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Iskallor

Prax and the thousand questions about the place.

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14 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

A tentative comment: total calories may be important as well: Tusker lard is probably going to go further than ostrich meat (which, if like chicken, has about 2/3rds the calories), even more than weight would indicate. Pork and beef have a similar number of calories; mutton has more calories than either (250 versus 200 than beef for 3 oz. of meat).

True, but I'm wary of going into too much detail, as Gloranthans won't consider calories, vitamins and trace elements, all of which are important in the modern world.

From what I've been able to research most animals provide approximately 40-55% of their weight in edible meat, if butchered correctly; herd men and oxen are exceptions (humans aren't very good meat sources, and oxen have been bred domestically to increase yield).

One animal I missed out in the list was the rhino - living weight 3500-4500 lbs. edible meat probably about 45% because of the weight and thickness of the hide.

 

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WRT Prax in particular, I would expect animals that are party to the Covenant in the prey/grazer role to provide more nutrition to Covenant parties in the hunter/herder role than would otherwise be the case, just as the Covenant grazers are better able to be sustained by the limited resources of the chaparral than foreign animals like horses.  

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I've moved the answer to a morokanth question by @MJ Sadique over here to avoid an off topic reply:

.....do they drink human's milk ? or another beast's one ?

The basics for Praxians is that you keep your own animals as a sign of wealth and live off those you've raided. If a raid goes well you likely have more animals than you can eat, so likely a small herd of animals not of your tribe exists within your clan. Marriage requirements are that you need other herd beasts to gift your mother-in-laws family, this not only proves your prowess, but provides the wedding feast. So most clans have at least a small number of other types of herd beasts. Invariably some were part of a milk herd and so will be milked.

Quote

All of the major tribes herd beasts produce milk and are milked. As is usual after calving, some cows are moved on to the milk herd (often within the main herd), while the others are returned to the main herd. Back in the main herd their udders reduce noticeably returning to their normal size. Milk herds are normally small and only noticeable when separated out during the rut. Different beast milks have different qualities, but all are either drunk, fermented or made into some form of cheese.

So in their ceremonies, morokanth eat or drink herd-man milk products and other herd's when available.

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I've moved the reply to @BWP about morokanth over here to avoid an off topic reply:

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Or, they're the same devious carnivores that they always were, because that's considerably more interesting.

I have to disagree. Once i was told that morokanth were vegetarians, I immediately started to look at the implications of this. Jeff said they'd eat meat 1 or 2 times a week which fitted in with normal meat consumption for the Bronze Age, meat wasn't eaten every day, Praxian nomads are obviously different. This gave a good opportunity to diversify the five great tribes of Prax as up to then they all function the same - raid eat meat raid. It was quite refreshing to look at a tribe which wouldn't follow this normal pattern, but still functioned within the same pattern as the other nomads. The idea of the morokanth cheating to beat the humans and be like everyone else, was easily replaced to be the morokanth cheated not to be like everyone else. And they clearly never cheated as they have the same Waha / Eiritha structure as other tribes - The Covenant was individually done for each tribe, with each having a slightly different version of it depending on their herd. The drawing lots was Waha holding two pieces of string in his fist. Separately each tribe drew a string and the short string lost, becoming the herder. The herders now had the responsibility for the now animals. The idea that the morokanth must still raid for meat for the herd-men is good twist and sets the scene for the other tribes problems with herd-men and outsiders perceptions. 

As before it makes no difference if you make the morokanth like the other tribes, it's easy to make them so. Future products such as the RuneQuest Bestiary will have them primarily as vegetarians.

more info here:

so in the diversification of the Great tribes, we have

  • The bison are the standard to compare the other tribes against.
  • The morokanth retain their vegetarianism.
  • The sables don't have Storm Bull as the Father of their Founders.
  • The impalas are the most numerous by far (roughly twice as many as any other tribe).
  • The high llamas have an elemental connection much stronger than the other tribes'.
Edited by David Scott
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45 minutes ago, David Scott said:

The Covenant was individually done for each tribe,

Was this all done at the same "time" or do some (undoubtedly obscure and fragmentary) accounts suggest that there might have been (for example) Seven or Four Great Tribes at one point in history, with the current canonical system only emerging at a particular moment? It's worth it for me at least contemplating a history where Sable and Moro were introduced to the Bull Tribes within Time, possibly displacing one or more others that were on the way out anyway.

