Effects for a new player that suit their character. Don't block them from using the full list, but just give them a small list to digest first. 

THIS.

If I get to play RQ6 with my kids I will make special effects cards for them. They will start with a small "hand" of effects adapted for their characters. And there will be a full deck of effects on the table. The idea is that they can either select an effect from the hand or draw a random one from the deck. 

D&D4-style power cards simplify a lot the handling of games with many options. I love to use cards when I play 13th Age. And my kids like cards and are used to manage complex rules written on cards. They are both Magic players.

   

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If I get to play RQ6 with my kids I will make special effects cards for them. They will start with a small "hand" of effects adapted for their characters. And there will be a full deck of effects on the table. The idea is that they can either select an effect from the hand or draw a random one from the deck.    

This too. Cards can be a nice touch for those who like such things and the idea of a random pile in the middle to avoid decision paralysis is also good. Generally whenever I've taught RQ SE's to new players I've given each player a small selection for their character and introduced other SE's only when relevant. 

One of the key things about RQ combat that is, I think under appreciated, is that SEs are really the core of combat with Damage almost secondary. Most people tend to assume that enhancing damage is the primary role of SEs (i.e. that SEs are the icing on the damage cake). I think it's more accurate to say that damage is the icing on the SE cake (bar some edge cases like giants stomping on pixies.)

Bruce

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That said, I think it's a good idea to pick a small list of Special Effects for a new player that suit their character. Don't block them from using the full list, but just give them a small list to digest first. 

GMis is already enough work. Prepping rulesets for other players is more than I am willing to do.

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Don't know if I read this advice in RQ6 or a GM gave it to me (it's not original with me):

Have new players look over the list of Special Effects and pick 4 to start out with (2 defensive and 2 offensive). Focus on using just those until you're comfortable with them, then add a couple more. You don't have to go through the entire list every time. 

Loz, it might be worth adding that advice to the rules if it's not in there... though I know space is going to be at a premium.

The campaign I'm about to join also has a nice house rule to prevent people from using "head shot" every time. If you pick the same SE twice in a row, the defender gets a bonus because he can see it coming. Very realistic from a combat point of view, and it also forces players to be a little more creative. Might be too crunchy to include in the short version of the rules.

Personally, I love the special effects. They're fun and they make combat more narrative rather than just a dice fest and war of attrition. Isn't it great that there's a rule for throwing sand in your opponent's eyes?

Loz, please add a "Humiliate Opponent" SE that either enrages them (stop defending and only attack) or demoralizes them (stop attacking and only defend; makes Compel Surrender easier) if they fail an INT contest. I've got some characters that could really use that. :)

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Don't know if I read this advice in RQ6 or a GM gave it to me (it's not original with me):

Have new players look over the list of Special Effects and pick 4 to start out with (2 defensive and 2 offensive). Focus on using just those until you're comfortable with them, then add a couple more. You don't have to go through the entire list every time. 

...

Loz, please add a "Humiliate Opponent" SE that either enrages them (stop defending and only attack) or demoralizes them (stop attacking and only defend; makes Compel Surrender easier) if they fail an INT contest. I've got some characters that could really use that. :)

Another option (which does require either the GM or another player to really know the system) is to not have them use a 2-page spread of options, but instead go "Ouch, that was a good one. What do you want to do?" If the player states that he'd like the monster good and dead, give him the choice to impale or bleed it. If it has an unarmoured location, throw Choose Location in there too. If the player on the other hand just wants to get of there before it is too late, give him the option to Withdraw or Bash etc. 

You could work the SE-mechanics in organically instead of systematically.

And if the player states that he wants to humiliate his opponent, you'd just have to wing it. Although, that is a good suggestion for a new official SE.

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Yes, as a GM I would tend to present Special Effects just like Baragei suggests, it takes the guess work away from players new to RQ6 and don't slow the pace down.

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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Passions were already in Pendragon (Hate Saxons!). But they were d20 based, of course.

 

 

 

 

 

Interestingly at the Chaosium panel at The Kraken a few weeks ago the question about where Passions first came from came up indirectly and it was confirmed that Passions come from Pendragon - although a well know game designer mentioned that he'd seen them in the initial drafts and nicked them, so from a published game point of view, the order may be different!

