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Chaosium's Latest Statement on BRP


fmitchell

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Oh, wow!

Now that's a walk down amnesia lane! It had been such a desert of nothing before the rumor of a grand compendium was let slip. So exciting and then this cover, o_O; I was terrified it would be used. I hope we can look back at present days with similar wry fondness.

Cheers!

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Present home-port: home-brew BRP/OQ SRD variant; past ports-of-call: SB '81, RQIII '84, BGB '08, RQIV(Mythras) '12,  MW '15, and OQ '17

BGB BRP: 0 edition: 20/420; .pdf edition: 06/11/08; 1st edition: 06/13/08

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I want to believe.

Oh, and while we're referencing flying saucers, I think we all know that everything went wrong when they didn't use this cover...

CHA2020-REV.thumb.gif.4dca6c6925f4e106f0

What would we have called the BGB if that had actually been used?

LOL I have a certain fondness for that crazy cover we should ask Rick Meints for a limited edition of BRP with that cover! It really tells a story!

Here's my take: Private Vasquez from Alien and the half-elf Yaqui uncle of Little Red Riding Hood were exploring the Aztec ruins once visited by Signy and Cormac during the RQ3 glory days. Vasquez had recovered Signy's sword, and they were so absorbed that they both fumbled (!) their Listen and Scan check when attacked by a flying saucer directly from the 1940s. Luckily for the strange pair of heroes the green little man in the saucer had a Laser Cannon 12% skill  and failed both attack rolls abysmally. 

 

 

 

Edited by smiorgan
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Guest Vile Traveller

What happened to the big gold rulebook?

Now that RuneQuest has returned to Chaosium, the Gold Book is no longer necessary and will remain out of print.

So is BRP dead?

No! In fact, we are in the process of finishing up a new edition of the BRP core rules, called BRP Essentials. This is a 32 page booklet containing the core elements of the BRP system. Future publications will build upon those core rules and tailor them for their needs. We have several such books in development, including a hardboiled detective book (which is emphatically not Call of Cthulhu in terms of style or needed rules) and an updated version of Mythic Iceland (with a campaign pack in the works).

Okay, since several Negative Normans have decided to raise the matter in my happy thread, I thought I'd just pop in here and lay my cards on the table. I personally think BRP Essentials, based on the highly selective snippets above and other things mentioned in my happy thread, is much more likely to be based on RQ7 than the BGB. Furthermore, I would posit that it does not make any sense for it to be otherwise - from Chaosium's point of view, of course, not ours (although I note there are 4 votes for not-RQ7 and even one each for HQ and CoC7 over there, so it's not unanimous).

That doesn't mean you can stop voting for Worlds of Wonder.

I wonder when we are likely to hear  further details from the new gang - isn't there supposed to be some statement coming out of The Kraken? Although it looks like CoC and 13th Age are more of a priority for Chaosium there, our venerated Jason Durrall is also making an appearance.

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[...] I personally think BRP Essentials, based on the highly selective snippets above and other things mentioned in my happy thread, is much more likely to be based on RQ7 than the BGB. 

This. "Now, that RuneQuest is back at Chaosium the Gold Book is no longer necessary" is pretty telling. BRP Essentials will likely be a stripped down RQ6. The interesting thing is that it might turn out to be pretty close to OpenQuest and Renaissance as a result. Which would be a good thing.

The other realistic alternative is that they go the CoC7 route. But I hope they don't.

I voted WoW in the other thread, but I don't believe it will happen. I hope they will do a reprint, though.

 

 

 

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On the other hand, for exactly the same value to their business, they could take the BRP Quickstart, remove 16 pages (the exact number of pages taken up by the adventures in the back, plus the superfluous character sheets), correct a few typos, perhaps replace some of the dated art (please do this, Chaosium), and rename it BRP Essentials. The cost to do so would be minimal but not zero. 

Doing anything other than that would be an extraordinarily stupid business move. If their intention is to do away with the BRP system, why on earth would they rename the Runequest system as BRP Essentials? Why not name it Runequest Essentials: Quickstart Edition or something similar? Why announce that they're going to be coming out with new BRP materials?

Numerous people on this site have expressed skepticism that it's possible to trim the Runequest rules down to 320 pages or less. I have no doubt that it's possible to get them down to 320 pages and still include some Gloranthan material for Runequest: Adventures in Glorantha. But cutting RQ6 down to 32 pages and renaming it BRP Essentials, because why? They're crazy and evil and want to crush the dreams of BRP enthusiasts, and they're willing to spend enormous amounts of money to do so? No, I don't think so. 

