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A Question About Heortling Steads


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1 hour ago, Salla said:

I love this thread.

I must ask re the Esrolian houses, why do the Oxen need stalls? 

For winters when it gets significantly lower than freezing, and to avoid exposure to predators. Also, they double as breathing generators of warmth.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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3 hours ago, Salla said:

I love this thread.

I must ask re the Esrolian houses, why do the Oxen need stalls? 

The Sartarite rural houses mostly include (the cottar has no oxen, so no stalls) stalls because it's traditional, even in longhouses, to have an area for livestock. Oxen are valuable; without them land can't be sown, and given the Sartarite tendency to cattle raiding, keeping them close is only sensible. I haven't included a livestock area for the urban houses, though some might include stables for horses or other riding animals.

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I like really the flavour of the Orlanthi houses above. I am happy with these designs, and they certainly feel right for Esrolians, Sartarites, Tarshites, and New Pavisites. 

However I wonder if Orlanthi in other regions are into masonry to the same extent?

It strikes me that the Wenelian Orlanthi  (Ditali, Solanthi, Nimistori) may make more use of timber perhaps, given it is such a heavily wooded region The general layout would be similar, although I could easily see them having square timber houses in villages surrounded by wooden pallistrades.

I know this may not be canon, but I tend to envision the Wenelian Orlanthi having a few norse trappings mixed with Dacian, probably on account of Greymane reminding me of an old norse raider. 

I like how the Orlanthi are shaping up, 'The Coming Storm' sounds like it's gonna be pretty good

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12 hours ago, Mankcam said:

I like really the flavour of the Orlanthi houses above. I am happy with these designs, and they certainly feel right for Esrolians, Sartarites, Tarshites, and New Pavisites. 

However I wonder if Orlanthi in other regions are into masonry to the same extent?

It strikes me that the Wenelian Orlanthi  (Ditali, Solanthi, Nimistori) may make more use of timber perhaps, given it is such a heavily wooded region The general layout would be similar, although I could easily see them having square timber houses in villages surrounded by wooden pallistrades.

I know this may not be canon, but I tend to envision the Wenelian Orlanthi having a few norse trappings mixed with Dacian, probably on account of Greymane reminding me of an old norse raider. 

I like how the Orlanthi are shaping up, 'The Coming Storm' sounds like it's gonna be pretty good

The houses of New Pavis differ a little, as I understand it because of the difference in climate: less rainfall so flat roofs are more likely. I suspect Sartarite architecture isn't just influenced by Esrolian, but by the masonry work Sartar and his descendants obtained from the Mostali. Regarding variations in style elsewhere: I can't say. However, as always the availability of materials and the environment will be a factor.

One thing: the rural houses aren't depicted with their surroundings: there are likely to be other barns, sheds and outbuildings, and in many parts of Sartar farmsteads cluster in steadfasts (heavily fortified villages) with twelve foot high ramparts as a defense against the Telmori.

 

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The problem with dwarf masonry is that they hardly ever build aboveground buildings - there is the Petra-like entrance to Dwarf Mine, and there are probably a few portals to Greatway. I can imagine stone dams to capture mountain creeks for water power, but that's about what I expect in above-ground building activities. Fortification walls are known and used, and raising them overnight (like the wall dividing the Boldhome valley from Killard Vale) might be a standard dwarf tactic for the rare instance of them fighting field battles.

Dwarves use quarried blocks of rock, but they also carve entire structures out of standing rock (like the Pockets in Boldhome), or they pour concrete. They even know to fuse rock from various sources into a monolithic structure like the Rubble Wall (containing the big slabs brought Paragua and friends, and much of the body of the Faceless Statue, one of the largest Jolanti ever).

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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41 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The problem with dwarf masonry is that they hardly ever build aboveground buildings - there is the Petra-like entrance to Dwarf Mine, and there are probably a few portals to Greatway. I can imagine stone dams to capture mountain creeks for water power, but that's about what I expect in above-ground building activities. Fortification walls are known and used, and raising them overnight (like the wall dividing the Boldhome valley from Killard Vale) might be a standard dwarf tactic for the rare instance of them fighting field battles.

Dwarves use quarried blocks of rock, but they also carve entire structures out of standing rock (like the Pockets in Boldhome), or they pour concrete. They even know to fuse rock from various sources into a monolithic structure like the Rubble Wall (containing the big slabs brought Paragua and friends, and much of the body of the Faceless Statue, one of the largest Jolanti ever).

