Gloranthan Maps & Images

[evilgaz]

Howdy,

I keep nipping back to look at glorantha.com, but the image gallery is still no appearing in this film. Have we got a list of links or good online repository of images for Gloranthan stuff - specifically Prax / Pavis?

Also, without buying an entire world atlas, are there decent maps of, for example, Sun County available?  Feels like there should be and my google-fu is just weak.  

Cheers!

Gaz

[Joerg]

Not sure my google-fu is stronger, but try this:

https://www.google.de/search?q=map+%22zola+fel%22&biw=1431&bih=715&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqk4Lc2avKAhVEtg8KHWkYBowQsAQIXw

I happen to own an extra shrink-wrapped copy of MOB's Avalon Hill book Sun County I'd be willing to part with (sale or swap), if you're interested. Location is Germany.

The maps from Borderlands/River of Cradles probably still are the gold standard for the region.

 

[evilgaz]

My Google-fu is at least that strong, but thanks anyway...

I have Sun County, running an adventure for it last night though, I was disappointed with a lack of decent mappage by today's standards.

[David Scott]

The lack of maps is caused by the fact that nothing has been published for the area since Sun County and its associated books came out. The AAA is pretty good, but as you say it's the whole world. I haven't really started looking at maps for the Prax book yet and so its only at the back of my mind. What are you looking for? Updated Sun County maps based on the Guide's cartography (1 hex = 5 miles) at Griffin Mountain hex size or something else? The whole the River of Cradles? I realise this isn't going to help you now, but it will give me some idea of what people want in future. 

[evilgaz]

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

What are you looking for? Updated Sun County maps based on the Guide's cartography (1 hex = 5 miles) at Griffin Mountain hex size or something else? The whole the River of Cradles? I realise this isn't going to help you now, but it will give me some idea of what people want in future. 

I found a fan made diagram with locations of towns and locations on but it wasn't very pretty.  The style of the maps and diagrams in all those old books is lovely, but we lack the information unfortunately.  For example the Rivers of Cradles map looks very nice, but we're missing  lot of the locations that are talked about in later supplements.

Just speaking for my personal preference, I'm not bothered about a grid or hex overlay, something that looks the part and holds all the locations that are referenced in the text would be good.  As long as there's a scale on the map, that's good enough.  I understand how some wilderness will be vague, but given how strong the Templars are on collecting their taxes and so forth, you'd expect in game world as well as for GMs and players there would be a good resource for this.  I'm big on representative and interesting maps with features and prime locations rather than ordnance survey necessarily.

[Rick Meints]

Evilgaz: You could message me and let me know where to send you a one page PDF of Sun County from the Atlas...

[Zit]

Are there somewhere maps as they could have been drawn by the locals, not by the game designers ? Maps showing the world as they think it is, not as it really is, like our real World in the middle ages or ancient times ? Would be interesting. Or can we consider that the gloranthan maps are accurate thanks to magical means I ?

[Ali the Helering]

There appears to be an abundance of paper or similar in Glorantha, rather than the joy of clay tablets in RW Bronze Age and Early Iron Age.  For real fun, try the oldest maps known!

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://2009.polarhusky.com/media/cms/mapsdata/10ClayMap.jpg&imgrefurl=http://2009.polarhusky.com/logistics/maps-and-route/clay-map/&h=500&w=400&tbnid=anbF1KTgzsbEhM:&docid=BTZRhlArOTE8qM&ei=fKaaVrX0D4b6O8qWgrgH&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwi1ova2lK_KAhUG_Q4KHUqLAHcQMwgkKAAwAA

or https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bibleorigins.net/CaptureWiz438.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bibleorigins.net/BabylonianWorldMapNarMarratum.html&h=596&w=460&tbnid=dily3bILgmw1kM:&docid=m6hzZqJh7J2nMM&ei=fKaaVrX0D4b6O8qWgrgH&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwi1ova2lK_KAhUG_Q4KHUqLAHcQMwglKAEwAQ

or https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/69/21/c9/6921c9ea76cb99dc5392d1b6efafc3f2.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.pinterest.com/pin/77405687318826895/&h=511&w=600&tbnid=G2laZn6CcKFOLM:&docid=3ixD-uPKJCFbPM&ei=fKaaVrX0D4b6O8qWgrgH&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwi1ova2lK_KAhUG_Q4KHUqLAHcQMwgmKAIwAg

as examples.  Life becomes a bit more interesting with a few lines and only a couple of words here or there.....

[evilgaz]

On 1/15/2016 at 6:09 PM, Rick Meints said:

Evilgaz: You could message me and let me know where to send you a one page PDF of Sun County from the Atlas...

Amazeballs.  Email sent, thanks!

