The Praxian Tradition

[kalidor]

58 minutes ago, David Scott said:

She's the well spirit of Ronance well, see the Guide p456.

Are well spirits water spirits? or are they some class of nature spirits? just to clarify what powers they can wield. Thanks for your effort to answer our questions David.

[David Scott]

5 minutes ago, kalidor said:

Are well spirits water spirits? or are they some class of nature spirits? just to clarify what powers they can wield. Thanks for your effort to answer our questions David.

In the case of Ronance's wife she's a water spirit. As to powers, it depends on what game you are playing and what the story is. The guide gives no info on the oasis people at this oasis, so it's up to you to decide what her abilities are. Here's part of the current edit: 

Quote

Each of the oases of the Wastelands has its own spirit. All provide a small range of charms based around fresh water. The taboo of these charms is Never Harm an Oasis Person. These spirits can only be contacted at their respective oasis.

For RQ, I'd likely base her on Kinope from the River of Cradles campaign - i'd half the healing available and change her likes.

In HQG, water spirits are hostile to Waha society members unless they have the Water rune.

[Noita]

Yes, helps to be a Llama rider when visiting the oasis. I'd say her powers deal with growing things, keeping water fresh for long journeys and soothing weary travellers.

[kalidor]

On 2/6/2016 at 0:47 PM, David Scott said:

Jalakeel has the Dying phase & Spirit Rune

The School of Red Masks has the Moon Rune.

Given that the Moon Rune has been in the Wastelands since before the Dawn, I think the Loonies have direct access to it, not the phases. This is what makes them special. When Hidden Ancestor society's Twinstars were revealed to be daughters of the Red Moon this caused the new society of the Twisters to be identified with a phase (Full Half) instead of the Moon Rune. At Moonbroth the Loonies have access to the Moon Rune and need illumination to access its full powers, but it's a different set of powers to that of the Goddess.

"Given that the Moon Rune has been in the Wastelands since before the Dawn", how? is there some kind of spirit or god? I find this very interesting. ¿Is posible to discover and use the moon rune outside the influence (freedom) of the Red Moon? It does not matter i think if you are an exile orlanthi, probably they will kill you ;P but for a nomad or other people it could be usefull. I think that the Twinstars were  transformed in lunar spirits through lunar heroquesting, maybe i am wrong in this point. Thanks

Edited February 1, 2017 by kalidor

[Noita]

Hidden ancestor. The Sables worship them.

Aren't they long lost children of the Red Moon?

Edited February 1, 2017 by Iskallor

[David Scott]

34 minutes ago, kalidor said:

"Given that the Moon Rune has been in the Wastelands since before the Dawn", how? is there some kind of spirit or god? I find this very interesting. ¿Is posible to discover and use the moon rune outside the influence (freedom) of the Red Moon? It does not matter i think if you are an exile orlanthi, probably they will kill you ;P but for a nomad or other people it could be usefull. I think that the Twinstars were  transformed in lunar spirits through lunar heroquesting, maybe i am wrong in this point. Thanks

Firstly, the Moon rune and the red goddesses are not the same thing. We know the moon has had many different forms in the godtime as the lunar empire have synergised that into their mythology. There are other moon cults all over the world. As @Iskallor said, the Hidden Ancestor is the original moon rune cult in Prax, The twinstars is the post lunar transformed version you noted. They are basically the same, except the twinstars has a shaman path and access to Lunar magics. The twinstars are the founders of the sables. Both societies exist side by side in the Wastes until the fall of Pavis. There are orlanth and vinga followers amongst the sable nomads with the moon rune! Although uncommon (only 160 of them), it's not considered abnormal.

[Noita]

Moon, movement and death the runes of my next Vingan pc.

Moonshine Mu, baddass Vingan Sable rider.

