Trade and Markets in Glorantha

[Darius West]

On 11/6/2016 at 9:28 PM, Iskallor said:

Scaffold if Bronze will still be around to use as would timber made ones. The wood won't be rotting thanks to the climate and there's heaps of magic around to make sure it stays good...RQ repair spells, sorcery and in Heroquest you just make something up: a charm that suits, or the use of a rune etc etc. Using your Stasis rune in HQ is far easier than your one use rune spell....

People all to often overlook the magic that is everywhere and concentrate far to much on our world for why things do or don't work. It might sound hand wavy but hey so what it is Glorantha.

Opilli worshippers/human masons would have the building malarky down pat by now. Plus there's plenty of ancestors and other helpful spirits to help.

Importing bamboo and growing it locally would solve many problems. Something your Lokarnos merchants can organize with their Pelorian settlers.

Saplings that provide the 3 to 6m poles needed for spears, lances and pikes would grow in abundance along the river. The Sun Domers would coppice these and I'm sure settlers would get in on the market.

Perhaps nomads take them as raid tribute from river for or have oasis folk coppicing them.

Don't forget Arrow bushes.

Yeah, the whole HQ magic system is too easy and lacks the grittiness I want in a game.  I cut my teeth on RQ2 and grew up on RQ3, and I found HQ Glorantha a substantial disappointment, and I was not alone. Season to taste of course, you obviously like your Glorantha more the HQ way. YGWV.

You say that people often overlook that magic is everywhere in Glorantha.  But look again.  Ordinary people really don't have much access to that magic.  Most people will probably be a member of one pretty mundane cult, because it is all they can afford, and they aren't heroes of legend, they are everyday heroes struggling to survive a difficult bronze age existence.  Are there heroquests for growing cabbages and stickpicking?  Indubitably, but that is all done at Sacred Time.  For the rest of the year for most Gloranthans life can be pretty mundane (assuming it isn't under threat).  For me the appeal of Glorantha was not that it was a high magic environment, but in the realization of pantheonic and tribal mythic visions and relationships as the magic, while essentially keeping the magic sort of low key and the environment low fantasy.  The fact is, (to use King of Sartar the computer game as an example), you can have no sacred time magic for herds, and fail your Uralda heroquest badly, but still make your herds grow through good management, raiding and trade.  So did your heroquest really fail?  Did your rituals really fail?  Or maybe it is possible to succeed despite all the magic (there's an irony)?  The mundane world matters.  Grounding Glorantha in real world examples makes it better imo, because it makes the world more textured and the magic more "magical" when it is there. Of course my argument on this point is purely aesthetic.

Opili masons etc.  Yes they probably do have the building malarky down pat by now, in fact they would have had it down pat before Pavis fell, but sourcing timber is a part of that process.  Did you ever wonder why the Big Rubble hasn't been rebuilt? I can guarantee it isn't just because of all the trolls.  Yes, shortage of building materials.  Too expensive.

As to importing bamboo, probably not for Pavis in 1620, because bamboo makes a natural mold for terracotta tiles, hence the distinctive shape of the tiles of traditional roofs in China and Japan etc.  Pavic architecture is more middle eastern, and no hemispherical tiles are in evidence.  But yes, I am sure that it is possible to introduce fast growing bamboo varieties to the Zola Fel valley and then watch in horror as it takes off after the local plant species like a broo in a barnyard.  And you thought the God Learners were bad with their goddess switch

Timber is seldom a viable trade commodity, because it is normally heavy and low value.  Not in Pavis however, nor in Ancient Egypt.  Egypt benefited from having overseas timber sources, and ports to draw upon.  Using ships to transport heavy cargoes is not so bad.  Corflu isn't really up to it yet though, and what was New Pavis doing before Corflu?

  I also recognize that the Oasis people grow trees, but there are very few Oasis timbers that are any good for weapons IRL.  In fact fig and date and other oasis woods are crappy for building too; fine for fruit though.  Ancient Egypt had a similar economy to the Zola Fel river, and timber was a huge import for them. 

I take what people are saying about supplies of cypress from the lower Zola Fel and the Bog seriously.  I am sure that there are solutions for shipping wood to New Pavis, but the city's requirements, not to mention all the outlying settlements, would rapidly denude the wild cypress trees along the Zola Fel.

If there is a Red Elf caravan coming down from the Rockwoods with timber, fine, but how are they transporting it?  Elves aren't known for having great transportation methods, or for trading in timber for that matter.  Isn't selling timber sort of like desecrating the bones of their ancestors? I think human and even mostali and troll timber "raids" would be more likely, especially after Barran the Monster Slayer gets his giant boot timber.  Of course transporting the material will be difficult... and thus we are back to wagons...

Simply put, you can put timber on a mule or on some other beast of burden, but you are grossly limited in how much and what lengths of material they can carry before being overburdened, then you have to feed and water the poor beasts every day, not to mention loading and unloading them again as well, which means paying mule skinners who can properly balance loads and unload without accidentally crippling the animals.  It is a huge problem over long distances.  Floating logs down a stream is a good answer, if you happen to have a stream handy.  Floating logs up a stream is less handy but possible with the right sort of boat and know-how if there aren't too many rapids.   But wagons are so much better at this task it is breathtaking.

On 11/7/2016 at 1:03 AM, M Helsdon said:

The Pavis Road is an unpaved Lunar military road, so during the Occupation it would be a source of wood - there are going to be few trade items from Pavis and surrounds worth the effort of taking back west (save for magical or historical artifacts from the Rubble), so having carried supplies to the garrisons, wagons might be broken up at Pavis and sold for a tidy profit...

'The caravan master says three wagons have been damaged en route, sir. It's the state of the road. He asks permission to sell them off.'

