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A Question About Heortling Steads


SNaomiScott

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On 3/22/2016 at 5:16 PM, styopa said:

 

I think Martin's sketches - as much as they may not be canonical - are terrific.  I'm adopting them.  How far one needs to go down the rabbit-hole of canon is entirely subjective anyway, quadruply so in Greg Stafford's world....

Martin's sketches are pretty darn close to canonical and are being used as art references right now.

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On 3/2/2016 at 9:45 AM, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Thanks, thats exactly what i was looking for.

A quick comparison and I see a few minor but sensible changes:

  • The Sheriff (or Sheruff), has become a Thane, in keeping with the Glorantha setting.
  • The weapon masters guild hall has been removed completely.
  • The "housemasters guild" changed to the humbler "Stables"

I guess "guild" has too many medieval connotations, not suitable to the ancient setting of Glorantha.

Overall Apple lane remains largerly the same, but without those few medieval associations. I can see how it works in the Gloranthan context now much more clearly. I can also see what a red hearing the 3rd edition cover was, with the medieval plate armoured Donald duck ( Quack John),  as well as the wording  "Save the Hamlet from Scurrilous Scoundrels", which sounds like it could have come from the pages of Robin Hood.

While guilds may superficially look like utterly medieval trade associations, in fact there have been similar associations since Sumer and they are common to pretty much every urban society.  You even find guilds in Japan, Persia, Egypt, Rome, China, Thailand and India albeit with a few interesting cultural nuances.  For example China's Tongs and Japan's yakuza syndicates began life as guilds, with the same religious connotations as the European guild's use of Patron Saints, except they were primarily Buddhist but became increasingly criminal in their orientation due to oppression from above, becoming proto-resistance movements.  As Sartar's official coin is the "Guilder" it makes sense to have a system of urban guilds in the cities and towns and even into the countryside, probably set up with charters by king Sartar himself, to wisely protect the skill base and production of the Kingdom.  Though I agree that the notion of a weapon master's guild is a bit far fetched.   

As for Sherruffs, initially I utterly hated the concept and saw it as transposing a US model onto a bronze age village when I read it, but after a while I began to see some merit in the idea.  Orlanthi are at best a loose and voluntary confederation, and would take poorly to a heavy handed central authority handing down laws to them.  As Sartar was smarter than that, the notion of the clans appointing a thane to fulfill the role of a royal law enforcer who doesn't interfere in inter-tribal or inter-clan warfare but maintains the peace and harmony between the clan who he effectively serves, and the Kingdom, is a pretty good compromise.  To that end, 20 years ago I included Sherruffs (yep, complete with the mis-spelling) as an official part of the Kingdom of Sartar. My players were Tovtari who lived in a water stead about 2 miles from Ironspike, but Ironspike had a sherruff up until Sartar was conquered in 1602 (the game started in 1594 from memory).  Sherruffs had to have the courage of Orlanth, the skill of Humakt, the wisdom of Lhankor Mhy and the golden tongue of Issaries.  Even the clan kings deferred to them, and because they had to work together so often, many sherruffs colluded together to end clan feuds and sew notions of nationhood among their clans.  The notion of a lone lawman isn't out of character with the Orlanthi way at all, though it does speak to an earlier time in RQ.  I found and transcribed my old notes on Sherruffs today.   Feel free to hate on it, the game was a long time ago.  Please find the file attached below:

Sherruffs.pdf

Edited by Darius West
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This fan-made info on Sheruffs is great, including continuing the mispelling! This helps keep the Sheruff in the Apple Lane setting, and can be used for any village in Sartar.

Thanks for posting!

Edited by Mankcam

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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6 hours ago, Darius West said:

As for Sherruffs, initially I utterly hated the concept and saw it as transposing a US model onto a bronze age village when I read it, but after a while I began to see some merit in the idea.  

Sheriff has an Anglo-Saxon origin, much like other Orlanthi terns such as thane or fyrd. As an official (a 'shire reeve') appointed by a king to keep the peace, it fits quite well into tribal Orlanthi culture. 8-)

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Imagine going to a  Lego exhibition and seeing Pavis & The Big Rubble fully set up, how awesome would that be!

Edited by Mankcam
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" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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I had a go at New Pavis and Real City at about 1 pip to 10m, I'm thinking of trying New Pavis at 1 pip to 4m which might make the pitched roofs and alleys a little more manageable.  Appropriately, Sun Town being on a different grid is a royal pain in the arse. I might need to think more about the slope of the land this time. In the first one, I just put in a two plate rise on the skew for Rich Hill, but I assume that the land slopes down from founders market to Dorasar's walls and up from there to New Pavis Temple and Rich Hill.

I'm going to need some more bricks...