[g33k]

7 hours ago, David Scott said:

Firstly, the Moon rune and the red goddesses are not the same thing. We know the moon has had many different forms in the godtime as the lunar empire have synergised that into their mythology. There are other moon cults all over the world. As @Iskallor said, the Hidden Ancestor is the original moon rune cult in Prax, The twinstars is the post lunar transformed version you noted. They are basically the same, except the twinstars has a shaman path and access to Lunar magics. The twinstars are the founders of the sables. Both societies exist side by side in the Wastes until the fall of Pavis. There are orlanth and vinga followers amongst the sable nomads with the moon rune! Although uncommon (only 160 of them), it's not considered abnormal.

My understanding -- based heavily on tangential references and vast swaths of inference, as I haven't delved deeply into the Lunar lore of Glorantha -- is that while the "Moon Rune" (and various Lunar deities (all female, I presume)) pre-existed Sedenya, and now co-exist with her, it's a mistake to conflate them all.\

But equally, that (just as the Lunar Empire is militantly expandcing) Sedenya is militantly growing her Gods-Plane presence, and many/most (all?) Lunar divinities have lost some degree of scope / domain / potency to Sedenya (much as Zorak Zoran wields Yelmalio's Fire Rune abilities).

In my Glorantha, I am strongly considering the possibility that the Sedenya/Orlanth conflict is, in the larger scope, at least partially a distraction from the Hon-eel (who although "dead" is not mythically "gone" or in ANY way "inactive") vs Uleria rivalry...

[Pentallion]

Are there Tricksters to be found in the Praxian tradition?  One of my players argues that it was Trickster who helped the Morokanth cheat.

[Noita]

4 hours ago, Pentallion said:

Are there Tricksters to be found in the Praxian tradition?  One of my players argues that it was Trickster who helped the Morokanth cheat.

Raven and Jackrabbit to name two trouble makers. No true Trickster god though. She sounds like a Trickster, for the Morokanths  played fair in their mind and won. Maybe.

[Pentallion]

It seems like Raven is the sly aspect of Trickster and Hyena is the lewd aspect.  So if she joines both spirit societies, she has the disorder and illusion runes.  Neither is a god, however, so I assume she would still need to pick a god to favor.  Or perhaps membership in two spirit societies is enough.  In all my years playing RQ, no one has really gotten into playing a Praxian before.  So I've kinda glossed over that part of the game until now.

[Noita]

Darkness, illusion and spirit would cover it  or darkness, beast and spirit.

Not sure that Hyena is a trickster.

[Darius West]

54 minutes ago, Iskallor said:

Not sure that Hyena is a trickster.

Perhaps Hyena is Trickster's laugh track/audience?  

The fact is that Hyena is an increasingly important Praxian entity with ties to Genert and the death of the Garden, and Garzeen Issaries.  No doubt Hyena defeated Basmol at some point (who didn't) and potentially other things too.  Perhaps there needs to be an amalgamation of the body of lore into something approaching a spirit cult?

On a related note, it might surprise people to discover that giant hyenas were humanity's natural predator (early cave finds in southern Africa show  Australopithecine/Homo Habilus bone slivers in giant hyena lairs) which may well be one of the reasons human beings find hyenas unattractive. It is also possible that human laughter may have begun as a warning noise signalling hyenas according to some speculation among evolutionary biologists. 

In African tribal traditions hyenas are almost always depicted in an adversarial light, being seen as cannibal shapechangers in some stories, describing them as greedy, boastful, bullying and incompetent in others.  For a while in the early period of exploration, biologists thought that hyenas were hermaphroditic, which is definitely false.  What is a surprise is that hyenas are not related to dogs but are actually evolved from a large civet cat.  This might fit with the Orlanth foe, the "Dog Like a Cat", mentioned when Orlanth defeated the Bad Dogs.

[David Scott]

5 hours ago, Darius West said:

The fact is that Hyena is an increasingly important Praxian entity with ties to Genert and the death of the Garden, and Garzeen Issaries.  

The Praxians have no real interest in Genert. He is gone and with his departure came Waha to teach how to live in Genert's destroyed land. That's not to say that the Praxians are not respectful of what came before and their ancestors. But Genert gives them nothing, Waha gives them a way of life. For Genert to return Waha has to effectively go. However Genert was dead at the compromise and Waha was alive and so this is fixed in time. Praxians aren't going to agree to Resurrect Genert at the expense of their way of life. That's a big risk.

