Prax and the thousand questions about the place.

[David Scott]

8 minutes ago, kalidor said:

If they are their ancestor. Were they star captains who took wives from the sable tribe

They were in Genert's Garden before the Star Captains came down to help fight Chaos in the Great Darkness. The Elder and Younger took Eiritha for a wife and she birthed the Twin Founders of the Sable tribe. The Twin Founders took the Sable protectress as their wife and she birthed the Sable Daughters who married the sons of Waha (khan dynasties) and each founded their own Sable phratry, who are the ancestors of the People (two legs and four legs).

Have a look at Eiritha's genealogy in Cults of Prax or the Cult Compendium. Replace Storm Bull and his sons with the the Elder and Younger and the Twin Founders. This explains why they are few Storm Bull cultists in the Sable Tribe.

They are a special case of Star Captain - one with a mysterious moon connection.

[kalidor]

19 minutes ago, David Scott said:

They were in Genert's Garden before the Star Captains came down to help fight Chaos in the Great Darkness. The Elder and Younger took Eiritha for a wife and she birthed the Twin Founders of the Sable tribe. The Twin Founders took the Sable protectress as their wife and she birthed the Sable Daughters who married the sons of Waha (khan dynasties) and each founded their own Sable phratry, who are the ancestors of the People (two legs and four legs).

Have a look at Eiritha's genealogy in Cults of Prax or the Cult Compendium. Replace Storm Bull and his sons with the the Elder and Younger and the Twin Founders. This explains why they are few Storm Bull cultists in the Sable Tribe.

They are a special case of Star Captain - one with a mysterious moon connection.

Wow! Impresive, truly. I thought they were star captains because of the sky and moon rune. So in generts pantheon were represented  all elements?

[David Scott]

Just now, kalidor said:

Wow! Impresive, truly. I thought they were star captains because of the sky and moon rune. So in generts pantheon were represented  all elements?

I don't think it was his pantheon, just the nature of the god time at this point.

[kalidor]

Hello David,

What are your thoughts about the three-bean-circus in your book? Are they gods/goddess with the harmony rune as their/his/her rune cult? What was his/her/their position in generts pantheon? Can we get cooperation/diplomacy charms/rune spells from that cult?

 

Thanks again.

[David Scott]

On 30/01/2018 at 3:35 PM, kalidor said:

What are your thoughts about the three-bean-circus in your book?

The basis for what I'm writing is Nomad Gods (1ed) and Cults of Prax. I always start there and three bean circus is the same.

On 30/01/2018 at 3:35 PM, kalidor said:

Are they gods/goddess with the harmony rune as their/his/her rune cult?

They are the children of Tada and Ernalda who are now greatly diminished after the Great Darkness and now comprise a small spirit society / subcult of Eiritha based at Agape with a wandering part as well in the Wastes and Prax.

If you join the cult and renounce violence, eating meat and all worldly goods you can get cool hippie magic of love, peace, and harmony. Outside the cult only the Most respected Elder gets to wield their (3 point) Peace magics.

Sensible raiders and warriors avoid them, otherwise they are clearly a good evening out.

more info here: http://www.glorantha.com/docs/three-bean-circus/

Edited February 1, 2018 by David Scott

[Yelm's Light]

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

They are the children of Tada and Ernalda who are now greatly diminished after the Great Darkness and now comprise a small spirit society / subcult of Eiritha based at Agape with a wandering part as well in the Wastes and Prax.

Emphasis mine.

I've always wondered about this...is Agape pronounced and meant in the Greek sense of the term, or is it mouth wide open?

[Runeblogger]

14 minutes ago, Yelm's Light said:

Emphasis mine.

I've always wondered about this...is Agape pronounced and meant in the Greek sense of the term, or is it mouth wide open?

Mouth wide open for me.

[David Scott]

29 minutes ago, Yelm's Light said:

Emphasis mine.

I've always wondered about this...is Agape pronounced and meant in the Greek sense of the term, or is it mouth wide open?

I think Greg was playing here, it’s Eiritha’s open mouth - the caves and a stream running out so Agape - open mouth. Also the home of the TBC - eternal love and peace hippies - so the Greek sense of the term too - brotherly love.

[Byll]

Are the protectresses and founders of the Ostrich tribe in the typical Eiritha daughter and Stormbull scion mould? Or is there also some star captain heritage there?

