I wish for BRP Essentials to be ...

[Simlasa]

Using CoC 7e as the base would be a sure-fire guarantee of me not buying it. I still see it as a move away from the strengths of BRP (and horror gaming specifically) and toward stuff other games are already top dogs on. If I want to play a game with that flavor I'd just go for Savage Worlds.

I voted for BRP-based... which ain't gonna happen... but basing it on RQ2 wouldn't put me off.

[Archivist]

Why don't we like CoC 7e. It seems fine to me.

[g33k]

I think the "HERO" system hit the "generic power, described with trappings" target first.  I would look to them, and/or maybe GURPS (and SW, as noted) as models.

One of the first things I would notice in these models is that tweaking and "balancing" a generic powers system is very very very hard to do; it's at the core of most of the new versions of HERO at least, and I presume GUPRS has a similar issue.  I don't think Chaosium should go down this particular rabbit hole... HERO & GURPS got there first, and have MUCH bigger warrens already dug... and the fan-base is STILL not satified...

HOWEVER -- if it goes that way -- I am going to point back up to my prior post, suggesting a very-slim "BRP Core" volume + a BGB-style "BRP Options".  A system like this (that is, "generic power, with trappings") clearly belongs in the "Options" book:  it will take FAR too long to describe all the options for all different powers, set withing all the classic RPG-tropes.  The "Core" book needs to be slim, simple, and inexpensive ... a cheap and EASY entree into BRP !

What the "Core" book should have is a magic system, a flintlock pistol & musket, civil-war/victoriana derringer/pistol/rifle, modern light/medium/heavy pistols, "hunting" & "sniper" rifles, shotgun, small & large assault rifle, and probably 8-10 sci-fi weapons (also, comparable armors!) -- enough to begin play in any era, but NO MORE THAN THAT.  All those things in "Core" would be built according to the "Powers" system in the "Options" book.

"Options" then would have several further "example" magic-systems, many specific weapons, etc... all used as exemplars of "how to" for the generic system, but ALSO summarized in their respective lists/tables for quick&easy use-in-play.

[g33k]

14 minutes ago, Archivist said:

Why don't we like CoC 7e. It seems fine to me.

It's too-different from "generic" BRP/d100, as published in so many different editions/titles/publishers/etc.  One of the great assets of the BRP mechanic is just grabbing a 30-year-old supplement/setting, a 15-year-old adventure/module, and a 3-year-old rulebook... roll characters and BAM, you're playing.

[K Peterson]

1 hour ago, Archivist said:

Why don't we like CoC 7e. It seems fine to me.

Opinions differ. That's all.

Based on many posts I've seen on these forums I would have expected CoC7e to get more votes in this poll. But this thread was started more than a year ago, so perhaps that's a factor.

[Mankcam]

.

 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Mankcam

[Mankcam]

13 hours ago, RosenMcStern said:

15 - 20 powers? You are an optimist, Cameron. Revolution has 47 generic powers, and they cover the bare minimum, not even including rituals like warding, summoning and create familiar.

Ok, maybe you might strip the list down to 30, but rest assured that 15-20 will not cover the basic set that lets you design "everything you want".

And needless to say, I agree that it could be a good idea.

Heh heh yes ever the mediator and optimist

I was considering 15-20 Powers for a primer rule set approach, if Powers are to be included. Its debatable if a primer rule set actually should have Powers in the first place.

For a more weighty  and worthwhile generic rulebook  you would probably need to at least double or triple that.

Which is the kind of thing you are busy working on Paolo 

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by Mankcam

[Mugen]

20 hours ago, RosenMcStern said:

15 - 20 powers? You are an optimist, Cameron. Revolution has 47 generic powers, and they cover the bare minimum, not even including rituals like warding, summoning and create familiar.

Ok, maybe you might strip the list down to 30, but rest assured that 15-20 will not cover the basic set that lets you design "everything you want".

And needless to say, I agree that it could be a good idea.

Sure, but as for myself, I don't think an "Essentials" ruleset need to cover every possible needs.

I think the list I made above would be sufficient in this kind of product.

[Mankcam]

I think I would be happy if the BRP Essientials is built from either CoC 7E or CRQ4 (RQ7), even if it's a slimmed down or primer version of the core mechanics. I'm not fussed either way.

The main thing is to have some consistency, rather than have three distinct D100 systems under the one company.

A lot of the hard work has already been done for CoC 7E with the Cthulhu Thru The Ages booklet, so some of this could easily be rehashed for a generic BRP rule set built of the CoC 7E engine.

But at the end of the day I would be just as happy if RQ is used for the core engine, although I suspect that this will take much more work.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Mankcam

[RosenMcStern]

26 minutes ago, Mugen said:

I think the list I made above would be sufficient in this kind of product.

We risk to go off-topic here, but...

The original "Basic Roleplaying" booklet had one specific meaning. It represented the "minimal common core" that all Chaosium products used (well, all except RuneQuest, which came before), building from there to create a genre-specific or setting-specific ruleset. As such, it made sense that it did not contain powers or magic of any kind.