The resurrection of Genert is a plot that the Garzeen are tied to and a big PC plot hook. Greg has written a little on how this would happen and I've mentioned it here on the Forum.

Hyena is one of the parts that will need to be used. Hyena was created by Genert to devour him so that he wasn't lost completely to Chaos and that mostly succeeded. So Praxians have to be respectful of Hyena, but Hyena is not Genert. The fact that Genert created Hyena likely means he was part of Genert - that's the way gods make things. So what is Hyena?

Quote

When the gods of Chaos killed Genert, a pack of spirits came as hyenas to consume his body. Even today, the Praxians say that all hyenas are parts of Genert’s body.

Looking at the counter in Nomad God's, Hyena has a man's body and a Hyena head. Praxian Hyenas are clearly not "real" Hyenas. They are some kind of disguised spirit. But for all intents and purposes are real Hyenas - its a perfect disguise other than their odd behaviour.

Praxians do kill Hyenas as they prey on the herds, they don't have to return the hides like the Garzeen. There is no spirit cult as he doesn't offer any magic.

[David Scott]

On 11/02/2017 at 0:47 AM, Pentallion said:

Are there Tricksters to be found in the Praxian tradition

No. Even amongst those Praxians who follow the Lightbringers, there is no room for Eurmal. In the Wastes there is no place for a trickster. That's not to say that others don't have small trickster aspects. Raven clearly has a Theft aspect, Hyena clearly has a conceal aspect. I'm sure there are others, but they are spread about. Orlanth also has a theft aspect.

[Revilo Divad Of Dyoll]

On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 6:42 AM, David Scott said:

No. Even amongst those Praxians who follow the Lightbringers, there is no room for Eurmal. In the Wastes there is no place for a trickster. That's not to say that others don't have small trickster aspects. Raven clearly has a Theft aspect, Hyena clearly has a conceal aspect. I'm sure there are others, but they are spread about. Orlanth also has a theft aspect.

Do any Praxians ever come in contact with the boggles on top of the Plateau of Statues?

[David Scott]

13 minutes ago, Revilo Divad Of Dyoll said:

Do any Praxians ever come in contact with the boggles on top of the Plateau of Statues?

Yes of course - there's treasure up there. We know that Jaldon went up there when he did the Task of Waha and the Statues, so there's a precedent. Only the foolish would there though, the Praxians call it a Giant Place and know about Blind, Brow and the Maker of Earthquakes that live up there. Have a look at the description in the Guide and the picture on page 457 - those Bison Riders are clearly up there for a reason. 

[kalidor]

32 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Yes of course - there's treasure up there. We know that Jaldon went up there when he did the Task of Waha and the Statues, so there's a precedent. Only the foolish would there though, the Praxians call it a Giant Place and know about Blind, Brow and the Maker of Earthquakes that live up there. Have a look at the description in the Guide and the picture on page 457 - those Bison Riders are clearly up there for a reason. 

Waha and the Statues. What is the story? if you can spoil it

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, kalidor said:

Waha and the Statues. What is the story? if you can spoil it

That's the secret of Waha's Tasks, there are loads that were/are one offs - not been able to be repeated. Jaldon knew the secret of this task and so garnered the help of some statues from there to help him take down the walls of Pavis. We don't know all the details - it's up to your players to do it and find out.

[Noita]

But why and when would Waha have dealt with statues previously? Not the Faceless one surely? Jolanti?

[Pentallion]

On 2/13/2017 at 3:39 AM, David Scott said:

Praxians do kill Hyenas as they prey on the herds, they don't have to return the hides like the Garzeen. There is no spirit cult as he doesn't offer any magic.

Hyena is listed as a spirit cult of the Morokanth and some other tribes.  They give the divine spell Hyena's Laugh (Group Laughter).  Hyena's taught Morokanth the way of survivial in the Darkness and brought the Dark Eater to them.  So it would seem quite likely that the Morokanth and possibly others have a hyena spirit cult.  Though that Rune Magic spell is kinda weaksauce.