Ostrich Mother dropped from the sky and as I recall her children were adopted by Eiritha with a bit of Raven finagling

The Ostrich Grasslands are even closer to the copper sands than Prax, so Stormbull connection would be quite understandable

[jeffjerwin]

On 1/31/2018 at 12:45 PM, David Scott said:

They are the children of Tada and Ernalda who are now greatly diminished after the Great Darkness and now comprise a small spirit society / subcult of Eiritha based at Agape with a wandering part as well in the Wastes and Prax.

Interesting... does that mean that they are related to the summer and winter wives of Vingkot?

[David Scott]

6 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

Interesting... does that mean that they are related to the summer and winter wives of Vingkot?

Yes, Same father different mother, Esrola IIRC. Tada had a number of children if you look at the Eiritha’s genealogy at the end of the Eiritha cult in Cults of Prax. Three Bean Circus, Ronance and the Good Shepherd by Ernalda. Doubtless others in different myths and stories. Praxian and Orlanthi culture has always been linked, that’s why when the Theylans arrived in 35 ST, it was more of a rediscovery than an invasion. The gods they brought are still called the Invader gods, but Orlanth is Waha’s uncle. 

[David Scott]

13 hours ago, Byll said:

Are the protectresses and founders of the Ostrich tribe in the typical Eiritha daughter and Stormbull scion mould?

To be honest I’ve not really looked in depth at some of the independent Tribes, they are tiny. However their protectress is called Ostrich Mother. She is the daughter of Father of Birds and an Earth goddess, I would say Ernalda. She births 10000 ostriches and 10000 Ostrich Folk, no father. She and some of her children survive (just) the gods war and the great darkness. Waha finds them and adds them to his collection of survivors. As with the other tribes, they are related. Waha’s Khan dynasty marries into the Tribe as with the other tribes. Although not directly of Eiritha, at the dawn Ernalda puts them in Eiritha’s care. This is somewhat similar to the Agimori, who Ernalda helps procreate, so almost certainly there’s an Ostrich Mother shaman-priestess at the Paps. This likely explains why they are the smallest tribe in the Wastes.

[soltakss]

On 2/2/2018 at 10:49 AM, David Scott said:

To be honest I’ve not really looked in depth at some of the independent Tribes, they are tiny. However their protectress is called Ostrich Mother. She is the daughter of Father of Birds and an Earth goddess, I would say Ernalda. She births 10000 ostriches and 10000 Ostrich Folk, no father. She and some of her children survive (just) the gods war and the great darkness. Waha finds them and adds them to his collection of survivors. As with the other tribes, they are related. Waha’s Khan dynasty marries into the Tribe as with the other tribes. Although not directly of Eiritha, at the dawn Ernalda puts them in Eiritha’s care. This is somewhat similar to the Agimori, who Ernalda helps procreate, so almost certainly there’s an Ostrich Mother shaman-priestess at the Paps. This likely explains why they are the smallest tribe in the Wastes.

That is something that people tend to forget, Ostrich Mother is a daughter of the Earth. Her children do not fly, as they are bound to the earth. So, she is probably as much a natural part of the Praxian culture as the Herd Beasts, rather than being an adopted interloper.

[Noita]

A question or two about Pavis

Why is one wing of the knowledge temple destroyed?

Why would Thurkan Thumper a Zoran Zorani, live in Sun Town?

Plus wouldn't a Humakti temple bang in a residential area be pretty disastrous with all those death vibes emanating from it?

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Iskallor said:

A question or two about Pavis

Why is one wing of the knowledge temple destroyed?

To my knowledge, that wing has not been built yet (and it is somewhat in doubt whether it ever will).

For comparison: for hundreds of years, the building crane atop the unfinished towers of the Kölner Dom (the Cologne minster) was the trademark sight for that city. (I could name other, more recent ambitious building projects in Germany, but one of those  - the Hamburg Elbphilharmonie - has recently and against expectations been finished and continues to please. Less such luck with big traffic infrastructure projects...)

 

Quote

Why would Thurkan Thumper a Zoran Zorani, live in Sun Town?

To show how badass he is?

Seriously: the door of his home faces away from Suntown, which is how he and the Yelmalians like it.

 

Quote

Plus wouldn't a Humakti temple bang in a residential area be pretty disastrous with all those death vibes emanating from it?

I guess that harkens back to better times when Humakti mostly were not-quite-dead-yet and contagious only when making contact with their blades or spells.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Joerg

[David Scott]

11 hours ago, Iskallor said:

Why is one wing of the knowledge temple destroyed?

