RQ Design Notes #6

[MOB]

Here Jeff answers a key question that we get quite often -"are you using the [pick a rule] from RQ [pick an edition]?"

http://www.chaosium.com/blog/designing-the-new-runequest-part-6

[1970]

This actually helps answers a question I asked in another thread.  Awesome!

[jongjom]

All eminently sensible and agreeable changes. However, I would add sorcery to the RQ2 broken list....because of its absence! ;-)

Very much looking forward to giving this a go later in 2016 (fingers crossed).

[pachristian]

Cut-off points are on the "broken" list. Classic RQ characters tended to have all 8's, 13's, and 17's (and 21's) as characteristics. Stagger the cut-off points to avoid this, so you do not get a bonus for everything from a specific value.

[MOB]

5 hours ago, pachristian said:

Cut-off points are on the "broken" list. Classic RQ characters tended to have all 8's, 13's, and 17's (and 21's) as characteristics. Stagger the cut-off points to avoid this, so you do not get a bonus for everything from a specific value.

Yes, that is one of the areas we're addressing: characteristic bonuses are calculated in a similar way to RQ3.

Jongjom: sorcery is in the new rules. We don't count it as something broken from RQ2 because, as you say, it wasn't featured there, but it certainly was broken in RQ3 or to use Sandy Petersen's quaint phrase, it "sucked toads".

[Mugen]

On 30/04/2016 at 10:27 PM, MOB said:

Yes, that is one of the areas we're addressing: characteristic bonuses are calculated in a similar way to RQ3.

Do you mean the new RuneQuest is going to have skill base values and skill bonus like in RQ3 ?

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, Mugen said:

Do you mean the new RuneQuest is going to have skill base values and skill bonus like in RQ3 ?

Both RQ2 and RQ2 have skill base values and characteristic modifiers for skills classes. The new RQ uses something more like RQ3 than RQ2 (since RQ2 only did characteristic modifiers in 5% increments).

[Rurik]

So will weapons go back to base chances based on the weapon? Where a greatsword is much harder to learn than a spear or club?

 

[Jeff]

It has been that way in all the Chaosium editions. No reason to change that.

[Mugen]

4 hours ago, Jeff said:

It has been that way in all the Chaosium editions. No reason to change that.

Maybe it's me, but skill modificators are one of the things from RQ3 I don't want to use ever again, and I vastly prefer RQ6's base skills.

[SDLeary]

2 hours ago, Mugen said:

Maybe it's me, but skill modificators are one of the things from RQ3 I don't want to use ever again, and I vastly prefer RQ6's base skills.

Why really? RQ6 does tend to start skills a bit higher (a bit too high IMHO), but ultimately both model the effect of characteristics on skills. With higher base skills, or higher modifiers for the various characteristics things could be similar, % wise.

SDLeary

[styopa]

I prefer the mods because RQ6's mechanics only meant 'natural ability' impacted you precisely once: in the determination of the starting level of skill.

IIRC (and I could be wrong, I only dabbled in RQ6 before going back to RQ3) later stat changes didn't then change a skill already advanced through experience?

In RQ3 (and I realize this is a houserule, and probably gets down into weeds that most people wouldn't bother with) I actually had my players keep skill and mod separate, and NOT add-in the stat modifier when they wrote it down on their sheet.  So what was written in on the skill line next to the skill was ONLY their skill (ie base plus whatever they'd learned from experience/training).

When I asked them "what's your chance with the skill" they'd be expected to add that number to their mod and tell me the result.  When they rolled for skill checks however, they'd roll vs their actual skill only (not including mod) MINUS their mod.  

It always bothered me that it was mathematically harder for people with high natural talent (ie they started with a higher net skill because of high stats) to get better at something.  And, this meant that everyone advanced in skills a little bit faster. (MGF)

Peripherally, my last campaign started with elementary school kids and we played all the way until they've left for college. Making perform/practice basic math skills without realizing it wasn't a bad thing either.  