Mythras Imperative, although somehow already enough to play a Conan-style fantasy where PCs have no magic, fits more or less the same niche. It is something you build upon to create your game, with a good 70-80% of the rules not present in the core (see M-Space).

If BRP Essentials is to appear as a "slim but playable" ruleset, à la OpenQuest, then it should contain a maybe-not-very-developed but complete power system to let you play magic users, clerics and supers. If you leave out something as popular and important as, say, Invisibility and Shapechange, then the system is not really usable out of the box.

Honestly, I do not see any utility in a game with a half-baked power system. Either it is a starting point, in which case you do not need any magics, or it is usable, in which case you need the real thing, not a reduced sample. Chaosium might beg to differ, of course.

3 minutes ago, Mankcam said:

But at the end of the day I would be just as happy if RQ is used for the core engine, although I suspect that his will take much more work.

I think we will know the answer when the new Mythic Iceland is released. And I suspect it will be RQ2 adapted for Vikings. And much more materials for this has appeared over the years than it has for CoC7.

[Mankcam]

23 minutes ago, RosenMcStern said:

I think we will know the answer when the new Mythic Iceland is released. And I suspect it will be RQ2 adapted for Vikings. And much more materials for this has appeared over the years than it has for CoC7.

I suspect you are right, especially given that the gritty tactile nature of the setting would be better portrayed with the RQ rules as opposed to the CoC rules. 

However the only thing that potentially throws the cat amongst the pigeons is that Mythic Iceland has already been briefly presented as a potential setting for CoC 7E in the Cthulhu Thru The Ages book.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it goes 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by Mankcam

[Akerbakk]

On 10/12/2016 at 9:27 AM, ColinBrett said:

I know this has been discussed at length but would it be possible for the essentials to include "generic powers", rather than specifics (magic, sorcery, mutations) in an Essentials book? After all, a "Magic Missile" spell can have the same effect as "Laser Vision" but listed in the rules as "Focussed Energy Attack" (which is distinct from a "Fireball" spell versus "Power Blast", described as an "Area Energy Attack"). The players can choose a power and a suitably descriptive name.

Savage Worlds does this sort of thing but I truly don't know how well it works in-game and between different genres. It just seem to me that a "generic assault rifle" is just as Essential as a generic "Multi-shot Energy Attack" power.

All that slurred (hic), I'll still have the BGB as my go-to system.

Colin 

I agree. That's why I wrote up Unified Powers. Check out the doc and see if it helps.

 

[colinabrett]

14 hours ago, Akerbakk said:

I agree. That's why I wrote up Unified Powers. Check out the doc and see if it helps.

 

Thanks for that Akerbakk. I've downloaded your document and will give it a read over soon.

Colin

[colinabrett]

I've been thinking about this whole topic and have come to the conclusion that, for me, it doesn't make much difference what BRP Essentials will or will not contain. I'll buy the rulebook anyway and any support material Chaosium produces. I suppose this shows "brand loyalty", both to Chaosium and BRP in general. While I salute the work done for Mythras, Revolution D100, OpenQuest and the wider family, none of these really scratch the "BRP itch" in the way the BGB did.

Colin

[jux]

On 10/16/2016 at 8:24 AM, ColinBrett said:

I've been thinking about this whole topic and have come to the conclusion that, for me, it doesn't make much difference what BRP Essentials will or will not contain. I'll buy the rulebook anyway and any support material Chaosium produces. I suppose this shows "brand loyalty", both to Chaosium and BRP in general. While I salute the work done for Mythras, Revolution D100, OpenQuest and the wider family, none of these really scratch the "BRP itch" in the way the BGB did.

Colin

My loyalty must be earned. So much competition out there.

[colinabrett]

2 hours ago, jux said:

My loyalty must be earned. So much competition out there.

A fair point, Jux. I suppose my loyalty was bought years ago! 

[Simlasa]

2 hours ago, ColinBrett said:

A fair point, Jux. I suppose my loyalty was bought years ago! 

I HAD loyalty to Chaosium for years and years... but it's all used up of late and I'm done with buying stuff based on sentimentality.

Not that I'm angry, I just see their business interests diverging sharply from my gaming interests. Oh well. After The Vampire Wars is probably my last purchase from them for a while.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Simlasa

[Questbird]

6 hours ago, Simlasa said:

I HAD loyalty to Chaosium for years and years... but it's all used up of late and I'm done with buying stuff based on sentimentality.

Not that I'm angry, I just see their business interests diverging sharply from my gaming interests. Oh well. After The Vampire Wars is probably my last purchase from them for a while.

I'm glad that I was able to acquire quite a few of the monographs for BRP in one format or another, which were generally of high quality and which together make up quite a useful 'BRP toolkit' for different genres. It's also true for me that Runequest and specifically Glorantha aren't what I'm after in my games. I miss BRP now it's gone, but I have enough material to keep on playing. My goto Chaosium game is still Elric!, long out-of-print and out-of-support, but a classic nonetheless.

[Gollum]

14 hours ago, ColinBrett said:

A fair point, Jux. I suppose my loyalty was bought years ago! 

