New RQ Designer Notes - Part 4

[MOB]

In his latest designer notes, Jeff talks about what's happening to Rune Magic in the new RQ: 

http://www.chaosium.com/blog/designing-the-new-runequest-part-4

[Noita]

Like it.

[Joerg]

Given that I just wrote something along a very similar line here, I can say that I am quite happy with this turn of the rules.

But does this mean that the temple size requirements to get access to special spells in RQ3 have been dropped? I liked the incentive to make a pilgrimage to a greater congregation to acquire the (counterintuitively named) "common" rune spells (which were uncommon as a result of these restrictions, though held in common by many cults) as well as exotic specialty ones from subcults or allied cults.

Basically: do I get access to all the spells of Orlanth anywhere on Glorantha, or do I get access to a subset defined by my local temple (often synonymous with my clan wyter)? Are the subcults back as add-on-options for exotic rune spells, possibly as a one-time expenditure of an extra point of POW?

So the opposed traits add up to 100%. Is that still true for illuminated characters? I could imagine that Lunar illuminates following e.g. Hon-eel's ways would be able to raise both their fertility and death ratings, while draconic mystics might aim at creating a grey, passionless middle ground to avoid entanglement. A similar effect could result from a sorcerer tapping one of those runes or other such detrimental encounters (vampires, wraiths, diseases, undeath).

[Noita]

I presume this means we will get a new cult book too?

[hkokko]

This looks pretty nice, 

Might be even too much magic but definitely a really nice step 

I would limit it by what Joerg suggests above - subset defined by local. Pilgrimages to holy sites and temples are one important part...

How would Thanatari's work...

 

 

 

[Joerg]

Given all the work Jeff has already put into the Gods compendium as companion work to the Guide, we might find ourselves with a book of rune spells rules that happen to match the names for the deities' magics in that book. I expect an extensive but far from exhaustive list of rune spells in the rules, and companion books in the future of RQG giving more detail on cults, more spells, and magic for deities not yet mentioned in the rulesbook.

[jongjom]

At first look this appears to be elegant and intuitive. Let's hope it plays well as it looks, and that the rules obey the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid!).

One question about the rules: what happens about the other Runes (e.g. Plant, Dragonewt, Spirit, Chaos, and the Condition Runes: Mastery, Infinity, Magic)?

[MOB]

10 minutes ago, jongjom said:

At first look this appears to be elegant and intuitive. Let's hope it plays well as it looks, and that the rules obey the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid!).

One question about the rules: what happens about the other Runes (e.g. Plant, Dragonewt, Spirit, Chaos, and the Condition Runes: Mastery, Infinity, Magic)?

The Runes depicted on the proto-character sheet are for a beginning human player character. Non human characters may have other Runes. It is also possible to gain (as well as lose!) Runic affinities during the course of play.

[Runeblogger]

I like this because it's very similar to the homebrew system we adopted for RQ3.
So an Issaries initiate can start the game with an affinity to the trade rune?

Powerful spells like Sever Spirit could be only available to rune-level, or maybe to those whose rune affinity surpasses 90%?

[kpmcdona]

The new approach sounds very cool to me - simple and flavorful.

It sounds like rune priests might recharge slower than they currently do, though. I haven't checked, but don't rune level characters currently recharge all their reusable rune spells with a single worship at any temple regardless of size?

Another thought I had was that I don't here "sacrifice" in this description. I thought that sacrifice was a big part of ancient world worship. Should the player sacrifice something at worship? Should the size of the sacrifice matter?

[Runeblogger]

Oh, and another thing: there should be a cap to the amount of POW that a PC of a certain level (lay/initiate/runeleve/priest) can sacrifice for RPs.

[jongjom]

9 minutes ago, Runeblogger said:

Oh, and another thing: there should be a cap to the amount of POW that a PC of a certain level (lay/initiate/runeleve/priest) can sacrifice for RPs.

Maybe. A cap adds complexity, and doesn't solve the problem of building up enough Rune Spells (Points) to qualify for Rune Level.

[Charles VA]

This Rune Magic system seems like an expanded, formulaic if you will, Divine Intervention system. Will Divine Intervention, as a spell or an action, continue to exist?

[Jeff]

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

But does this mean that the temple size requirements to get access to special spells in RQ3 have been dropped? I liked the incentive to make a pilgrimage to a greater congregation to acquire the (counterintuitively named) "common" rune spells (which were uncommon as a result of these restrictions, though held in common by many cults) as well as exotic specialty ones from subcults or allied cults.

Temple size does limit the range of spells you have access to. If you want to get the full range of special spells known in common by all variations of the cult, you need to go to a minor temple for at least one major holy day a year. If you want to get the full range of special spells, plus common magic, plus a subcult's special spell or an associate god's special spell, you need to go to a major temple for at least one major holy day a year (and identify which subcult you are participating in). And so on. This is really easy to do with cults like Orlanth and Ernalda, where every clan has a minor temple and every tribe a major temple (and great temples are plentiful). Much harder to do with smaller cults like Humakt or Storm Bull or Lhankor Mhy, where minor temples can be few and far between, and there may be only one great temple in all the world.