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This. "Now, that RuneQuest is back at Chaosium the Gold Book is no longer necessary" is pretty telling. BRP Essentials will likely be a stripped down RQ6. The interesting thing is that it might turn out to be pretty close to OpenQuest and Renaissance as a result. Which would be a good thing.

The other realistic alternative is that they go the CoC7 route. But I hope they don't.

I voted WoW in the other thread, but I don't believe it will happen. I hope they will do a reprint, though.

 

 

 

Note: I bolded the above within the quote.  To be honest, with everything that has come out recently in terms of news or no-news, I'm not sure why more folks here have not shown some real love to these products.  It seems OpenQuest hits fantasy (and pre-gunpowder history) for all who want such things and Renaissance, which IIRC is built off of OpenQuest, seems capable of handling things gunpowder history and beyond for all who want such things.   Why not work on things with these products that are actually supported by companies interested in them?  It helps the products and it also builds up a real base that can be recommended to other folks (which isn't the situation if D100 is spread across so many books that it seems like a DC comics Multiverse situation)

Edited by Mysterioso
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So in other words, Chaosium is going to pay someone to condense a 456-page rulebook (RQ6) down to 32 pages. 

You realize how much work that is, right? Here, let me help you out...

SkillTable.thumb.JPG.d78002d40aa5a133621

No, its condensing  ~184 pages (RQ Essentials) to 32 - and 40 odd pages of that is creatures, and pretty much the full intro to the RQ6 creatures chapter. That can be flensed down to 4-8 pages... it also includes all four Cultures and 12 professions - that could easily be trimmed (for a simple introductory pamphlet) to one culture (Barbarian) and three or four professions; there are ~40 pages of Magic, all of which can be ditched... and so on.

Editing a core introductory framework for an RQ6 / RQ!7 derived BRP Essentials is easily achievable.

Cheers,

Nick

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No, its condensing  ~184 pages (RQ Essentials) to 32 - and 40 odd pages of that is creatures, and pretty much the full intro to the RQ6 creatures chapter. That can be flensed down to 4-8 pages... it also includes all four Cultures and 12 professions - that could easily be trimmed (for a simple introductory pamphlet) to one culture (Barbarian) and three or four professions; there are ~40 pages of Magic, all of which can be ditched... and so on.

Editing a core introductory framework for an RQ6 / RQ!7 derived BRP Essentials is easily achievable.

I guess they will also ditch special effects in combat and hit locations, the background events tables, maybe passions and all the advanced skills that are not in the professions they keep. On the other side they might add a 'modern' culture alongside 'barbarian' with another 3-4 professions, some modern weapons and equipment.

 

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On the other hand, for exactly the same value to their business, they could take the BRP Quickstart, remove 16 pages (the exact number of pages taken up by the adventures in the back, plus the superfluous character sheets), correct a few typos, perhaps replace some of the dated art (please do this, Chaosium), and rename it BRP Essentials. The cost to do so would be minimal but not zero. 

But it is a version of the rules that is "no longer necessary" - and does not directly underpin either their current flagship game (Call of Cthulhu 7e) nor their biggest announced new release of the next year to eighteen months - the first Chaosium controlled RuneQuest for DECADES. 

Doing anything other than that would be an extraordinarily stupid business move. If their intention is to do away with the BRP system, why on earth would they rename the Runequest system as BRP Essentials? Why not name it Runequest Essentials: Quickstart Edition or something similar? Why announce that they're going to be coming out with new BRP materials?

Because they have a relationship with at least one BRP licensee (Cubicle 7) that they do not wish to jeopardize by dropping BRP completely? Because whether they want to support the BRP RULES as they were or not, they sure as hell want to retain the BRP TRADEMARK; and having it in use on a product is by far the easiest way to do that? Because having a new BRP that is essentially RQ!7-lite increases the net pressure in the market towards their D100 rule systems; and because it makes it MUCH easier to separate licensed products from the CoC / RuneQuest IP if you have separate trademark / brand for the rule set independent of particular settings.

Numerous people on this site have expressed skepticism that it's possible to trim the Runequest rules down to 320 pages or less. I have no doubt that it's possible to get them down to 320 pages and still include some Gloranthan material for Runequest: Adventures in Glorantha. But cutting RQ6 down to 32 pages and renaming it BRP Essentials, because why? They're crazy and evil and want to crush the dreams of BRP enthusiasts, and they're willing to spend enormous amounts of money to do so? No, I don't think so. 

