RQ genealogy

[Mugen]

1 hour ago, jongjom said:

If it's restrained to Chaoisum ones that rules out MRQ and RQ6?

Err... yes, you're right...
So, it's Chaosium + RuneQuest editions

[NickMiddleton]

1 hour ago, Mugen said:

Here is how I see RQ-related games, restrained to Chaosium-published ones:

Jason was always pretty explicit that the two "foundational" documents that underpinned the bulk of the default system choices in the BGB were Elric! / SB5 and CoC 6 - it has some OPTIONAL systems from RQ3 (and other games more closely related to the RQ strand), but the base line is very obviously Elric! / SB5 / CoC 6. Structurally it was a spiritual successor to Worlds of Wonder.

The 2nd edition Magic World probably deserves a mention, as it blended some ideas from RQ3 and the BGB back in to the Elric! / SB5 system.

cheers,

Nick

Edited May 11, 2016 by NickMiddleton

[soltakss]

6 hours ago, Mugen said:

Here is how I see RQ-related games, restrained to Chaosium-published ones:

I can't see that RQ3 derived from BRP. RQ3 clearly derives from RQ2. 

I can see a relationship between BRP and CoC, but I am not sure which came first. I had a copy of BRP in my RQ2 Boxed Set back in the early eighties (Wikipedia says RQ2 was released in 1980 and CoC in 1981 but it doesn't mention the GW RQ2 Boxed Set).

[styopa]

I'd agree too that BRP came from RQ2, and spawned from there, but RQ3 did come from RQ2, not BRP.

[g33k]

It's also worth noting that the original "BRP" pamphlet and the "BGB" version (also called "BRP") were very VERY different things, and not necessarily a linear evolution one to t'other...  So, it's necessary in "big picture" discussions like these to be clear WHICH "BRP" you are talking about!

[smiorgan]

On 11/5/2016 at 1:53 PM, Mugen said:

Here is how I see RQ-related games, restrained to Chaosium-published ones:

BRP Gold Book takes a lot of stuff from Elric!. Basically its entire default combat system, most spot rules and the sorcery rules. So, it should be linked also to Elric! 

Edited May 12, 2016 by smiorgan

[smiorgan]

On 11/5/2016 at 3:21 PM, NickMiddleton said:

Jason was always pretty explicit that the two "foundational" documents that underpinned the bulk of the default system choices in the BGB were Elric! / SB5 and CoC 6 - it has some OPTIONAL systems from RQ3 (and other games more closely related to the RQ strand), but the base line is very obviously Elric! / SB5 / CoC 6.

Nick

Exactly

[styopa]

Quote

It's also worth noting that the original "BRP" pamphlet and the "BGB" version (also called "BRP") were very VERY different things, and not necessarily a linear evolution one to t'other...  So, it's necessary in "big picture" discussions like these to be clear WHICH "BRP" you are talking about!

So you're saying that there needs to be even a tree for the genealogy of BRP.  What a freakishly incestuous line.  

It's like the Habsburgs of RPGs?

[Mugen]

After reading your comments, I've modified my chart and tried to add all the RQ/BRP-related games I've heard of. I even added french editions worth mentioning.
I don't know much about Ringworld...
 

[deleriad]

I do enjoy charts like these. As I understand it, Elric!/SB5 was basically Lynn Willis's attempt at making a fairly light, generic fantasy system which would be different from RuneQuest. It was hampered by Chaosium's subsequent implosion. Jason resurrected it in the BGB and added a lot of toolkit options so you could create other Chaosium games to various degrees. The new Magic World was then Ben Monroe's new edition of Elric!/SB5 with a few updates and a new implied setting. Essentially, the idea was to create a light, quick to play fantasy game but the company just never had the resources to devote to it and now the new management has different priorities. 

It's been a long time since I read GORE but I think it is basically the old MRQ1 SRD converted into CoC. I remember it causing some bad blood because it looked to be undercutting an extant game rather than retro-cloning one that was out of print. I don't remember there being much Elric! in it.

Finally, MRQ1 was in many ways a reaction against RQ3, as is the new Chaosium RQ by all accounts. Mongoose were more interested in trying to recapture the UK success of RQ2. It was meant to be a slim, quick to learn, simple to play game book. It was a horrible mess of a product but that's a whole other story. It does rather indicate though that in many ways RQ3 was something of a dead end. 

[smiorgan]

5 hours ago, Mugen said:

 

Seems mostly correct to me. Except "Renaissance" is an OpenQuest derivative (OQ1) rather than a direct descendant of MRQ1.

Ringworld was mostly its own branch from RQ2.

 

[smiorgan]

5 hours ago, deleriad said:

 

It's been a long time since I read GORE but I think it is basically the old MRQ1 SRD converted into CoC. I remember it causing some bad blood because it looked to be undercutting an extant game rather than retro-cloning one that was out of print. I don't remember there being much Elric! in it.

Correct. There is much gore in the Elric saga, but not much Elric! in GORE.

[Nerun]

Smiorgan's flow chart: http://basicroleplaying.org/topic/4025-im-with-brp-any-edition/?do=findComment&comment=62421 surely continue to be the better chart for me. But yours is a very good one too.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Nerun

[Atgxtg]

Just to point it all out, in case someone hasn't caught on yet, these tables are going to get more and more convoluted  because most of the games on the list had more than one influence on the table.

 

For example, RQ3 isn't just a derivative of RQ2, but one of RQ2, Stormbringer, and Superworld (which was itself a derivative of WoW). It was Stormbringer that first broke away from the 5% increments for skills and category modifiers,   The SIZ table used in RQ3 originated in Superworld. 

 

Generally, anything written by Steve Perrin would benefit from just about any of his rule-sets that preceded it. Since Steve wrote virtually all of Chaosium's game systems (with help), and laid the foundation for the few Chaosium games he didn't  quite (i.e. Call of Chtulhu and Pendragon), the tables will probably end up looking like a mess of tangled vines rather than branching out like a tree.  For instance the concept of Major Wounds in Pendragon, were probably inspired by the major wound rules in Stormbringer.  And that's just the in house stuff.

 

If we include games that used the same basic game system but didn't come from Chaosium (for example, FGU's Privateers & Gentlemen) we'll have more criss-crossing lines that most major  airlines!

[smiorgan]

On 14/5/2016 at 2:09 AM, Nerun said:

Smiorgan's flow chart: http://basicroleplaying.org/topic/4025-im-with-brp-any-edition/?do=findComment&comment=62421 surely continue to be the better chart for me. But yours is a very good one too.

Glad you like it! Too bad I lost the original in a computer crash!