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Personality Mechanics and Gaming


fmitchell

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Harshax gets 1/3 of his wish.

I've seen a few different types of Personality Mechanics:

Mental Disadvantage: Present in HERO, GURPS, and other point-buy systems, a character gets extra character points in exchange for assuming a weakness, usually expressed as a die roll to avoid succumbing. (Example: An "Impulsive" character in GURPS must make a Will roll to engage in any sort of deliberation.) In some systems, the character must take a weakness, or the weakness is a penalty to any related action (e.g. the required "Poor" Quality in PDQ).

Opposed Personality Traits: A staple of Pendragon, a character has two opposed personality traits, e.g. Lusty and Chaste, or Courageous and Cowardly. If the rating for one trait goes up, its opposed trait will go down, and vice versa. The GM may call for a roll against one or another trait if the player wants his character to do something covered by those traits, e.g. the character must succeed in a Chaste roll to refuse the advances of a beautiful woman.

Aspects: In FATE, personality traits use the Aspect rules; you don't get "points" for personality traits, because they're a double-edged sword. For example, a Cowardly person might be first to turn tail, but also has a habit of finding safe places to hide. (The best Aspects are those which have built in upsides and downsides.) Mechanically, in Spirit of the Century, Aspects have three uses:

  1. A player can Invoke an Aspect to add a bonus to a dice roll or reroll a bad roll by spending a Fate Point.

  2. The GM can Compel an aspect to prevent the character from acting by bribing the Player with a Fate Point.

  3. Other players and the GM can also Tap a relevant Aspect of another character, or a situation, also by spending a Fate Point.

(Note that I prefer the "Aspect" version, since it still permits player choice.)

Any others?

Frank

"Welcome to the hottest and fastest-growing hobby of, er, 1977." -- The Laundry RPG
 
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Aspects: In FATE, personality traits use the Aspect rules; you don't get "points" for personality traits, because they're a double-edged sword.

(Note that I prefer the "Aspect" version, since it still permits player choice.)

Aspects sounds like the preferrable way to do it. I think I must read the FATE rules... :rolleyes:

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An alternative I've just introduced to my campaign (so it's little-tested, but seems to be going ok so far) is this:

Characters can have a few traits just like skills. Players can choose (if the GM agrees the situation is relevant - i.e. the character is acting according to the trait) to roll against a trait - success gives x2 for one roll of a skill they were just about to use (that is, it's Easy). Traits get ticks (experience checks) just like skills, but once they have one can't be used again until the increase is rolled for.

If a character blatantly acts against a trait, the GM could bestow an "anti-experience" check for it - for a possible decrease - but that's optional and should be rare. The system is supposed to be "carrot", not "stick" - hopefully enabling, encouraging role-playing, and not overly controlling.

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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An alternative I've just introduced to my campaign (so it's little-tested, but seems to be going ok so far) is this:

Characters can have a few traits just like skills.

This is more or less the idea I'm toying with too - it's similar to the HeroQuest idea. A character can have a handful of such traits if desired - although on the understanding that the character generally behave in accordance with them. A character with "Hate Lunars 50%" will *actually* hate Lunars, for instance.

You can use traits directly as skills, or you can use them as a Complimentary Skill (BRP Zero p50) in appropriate circumstances. You could even use them in appropriate opposed rolls. In the above example, the GM may allow a character with Hate Lunars 50% to gain up to a +10% Complimentary Skill bonus in combat against Lunars - or a -10% penalty in Persuade or other "influence" type skill checks... Or, for example, a character with "Brave 75%", who constantly gets combat attack bonuses for going hell for leather, also gets a combat defense penalty, and has to *fail* a Brave check to be able to run away. GMs can also "gift" particular traits as a result of cult geases, horrific experiences, insanity, heroquests, etc.

This "casual" system feels a lot less like the prescriptive straitjacket which "heavier" systems like Pendragon might be - it's voluntary, lightweight, and relatively informal. Campaign depending, of course.

Cheers,

Sarah

"The Worm Within" - the first novel for The Chronicles of Future Earth, coming 2013 from Chaosium, Inc.