[Darius West]

On 2/13/2017 at 10:39 PM, David Scott said:

The Praxians have no real interest in Genert. He is gone and with his departure came Waha to teach how to live in Genert's destroyed land. That's not to say that the Praxians are not respectful of what came before and their ancestors. But Genert gives them nothing, Waha gives them a way of life. For Genert to return Waha has to effectively go. However Genert was dead at the compromise and Waha was alive and so this is fixed in time. Praxians aren't going to agree to Resurrect Genert at the expense of their way of life. That's a big risk.

I think the Praxians actually fear the rebirth of Genert at some level, and I think there was an article in ToRM that suggested that Praxians face annihilation if Genert comes back according to their prophecies.  In fact there is no reason for Waha to die upon Genert's demise, he will merely become a deity with a set of skills that are less relevant.  On the other hand, the peace and prosperity that a resurrected Genert offers must seem attractive to many people.  Aren't the Eiritha Priestesses, Pavis, and Issaries all engaged in various resurrection projects?

 

On 2/13/2017 at 10:39 PM, David Scott said:

Looking at the counter in Nomad God's, Hyena has a man's body and a Hyena head. Praxian Hyenas are clearly not "real" Hyenas. They are some kind of disguised spirit. But for all intents and purposes are real Hyenas - its a perfect disguise other than their odd behaviour.

The anthropomorphizing of a deity is normally a means to humanize the entity so that it can interact with humans and human-like things, and a way of imputing sentience and language.  It doesn't detract from the essentially alien and animal nature of the entity.  No doubt in mediumistic rituals a shaman will don the head of a hyena to embody the spirit so it may communicate with the worshipers.  It is all pretty normal animism.

On 2/13/2017 at 10:39 PM, David Scott said:

Praxians do kill Hyenas as they prey on the herds, they don't have to return the hides like the Garzeen. There is no spirit cult as he doesn't offer any magic.

Of course Praxians kill a predator that is after their herds, but they might also know ways of tricking or placating them with out risking the herd.  As for there being no spirit cult...

10 hours ago, Pentallion said:

Hyena is listed as a spirit cult of the Morokanth and some other tribes.  They give the divine spell Hyena's Laugh (Group Laughter).  Hyena taught Morokanth the way of survival in the Darkness and brought the Dark Eater to them.  So it would seem quite likely that the Morokanth and possibly others have a hyena spirit cult.  Though that Rune Magic spell is kinda weaksauce.

So the suggestion is that Morokanth know some secrets of Hyena.  It also underpins how unlikely it is that Morokanth are vegetarians if they are learning survival skills from Hyena, and the inference of the Dark Eater is that Hyena is associated with some powerful darkness war magic too.  I would suggest that there are valuable shamanic secrets to be unlocked through Hyena, and I am sure that Hyena has more to teach.  Also, hyena hsunchen would have a terrifying bite, if they needle-like dentition of hyenas are anything to go by; at least 1d10, or 1d8+hideous ripping.

[Noita]

10 hours ago, Pentallion said:

Hyena is listed as a spirit cult of the Morokanth and some other tribes.  They give the divine spell Hyena's Laugh (Group Laughter).  Hyena's taught Morokanth the way of survivial in the Darkness and brought the Dark Eater to them.  So it would seem quite likely that the Morokanth and possibly others have a hyena spirit cult.  Though that Rune Magic spell is kinda weaksauce.

Not in anything canon though. 

In my game Hyena is a contactable spirit and some see him as a naughty boy.

[D]

32 minutes ago, Iskallor said:

Not in anything canon though. 

In my game Hyena is a contactable spirit and some see him as a naughty boy.

But not the Messiah

[Pentallion]

3 hours ago, Iskallor said:

Not in anything canon though. 

In my game Hyena is a contactable spirit and some see him as a naughty boy.

Just written by Sandy Peterson and Greg Stafford.  That's all.