Pavis GtA has a tiny reference to this on page 182:

Quote

Left Arm: Unconstructed and used as an area for finishing off parchments.

Looking closely at the map: 

We know that the Seven Mothers Temple was built after 1610. I feel it's likely that it was built on something older to make a statement. Like a temple or the remains of the holy herd beast corral. I can imagine that some of the building materials for the new wing of the LM temple had been sitting there for years while the scholars got "a round tuit". The Lunars just appropriated them. The Lunars aren't now going to let them build the wing in front of the 7M temple. After the fall of Pavis, the 7M temple is sacked and dismantled. The LMs now have enough materials to build their new wing and are back to finding more interesting things to look at that building materials - those dwarfs were going to be expensive anyway and we can use the Irripi Ontor temple as an annex.

[M Helsdon]

My interpretation of the Paps.

The inset is to provide a sense of scale.

The Paps are known as the Deep Womb of the Goddess, sacred to the goddess Eiritha and her son, Waha, as it was here that Eiritha hid herself from Death by going underneath the earth. The Paps are an enormous underground earth temple, a vestige of the Golden Age.

As an ancient and major Earth temple, the facade is very large. Originally a limestone processional way led up to the entrance, but the ramp was destroyed or demolished during the Gods War. The pillars depict each of the original ten Herd Mothers, damaged to a greater or lesser degree, with some portraying creatures now extinct. Between the pillars are reliefs of life in Prax before Time, severely eroded. These panels show animals and peoples now unknown to the inhabitants of Prax, from when it was part of Genert's Garden.

[Runeblogger]

That's extremely cool, M Helsdon.

[Yelm's Light]

Very reminiscent of Petra, sans shrubbery.

[M Helsdon]

2 minutes ago, Yelm's Light said:

Very reminiscent of Petra, sans shrubbery.

See David Scott's posts on page 14 of this thread. The Tomb of Um was a major inspiration, but also examples of Egyptian and Indian rock temples.

I've decided to make a number of changes to this image.

[David Scott]

8 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

I've decided to make a number of changes to this image.

It's a great start Martin.

Edited February 11, 2018 by David Scott

[Steve]

Well done Martin, great work.

 

[Joerg]

I wonder how much Eiritha's hagiography will have that pregnant human female and how much she will have cow's attributes, like an always-full udder. The Paps is where her sweet milk is given to her people. If anatomically correct (memories from watching the James Herriot veterinary stories...), her birthing orifice would be somewhat to the north and east. but IIRC Waha was born at the Paps and not back there.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Joerg

[M Helsdon]

22 hours ago, David Scott said:

It's a great start Martin.

A few changes made. Only after uploading the image did I realize some of the shadows were in the wrong places, and the multiple small doorways were too many and too regular. So here's version #2.

 

[M Helsdon]

8 hours ago, Joerg said:

I wonder how much Eiritha's hagiography will have that pregnant human female and how much she will have cow's attributes, like an always-full udder. The Paps is where her sweet milk is given to her people. If anatomically correct (memories from watching the James Herriot veterinary stories...), her birthing orifice would be somewhat to the north and east. but IIRC Waha was born at the Paps and not back there.

As udders are pairs of mammary glands, and Eiritha is depicted in near human form (based on the image in Cults of Prax), I elected to give her human attributes. Different animals have different numbers of pairs: cows and bison two pairs, rhinos and llamas one pair, for example, so giving a depiction of multiple pairs would be species specific, and probably make the image look a little trollish. In the case of most real world cow goddesses, the deity is depicted as either animal or human, with limited cross-over of attributes, usually horns on the human image, and perhaps bovine ears, with the exception of the Hindu goddess Kamadhenu, who has a human head and breasts, and a bovine body with udders.

In Prax, the human imagery might be tribe neutral, as for each tribe, the visual hagiography of the goddess would likely follow the attributes of the totem herd animal of the tribe, but perhaps only regarding the head. I used the image of Eiritha in this illustration as a basis, but assumed the form shown was perhaps how the Sable tribe see her... In my picture, Eiritha's head does not conform to any specific extant herd animal. And of course, Eiritha is not a cow goddess (though she might be the same deity as the Orlanthi cow goddess - but I wouldn't suggest that to a Praxian...)

Edited February 12, 2018 by M Helsdon