Website: http://sarahnewtonwriter.com | Twitter: @SarahJNewton | Facebook: TheChroniclesOfFutureEarth

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In the Thousand Suns RPG the characters have "hooks", which can be ad-

vantages or disadvantages, and which the GM or the character can "invo-

ke" whenever the situation makes this seem right.

The character then gets an "action point" for this situation, and with one

or more such action points the player can, for example, reroll one roll or

edit the situation in a minor way.

I like the idea, because there is no list of possible hooks, and GM and play-

er can develop these up to five hooks of a character (who can gain or lose

other hooks during the game) together, to design a unique character perso-

nality with a unique roleplaying focus.

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

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Opposed Personality Traits: A staple of Pendragon, a character has two opposed personality traits, e.g. Lusty and Chaste, or Courageous and Cowardly. If the rating for one trait goes up, its opposed trait will go down, and vice versa.
Another version of this was seen in Wyrm's Footprints #14 (and Thieves' World, if I recall correctly). In addition to the polar opposites at either end of the spectrum, there was a rating in the middle that represented mastery over the emotional conflict between the two, and the ability to consciously choose your action over your passionate instinct.

!i!

carbon copy logo smallest.jpg  ...developer of White Rabbit Green

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In addition to the polar opposites at either end of the spectrum, there was a rating in the middle that represented mastery over the emotional conflict between the two, and the ability to consciously choose your action over your passionate instinct.

!i!

I think I saw a version of that used as the basis for dragonewt magic, but can't recall the details. Each spell was based on one set of the polar opposites so when the 'newt used a spell effect his balance shifted towards one of the extremes, which was bad for their development.

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This is more or less the idea I'm toying with too...

You are? That's great! The idea just gained quite some respect in my eyes.

...it's similar to the HeroQuest idea.

It is? Well, ok. Despite that, it's still a considerable net gain of respect! ;)

(BTW, many thanks, Shaira! Last session the party had a brush with Ulega-Bagu and it was a scream. Blackeye had them so scared of darkness that when the demon appeared they voluntarily ran for the safety of daylight, without any Fearshock! Even the Paladin fled (oops, what a give-away - I should say 'RuneLord', shouldn't I?), abandoning his sword. Perhaps he should have got an 'anti-tick' for Bravery... but I'm such a softie.)

(Re: Opposed Traits) Another version of this was seen in Wyrm's Footprints #14 ...

I suspect that was intended for Dragonewts only, though - famously unfathomable and unpredictable. A distinctly prototype system, I wouldn't recommend it - definitely too much of an RP straitjacket.

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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I prefer personality guidelines and GM rewards for keeping a player in character. That lends itself to characters that change over time, allows a modicum of GM control for out of character actions and lets them grow. Of course, the previous statement is opinion and not able to clinically proven.

Of the very few games that have personality mechanics in them, I have used them each exactly once, and never again.

-STS

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Another version of this was seen in Wyrm's Footprints #14 (and Thieves' World, if I recall correctly). In addition to the polar opposites at either end of the spectrum, there was a rating in the middle that represented mastery over the emotional conflict between the two, and the ability to consciously choose your action over your passionate instinct.

!i!

The new BRP contains a version of the system, based on the version in Chaosium's Thieves World set for NPC personality - page 290 in BRP 0. We were having a discussion in another thread about adapting / expanding the Allegiance mechanics as well IIRC.

Cheers,

Nick

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Opposed Personality Traits: A staple of Pendragon, a character has two opposed personality traits, e.g. Lusty and Chaste, or Courageous and Cowardly. If the rating for one trait goes up, its opposed trait will go down, and vice versa. The GM may call for a roll against one or another trait if the player wants his character to do something covered by those traits, e.g. the character must succeed in a Chaste roll to refuse the advances of a beautiful woman.

Any others?

Greg fubared the explanation for these; he admits it. The way its supposed to work is that the roll is only supposed to be made if you go AGAINST your nature. Thus, in the example above, you would only have to make the Chaste roll if you were, say, the castle womanizer, thus going against your "natural instincts". I don't have the book in front of me, but IIRC, your Passions also play into this as modifiers.