To be frank, mine tend toward erosion with time. Waiting for a new version of the game which will change things without knowing how nor how much ... for months and months ... make me consider more and more what other publishers offer.

This thread began more than one year ago. And we still don't know anything about the future BRP Essentials.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Gollum

[Guest Vile Traveller]

14 minutes ago, Gollum said:

This thread began more than one year ago. And we still don't know anything about the future BRP Essentials.

Blimey - it has been a while, hasn't it?

Edited October 18, 2016 by Vile

[fulk]

Personally, I'm pretty happy with the BGB.  I mean, it has just about everything with multiple levels of complexity.  Keep it in print even if just POD. 

However, if Essentials is supposed to be a stripped down version, then I'd vote for something more along the lines of Dark Ages Cthuhlu w/o hit locations, only one weapon skill (no attack and parry) etc.  Something simple.  Perhaps one magic system or unified powers type system.

Focusing on Glorantha is great, but I would hate to see BRP disappear because it is so useful for so many genre.  I wouldn't mind the addition of for 'Talents'-like mechanic to help make characters a bit more unique.  Aside from that and a few pet peeves about weapon damage, that is about it. 

[g33k]

12 hours ago, Gollum said:

To be frank, mine tend toward erosion with time. Waiting for a new version of the game which will change things without knowing how nor how much ... for months and months ... make me consider more and more what other publishers offer.

Isn't this just how things work?  I mean, they (and by "they" I mean RPG-publishers in general, not Chaosium in particular (though I believe Chaosium is smack-dab typical here, so I think it applies entirely)) could say nothing for the months of time it takes to get a proposal whipped into shape, the months more -- maybe even a year? -- it takes it to get written; then (hopefully) playtested, and enter layout.  There's also artwork, happening partly in parallel but often (from what I've seen multiple publishers disclose) adding further delays.  Then galley proofs, possible revisions/corrections, and FINALLY they are ready to approve the initial print-run.

At this point, it's (probably) 2-3 months before it hits the shelves at FLGS's, ships via Amazon deliveries, etc (mind you, there ARE still delays that could happen in the production/shipping pipeline -- entirely outside the publisher's control! -- so "2-3 months" is a "most-likely" not a "sure thing" timeline!).  If I understand correctly, you are saying you don't want to hear about an unavailable project at any point until this one???

Or maybe step back another 2-3 months, to when most of the playtest has been completed and the text/rules of the game is 99% complete?  But it's still a LONG time from hitting the shelves...

12 hours ago, Gollum said:

This thread began more than one year ago. And we still don't know anything about the future BRP Essentials.

Actually, we DO know quite a bit, if you have followed hints & teasers in various threads... I'll see if I can go dig up some of the references...

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Isn't this just how things work?

Not really. At least, I know that creating a new game or even a revised edition of a previous one take time. A lot of time. No problem with that. But, usually, announcements are done once a lot of things are already decided. At minimum when the publisher know what he will do enough to tell it to his future buyers. And publishers rarely make buyers wait one year without the least hint, especially when the previous edition is still sold.

Who will buy the old version, the big golden book, knowing that a new one will appear ... Sooner or later? - We don't even have the least hint about the launch. It can be tomorrow, next month, or next year. Perhaps even later.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Gollum

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Actually, we DO know quite a bit, if you have followed hints & teasers in various threads... I'll see if I can go dig up some of the references...

Sorry, but we don't know anything. I followed all the threads about this topic very attentively and all we have are conjectures. We have read only two official announces:

1) BRP Essentials will be a 32 pages book.

It sounds to be wrong now. Some talk about something much more important ...

2) The first incarnation of BRP Essentials will be the new edition of Mythic Island.

Which also sounds to be wrong now. Mythic Island will eventually be a blend of BRP and RuneQuest (as far as I understood things).

We don't even know what direction will take BRP Essentials. A revision of the big golden book? Runequest? Call of Cthulhu 7? Something new?

Authors and Chaosium remain silent.

Brief, we don't have the least clue. No publication date, no number of pages, and not the least hint about what it will be. After more than one year of waiting ...

It's not really a good thing, because most BRP buyers surely wait before going on buying BRP products. At least, I do. When you know that a revised edition will come, you wait before buying supplements because they will surely be revised too. At least, you hope it ... Once the new edition will be published ... One day ... Maybe ...

Edited October 18, 2016 by Gollum

[Simlasa]

33 minutes ago, Gollum said:

It's not really a good thing, because most BRP buyers surely wait before going on buying BRP products. At least, I do. When you know that a revised edition will come, you wait before buying supplements because they will surely be revised too. At least, you hope it ... Once the new edition will be published ... One day ... Maybe ...

Naw... having no confidence in what's coming down the pipe from Chaosium I'm just laying in for a long winter. Buying up whatever BRP/BGB related stuff I'd missed... hunting down xtra hardcopies of the BGB... and cozying up to Openquest and Mythras. There is loads of great stuff for not-Chaosium BRP coming out.

Whatever happens, I'll have plenty of stuff to read/play.