All true, but the Sartarites learnt a great deal from the dwarves: Saronil learned from them how to build towers, though the dwarves ceased to aid him (and may have killed him) when he used their knowledge to build a temple to Orlanth; his son Jarolar continued his work and was known as the wall-builder. And then there's the cult of Flintnail in Pavis, which accepts human initiates. For that matter, some dwarf cities within mountains have dwarf-built cities on the surface which humans mistake for the entirety.

Given the exploits of Sartar, and the building by Saronil and Jarolar, it seems the Sartarites did gain a level of engineering and masonry knowledge from the dwarves.

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Ok with that.

But Dorasar founded New Pavis with the help of Ginkizzie, and Olkgarth, and Ingilli... Why all those guys with all their own culture and own kind of house would have built sartarites-like houses ? And why Dorasar would have stick to an esrolian plan ? Because he was so fond of esrolians, especialy after the murder of his cousin... that cause him to self exile ??

Sorry, i can't buy that. I just can't buy that Pavis houses are nothing but a slighly different version of Sartar houses.

 

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40 minutes ago, Didier said:

Ok with that.

But Dorasar founded New Pavis with the help of Ginkizzie, and Olkgarth, and Ingilli... Why all those guys with all their own culture and own kind of house would have built sartarites-like houses ? And why Dorasar would have stick to an esrolian plan ? Because he was so fond of esrolians, especialy after the murder of his cousin... that cause him to self exile ??

Sorry, i can't buy that. I just can't buy that Pavis houses are nothing but a slighly different version of Sartar houses.

 

There are several different types of 'houses' in Pavis: they aren't all Sartarite. This is denoted not only by the different shapes in the map of Pavis but the materials used: adobe, stone, leather and reeds. Sartarite houses tend to be made of the first two.

Dorasar wasn't sticking to an 'Esrolian plan', but a Sartarite one: the ancestors of the Sartarites moved north only a few centuries ago, and retain much of the material culture of their Heortland ancestors.

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I always presumed that the Orlanthi adapted their own architecture to the environment and materials at hand, so I can see why there is a link between the homes of the Orlanthi colonists in New Pavis to that of the houses of the folk living in the Orlanthi homelands. However I also thought that the city would be a hodgepodge of mixed styles, with the next major influence coming from Old Pavisite heritage. Obviously there will be at least a third influence, probably from Oasis People and Riverfolk heritage; I can envision poorer areas with semi-permanent housing made of reed, for instance.

Edited by Mankcam

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2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Dorasar wasn't sticking to an 'Esrolian plan', but a Sartarite one: the ancestors of the Sartarites moved north only a few centuries ago, and retain much of the material culture of their Heortland ancestors.

 

On 7/3/2016 at 3:58 PM, Jeff said:

(...) Given that the Heortlings are from Kethaela, I strongly suspect that their buildings look more Esrolian than folk give credit.

 

Dorasar was Sarotar bound companion, right ? Did Sarotar traveled to Esrolia ? Did Dorastar followed him ? Did he saw esrolian houses ? Did he had enough knowledge in masonery to notice the strong likeness ?

 

By the way, he founded New Pavis, not New Boldhome. He did it with the help of Ginkizzie, the "son" of Flintnail and "grand son" of Pavis. A Gold Dwarf, a teacher and a keeper of lore. What could a Gold Dwarf have taught to a member of a sartarite family who was already familiar with some dwarven secrets about building. Well, plans of Old Pavis houses and the way to build them, maybe ? The kind of houses well adapted to Prax...

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13 hours ago, Didier said:

Dorasar was Sarotar bound companion, right ? Did Sarotar traveled to Esrolia ? Did Dorastar followed him ? Did he saw esrolian houses ? Did he had enough knowledge in masonery to notice the strong likeness ?

Why should Dorasar be interested in Esrolian houses? Many of the houses built in New Pavis were built by Sartarites, using Sartarite traditions.

Sartarites would know of their Heortland antecedents and their long shared history with Esrolia. Bear in mind that these cultures are close, both historically and geographically.

 

13 hours ago, Didier said:

By the way, he founded New Pavis, not New Boldhome. He did it with the help of Ginkizzie, the "son" of Flintnail and "grand son" of Pavis. A Gold Dwarf, a teacher and a keeper of lore. What could a Gold Dwarf have taught to a member of a sartarite family who was already familiar with some dwarven secrets about building. Well, plans of Old Pavis houses and the way to build them, maybe ? The kind of houses well adapted to Prax...