Its always been played that way in games that I've played as well. Its not quite the straightjacket that many think it is, and I look forward to subjecting people to it in BRP! >:->

SDLeary

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Of the very few games that have personality mechanics in them, I have used them each exactly once, and never again.

Which? And what did you find was wrong with it?

The new BRP contains a version of the system, based on the version in Chaosium's Thieves World set for NPC personality - page 290 in BRP 0.

Oh, yes - the BRP version doesn't have an in-the-middle "emotional mastery" range though.

Greg fubared the explanation for these; he admits it. The way its supposed to work is that the roll is only supposed to be made if you go AGAINST your nature. Thus, in the example above, you would only have to make the Chaste roll if you were, say, the castle womanizer, thus going against your "natural instincts".

I don't understand that system, it doesn't seem to work. What percentage is supposed to define someone's "nature"? Chaste/Lustful 49/51 wouldn't be a womanizer, so when would they ever make a roll and get a check?

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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I've toyed with the idea of using Pendragon style passions (ranked 1-20) to act as augments to skill rolls where appropriate or on their own to provide tension at appropriate moments

For example want to step away from that bunch of Lunars soliders who are itching for a fight, roll against your character's Hate Lunars 15 and prey you get over 15. If you fail your character can through himself into the fight getting a +15 bonous to attack (but not parry) because of his passion.

But at the end of the day I think these sort of things are best roleplayed out in BRP and I play plenty of HeroQuest, where this is a major part of the mechanics, to scratch this particular itch.

However I do have an optional system for personality mechanics that I use in SimpleQuest which I detail below. Note an Improvement Point in SQ is equivalent to an Improvement Roll in MRQ or skill tick in BRP. Note this system is highly derivative of Burning Wheel's Belief system, which inspired it.

Motives. (Optional)

Motives are what drive the characters actions. They are the character’s goals, both short and long term.

Long term goals are things that are life goals, and are only achievable over the period of a linked set of adventures, which are commonly known as a ‘campaign’.

Example long term motives.

  • Become King of the Amber Lands.
  • Defeat the evil Sorcerer Zanab Khan.
  • Become the richest man in Red Hat County.
  • Avenge my Father’s death

Short term motives are usually relevant to the adventure currently being played, and are determined near the beginning of the session by the players.

For example a set of short term goals coming out of a Royal Monster hunt in the bleak ice deserts of Zhaind

  • Kill the biggest monster on the hunt.
  • Secure the rights to trade the hides of the monsters.
  • Use the hunt to impress the King and improve their social standing at court.
  • Map the ice deserts of Zhaind to increase the body of knowledge of the Royal Library

.

At the end of character generation choose two long term Motives for your character and at the beginning of the adventure choose a suitable short term motive.

Every time a motive is brought into play in a concrete way, the character earns one improvement per session.

Short term motives are removed at the end of the session.

When a Long term motive is achieved finally it is removed from the player’s character sheet and the character earns five improvement points.

As well as giving the players inspiration on how to roleplay the character, motives also drive play as players strive to bring into play motives to earn improvement points and the Games Master makes note of motives and creates events which raise opportunity for the player to bring their motives into play.

Head Honcho of D101 Games
Publisher of Crypts and Things/Monkey/OpenQuest/River of Heaven
The Sorcerer Under the Mountain

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(BTW, many thanks, Shaira! Last session the party had a brush with Ulega-Bagu and it was a scream. Blackeye had them so scared of darkness that when the demon appeared they voluntarily ran for the safety of daylight, without any Fearshock! Even the Paladin fled (oops, what a give-away - I should say 'RuneLord', shouldn't I?), abandoning his sword. Perhaps he should have got an 'anti-tick' for Bravery... but I'm such a softie.)

Thank you! I'm glad she gave everyone a run for their money! :D

Keep watching this space - I'm hoping very soon to be able to introduce a lot more of Ulega-Bagu's friends! :happy:

Cheers,

Sarah

"The Worm Within" - the first novel for The Chronicles of Future Earth, coming 2013 from Chaosium, Inc.

Website: http://sarahnewtonwriter.com | Twitter: @SarahJNewton | Facebook: TheChroniclesOfFutureEarth

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They can be useful if not over-used.

