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Prax and the thousand questions about the place.


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5 hours ago, Iskallor said:

So i have a unicorn rider who has had children. What does she ride?

If she maintains a ritual virginity, then she could still ride a unicorn.

Clearly there are magical and ritual ways to do this.  The best example is the Demivierge of Rhigos as noted on GtG p.249 who "despite her ritual virginity,
is widely known to be a hedonist who loves the carnal pleasures of men and women"

 

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18 hours ago, Iskallor said:

How does the Unicorn tribe exist in Prax/Wastes? Do they raid? They certainly don't eat Unicorns. 

They hunt and raid just like the other tribes.

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Are there clans?

Yes. There are 1000 members of the tribe, the rule of thumb that we use is 500 = a clan, so there are two clans. The normal breakdown is then half of those numbers are children, then 50/50 men and women, but in this case it's 10/40 men/women. The tribe is small with only 500 adults made up of 400 women and 100 men.

I'm currently speculating that one clan is more closely tied to the Rubble group. They are based in Prax, whereas the other is out in the Wastes and has the Star Shaman leading it. Pavis and the Big Rubble says

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The Cult in Pavis
In 1610, the temple of Yelorna in Pavis had about 100 members: a high priestess, a Star Maiden commanding the Shield Maidens, two Star Ladies (commanding respectively the Unicorn Riders and the Wanderers), about six Shield Maidens, 15 Unicorn Riders (mostly from the Unicorn tribe), 25 Wanderers, and 50 lay members.

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Do women from other tribes leave home and join them?

There are three normal paths to joining the tribe, membership is not hereditary.

  • The first and most common way is that it's identified as part of their initiation.
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...a few experience glimpses of their destiny, leaving the sleeping world of the Earth Goddesses' Dream and find themselves on the surface of the world in the Great Darkness. Of these, some find themselves alone on the Great Plain with with nothing but their wits and a new born god, others are attracted by the Call of Bull Roarer nearby and join the group of boys hunting and fighting chaos, or they bear the brunt of attacking malevolent spirits which they dispatch with ease. When they return the Elders hear their story and understand that they will leave the Path of Eiritha with her permission, claimed by husband and friends. They are moved to into new groups to prepare them. Their fate is no longer the concern of Eiritha.

All survivors who have not shamed themselves, Waha or Eiritha, are initiated into the Praxian Tradition. These rites also establish whether the survivors have a spirit or a soul, either way, all are on now on a path to their Great Initiation.

In the case of those destined to join the Unicorn tribe, most will see their unicorn. In any case the elders will know and the woman will leave their tribe to join their new tribe. Although rare this is not considered bad or shameful to the individual or their family.

  • The second is joining later in life. These women normally join due to events in their life and perhaps need a safe haven, or have a calling to be part of the this tribe. Likewise this is not considered bad or shameful to the individual or their family. They rarely join the cult of Yelorna but keep their usual cult connections. Only 75% of women are Yelorna cultists.
  • The third method of joining is as a foreigner. It's a bit like the French Foreign legion. Prove yourself and you're in. Some become Yelornans, some retain their original cult. You don't have to be a member of the Praxian tradition either.
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How do the other tribes feel about them?

They are one of the tribes of Prax, they are allowed to be here. We will steal their herd beasts, fight them or hire them as mercenaries.

19 hours ago, Iskallor said:

The Lunars would surely be interested in them.

Looking at the Appendix C in Cults of Prax, 20% of the Unicorn tribe are Seven Mothers members. That's a 100 members. Using the 1% rule, that also gives them their own priestess. I suspect that there are a few converts, but most are actual lunars who would rather be part of a nomadic tribe that stay at home - or it's just their calling. For reference, other than Yelorna, the only other magic people are a Daka Fal shaman and a Helpwoman shaman.

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6 hours ago, Iskallor said:

So i have a unicorn rider who has had children. What does she ride?

If she's completed the Unicorn Quest then a Unicorn, if not her tribal herd beast (preferably white) or a white horse if she's not a praxian. The having children bit is moot as there's a ritual of purification to restore purity. It's likely a minor heroquest to Yelorna's camp in the Skyworld to ritually bathe in the silvery flames of her campfire.

 

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1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

If she maintains a ritual virginity, then she could still ride a unicorn.

Clearly there are magical and ritual ways to do this.  The best example is the Demivierge of Rhigos as noted on GtG p.249 who "despite her ritual virginity,
is widely known to be a hedonist who loves the carnal pleasures of men and women"

It's mentioned in the Yelorna cult write up in Pavis and the Big Rubble.

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1 hour ago, D said:

What do the men of the Unicorn tribe ride? 

Normally their tribal beasts or if foreigners, horses. It is possible to be a male unicorn rider, but that's the realm of PCs. Those 100 men aren't slaves, slaves always walk.

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3 hours ago, Iskallor said:

Why would men join the unicorn tribe? Perhaps if already married to one of their members, but what other reasons?