Hardly - they just have compelling business reasons to tighten the businesses focus onto rule systems they are most familiar with - and as of Ben's departure there is no one at Chaosium with any particular loyalty to the BRP BGB or Magic World, and the heavy lifting for the non-Call of Cthulhu rules is being outsourced to... The Design Mechanism. Who created MRQ2 and refined it as RQ6...

 Hence, the BRP BGB is "unnecessary" *shrug* its hardly a grand conspiracy or some supervillain plan. Its simply a consequence of the strategy the new management have chosen to pursue for Chaosium.

Cheers,

Nick

Edited by NickMiddleton
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This is really kind of weird.

Do people actually believe that OpenQuest, RuneQuest, Legend, Gore, etc, are not BRP just because they cannot carry the BRP logo? Yes, each of them has things that make them different, but not enough to call them a completely different system. Most of us on this forum were around during the time that Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, Elf Quest, and Ring World were all published by Chaosium and could all be found on store shelves together, and all of them had things that made them markedly different. We're they not considered BRP? I mean, there were so many differences between RuneQuest and Ring World back then, that by today's standards, you would be saying they were different systems as well. But they weren't, they were both BRP. All of them had completely different character creation systems, but they were still BRP. Seriously, every one of the "alternatives" that everyone is speculating about is as much a BRP product as the other. I don't care which system gets stripped down to 32 pages, at its core, it will still be BRP.

How could it not be?

Rod

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Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info

"D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20"

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This is really kind of weird.

Do people actually believe that OpenQuest, RuneQuest, Legend, Gore, etc, are not BRP just because they cannot carry the BRP logo? Yes, each of them has things that make them different, but not enough to call them a completely different system. Most of us on this forum were around during the time that Call of Cthulhu, RuneQuest, Elf Quest, and Ring World were all published by Chaosium and could all be found on store shelves together, and all of them had things that made them markedly different. We're they not considered BRP? I mean, there were so many differences between RuneQuest and Ring World back then, that by today's standards, you would be saying they were different systems as well. But they weren't, they were both BRP. All of them had completely different character creation systems, but they were still BRP. Seriously, every one of the "alternatives" that everyone is speculating about is as much a BRP product as the other. I don't care which system gets stripped down to 32 pages, at its core, it will still be BRP.

How could it not be?

Rod

So every edition of the D&D Players handbook describes EXACTLY the same rule system (AD&D 1e, 2e, 3e, 3.5e, all the 4e PHB's and 5e)? And there's no meaningful reason to distinguish between GURPS 4e and TFT: In the Labyrinth? : \ RuneQuest (any edition) is NOT RingWorld is not River of Heaven. Similar systems, certainly, but NOT the same.

There are a LOT of games using D100 roll under - and a lot of them have a LOT of similarities. But there are ALSO differences, non-trivial differences, between the different branches. For the most part, the degree of difference isn't insurmountable (it's not WEG Star Wars to White Wolf's Trinity, for example) - but if one prefers for example OpenQuest, then using material from for example the Worlds Beyond core book takes more effort than using material from River of Heaven.

Cheers,

Nick

Edited by NickMiddleton
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I guess they will also ditch special effects in combat and hit locations, the background events tables, maybe passions and all the advanced skills that are not in the professions they keep. On the other side they might add a 'modern' culture alongside 'barbarian' with another 3-4 professions, some modern weapons and equipment.

= a lot of work

But it is a version of the rules that is "no longer necessary"

The announcement said the BGB is no longer necessary, not that BRP or the rules system is no longer necessary. The BGB and the BRP rules system are not synonymous--BRP goes back to 1980. The BGB is a recent compilation of the rules of many different BRP-based games--Runequest 2, Call of Cthulhu, Stormbringer, and World of Wonders.  

The announcement also said that the BGB would continue to be available via print on demand.

Because they have a relationship with at least one BRP licensee (Cubicle 7) that they do not wish to jeopardize by dropping BRP completely? Because whether they want to support the BRP RULES as they were or not, they sure as hell want to retain the BRP TRADEMARK; and having it in use on a product is by far the easiest way to do that?

Maybe, but why would they go through all that work and spend all that money just to preserve the trademark and their license agreements, when they could achieve the same thing by continuing to sell the BRP Quickstart, for zero cost to the company?

Perhaps you are right, Nick, and if you are, I will graciously--and with a great deal of sadness--admit I was wrong. Certainly, the loss of Ben and the Alephtar license were huge blows. But I remain hopeful.