[evilgaz]

On 1/15/2016 at 6:09 PM, Rick Meints said:

Evilgaz: You could message me and let me know where to send you a one page PDF of Sun County from the Atlas...

Yo Rick!

I have tried various communication methods, please advise me of the preferred one so I can receive the promised divine reward!

Thanks

[TRose]

 I have some maps published by the Unspoken words in 2003. Including one of the area around Pavis. Don't know how " Official they are. I might part with them to prevent a visit by the Crimson bat  or if Jar Eel give me a big smile. But then I might  to fight off the Crimson bat and keep the maps.  But if Jar Eel smiled and said please  I might not be able to resist.

[Baron]

Sharing is good. I've also heard rumors (for those who might be relatively new) that a lot of fan-made material was ordered removed from the net by the powers that were at the time. I always cringe when this type of topic comes up in a forum. It almost always reveals a treasure trove that then disappears a week later. A word to the wise: if you want access to the creativity of fans, it might be clever to ask quietly, and not in an open forum.

[Rick Meints]

39 minutes ago, Baron said:

Sharing is good. I've also heard rumors (for those who might be relatively new) that a lot of fan-made material was ordered removed from the net by the powers that were at the time. I always cringe when this type of topic comes up in a forum. It almost always reveals a treasure trove that then disappears a week later. A word to the wise: if you want access to the creativity of fans, it might be clever to ask quietly, and not in an open forum.

If you can't be specific, I suggest that you not post this sort of scare mongering.

[Baron]

I can be very specific, as I think you know, Rick. I chose not to be. Shall I document instead? It would take a little bit of time I don't really have. But if you insist, I will. Your call, sir.

[Rick Meints]

9 minutes ago, Baron said:

I can be very specific, as I think you know, Rick. I chose not to be. Shall I document instead? It would take a little bit of time I don't really have. But if you insist, I will. Your call, sir.

Baron, 

You can be as specific as you feel you need to be. This is an open forum. Throwing out some vague comments like "I chose not to be" is a straw man. Either you stand behind what you feel has been right or wrong and explain what you mean or you are just being vague to provoke a fight. Veiled comments hinting at something are worse than no comments. You post focuses on a "I know secrets" atmosphere which I have little tolerance for. I have no idea what "as I think you know" means. That hangs on me some sort of "Rick is trying to hide something that he doesn't want me to make known to the rest of the listeners". You can't it both ways. Make a choice. Speak up, or move on. Own what you write, or don't, but don't leave us to fill in the details.

I am not insisting you do anything, let alone suggest how you should spend your time. That's your call. Just don't throw out a straw man akin to "I know stuff that is bad and you don't want me to say anything" while you stand purposefully aloof and out of the conversation for self selecting reasons.

[Baron]

That's a bold statement, certainly. I will dig for the references I read online and post them. And for the record I did not intend to point fingers or name names, I merely stated what seems common sense given the history. For RQ, and for the rpg industry in general. However there were people who experienced this that went on to post about it, specifically in reference to Glorantha, and even more specifically in this case, about maps. I'll dig it out tomorrow, if necessary. Good night.

[Baron]

http://www.soltakss.com/fanpol01.html

OK, now I'm going to bed.

"Now that Glorantha is on a high, Issaries seems to be turning its back on Fan-based publications and seems to want more official material. Since I know of at least 4 people who have stopped producing non-Issaries material, I can see the wealth of material we have had in the past not being carried forward in the future. What will happen in five years when Issaries shoots itself in the foot, as has happened consistently in the past of Glorantha? Where will the fan communty be? Who will carry Glorantha when that happens? Somehow, I think the answer will be: Nobody. The fan community has carried Glorantha too many times and this Fan Policy may well be the thing that kills off all support for Issaries and Glorantha. In my opinion, it is a mistake."

[Jeff]

5 minutes ago, Baron said:

http://www.soltakss.com/fanpol01.html

OK, now I'm going to bed.

"Now that Glorantha is on a high, Issaries seems to be turning its back on Fan-based publications and seems to want more official material. Since I know of at least 4 people who have stopped producing non-Issaries material, I can see the wealth of material we have had in the past not being carried forward in the future. What will happen in five years when Issaries shoots itself in the foot, as has happened consistently in the past of Glorantha? Where will the fan communty be? Who will carry Glorantha when that happens? Somehow, I think the answer will be: Nobody. The fan community has carried Glorantha too many times and this Fan Policy may well be the thing that kills off all support for Issaries and Glorantha. In my opinion, it is a mistake."

That was from 11 years ago. And was a fan policy from Issaries (which no longer exists), not Moon Design, and not Chaosium. And a fan policy that Rick and I in fact were responsible for gutting and later ending.