Work among Praxians is gender-divided, and the Unicorn Tribe appeals to  women who won't follow their traditional gender roles. Just as some women won't adopt the roles set out for them in Praxian society, there will be some men who don't, so there's a reversal with men doing women's work and women doing men's.

Gender role reversal is found in several terrestrial societies, so I imagine that the Unicorn Tribe are a Gloranthan example.

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18 hours ago, Iskallor said:

Why would men join the unicorn tribe? Perhaps if already married to one of their members, but what other reasons?

I think we are mostly on the right track here, with a few small corrections.

14 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Work among Praxians is gender-divided, and the Unicorn Tribe appeals to  women who won't follow their traditional gender roles. Just as some women won't adopt the roles set out for them in Praxian society, there will be some men who don't

Work among Praxians is gender-divided, and the Unicorn Tribe is for women who can't follow their traditional gender roles...there will be some men who can't...

This is about following the Way of Waha. Most of these women can't follow it and become Eirithans. This is revealed in their initiation. Everybody else is born under the Covenant and it makes them conform to the gender split.

The group who join in later life are a much smaller group are likely wronged by some action in the Way of Waha, or for political reasons. A good female example would be the Tribal Queen of the Sables joining the Unicorn tribe a few years after Moonbroth, as her husband Inire the Red, starts to become more Lunarised, sedentary and not take up his Paps khan role. Although Queen and technically ruler of the Matriarchal Sables, she didn't want to be a Lunar puppet, so joins the Unicorn Tribe. There are likely male examples of this as well.

Cult membership amongst the men is:

Waha 6

Storm Bull 4

Foundchild 2

Daka Fal 22

Sky Gazers 1

Shadow People 7

Thirstless 7

Hidden Ancestor 5

Orlanth 4 (16 Vingans for reference)

Chalana Arroy 4

Humakti 2

Seven Mothers 20

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I'm curious what the age demographic for Prax and praxians is. I'm sure it varies by tribe, but do you have an overall estimate?

One estimate I saw for real-world nomads was: 0-14 years = 41%, 15-24 years = ~20%, 25-39 years = ~18%, 40-54 years = ~14%, 55-64 years = ~3%, 65 and over ~3%. Male/Female split ~51% male, 49% female, although it varied by age (older people more likely to be female).

In practical terms, it means that in a clan of ~400 people, there are about 40 'young bucks' (males who are old enough to fight and young enough to not know better), and ~36 men of fighting age who know enough not to look for trouble.

Would these numbers viable for Prax? or do you have some alternate numbers? (I liked the work you did on population growth - shows you think about this kind of thing).

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I've deliberately steered away from this. Although interesting, it distracts me from writing about stuff I need to! It's very easy to go down one of these narrow alleys without realising. Other previous distractions were my milk yield chart for herd beasts (surprisingly interesting when plotted on a graph of animal weight / volume, basically it's a straight line relationship, works for humans as well). My current plotting catchments for the Wastes, etc, etc, etc...

0-18 is 50% as a standard we use for all groups (praxian, sartarites, etc)

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On 9/17/2016 at 6:32 AM, Iskallor said:

So i have a unicorn rider who has had children. What does she ride?

Until she has the Repurification Ritual she is stuck with zebras or horses, probably. After the Ritual she counts as a virgin and can ride a unicorn again. I normally play that a Unicorn rider must quest for a new unicorn.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Restoring a hymen probably only takes 1 point of healing.  It is hardly a major wound requiring a "regrow limb" style of magical investment.  It sounds like the sort of ritual you can perform daily.  Do you ever get the feeling that unicorns and their whole virginity fetish are just a tad creepy?  Do they have a "sense virginity" skill, or is it more like "sense sexually active female", with virgins as the null set?  It is mentioned that unicorns mate with certain types of deer, but deer don't have hymens in our world.  Only mammals with an aquatic evolution in our world do, dolphins, whales, pigs, hippos, and we humans.  We are decidedly odd apes.

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9 hours ago, Darius West said:

Restoring a hymen probably only takes 1 point of healing

I'm deliberately going to skirt round the definition of virginity. It has lots of real world baggage and is considered by many to be a contentious issue. The angle I'm currently taking with the Yelornans is:

  • Praxian unicorns are the result of a heroquest back to the Green Age
  • they don't breed in the middle world. 
  • the heroquester has to be a virgin due to the nature of the quest to the Green Age
  • virginity in yelornans is not a physical state (men can be yelornans too)
  • the state can be achieved through their ritual of purity mentioned in the RQ2 write up
  • the state of virginity is so they can befriend the unicorn on the quest.
  • the celibacy afterwards maintains the magic bond. 
  • The green age quest works due to the lack of sexual differentiation.
  • the unicorns don't detect virginity or lack of it, they just are unable to connect with those who have actively differentiated.