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Perhaps you are right, Nick, and if you are, I will graciously--and with a great deal of sadness--admit I was wrong. Certainly, the loss of Ben and the Alephtar license were huge blows. But I remain hopeful.

Likewise, I'll be ecstatic if you are correct and I'm proved wrong and BRP Essentials is simply a tidied up and trimmed version of the current BRP Quickstart. But I remain pessimistic#. ;)

Cheers,

Nick

# in the sense that what I think is the likely outcome is not my personally preferred one, just to be clear.

 

Edited by NickMiddleton
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RuneQuest (any edition) is NOT RingWorld is not River of Heaven. Similar systems, certainly, but NOT the same.

Not my point at all, my point was that they were different, but were still BRP. What makes Magic World a BRP game and OpenQuest not, the fact that OpenQuest uses some terms and rules that are new to BRP? Every iteration of a BRP game that has come out in the past has added something new to the rules as previously established. How is this any different? My point is that no matter what ends up being used, it will still be BRP.

Rod

Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info

"D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20"

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Not my point at all, my point was that they were different, but were still BRP. What makes Magic World a BRP game and OpenQuest not, the fact that OpenQuest uses some terms and rules that are new to BRP? Every iteration of a BRP game that has come out in the past has added something new to the rules as previously established. How is this any different? My point is that no matter what ends up being used, it will still be BRP.

Rod

I agree, to me they are all BRP. And I am (unfortunately!) old enough to remember when Chaosium published a host of similar but not exactly compatible BRP games. Of course your inclusiveness may vary. To some Pendragon is a BRP game, and I'd tend to agree. I'd go even to the point of saying that the original Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is a clear relative of BRP. So, there are degrees of similarity and one can have preferences.

 Yet, with the new management there is a clear change of direction in terms of rules and publication strategy.

- The more "traditional" incarnations of d100 on the market - MW and BGB - have been sidelined.

- Also, the idea of a GURPS-like corebook with supplements has been ditched. Future BRP games, like Mythic Iceland, will be self-contained, it seems.

Some, like Nick, strongly dislike this development. I'm more on the fence I must say. For the moment the change seems a mixed blessing.

  

 

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There's definitely two thoughts to this.  I firmly fall into the party of 'it's all BRP, doesn't matter what it was called to begin with.'  Runequest and Ring World and River of Heaven and Stormbringer 1st and Elf Quest and all that other stuff are flavors of BRP.  RuneQuest is not Elf Quest is not Stormbringer but all of them are BRP.

I have come to understand that this is not universally accepted but it's how I process the whole thing.

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70/420

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Yes, that is how I think of them too. And the more you strip away from them, the more similar they get. At 30+ pages I believe it might even be hard to tell them apart; or if they took the best parts from each and found a middle road. 

1683589267_frostbyteloggaFsvarttiny2.jpg.22ebd7480630737e74be9c2c9ed8039f.jpg   FrostByte Books

M–SPACE   d100 Roleplaying in the Far Future

Odd Soot  Science Fiction Mystery in the 1920s

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Guest Vile Traveller

If you can strip down BRP Quickstart to 32 pages it's certainly possible to strip down RQ Essentials to 32 pages. They probably wouldn't look all that different.

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Guest Vile Traveller

Do people actually believe that OpenQuest, RuneQuest, Legend, Gore, etc, are not BRP just because they cannot carry the BRP logo?

I actually think of them as versions of RuneQuest rather than BRP, myself. ;)

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While we work on our detailed plans for how we support the "BRP" line of products going forward, please let me state that when we were talking about "BRP" in our initial statement we did not omit Magic World on purpose. We were speaking about BRP in general. Just like the BGB, we intend to have Magic World, Advanced Sorcery, Enlightened Magic, and most other BRP titles all live on via drivethrurpg and lulu as POD and PDF once the current stock of paper copies has sold out. You may notice that most of the titles are still sold on our website. They are available to distributors if game stores want to buy them. If we have the rights to keep selling it, we will keep selling it as POD and PDF, bare minimum. If we do not mention title X it is probably because we are trying to keep our message "short and sweet" and not because we have declared it dead and never want it mentioned again. I say "most other BRP titles" in a previous sentence because we are having to very carefully check each product to actually make sure we have the right to sell it, which is sometimes more time consuming than we wish. Each monograph deal (with the author/authors) in particular is not always as simple and straight-forward as you might think. 

Hang in there. Hope that helps a little.

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Hope that Helps,
Rick Meints - Chaosium, Inc.

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