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Chaosium's Latest Statement on BRP


fmitchell

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There's definitely two thoughts to this.  I firmly fall into the party of 'it's all BRP, doesn't matter what it was called to begin with.'  Runequest and Ring World and River of Heaven and Stormbringer 1st and Elf Quest and all that other stuff are flavors of BRP.  RuneQuest is not Elf Quest is not Stormbringer but all of them are BRP.

I have come to understand that this is not universally accepted but it's how I process the whole thing.

I think they are all d100, but not all BRP. BRP is a Chaosium system that has never been opened up.

All the others are derived from mRQ, and the mRQ SRD, which was a re-write with... what was the quote "Similar system with different words"?? Nick, help me out here.

In fact, mRQ was designed to be in direct competition with Chaosiums BRP derived games. A from the ground re-write to make sure the systems were similar, but didn't step on Chaosiums IP. Remember, BRP/RQ3 were in publication at the time as the 3 reprinted Basic Roleplaying books.

So while certainly inspired by, there is no direct descent from BRP.

SDLeary

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Guest Vile Traveller

Just kidding with that question mark, Loz. You've got to speculate to proliferate. ;)

Rick, I don't think anyone is suggesting that BRP or MW might disappear completely in this age of PDF and PoD. The main question now (which isn't answered in your post) is what the new BRP Essentials will be distilled from. Anything you can add on that front?

Oh, and my main question is: when will we see Worlds of Wonder making a comeback, and in what form! Okay, that's two questions. :D

Edited by Vile
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While we work on our detailed plans for how we support the "BRP" line of products going forward, please let me state that when we were talking about "BRP" in our initial statement we did not omit Magic World on purpose. We were speaking about BRP in general. Just like the BGB, we intend to have Magic World, Advanced Sorcery, Enlightened Magic, and most other BRP titles all live on via drivethrurpg and lulu as POD and PDF once the current stock of paper copies has sold out. You may notice that most of the titles are still sold on our website. They are available to distributors if game stores want to buy them. If we have the rights to keep selling it, we will keep selling it as POD and PDF, bare minimum. If we do not mention title X it is probably because we are trying to keep our message "short and sweet" and not because we have declared it dead and never want it mentioned again. I say "most other BRP titles" in a previous sentence because we are having to very carefully check each product to actually make sure we have the right to sell it, which is sometimes more time consuming than we wish. Each monograph deal (with the author/authors) in particular is not always as simple and straight-forward as you might think. 

Hang in there. Hope that helps a little.

Well said Rick and thanks for your clarification. I hope the Kraken sessions went well :)

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While we work on our detailed plans for how we support the "BRP" line of products going forward, please let me state that when we were talking about "BRP" in our initial statement...we did not omit Magic World on purpose. We were speaking about BRP in general.

...we intend to have Magic World, Advanced Sorcery, Enlightened Magic, and most other BRP titles all live on via drivethrurpg and lulu as POD and PDF... 

If we have the rights to keep selling it, we will keep selling it as POD and PDF...

If we do not mention title X it is...not because we have declared it dead and never want it mentioned again.

...we are having to very carefully check each product to actually make sure we have the right to sell it...

Hang in there.

Thanks for the communique, Rick. Please keep 'em comin'!

Cheers!

Present home-port: home-brew BRP/OQ SRD variant; past ports-of-call: SB '81, RQIII '84, BGB '08, RQIV(Mythras) '12,  MW '15, and OQ '17

BGB BRP: 0 edition: 20/420; .pdf edition: 06/11/08; 1st edition: 06/13/08

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I think they are all d100, but not all BRP. BRP is a Chaosium system that has never been opened up.

All the others are derived from mRQ, and the mRQ SRD, which was a re-write with... what was the quote "Similar system with different words"?? Nick, help me out here.

In fact, mRQ was designed to be in direct competition with Chaosiums BRP derived games. A from the ground re-write to make sure the systems were similar, but didn't step on Chaosiums IP. Remember, BRP/RQ3 were in publication at the time as the 3 reprinted Basic Roleplaying books.

So while certainly inspired by, there is no direct descent from BRP.

SDLeary

This.

The EXACT phrase was "the same system but not the same copyrighted words" (my emphasis). Bear in mind that both  Issaries Inc AND Chaosium had tried to register the RuneQuest trademark when they discovered Hasbro regarded it as lapsed...