[jongjom]

More one for the future but...some excellent from a RPGNet interview:

https://www.rpg.net/columns/interviews/interviews60.phtml

HICKS: What are you working on at the moment?

HODGSON: Right at this instant I'm ducking between painting a cover for a Glorantha supplement and pondering these answers.

 

Edited March 24, 2016 by jongjom

[soltakss]

5 hours ago, Baron said:

Sharing is good. I've also heard rumors (for those who might be relatively new) that a lot of fan-made material was ordered removed from the net by the powers that were at the time. I always cringe when this type of topic comes up in a forum. It almost always reveals a treasure trove that then disappears a week later. A word to the wise: if you want access to the creativity of fans, it might be clever to ask quietly, and not in an open forum.

If you have a fan licence then nothing should be taken down. The fan licence is very simple, fair and easy to use.

In the 20 years I have had a Gloranthan website, I have only been asked to take down one thing.

I suppose that people who don't want to sign a fan licence would have to take everything down, in theory, but I haven't a clue as to how many people that has affected. In my opinion, if they don't want to sign then they can't complain too much about having to take material down.

[soltakss]

3 hours ago, Baron said:

http://www.soltakss.com/fanpol01.html

OK, now I'm going to bed.

"Now that Glorantha is on a high, Issaries seems to be turning its back on Fan-based publications and seems to want more official material. Since I know of at least 4 people who have stopped producing non-Issaries material, I can see the wealth of material we have had in the past not being carried forward in the future. What will happen in five years when Issaries shoots itself in the foot, as has happened consistently in the past of Glorantha? Where will the fan communty be? Who will carry Glorantha when that happens? Somehow, I think the answer will be: Nobody. The fan community has carried Glorantha too many times and this Fan Policy may well be the thing that kills off all support for Issaries and Glorantha. In my opinion, it is a mistake."

OK, if I said it then I must have thought it true at the time. However, it was 11 years ago and things have changed since then.

Although I am honoured at being quoted for truth about all things Gloranthan, that statement was just my opinion on the fan policy at the time. 

I would be grateful if people didn't use my comments to score points or to support positions against Moon Design/Chaosium/Issaries/The Design Mechanism/Mongoose/Alephtar Games/D101 Games or any of the other great companies who are supporting D100-style games.

My opinions are that of a glorified fanboy and nothing more. Treat them the same as you would someone in your gaming group or someone you meet at a games convention. You wouldn't quote a conversation you had with someone at your gaming table, so why quote me?

[soltakss]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

That was from 11 years ago. And was a fan policy from Issaries (which no longer exists), not Moon Design, and not Chaosium. And a fan policy that Rick and I in fact were responsible for gutting and later ending.

And thank you for doing that.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

5 hours ago, Baron said:

I've also heard rumors (for those who might be relatively new) that a lot of fan-made material was ordered removed from the net by the powers that were at the time.

Baron has a point, and I don't think he's pointing fingers at Chaosium in particular. The less-than-clear Issaries fan policy did scare or disgruntle a lot of fans into removing most of what was quite a rich and diverse spectrum of RuneQuest fan content. There are still a few link lists around that show a glimpse of how much there was, very impressive especially given the relative youth of the intertubes at the time (dial-up!). The licence evolved over the years but the earliest version definitely caused many people to believe (rightly or wrongly) that they would have to make substantial changes to make their site comply with the licence - not something people who are only doing this for fun are likely to consider worth the effort. I'm certainly not about to castigate Greg for attempting to protect his intellectual property,! It was just the way it was done that had unfortunate (and, I think, unforeseen) consequences. It also came at a time when games companies in general were coming down on what in more innocent eras were considered an essential part of the hobby, i.e. unofficial and unsanctioned materials such as magazines, fanzines, and websites. The disappearance of so many of those sites in a short period certainly forcibly ended my interest in Glorantha, and I moved on to other pastures.

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

That was from 11 years ago. And was a fan policy from Issaries (which no longer exists), not Moon Design, and not Chaosium. And a fan policy that Rick and I in fact were responsible for gutting and later ending.

In that case the RPG community owe you both a debt! I've been wondering, does Chaosium now have a fan policy? Or does the Moon Design one still apply?

[evilgaz]

So, has anyone got a map of Sun County?  There's the one in the front of Sun County I can scan in, but was looking for more detail, or even better a sexy one with drawings and cool stuff (either fan made or otherwise).

Thanks!

[Baron]

http://www.etyries.com/rants/hate.htm
This hate is, of course, linked to the latest incarnation of the "official policy on fan publications", together with the website policy, Duck Point Press, the various Approval schemes, and other stiflers of creativity.

http://www.soltakss.com/newpavis.html
However, this map has now been taken down, following instructions from Moon Design...