As a player, I used them when I wasn't sure how my PC would act in a particular situation or when I felt that what I wanted to do was not what the PC would do, so I rolled the dice and took the result.

Other ways of using them are:

1. When the PC has a flaw or curse that affects how he acts. So, if someone has a curse that he must seduce blonde haired women, he must roll vs his Chaste/Lustful if he is under a geas of celibacy.

2. When a PC is on a HeroQuest or on a scenario where emotions are being controlled. If it takes a Brave person to enter a room, then it is reasonable to toll under Brave/Cowardly rather than assuming that everyone is automatically brave.

3. When a PC is affected by a magical effect that is not covered by the normal rules. So, a PC who picks up a Ring of Disloyalty must roll below his Loyal/Disloyal trait or betray his companions at a certain point.

But, I'd be very careful about how you use them. Don't roll Personality Traits all the time otherwise they get boring. Don't use them rigidly to change the behaviour of PCs otherwise players will feel that they have no control of the PC. Always treat them as guidelines rather than hard and fast rules.

When you generate them, ask the player how they see their PC and get them to write down the pairs. Then compare the values with how the PC acts in gameplay. So, if a PC has Chaste 50/Lustful 50 and is always sleeping with every peasant or serving girl he can find then the GM should change the values accordingly. However, someone with Chaste 30/Lustful 70 who gets a celibacy geas may well have to roll that pairing to see if he obeys his geas or slips.

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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I don't understand that system, it doesn't seem to work. What percentage is supposed to define someone's "nature"? Chaste/Lustful 49/51 wouldn't be a womanizer, so when would they ever make a roll and get a check?

Pretty straight forward... add the numbers on both sides together, and they equal 100. The higher the number on that side, the more likely you are to follow that course; that course is your nature (Chaste 25/75 Lustful: the character tends to go for it!). If the character makes a decision that goes against that "nature", the GM might call for a roll to see if your character can curb their natural tendencies. :rolleyes::D

If this is combined with Allegiances/Passions, then perhaps you get a bonus to your roll.

SDLeary

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They can be useful if not over-used.

But, I'd be very careful about how you use them. Don't roll Personality Traits all the time otherwise they get boring. Don't use them rigidly to change the behaviour of PCs otherwise players will feel that they have no control of the PC. Always treat them as guidelines rather than hard and fast rules.

When you generate them, ask the player how they see their PC and get them to write down the pairs. Then compare the values with how the PC acts in gameplay. So, if a PC has Chaste 50/Lustful 50 and is always sleeping with every peasant or serving girl he can find then the GM should change the values accordingly. However, someone with Chaste 30/Lustful 70 who gets a celibacy geas may well have to roll that pairing to see if he obeys his geas or slips.

Spot On! :thumb:

SDLeary

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Greg fubared the explanation for these; he admits it. The way its supposed to work is that the roll is only supposed to be made if you go AGAINST your nature.

Pretty straight forward... add the numbers on both sides together, and they equal 100. The higher the number on that side, the more likely you are to follow that course; that course is your nature (Chaste 25/75 Lustful: the character tends to go for it!). If the character makes a decision that goes against that "nature", the GM might call for a roll to see if your character can curb their natural tendencies. :rolleyes::D

Yes, yes, I know the basics of these systems. But what I don't understand is how Greg's stated version would function. The problem is that for traits under, say, 70% the character doesn't have a definite "nature" to go against, so there would be no occasion to roll. That's why I don't see how it would work.

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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They can be useful if not over-used.

As a player, I used them when I wasn't sure how my PC would act in a particular situation or when I felt that what I wanted to do was not what the PC would do, so I rolled the dice and took the result.

...

But, I'd be very careful about how you use them. Don't roll Personality Traits all the time otherwise they get boring. Don't use them rigidly to change the behaviour of PCs otherwise players will feel that they have no control of the PC. Always treat them as guidelines rather than hard and fast rules.