And note I've never disputed that there is a broad family of D100, roll under games that resemble each other and which one can adapt rules between. But equally I think there are sensible reasons to keep the distinctions between the different strands clear. It makes discussion clearer IMO.

cheers,

Nick

 

 

Edited by NickMiddleton
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Thanks to those comments by Rick and Loz, my feelings about BRP's future are reassured. If I could just find out how they intend to move forward with RuneQuest, post the Chaosium edition but also in relation to my current RQ6 materials (and the stuff still to arrive over the next year) then I'd be assured for that too. I know the system is essentially unchanged, but the magic will be more specific to Glorantha and the whole layout design and content remain a mystery, as does how Loz and Pete will be employed in the future to create Gloranthan and non-Glorathan supplements. One of my big hopes for RQ6 was a series of Mythic Historic books, like Mythic Britain or Mythic Greece. I wish I knew whether that is on or off the cards now.

That said, I just bought a POD of King Arthur Pendragon 5.1 edition and The Great Pendragon Campaign (having sold on my original copies before emigrating about 8 years ago, much to my regret since). I then went on to the Nocturnal forum only to find that they're now considering a 6th Edition Pendragon.

I'm a sap.

 

 

 

 

Edited by TrippyHippy
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While we work on our detailed plans for how we support the "BRP" line of products going forward, please let me state that when we were talking about "BRP" in our initial statement we did not omit Magic World on purpose. We were speaking about BRP in general. Just like the BGB, we intend to have Magic WorldAdvanced SorceryEnlightened Magic, and most other BRP titles all live on via drivethrurpg and lulu as POD and PDF once the current stock of paper copies has sold out. You may notice that most of the titles are still sold on our website. They are available to distributors if game stores want to buy them. If we have the rights to keep selling it, we will keep selling it as POD and PDF, bare minimum. If we do not mention title X it is probably because we are trying to keep our message "short and sweet" and not because we have declared it dead and never want it mentioned again. I say "most other BRP titles" in a previous sentence because we are having to very carefully check each product to actually make sure we have the right to sell it, which is sometimes more time consuming than we wish. Each monograph deal (with the author/authors) in particular is not always as simple and straight-forward as you might think. 

That's great to hear Rick. I await more detailed information (such as which rule set BRP Essentials is derived from; the fate of the as yet unpublished Magic World supplements, and the fate of the various monographs) with interest.

I remain mildly puzzled as to why some version of the above paragraph couldn't have been disseminated at the same time as the "announcement" that the previous BRP / MW line editor had been let go, and as to why occasional postings on Google+ threads, Facebook and forums are being used to make such announcements, rather than the company Web site. To the extent there is uncertainty about the future, at least some of that could have been headed off by clearer statements from a defined source in my opinion.

In any event, I hope Kraken went well!

Cheers,

Nick

Edited by NickMiddleton
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If you can strip down BRP Quickstart to 32 pages it's certainly possible to strip down RQ Essentials to 32 pages. They probably wouldn't look all that different.

I don't think anyone is disputing that it's possible, given enough man-hours put into it.  But one of them would take a good deal more effort than the other, so it seems reasonable to assume that they'll take the (much) easier path.

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This.

The EXACT phrase was "the same system but not the same copyrighted words" (my emphasis). Bear in mind that both  Issaries Inc AND Chaosium had tried to register the RuneQuest trademark when they discovered Hasbro regarded it as lapsed...

And note I've never disputed that there is a broad family of D100, roll under games that resemble each other and which one can adapt rules between. But equally I think there are sensible reasons to keep the distinctions between the different strands clear. It makes discussion clearer IMO.

cheers,

Nick

 

 

This was my point all along. That there are legal reasons that these other systems cannot be called BRP, but are pretty much the same system.

Rod

Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info

"D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20"

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I don't think anyone is disputing that it's possible, given enough man-hours put into it.  But one of them would take a good deal more effort than the other, so it seems reasonable to assume that they'll take the (much) easier path.

What we're talking about here is essentially (!) an executive summary of the book, so it's not so much a question of which pages you strip out as picking (to put it simplistically, I know) 32 pages to keep. If you've ever had to suffer the soul-crushing, creativity-detroying, mind-numbing tedium write executive summaries you'll know that's not a whole lot of work. More if you start with a big book than a small book, of course, but you have to consider the other side of the tunnel - with BGB BRP you have a different system to Chaosium RuneQuest, so the games you base off it will be less compatible with Chaosium RuneQuest publications than if you'd started with Chaosium RuneQuest. That little book represents a big investment in the future, so the writing hours are likely to be a trivial consideration in the grand scheme of things.

What I'm sayings is that if I were Chaosium, and I'd made the terrible decision to re-work RQ6 into Chaosium RuneQuest, I'd dump BRP like a cooling and now slightly wrinkly potato and go with my shiny new not-quite-flagship system (after CoC7 and maybe HQ and 13th Age). :P

Of course, the Chaosium could put the whole matter to rest with one simple post ... ;)

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That's great to hear Rick. I await more detailed information (such as which rule set BRP Essentials is derived from; the fate of the as yet unpublished Magic World supplements, and the fate of the various monographs) with interest.