(obviously the write up won't be in bullet points :-)

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We have a fair amount of info on this from Pavis: GtA

Historically we know that Pavis built his temple in what is now the Real City using:

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The Headstones were used exclusively in the creation of the original King’s Villa, later called the Temple of Pavis. The stones were radiant crystalline growths and included the most exotic of the Organstones built right within the structure of the temple palace.  

then

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In 860 S.T., Pavis himself retired permanently to his palace.

and

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Eventually, Pavis retired from this World into his temple in the Real City where he still resides as the city’s divine protector. His children became the priests of his cult, worshiping their father and organizing the rituals to lend him magical energy to unify and defend the city he founded. 

The cult write up says

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The cult of Pavis exemplifes many city founder cults. Like most of them, it is essentially a worship of the founder of the city, believing that this reinforces the potency of the guardian, without which the city would wither. Pavis is the magical guardian for New Pavis and the Big Rubble. By performing their ancient ceremonies and rituals, his priests can call upon Pavis to succor and defend the city.  

Some magical information is also helpful:

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Any initiate of Pavis with the Man Rune of 1W or higher may use it directly as a divine rune affinity. This is a byproduct of Lord Pavis’ experiments in the Second Age. 

More info in The Real City Temple box

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The Real City Temple is the home of Lord Pavis and the founder of the city still resides within the cracked but intact crystalline structure, [...] The temple was built out of the Headstone of the Faceless Statue, whose rocky exterior was polished down by tireless dwarves to reveal the crystal within. There are no visible entrances or windows, giving rise to its nickname “The Room Without Doors”. [...]

It is enormous in size and seems to be carved out of a single piece of translucent, pinkish-white stone. The only mar on the structure is a single crack running the height of the front.

Although there are no doors or windows, Pavis himself dwells within this temple. His priests know the spell that allows them to enter his temple (contained within the grimoire Master of the Faceless King); for all others the temple is physically inaccessible. Those who have entered the temple claim that it is larger on the inside than the outside. 

Finally

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Isn’t this a Wizardry School under the HeroQuest Rules?
Yes. Pavis is not a god that you can gain magic from by emulating. He is not a cosmic god or even a personal one;

So Pavis is clearly a sorcerer, but with some kind of cosmic link to the Man rune which gives his followers God like powers (Man Rune affinities or Man Rune Magic). The question is what is the temple and how is he still in there. What is it in terms of sorcery.

I think Pavis is in some kind of dwarf-assisted geomantically created stasis rune. Inside is a small bubble of Otherworld that holds him like the gods in a state of inaction in relation to the Middleworld. Power channeled to him by worship is used to support the magical defences of the city and holds his link to the Man rune steady (maybe he's linked in as grandfather mortal in numerous myths in true god learner style and even the nomads don't realise he's a part of Daka Fal). I imagine that if a great sorcerer looked into the temple with RuneQuest sight, he might see a stasis rune with a man rune at the centre. It might even be a man rune inside an infinity rune inside a stasis rune. What part of the world machine is this? 

Those who enter the temple under the right conditions may meet him. Those times he can act as he once did, so time passes for him in the blink of an eye. He's basically frozen in time. Not the immortality people expect. 

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On 07/10/2016 at 4:25 AM, Darius West said:

Restoring a hymen probably only takes 1 point of healing.  It is hardly a major wound requiring a "regrow limb" style of magical investment.  It sounds like the sort of ritual you can perform daily.  Do you ever get the feeling that unicorns and their whole virginity fetish are just a tad creepy?  Do they have a "sense virginity" skill, or is it more like "sense sexually active female", with virgins as the null set?  It is mentioned that unicorns mate with certain types of deer, but deer don't have hymens in our world.  Only mammals with an aquatic evolution in our world do, dolphins, whales, pigs, hippos, and we humans.  We are decidedly odd apes.

i don't think so.

1) "regrow limb" works only if the wound is NOT cicatrized.

2) hymen is not a limb.

3) all women don't have a hymen

4) a woman can break without any sexual intercourse, riding for example can make it break

so : virginity is not a peace of flesh, its a spirit state. For me, the ritual virginity is about clear memory about all sexual acts.

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10 hours ago, Iskallor said:

So Pavis is still in the temple and worshippers can go and talk to him yes? Can they see him? What help can he offer?

I can imagine that Lord Pavis may give informations about past, for example. After all, he was there when Pavis was founded : he did it.

This kind of informations may be precious if you want to explore the big rubble.

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Pavis GtA says

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They use boomerangs to good effect in battle, striking from a distance and then closing to attack with spears. 

I've not seen any of the independants in the game so can't comment. I'm pretty sure blowpipes exist in the Wastes, the Ghost Darter Sspirit society certainly uses them, they are certainly a Foundchild specialist weapon. There's a mention by Sandy in the Glorantha digest that most pigmies don't have the SIZ (or was it STR) to use bows, so boomerangs and blowpipes make complete sense to me. Although that's clearly not the case with the Impala Tribe, who have different reason for bow use.

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