When you generate them, ask the player how they see their PC and get them to write down the pairs. Then compare the values with how the PC acts in gameplay. So, if a PC has Chaste 50/Lustful 50 and is always sleeping with every peasant or serving girl he can find then the GM should change the values accordingly. However, someone with Chaste 30/Lustful 70 who gets a celibacy geas may well have to roll that pairing to see if he obeys his geas or slips.

Yes, it's better if the personaility mechanics are a tool for the players - not the GM. The system I'm trying is just that: the GM is limited to perhaps awarding the occasional tick (or 'anti-tick') in exceptional cases. Normally, the players do a roll when they feel like it (and are acting according to the trait) to get a benefit. (Though players can roll whenever they like, they can only get a bonus once per session, which limits use of the traits).

So the GM never controls the character - that's the player's job. But the player gets benefits if the character acts acording to their chosen persona.

For clarity (i.e. your Lustful example is listed as "Chaste 30%...(etc)" which seems confusing), I translate the traits to just the above-50% part. That is, the example (Chaste 30/Lustful 70) would be Lustful 20% (though maybe it should be x2, making Lustful 40% on a 1-100 scale - I'm not sure which would be best).

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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Yes, yes, I know the basics of these systems. But what I don't understand is how Greg's stated version would function. The problem is that for traits under, say, 70% the character doesn't have a definite "nature" to go against, so there would be no occasion to roll. That's why I don't see how it would work.

Of course there would be occasion for rolls. Whenever the GM calls for it! :)

If the GM has a particular situation, then they know the intensity of the "urge" that they are laying out. They call for the rolls, its not an automatic mechanic, like a roll in combat.

As for the spread in the pair values (ie, not a wide spread in some cases), that simply shows that its able to map a wide range of personalities, those that might waffle more in certain situations presented.

SDLeary

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Aspects sounds like the preferrable way to do it. I think I must read the FATE rules... :rolleyes:

Note, though, that the Aspect rules I quoted were from Spirit of the Century. The FATE 2.0 PDF has a different take on Aspects.

If you don't want to plunk down cash for the book, there's an SRD with all the rules (but no examples).

Frank

"Welcome to the hottest and fastest-growing hobby of, er, 1977." -- The Laundry RPG
 
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Greg fubared the explanation for these; he admits it. The way its supposed to work is that the roll is only supposed to be made if you go AGAINST your nature.

Of course there would be occasion for rolls. Whenever the GM calls for it!

OK, so not 'only if you go against your nature', then. I knew that wouldn't work - thanks for clarifying.

That makes it a bit intrusive, though - relying on the GM setting up situations specifically to test certain traits. Hard to be even-handed amongst all the possible traits, too, so as not to test just a few favourites and neglect the rest. OK for Pendragon, perhaps, with its particular focus. But for more normal RPG play I think a 'player-driven' system is better, like the one I oulined above.

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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OK, so not 'only if you go against your nature', then. I knew that wouldn't work - thanks for clarifying.

That makes it a bit intrusive, though - relying on the GM setting up situations specifically to test certain traits. Hard to be even-handed amongst all the possible traits, too, so as not to test just a few favourites and neglect the rest. OK for Pendragon, perhaps, with its particular focus. But for more normal RPG play I think a 'player-driven' system is better, like the one I oulined above.

emphasis mine

You mean such as when you have to use your sword, or when you have to make a spot roll? The GM sets up ALL situations, either through planning or pulling it out of their ass on the spot. Why should using the personality, allegiances, or any other social traits be different? :cool:

But to clarify my previous post. If you are going against your nature, you will probably be required to make a roll, modified by passions/allegiances. If you are the majority who have opposed values that are more middling, you may or may not, GMs call.

SDLeary

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You mean such as when you have to use your sword, or when you have to make a spot roll? The GM sets up ALL situations...

Of course. But having to set up situations for traits makes more work for the GM - which they probably don't need! Also, that way around, traits would prevent players doing what they want with their character (when they fail the roll, anyway). That makes character personality into a stick to beat the players with - controlling, not enabling. A classic GM failing.

Character personality should be a good thing, not an obstacle to avoid.

IMO, it's better to use a system like that I described upthread, in which the players are looking for opportunities to use their 'trait-skills' - and benefit from them.

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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