I remain mildly puzzled as to why some version of the above paragraph couldn't have been disseminated at the same time as the "announcement" that the previous BRP / MW line editor had been let go, and as to why occasional postings on Google+ threads, Facebook and forums are being used to make such announcements, rather than the company Web site. To the extent there is uncertainty about the future, at least some of that could have been headed off by clearer statements from a defined source in my opinion.

In any event, I hope Kraken went well!

Cheers,

Nick

Alas, I don't read this forum every day. I usually cruise through a few forums on the weekend to see what's being discussed and sometimes something catches my eye, like 5 pages of this discussion. I didn't attend Kraken, so that gave me a bit more time this specific weekend. When we do post announcements, we try to be thorough, not create confusion. I respect that many of you are keen to know exactly what we are planning, and want loads of detail, but we don't have that to provide right now. The Chaosium website, since you mentioned it, was not set up to hold discussions, thus we use social media.  

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Hope that Helps,
Rick Meints - Chaosium, Inc.

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The Chaosium website, since you mentioned it, was not set up to hold discussions, thus we use social media.  

Very true, but it does have its Blog section, that has been used as a place for announcements for some time. Many of us in the Chaosium world have become used to looking there. 

And thanks for shedding more light on whats going on. 

SDLeary

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I respect that many of you are keen to know exactly what we are planning, and want loads of detail, but we don't have that to provide right now. 

Well chaps, I guess it's back to waitin' and speculatin'. :)

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Alas, I don't read this forum every day. I usually cruise through a few forums on the weekend to see what's being discussed and sometimes something catches my eye, like 5 pages of this discussion. I didn't attend Kraken, so that gave me a bit more time this specific weekend. When we do post announcements, we try to be thorough, not create confusion. I respect that many of you are keen to know exactly what we are planning, and want loads of detail, but we don't have that to provide right now. The Chaosium website, since you mentioned it, was not set up to hold discussions, thus we use social media.  

Rick, having you reading the forums from time to time and posting here is already quite something.

 

However, I dare to suggest you to hold a Q&A session on these boards about what's happening at Chaosium in the not too distant future. That would be really great. And I don't mean only BRP, but the more general plans. What kind of company we can expect Chaosium to become.

That would be great. We are all passionate but also quite a polite and friendly bunch...

Smiorgan

 

 

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I respect that many of you are keen to know exactly what we are planning, and want loads of detail, but we don't have that to provide right now.

Thanks for your replies.  The sentence quoted above is why I think all this fear, uncertainty, and doubt is unwarranted.  The new Chaosium is still trying to figure out what they can do as well as what they want to do.  They don't want to make any statements they have to walk back later ... especially since we nerds tend to take the statements they do make and conjure nightmare scenarios with them.

As somebody (besides me) said upthread, RQ6/BRP/CoC7 are basically the same framework with different details.  (Yes, even CoC7; why record INT 13 and Idea 65% if you'll mostly need the 65%?)  Theoretically you can house-rule one into the other with relatively little difficulty: Regular/Critical Success vs. Regular/Special/Critical Success vs. Average/Hard/Extreme/Critical Success, Luck based on POW vs Luck as an independent characteristic, skill checks for every skill used vs. a few per adventure, Magic Points vs. a MAG score and fatigue levels, etc.  The major virtue of d100 games is that you can add or remove most elements without breaking the system (even the d100 part, as Pendragon demonstrated).

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Frank

"Welcome to the hottest and fastest-growing hobby of, er, 1977." -- The Laundry RPG
 
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My feeling is, currently, that the games will flourish if each of them has a clear direction and people can just settle into long term support (or not as is their choice).

Having RuneQuest re-married to the Glorantha setting makes absolute sense, considering it's history....but that aspect has been confused since, well RuneQuest 3 back in the 80s and it's use as a generic ruleset since. 

Having BRP return as a simple booklet that acts as a gatekeeper to any number of settings and supplements, in the spirit of Worlds of Wonder, makes absolute sense....but that aspect has been confused over the various spins of BRP-esque systems out there that don't necessarily correspond to that exact ruleset and whose licensing arrangements go in and out of favour.

The trouble is that there has been a lot of confusion in the past few years over the whole direction of Chaosium and ex-Chaosium games. This is why people are confused going into the future too. Really what all these lines need is some stability. That is what will bring confidence back to the Chaosium customer.