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18 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

Was this all done at the same "time" or do some (undoubtedly obscure and fragmentary) accounts suggest that there might have been (for example) Seven or Four Great Tribes at one point in history, with the current canonical system only emerging at a particular moment? It's worth it for me at least contemplating a history where Sable and Moro were introduced to the Bull Tribes within Time, possibly displacing one or more others that were on the way out anyway.

It's worth looking at the populations at the Dawn, these were the "tribes" in Sacred Ground (see map in the Guide):

Tribe/families/septs

Bison 500/20/2 (Ancestral grazing present in Prax)

High Llama 500/20/5 (Ancestral grazing present in Prax)

Sable 500/20/ 7 Phratries (Ancestral grazing present in Prax)

Morokanth 500/20/4 (Ancestral grazing present in Prax)

Impala 500/20/3 ((Ancestral grazing lost, but move on to the Paps Grazing)

Bolo 175/7/0

Ostrich 175/7/0

Rhino 75/3/0 (nearly die out in 1st Age)

Nose Horn 25/1/0 (die out in 1st Age)

Plains Elk 25/1/0 (die out in 1st Age)

Long Nose 25/1/0 (die out in 1st Age)

As you can see, all the Great Tribes were present. Great in that they have the largest populations. The populations being only clan sized.

 

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11 minutes ago, David Scott said:

 all the Great Tribes were present

Thank you! And all followed the Covenant in some form we would recognize today, I take it.

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55 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

And all followed the Covenant in some form we would recognize today, I take it

Sort of. Populations were very small, likewise herds. Most were living off their own herds. Raiding wasn't fully established. Almost immediately the Great herds moved out to their respective grazings, Bolo and ostrich headed out to the wastes. The others remained in the safety of the paps. The first chaos attacks occurred almost immediately from the marsh, storm bulls moved off to the block. Populations grew slowly by the time the First council arrived in 35, the Great tribes had only grown (net) by 50-60 individuals. I don't think raiding really became established until about 200 with each tribe's population nearing 1000, around this period, most will have formed 2 clans. Under the influence of the First Council, the Lightbringers were as important as Waha and Eiritha. It wasn't until the tribes began to move out beyond the Storm influence that Waha became fully established. The unicorn tribe also formed after 35, when the Council brought Yelorna with them.

Edited by David Scott
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With the separation into 2 clans, the High Khan/ tribal leader started to appear and so the Tasks of Waha started to become more important.

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7 hours ago, David Scott said:

I've moved the reply to @BWP about morokanth over here to avoid an off topic reply:

I have to disagree.

I'm not sure what the point of your post was.  I was indicating my disagreement with this new "accepted wisdom".  I neither needed nor wanted a change here.  Of course you're free to disagree with my disagreement, but I wasn't talking about your Glorantha, was I?

Everything you wrote here just reinforces my opinion that the whole "morokanths are vegetarian" concept is incredibly dull.  I don't want my Glorantha to be a dull place.

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11 hours ago, BWP said:

Everything you wrote here just reinforces my opinion that the whole "morokanths are vegetarian" concept is incredibly dull.  I don't want my Glorantha to be a dull place.

I agree, it makes no sense in terms of the Survival Covenant, so is one of the things about the new revised Glorantha that I happily ignore.

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I don't think the Morokanth need to be vegetarian in order to stand out among the tribes. Being sapient giant tapirs who herd homo non-sapiens is plenty distinct without a What A Twist! inversion of what it means to have won or lost Waha's contest.

Put me in the creepy awesome herd-man eating Morokanth camp, where getting to have conciousness be the norm is winning rather than having to keep herds being losing.

Edited by JonL
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11 hours ago, JonL said:

I don't think the Morokanth need to be vegetarian in order to stand out among the tribes.

It wasn't my decision to make them vegetarian, I'm just welcoming it to diversify the tribes.

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