I'm not entirely certain what you are suggesting. If you are interested in the history of architecture, you'll find that settlers tend to retain their traditions, adapted by the availability of building supplies, and local tradition. It's inevitable that Sartarites would transfer their styles and techniques as much as they were able to a new colony.

Regarding houses well adapted to Prax, New Pavis was also settled by Sun Domers from Sun County who had been living in Prax for centuries. Old Pavis was a ruin (lots of ruins) and the bits still inhabited by humans in the Big Rubble such as the 'Real City' or Mani's Fort aren't overly impressive, architecturally, but the result of make do and mend for centuries. if you look at a map, you'll find that New Pavis is much smaller than Old Pavis, and its buildings appear to be far less grand than those in ruin.

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It has been suggested to look at images of folk from Thracian, Dacian, Halstatt, and Mycenaean origin for assistance portraying the Orlanthi.

Dacians, Halstatt Kelts, and Thracians seemed to be a great fit for the kind of Orlanthi that are being described now.

However I initially thought that Mycenaeans were an odd choice, but this notion was obscured by my impressions of Hellenic Greece which, of course, historically occurred much later.

My knowledge deficit here was my shortfall, as there are certainly many aspects of Mycenaean culture that do seem to mesh quite well for analogies for Orlanthi. Whilst this may not be the case in every Mycenaean depiction, there is many facets that obviously have influenced current depictions of the Orlanthi people.

56e1f8a2e5f33_OrlanthiHouses6.JPG.bf925d

Here is a picture of Mycenaean Warriors which appears more or less consistent with contemporary Orlanthi descriptions. Note some of the clothing styles, as well as the architecture in the background which seems to be along the lines of the building depictions that have been discussed above:

Warriors.jpg

Here's a link to some info on Mycenaean men, some of which which I can see pertaining to the Orlanthi in many ways: http://helens-daughter.livejournal.com/10233.html

All this seems to be vaguely along the lines of my early impressions of Orlanthi during the late RQ2/early RQ3 period, before the more celtic, saxon, and norse influences were permeated through the late RQ3/HeroWars/HeroQuest 1 era of Gloranthan publications.

I do like what I see here

 

Edited by Mankcam
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11 hours ago, Mankcam said:

Here is a picture of Mycenaean Warriors which appears more or less consistent with contemporary Orlanthi descriptions. Note some of the clothing styles, as well as the architecture in the background which seems to be along the lines of the building depictions that have been discussed above:

Warriors.jpg

Here's a link to some info on Mycenaean men, some of which which I can see pertaining to the Orlanthi in many ways: http://helens-daughter.livejournal.com/10233.html

All this seems to be vaguely along the lines of my early impressions of Orlanthi during the late RQ2/early RQ3 period, before the more celtic, saxon, and norse influences were permeated through the late RQ3/HeroWars/HeroQuest 1 era of Gloranthan publications.

I do like what I see here

 

I do have a copy of the book, and did use the archaeological house plans of Mycenaean and Minoan houses from elsewhere in my versions of Jeff's outlines. The main differences were the outer balconies, which don't appear to match the descriptions of Esrolian and Sartarite houses. Instead, I assumed these might be inward, facing the inner courtyard.

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12 hours ago, Mankcam said:

It has been suggested to look at images of folk from Thracian, Dacian, Halstatt, and Mycenaean origin for assistance portraying the Orlanthi.

Dacians, Halstatt Kelts, and Thracians seemed to be a great fit for the kind of Orlanthi that are being described now.

However I initially thought that Mycenaeans were an odd choice, but this notion was obscured by my impressions of Hellenic Greece which, of course, historically occurred much later.

My knowledge deficit here was my shortfall, as there are certainly many aspects of Mycenaean culture that do seem to mesh quite well for analogies for Orlanthi. Whilst this may not be the case in every Mycenaean depiction, there is many facets that obviously have influenced current depictions of the Orlanthi people.