[Al.]

My only grizzle is that seems to be much more elegant and streamlined than my own attempt to do something similar

Grrrr

[hkokko]

@Jeff I really like this approach. Question: How would Thanatar work with this. What about Ompalam with Garangordos et al...

[Jeff]

Thanatari heads work the same way as always. They can continue to cast Rune spells until they run out of Rune points (making effectively each spell one use), as they cannot replenish Rune Points.

BTW, Issaries Spell Trading still works and is very useful.

[Sean_RDP]

Looks pretty good. My only thought might be that some of the Rune choices are decided by your culture and cult if you have one right off?  Or is that taken into consideration when the player chooses?

[Baulderstone]

This is a pretty cool system. 

I'm curious how this will interact with the Stealth penalty for having high Power. Sacrificing Power for Rune Points will lower your Stealth penalty, but you will actually be brimming with more magical power and the attention of the gods will be even greater on you. It should be easy enough to deal with. I'm just wondering if it has been worked out yet. 

[Joerg]

6 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Thanatari heads work the same way as always. They can continue to cast Rune spells until they run out of Rune points (making effectively each spell one use), as they cannot replenish Rune Points.

Are you talking about Vivamorti here, Jeff? Last I looked Thanatari were living and breathing, although bad people. Their problem is with the rune points their greater heads may have known, and possibly been able to regain.

6 minutes ago, Jeff said:

BTW, Issaries Spell Trading still works and is very useful.

Basically granting the tradee access to one of the spells known by the trader. Does the trader lose the ability to cast that spell (if it is an Issaries one that he could normally cast reusably)?

Say Biturian had four uses of Path Watch in RQ 2 and traded off one of those. He still would have had three uses left and be able to regain those three if he used them, but he wouldn't have been able to regain a fourth use of Path Watch until the tradee had used it up.

Now, does the trader lose the ability to regain the Rune points worth of spell knowledge traded until the tradee used the spell? The trader still has the spell he traded for one use (or for as many uses/rune points as he traded for), which the tradee cannot regain until the trader used the spell.

[TRose]

 I guess Im in the minority as I never liked the idea you needed to go to a large Temple to renew/get certain spells as it almost forces player to join the larger cults of their area.  For example if you want to be an Ax maiden of Babeestor Gor in a Pavis campaign there are no temple that I know of listed in either Pavis or Sun Country for Babeestor Gor in either place and you  are stuck to shrines in other Earth Temples for spells. So you have to travel to the Paps( IF there a temple there) while the Orlanthi just has to walk across the street to renew his spells.

  Perhaps we could have major temple set up to patheons instead of individual deities so a Worshipper of Heler and or Vinga could renew their spells at the Orlanth temple instead of having to travel to  a specific temple dedicated to them.

[Jeff]

55 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Are you talking about Vivamorti here, Jeff? Last I looked Thanatari were living and breathing, although bad people. Their problem is with the rune points their greater heads may have known, and possibly been able to regain.

I suspect the ONLY Thanatari heads that can replenish Rune points are those of Thanatar cultists. Doesn't matter if they are living or breathing - I don't think you can bring a head into an Orlanth ceremony!

[Joerg]

@TRose I rather have a problem with how long you get to keep spell knowledge you brought back from a Great Temple (or whatever) when you're back at your local shrine. You can regain your rune points at your shrine. Does this allow you to regain rune points you spent for a spell that you got at a Great Temple? I would say yes.

But: As long as you have enough rune points left, there is no reason why you couldn't cast that spell from the great temple again (and again and again), unless we are back to sacrificing for a certain number of uses of a spell.

So say your spell knowledge has a "best before" date. Does this mean that the spell becomes one-use after this date, until you return to the Great Temple for spell renewal? Or do you lose the knowledge without ever having cast that spell? We're talking about a whole bunch of spells here, though - so maybe after the "best before" date you get to use one out of these spells, and lose access to all of them afterwards?

I am inclined to fudge temple size, too.

Let's say you have a shrine (or a consecrated ground) to Babs, and you manage to bring together a huge crowd of initiates and associate cult worshippers beefing up attendance to that of a minor temple. Will this allow you to renew all the spells available to a minor temple? If your doing this on a high holy day, will that change the range of available spells?

[Joerg]

1 minute ago, Jeff said:

I suspect the ONLY Thanatari heads that can replenish Rune points are those of Thanatar cultists. Doesn't matter if they are living or breathing - I don't think you can bring a head into an Orlanth ceremony!

I guess you couldn't. But that's a good reason to take Lunar heads, they are so much more forgiving towards Chaos.

[skoll]

I like it. It makes rune magic more usable while keeping an element of sacrifice to it.

I assume sacrificing your POW decreases it for good. Will there be means to increase it apart from the normal method of increasing stats?