 

 

 

 

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I actually welcome this. The so called "Gold Book" was - in my taste - way too big and something I get lost in quite easily. To have a basic booklet with the most fundamental rules and yet a new and modern looking one is interesting, as one (both as player and GM) can build on them much more easily with house rules and/or own settings rules.

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"I intend to live forever, or die trying" - Groucho Marx

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Having just returned from The Kraken I've put the washing machine on so I have some clean clothes and skimmed over this thread.

I can tell you from speaking with  the horse's mouth that most of the speculation that fills this thread is just so much pie in the sky crap.

Chaosium's primary task through the end of 2015 is to get the 800lb albatross that is the 7e KS out  The layout fiasco's have finally been laid to rest and the Chinese printers have sent proofs for approval. The books will now fit in the slipcase for example. The guys are setting up worldwide international fulfillment/distribution points for that and also for future product (mention was made of the issues of dealing with VAT/TVA for European distribution by a (very small) US corporation as part of that discussion). My guess is late 2015 or early 2016 for 7e in distribution if they are approving proofs now (that's my best guess not Chaosium's)

Knowing how you folks love your MW I specifically brought that topic up in at least a couple of seminars. The answer were consistent - everything is on the back burner until 7e CoC KS is cleared. A BRP booklet is going to be the way forward for the BRP line rather than the weighty tome of 4e. There is a backlog of material that is likely to see the light of day in one form or another. BRP is not going to be RQ it's going to be small, cheap (or free) booklet that is basic.No-one from TDM was present so I couldn't get a great deal of information on their direction but there was no indication that the spin offs like CF and Luther Arkwright will not continue (although I pressed the question about a non-RQ branded Loz and Pete D100 based rules only book continuing I couldn't get an answer, that will have to come from TDM). A new version of Mythic Iceland will be coming with the rules included (the basic BRP (32) pages) to make it the game complete and stand-alone. That seems to be the route the Chaosium guys are now taking for a lot of licensees.

The new Chaosium folks are much more savvy when it comes to ways fo getting product into your hands. We talked of free or small dollar amount PDF's plus POD to avoid the shipping issue many of us have. I pushed the subject of better tie-ins to VTT's (including FG getting an update to 7e). I suggested that free or low dollar amount packs of maps and handouts that can be used for on-line gaming by folks who only have hard copy and the team noted that down for something in the future.

We can expect to see much more from the Chaosium team on various forms of social media as the nature of Chaosium's web site is not the best option for discussion and the time and expense that it would take to do another revamp was not (like many other things very high on the schedule. Th.e guys are very big users of G+ and we can probably expect to see more there.

There was a lot more talked about and some under a secret oath (and I don't want to find something nasty at the foot of my bed tonight). If you get teh chance try and make it to a Kraken as it's a fantastic experience and talking and playing with game authors is big part of that. Ken (Ralston) told me over breakfast yesterday that he was bursting with creative energy after the weekend playing and discussing games.

BTW we can expect more information from Chaosium next week after/during the Essen Game Fair

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Nigel

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I can tell you from speaking with  the horse's mouth that most of the speculation that fills this thread is just so much pie in the sky crap.

Thanks for your report and friendly attitude. Apart the "crap" comment what you say seems pretty consistent with the picture that was emerging.

 

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Telling folks won't stop them posting passive-aggressive negative material that doesn't help a struggling company get back on an even keel does it.

 

The internet never lets truth get in the way of a good post that keeps a thread at the top of the list.

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Nigel

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Also just back from Kraken and attended the same seminar as nclarke.

  • CoC7thE has had priority, but seems to be resolving now. Much other CoC material is ready in the pipeline, waiting for 7E to come out.
  • UK printer for fulfillment of European orders is coming, which means less shipping cost for us outside the US. 
  • "RuneQuest" will be a slimmed down rule- and settingbook for Glorantha, with gloranthan cults and other stuff following.
  • There will be no big generic rulebook except for the Golden Book available on pdf and print-on-demand.
  • 32-page core rules will be based on RuneQuest 6 and they want new settings to be self-contained with the rules.
  • Mythic Iceland 2nd Edition will be re-released as a stand-alone book with the rules included and a campaign book is being prepared for the setting.
  • BRP licenses will continue.
  • Old RuneQuest 2 will be put back in print!
  • Magic World will unfortunately not be prioritized now.

 

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Ef plest master, this mighty fine grub!
b1.gif 116/420. High Priest.

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On a total, I think the changes that have happened at Chaosium is for the good. I'm sad to see Ben leave and Magic World being downprioritized. I also think it would be good to have a printed book of generic rules. But that said, I think the company and its d100 games have a much brighter future now than it had before.

Edited by Trifletraxor
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Ef plest master, this mighty fine grub!
b1.gif 116/420. High Priest.

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