NewNewPavis.jpg

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  • 3 years later...
Just now, Akhôrahil said:

I really like this Icelandic longhouse - it's a bit different from more southern ones, and you can really tell that this is someplace where you need to care about the climate (lots of stone, earth and turf). Plus it looks seriously defensible.Reconstructed viking longhouse at Stöng (Þjóðveldisbærinn)… | Flickr
The Long House (Skáli) at Stöng, Iceland. | Download Scientific ...

But the Icelandic longhouse is built to reflect the resources and conditions of Iceland, and a tradition of housebuilding style from Scandinavia and Northern Europe.

It really doesn't make any sense for Dragon Pass, with its traditions coming from the Holy Country and Peloria.

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3 minutes ago, Jeff said:

But the Icelandic longhouse is built to reflect the resources and conditions of Iceland, and a tradition of housebuilding style from Scandinavia and Northern Europe.

It really doesn't make any sense for Dragon Pass, with its traditions coming from the Holy Country and Peloria.

I was thinking more of more rustic and colder Talastar for this. D:LoD has longhouses, and I don't think it's been retconned.

Edited by Akhôrahil
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4 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I was thinking more of more rustic and colder Talastar for this. D:LoD has longhouses, and I don't think it's been retconned.

Certainly the homes seen in the RuneQuest Colouring Book's depiction of Riskland would seem to be similar, looking like a sod house.

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Longhouse plus additional houses or double long houses make perfectly sensible square enclosures, and may evolve into huge atrium houses as masons and masonry become more available and the wealth transported through Sartar trickles down to the natives.

The use of earthen sods for wall construction may be used for loom houses or similar structures. It might be a remnant of Greater Darkness survival turned into a way to build holy places.

Building with grass sods is a good way to have walls lasting for a millennium - the ring wall of Hedeby and its connection to the rest of the Danewerk is a good destination should anybody happen to come into the region where I live and work, and I'll probably be able to provide some native guidance. Similar ramparts from the La Tene era are surviving in Bavarian forests e.g. near Munich - squarish "Keltenschanzen". These may be harder to find.

In places with regular precipitation and storms, this material certainly beats un-baked clay bricks for construction, and it surrounds the interior with living soil, surely an advantage for Ernalda magic, right?

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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33 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The use of earthen sods for wall construction may be used for loom houses or similar structures. It might be a remnant of Greater Darkness survival turned into a way to build holy places.

I'm not sure where I saw it, but I really like the idea that loom houses are cubical and built halfway into the ground - basically, you start by digging out a half-cube in the ground (this is something the men can do, too!).  

33 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Longhouse plus additional houses or double long houses make perfectly sensible square enclosures, and may evolve into huge atrium houses as masons and masonry become more available and the wealth transported through Sartar trickles down to the natives.

Agree. And while tradition and runic resonance matter, there's probably not that big of a magical effect of having your house maximally square, especially not if it clashes with practicality. Some minor effort to keep it mostly kinda square goes a long way, and can be achieved easily the way you say.

33 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Building with grass sods is a good way to have walls lasting for a millennium - the ring wall of Hedeby and its connection to the rest of the Danewerk is a good destination should anybody happen to come into the region where I live and work, and I'll probably be able to provide some native guidance. Similar ramparts from the La Tene era are surviving in Bavarian forests e.g. near Munich - squarish "Keltenschanzen". These may be harder to find.

In places with regular precipitation and storms, this material certainly beats un-baked clay bricks for construction, and it surrounds the interior with living soil, surely an advantage for Ernalda magic, right?

I would be unsurprised if the further you get out into the sticks, the more practicality determines form. For instance, I would assume that the entire reason for the longhouse is that it provides a lot of internal space while still using easier building techniques than achieving the same floor area in a square building? Also, when it's cold and up in the hills, keeping up the heating becomes a lot more important than maintaining traditional building styles, even if you think those are classier. This is why I like serious Nordic longhouses up in Talastar. In my Risklands campaign, I did describe Sartar as more of Switzerland and Talastar as more of Scandinavia when it comes to climate and styles, and I moved to more of a Nordic bronze age there (longhouses aren't just Viking - it's almost ridiculous how you have Danish longhouses for millennia with the same basic design idea, because it's just that good).  

Big fan of your Noricum suggestions for Sartar, too. That fits me a lot better than going all-out Mycene.

Edited by Akhôrahil
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34 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I'm not sure where I saw it, but I really like the idea that loom houses are cubical and built halfway into the ground - basically, you start by digging out a half-cube in the ground (this is something the men can do, too!).  

Possibly in @M Helsdon's excellent Jonstown Compendium publication "Temples & Towers"?

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38 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I'm not sure where I saw it, but I really like the idea that loom houses are cubical and built halfway into the ground - basically, you start by digging out a half-cube in the ground (this is something the men can do, too!).  

That would be the Temple to Ernalda in Temples and Towers.

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