56e1f8a2e5f33_OrlanthiHouses6.JPG.bf925d

Here is a picture of Mycenaean Warriors which appears more or less consistent with contemporary Orlanthi descriptions. Note some of the clothing styles, as well as the architecture in the background which seems to be along the lines of the building depictions that have been discussed above:

Warriors.jpg

Here's a link to some info on Mycenaean men, some of which which I can see pertaining to the Orlanthi in many ways: http://helens-daughter.livejournal.com/10233.html

All this seems to be vaguely along the lines of my early impressions of Orlanthi during the late RQ2/early RQ3 period, before the more celtic, saxon, and norse influences were permeated through the late RQ3/HeroWars/HeroQuest 1 era of Gloranthan publications.

I do like what I see here

 

Really glad to see Glorantha returning to its Bronze Age mythical feel. The Norse/ Saxon/ Celtic Britain thing really didn't feel right for Glorantha, but for some reason was the dominant depiction of Orlanthi for a while. Very pleased to see it returning to a more classical Bronze Age setting. Much more like RQ2, which had so much appeal originally.

Same goes for the west, which when I read the rq3 supplements was medieval. Odd how it went so off track, but great it appears to have been righted now.

Thanks Jeff and co for bringing back the appeal for me of this great setting. With a new Runequest, and Glorantha realigned I'll be eagerly waiting for future publications. 

 

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I really do like the Norse/Saxon/Celtic flavour, but it just doesn't feel the best fit for kingdoms like Sartar, Esrolia, or Tarsh. In my Glorantha I will probably give the Manirian Theylans a little of this flavour. Being such a heavy forested region I will probably give them square timber houses with villages fortified by wooden pallistrades. They need to feel different from their Esrolian neighbours in some ways, and a few Norse trappings added to a Dacian core may work well for them. 

However if I really want to get my teeth into the whole Norse/Saxon/Celtic thing I will use RQ6/Mythras to play MRQ2 Vikings or Mythic Britain.

For Dragon Pass and Holy Country  these Thraco-Dacian Mycenaean references work better from my way of thinking. Most of the HW/HQ depictions of the cultures just seemed too Celtic for me. 

When Dragon Pass Land Of Thunder was published I was pleasantly surprised to see some cities with stone walls and such, and there was a return to the Mycenaean undercurrent (although there was also some medieval artwork that was plain wrong).

Then when the two more recent Sartar books were published I was a little confused as most of the artwork seemed back on track having a Bronze Age flavour, while some of the artwork still retained a more Saxon/celtic influenced depiction, mainly with things like background buildings and such; it's no wonder that people have established different ideas of these cultures over the years.

Yes it's good to see authors and artists working together to create a distinct vision of Glorantha.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mankcam

" Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!"

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1 hour ago, Mankcam said:

I really do like the Norse/Saxon/Celtic flavour, but it just doesn't feel the best fit for kingdoms like Sartar, Esrolia, or Tarsh. In my Glorantha I will probably give the Wenelian Theylans a little of this flavour. Being such a heavy forested region I will probably give them square timber houses with villages fortified by wooden pallistrades. They need to feel different from their Esrolian neighbours in some ways, and a few Norse trappings added to a Dacian core may work well for them. 

However if I really want to get my teeth into the whole Norse/Saxon/Celtic thing I will use RQ6/Mythras to play MRQ2 Vikings or Mythic Britain.

For Dragon Pass and Holy Country  these Thraco-Dacian Mycenaean references work better from my way of thinking. Most of the HW/HQ depictions of the cultures just seemed too Celtic for me. 

When the Dragon Pass gazetteer was published I was pleasantly surprised to see cities with stone walls and such, and there was a return to the Mycenaean undercurrent. However when the two Sartar books were published I was a little confused as most of the artwork seemed back on track having a Bronze Age flavour, while some of the artwork still retained a more Saxon/celtic influenced depiction, mainly with things like background buildings and such; it's no wonder that people have established different ideas of these cultures over the years.

Yes it's good to see authors and artists working together to create a distinct vision of Glorantha.

I'm glad someone thinks that.

I think the northern European look and influence, was firmly there from King of Satar, King of Dragon pass and early Heroquest Stuff.

What we are now seeing is a change of emphasis and vision, which isn't wrong, but it is a change.

However in my opinion commercial games need both consistency and accessibility, i'm not sure current vision is giving either. 

Fine if its a pet project for 40 and 50 year old guys who have been gaming 30 years and love arguing about discussing there ancient history.

If you looking at introducing games to new younger players we may be getting a little esoteric. 

An opinion that is probably as popular as a fart in a space suits, but its mine.

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56 minutes ago, Jon Hunter said:

I think the northern European look and influence, was firmly there from King of Satar, King of Dragon pass and early Heroquest Stuff.