[Atgxtg]

In RQ3 the category modifier was added to improvement rolls. So someone with a high natural ability also tended to improve faster.

 

I hope they don't completely throw out RQ3. While some of the changes introduced to make RQ a "generic" RPG hurt the game, RQ3 also fixed a lot of "bugs" that existed in RQ2. Things like "break points" defense, the old hit point formula, and 3D6 SIZ and INT all caused their share of problems. 

[MOB]

6 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

I hope they don't completely throw out RQ3. While some of the changes introduced to make RQ a "generic" RPG hurt the game, RQ3 also fixed a lot of "bugs" that existed in RQ2. Things like "break points" defense, the old hit point formula, and 3D6 SIZ and INT all caused their share of problems. 

The RQ3 approach is taken in all these cases!  for SIZ and INT (2d6+6 added). Not using RQ2's "Defense" - it's Dodge.

Edited May 4, 2016 by MOB

[MOB]

4 hours ago, MOB said:

The RQ3 approach is taken in all these cases!  for SIZ and INT (2d6+6 added). Not using RQ2's "Defense" - it's Dodge.

Hit Points though, are more like the way done in RQ2

Edited May 4, 2016 by MOB

[Mugen]

20 hours ago, SDLeary said:

Why really? RQ6 does tend to start skills a bit higher (a bit too high IMHO), but ultimately both model the effect of characteristics on skills. With higher base skills, or higher modifiers for the various characteristics things could be similar, % wise.

SDLeary

The end result maybe similar, but adding 2 stats together is much quicker than computing a RQ3-style skill modifier.

In my own homebrew version of BRP, each skill category is associated to a base value (equal to the sum of 2 stats), and I define an optimal value for each skill in this category, which depends on this base value.

The major difference between both systems is that some skills are inherently more difficult than others in RQ2/RQ3. Climb is an easy skill, Dodge is more difficult.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Mugen

[styopa]

What makes me so excited about this Runequest is the timing.

There is genuinely a FRPG tabletop Renaissance going on: I'll credit our friends at Wizards for much of that, starting with a very creditable 3e, 3.5e (in particular releasing that as d20 SRD) and then 5e which is really quite a good system.  That, coupled with the internet and the maturation of public-use tools like Roll20 has given us actual pop-culture things like Critical Role (http://geekandsundry.com/shows/critical-role/).  For the tabletop RPG world generally, it's a good time.

However...I suspect now that D&D 5e has been around the block a little, some of the polish might be starting to wear off.

I believe (hope?) that there's a market of people like most of us were at one time: sick of a system based on rationalizations and odd constructs/constraints like levels, sick of game worlds that are little more than a pastiche of (a ren-fest view of) Medieval Western Europe with a thick goopy coat of "Magick" that nevertheless hasn't *really* impacted anything in terms of societies or norms.  Societies where the gods are REAL, demonstrable, and immanent yet religion is just something for clerics and paladins to care about (and barely then).  I expect that as a result we could soon see a crop of relatively fresh players looking for something more substantial, more realized.  

Gosh I hope this comes out soon.

[Atgxtg]

16 hours ago, MOB said:

Hit Points though, are more like the way done in RQ2

Well three out of four ain't bad. Pity about the old Hit Point formula. It will definitely hurt the game.

[kaydet]

Will the other runes of Glorantha play a part in the new edition? Zzabur's Sigil and the personality matrix account for the elemental runes and the council of pairs, but what of all the others -- do they have a role or are they being subsumed into their god's primary power rune?

[jajagappa]

If you look at the example character sheet in the 1st design notes, RQ Design notes pt 1, you'll find a couple of the Form runes.  I'd expect the Form runes to continue to play a part as well.

 

[kaydet]

I did see those when I read the article, but that still leaves the question of how, mechanically, other runes will come into play -- if at all.

[Joerg]

I expect the form and condition runes to feature significantly in sorcery and ritual magic, if nothing else as a limiter to targeting magic.