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A very good reason to leave this burden to the Game Designer :)

 Spoken like a true game designer!  :D

 

The campaign I'm about to join also has a nice house rule to prevent people from using "head shot" every time. If you pick the same SE twice in a row, the defender gets a bonus because he can see it coming. Very realistic from a combat point of view, and it also forces players to be a little more creative.

How is that bonus for the defender implemented?  You don't pick your SE until after the hit, relative degrees of success, etc. have already been determined.  Or is it just a bonus to resist those SEs which are resisted?  (But, in that case, it wouldn't affect constant headshots, since Choose Location isn't resisted.)

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How is that bonus for the defender implemented?  You don't pick your SE until after the hit, relative degrees of success, etc. have already been determined.  Or is it just a bonus to resist those SEs which are resisted?  (But, in that case, it wouldn't affect constant headshots, since Choose Location isn't resisted.)

Seems like the easier solution when you have players that do nothing but target the head is to have NPCs ward that location with their shield and wear helmets. Warding that location covers "the enemy sees it coming" and doesn't rely on adding another layer of rules to keep track of. 

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I think it's more accurate to say that damage is the icing on the SE cake.

This is very true. A little while ago, Jeff Richard remarked somewhere on how RQ combat was really just a war of Hit Point attrition. That used to be the case, and still is with some d100 games, but it isn't true with the Special Effects in play. It suddenly becomes about preventing your opponent from retaliating, be it from an offensive or defensive standpoint, and the range of effects provides for many different ways of gaining this advantage. Most RQ6 fights aren't lost on Hit Points going into the negative; they're lost from combatants simply being unable to retaliate effectively - or at all.

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Seems like the easier solution when you have players that do nothing but target the head is to have NPCs ward that location with their shield and wear helmets. Warding that location covers "the enemy sees it coming" and doesn't rely on adding another layer of rules to keep track of. 

In MRQ2 we introduced a penalty to the attacker's hit roll if he or she continually chose the same Effect, thereby simulating the fact that they were at a disadvantage because they were predictable in their combat style. It's easier to do it that way, for the reasons you suggest.

Edited by lawrence.whitaker

The Design Mechanism: Publishers of Mythras

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agreed with @Baulderstone. Let the game world adapt rather than trying to enforce behaviour change through rule change. People wear helmets and use shields for good reason.

Also, use the other SEs aggressively against the players. Thing is, having a NPC hit your PC in the head is worrying but providing you have good protection the worry is over the second the damage is rolled and you still have positive hit points. Being tripped, on the other hand, causes ongoing worrying. Nothing players dread more than feeling helpless or at a disadvantage. Put them through the wringer a few times and watch their behaviour change. 

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 How is that bonus for the defender implemented?  You don't pick your SE until after the hit, relative degrees of success, etc. have already been determined.  Or is it just a bonus to resist those SEs which are resisted?  (But, in that case, it wouldn't affect constant headshots, since Choose Location isn't resisted.)

I haven't actually started playing with these guys yet. I've only read their house rules doc, which I don't have on me. And I'm pretty new to RQ6. So I may be talking out of the side of my neck a little. I believe the way it works is that the opponent gets a (smallish--10%?) bonus on his next ATTACKING roll (or maybe all subsequent attacking rolls?), and that these bonuses are cumulative if you continue to use the same SE, but they reset to zero if you use a different one. I think this is fairly realistic--when boxers, martial artists, and fencers starting using the same combinations again and again, it's easier for their opponents to see openings, time their attacks, and land a blow.

Like I said, I have not started playing with them yet, so I don't know exactly how this works, how well it works, or if it slows combat down too much with record-keeping. My guess is that it encourages the players to mix up their special effects, so that the rule never comes into play, but it still encourages creativity. 

Another thing I like about the SEs is how many non-lethal options there are. Sometimes characters aren't going to want to kill an opponent, and (I hope) the GM doesn't want to kill the characters in every combat. There's too much murder in RPGs and not enough finesse. There should be consequences down the line for killing... even wild animals and monsters may have a mate or parent who may hunt you for killing a loved one. And killing a town guard should lead to an investigation and possibly legal consequences. The SEs provide some options that are both realistic and provide alternatives to outright killing. 

And for what it's worth, I think it's more FUN to throw sand in someone's face before you decapitate them. :)

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