What we are now seeing is a change of emphasis and vision, which isn't wrong, but it is a change.

However in my opinion commercial games need both consistency and accessibility, i'm not sure current vision is giving either. 

I missed most of the early HeroWars/HeroQuest period so my Glorantha always reflected Luise Perrene's illustrations (which are more Classical Greece than Ancient Greece) and the better art of RQ3, so when I got back into Glorantha the more Northern European (and Mesopotamian) emphasis looked decidedly odd to me.

56 minutes ago, Jon Hunter said:

If you looking at introducing games to new younger players we may be getting a little esoteric. 

I suspect that new/younger players won't be affected by the look, or the changes in depiction. They are all ancient cultures and the coverage of ancient cultures is pretty sparse in most education systems.

56 minutes ago, Jon Hunter said:

An opinion that is probably as popular as a fart in a space suits, but its mine.

Not a problem. I'm a heretic regarding some things Gloranthan.

For instance, I found the Ernalda House idea a bit odd, so I decided to look at ancient houses (none quite match the layout, though there were a few palace complexes with the same sort of layout) and then try manipulating actual ancient house plans to fit. It wasn't hard to assume the houses built under a different ethos, imposing the Earth Rune, and so far as I can see, from playing with those architectural outlines, they seem to work. There's also an aspect to the Esrolian House I noticed whilst reading Esrolia: TLoTTG to gain extra information, which I won't mention here, that gives it even more mythic import than being based on an Earth Rune...

However, I don't believe all houses in Dragon Pass and nearby are all exactly to the same style. The 'Northern European' longhouse was really a widespread template in the real world, and personally I suspect it is still widely present in Dragon Pass.

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Glorantha did have a more Bronze Age flavour in the 1980s and early 1990s. However the Norse/Celtic Orlanthi have been a big thing since about the year 2000, so it is understandable why people who were introduced to Glorantha during that period feel a little unhappy now.

I think there needs to be compromise and middle ground. Whilst I very much agree with Dragon Pass / Holy Country having Orlanthi with Thraco-Dacian & Mycenean influences, I think other regions will have different flavours. As I previously said, the Manirians could be a mix of Dacian-Norse for instance. It would certainly fit the description of the Solanthi raiding parties loosely united under Greymane's banner. Also in a heavily forested region I believe that timber would be a mainstay of building structure rather than masonry.

And unless there will be more resources published for this region, then that's exactly how I am running my Orlanthi from Wenelia.

So I think there is a lot of wiggle room in Glorantha. However I do welcome the return of the Mycenaean influences in Dragon Pass and especially in Holy Country. 

 

Edited by Mankcam

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5 hours ago, Mankcam said:

Glorantha did have a more Bronze Age flavour in the 1980s and early 1990s. However the Norse/Celtic Orlanthi have been a big thing since about the year 2000, so it is understandable why people who were introduced to Glorantha during that period feel a little unhappy now.

Glorantha always had an Iron Age flavor. Metallurgy got stuck on bronze, but made up for that by making bronze as widely available as bog iron is in our own history.

We have a world of coins, actually paved roads, permanent bridges - all inventions of the Iron Age. Literacy, fortified cities, metal armor all were developments of the closing Bronze Age.

 

Those "Norse" influences actually were Anglo-Saxon ones. There is a cultural continuity in Europe away from the Mediterranean since the introduction of domestic cattle (at least in material culture) from the Neolithic to the Viking Age, broken only by Romanisation and later Christianisation. We have few enough written sources on the life of the "barbarians", so we toss together what the Greek historians, Tacitus, Bede, Alfred of Wessex and the Viking/imperial Saxon chroniclers (including two islamic travel logs) offer in terms of written reports.

As to the use of "Celts" - in the early 1990s I argued to make the Orlanthi like the Danubian Celts, namely those of the Hallstatt culture. I had no idea then that a majority of the English roleplayers would misread "Celts" for "Old Irish".

Two facets of the Irish heroic age have made it into the Orlanthi canon. Cattle as currency (not mentioned in any sources on continental practices - the iceland saga instances of wergeld which we assume to have carried over from the continental Norse use bags of silver measured by weight instead) and the wergeld catalogue (which basically adds a price tag to Old Testament's "an eye for an eye").

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Mankcam said:

I think there needs to be compromise and middle ground. Whilst I very much agree with Dragon Pass / Holy Country having Orlanthi with Thraco-Dacian & Mycenean influences, I think other regions will have different flavours.

I am willing to allow for less uniformity across the various populations of Orlanthi in the region. The History of the Heortling Peoples distinguishes between six Orlanthi population groups in Heortland - Esvulari, Pelaskites, Esrolians, Highlanders, refugees from Dragon Pass, and Hendriki as the ruling group. These groups are named in the early Second Age context of Aventus giving the foreigner laws, but again distinguished in the travelogue of the post-Machine War God Learner sorcerers, four centuries later. I don't see why another four centuries (until the Resettlement of Dragon Pass) would have eradicated these differences, or why the clans of Sartar should be uniform in their practices. House raising is men's business, so the cross-marriages of the wives doesn't influence what form the family hearth gets, especially since usually the new wife is marrying into the extended family of the husband and doesn't become steadmistress simultaneously with the marriage.

 

5 hours ago, Mankcam said:

As I previously said, the Wenelians could be a mix of Dacian-Norse for instance. It would certainly fit the description of the Solanthi raiding parties loosely united under Greymane's banner.

It might be my national stereotyping, but when I think about raiders from forested river valleys, I think of the slavs south of the Baltic. However, Greymane and his kin have some Pendali heritage, so we need to add in some exiled former city lord lion-brother element that is somehow hard to find in Real World history. While lions were common enough in Bronze Age Greece that Herakles is known as a lion-slayer, I know of no warriors of that region (or the Balkans) who had lion-themed totems or similar. Naming Alexander the Great the Lion of Macedon doesn't really count, and I have no idea whether this was just modern fiction about Alexander or whether it was an ancient epithet.

 

5 hours ago, Mankcam said:

Also in a heavily forested region I believe that timber would be a mainstay of building structure rather than masonry.

The Pendali-ruled -ket cities of Old Seshnela apparently had masonry, but that may have been the work of their demi-siblings, the Likiti, who took them on as lords when the Darkness came. (Basically, all cities ending on -ket in Old Seshnela suggest a pagan founder, while those ending on -wal suggest a Malkioni founder.)

I don't want to suggest that Greymane has a hall of masonry. Some dry-stone wall construction might be in order, though - but that could be done for any other Orlanthi group with ties to a predecessor group of earth worshippers (and which Orlanthi group does not?) just as well.

 

5 hours ago, Mankcam said:

And unless there will be more resources published for this region, then that's exactly how I am running my Orlanthi from Wenelia.

I am curious about your Norse elements. Could you elaborate them a bit?

 

5 hours ago, Mankcam said:

So I think there is a lot of wiggle room in Glorantha. However I do welcome the return of the Mycenaean influences in Dragon Pass and especially in Holy Country. 

Despite being rather cramped geographically, there is ample wiggle room, and a multitude of eligible influences.

IMO there is a Kitori/Ezkankekko style of architecture that has been imitated by the Esrolians of Nochet after Kimantor built them their cyclopean wall and infrastructure, and which appears to have been used for the original site of the Pelaskite city of Karse, too. I would be surprised if one of the foreigner laws groups of Heortland had not used that style for their housing.

 

I don't think the Pelaskites themselves would qualify, though - I see them as mainly shore-dwellers, probably on low terps, with some artificial coast like on these pictures of the Holm in Schleswig. Their houses are most likely wooden - after all they are expert boat builders, so some solid carpentry should be within their abilities.

 

(I picture Seapolis as a variant of the Rorbu fishing huts of the Lofoten. Other coastal settlements on the estuaries might resemble the Bodensee stilthouses. That rorbu picture might actually show the expanding port side of Karse in the decade after the Opening, after some adaptations to the previous image from the Pfahlbaumuseum at Bodensee.)

20140805194457-c215d5bc-cu_s9999x200.jpg

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330px-Pfahlbauten_Unteruhldingen_2005_05.jpg

image.aspx.jpg

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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Orlanthi are Orlanthi and should look like Orlanthi.

Vikings are Vikings and should look like Vikings. Celts are Celts and should look like Celts. Same goes for Dark Age Germanic tribes. 

Orlanthi shouldn't look like Viking, Celts, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Frisians, Franks or whatever.

I appreciate that some people build up a mental image of what cultures look like, but my mental image of Orlanthi is of wild men with tattoos and trews, normally carrying a spear/sword/axe and shield. 

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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