'Does he? We're losing too many. The Army can't afford this. Tell him to get them repaired.'

'Ah, sir. I forgot. Here's your cut from the last sale.'

'Thank you. Now are you sure it was only three wagons that should be listed as irreparable?'

I loved this.  Thanks M Helsdon.  This is the New Pavis I remember.  "Cast a detect magic on the damn things before you disassemble them, you don't want to strip down the wrong one and have some "Block Anus" merchant bitching to the Governor about how you buggered his matrices.  Next thing you know Sor Eel will figure out our angle, he will come swooping in for his cut and the game is up for us little players."  To which his buddy laughs "Haw!  Sor-Eel swooping!  I can't think of a less majestic figure of a man."   The point is that the Lunar Military has some of the deepest pockets in Glorantha in 1620 and big plans to make Corflu into a major trading port, and potentially a large shipyard to boot.  Some might say that was one of their major reasons for invading Prax; they wanted a port on the Homeward Ocean.  That means the wagons will keep the timber rolling and if there is a bit of corruption along the way, well, just so long as the job gets done...  The fact that it is an inevitable economic bubble, because Corflu is all but uninhabitable due to the disease and giant mosquitoes, it needs constant dredging, and has little access to ship building supplies.  It is merely an upcoming central planning comedy that will embarrass the Empire.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Darius West

[Yelm's Light]

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

Except that Praxians aren't in any danger of being pushed out of Prax.

Nor do the Praxians know that.  And they already have the example of Lunar incursion into Pent, driving Pentan tribes into their lands as well.

[Yelm's Light]

4 hours ago, Tindalos said:

I imagine most of the wood in Prax comes from the river of cradles. The bogs there are filled with cypresses and canes which will be popular among many people.

During Fire season, when the fields don't need as much attention and the bogs are drier, I imagine it'll be common to see parties going through the edges, harvesting canes and trees for wood to trade.

Likewise, I imagine the animal nomads will pick up what canes they find on the edges for use as spear shafts.

As for wood, at that level of technology, trees take years to grow large enough for planking and beams, without any kind of reforestation program.  They would've been exhausted years ago unless they were unsuitable for those applications.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

Timber is seldom a viable trade commodity, because it is normally heavy and low value.  Not in Pavis however, nor in Ancient Egypt.  Egypt benefited from having overseas timber sources, and ports to draw upon.  Using ships to transport heavy cargoes is not so bad. 

Which is why I can't see wagons hauling lots of timber across Prax, even along the Pavis Road.

In my mind, there's one viable source, the Rockwood Mountains particularly the Redwood Forest, and one viable transport mechanism, logs sent down the Zola Fel (does not even require boats).

[M Helsdon]

6 hours ago, Darius West said:

There is no Lunar settler push into the Oases or the chaparral, nor is there a poisoning of wells or a building of fences, and there is no great slaughter of the bison like there was in North America that made the Native American Plains tribes' way of life untenable. 

Moonbroth was garrisoned by the Empire, and was the religious center of Lunar Prax.

Edited November 6, 2016 by M Helsdon

[Tindalos]

1 hour ago, Yelm's Light said:

As for wood, at that level of technology, trees take years to grow large enough for planking and beams, without any kind of reforestation program.  They would've been exhausted years ago unless they were unsuitable for those applications.

It's more that the bogs are unsuitable for widespread logging operations, being flooded completely 3 seasons out of five, full of bugs, and treacherous.

Doesn't mean you can't get wood from there though, and as hardwoods, and with skullbushes plentiful in the bogs, it'd be worth the insect bites to get what trees you can.

Of course, in Pavis itself, I'd be willing to bet the cult of Florian the Gardener helps out a lot, probably teaching Food Song from Pavis' connection to the elves, enabling for harvesting wood without necessarily angering the elves of the garden.

[Mark Mohrfield]

4 hours ago, jajagappa said:

 

In my mind, there's one viable source, the Rockwood Mountains particularly the Redwood Forest, and one viable transport mechanism, logs sent down the Zola Fel (does not even require boats).

But what about Leaping Place Falls? I'm beginning to think that any viable explanation for getting timber to Pavis requires a magical explanation at some point.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Mark Mohrfield said:

But what about Leaping Place Falls?

Don't stand below it when the timber comes down.

Another reason why boats aren't viable, but logs going down the falls should work (maybe they use undines to slow the traverse down?). 

[Noita]

The River Horses provide magic to move quickly along the river from the headwaters if i remember rightly. Perhaps they can help.

[Darius West]

11 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Which is why I can't see wagons hauling lots of timber across Prax, even along the Pavis Road.

In my mind, there's one viable source, the Rockwood Mountains particularly the Redwood Forest, and one viable transport mechanism, logs sent down the Zola Fel (does not even require boats).

A fine point, and the fact is that it is plausible.  The upper reaches of the Zola Fel are definitely forested, and we know Barran the Monster Killer goes there for giant boot timber.  So what are the drawbacks?  Well firstly you are going into an Elf forest that exists inside Troll lands.  Now the elves are apparently defending the stump of their Shanasse tree and worship the Torch that makes the Shadows Dance.  The light in the hills?  A trophy torch left by the trolls to attract chaos?   It all sounds pretty Yelmalion.  It also says that the Aldryami are green elves and not numerous.  So the defenders of the Redwoods are beleaguered Yelmalion green elves.  Do they want you stealing their trees?  I doubt it, regardless.  But lets say that there is some second age compact between Pavis Elf-Blood and the Redwood Elves regarding timber.  I daresay that the timber will be from trees that die or are damaged by trolls, which will limit the harvest.

6 hours ago, Mark Mohrfield said:

But what about Leaping Place Falls? I'm beginning to think that any viable explanation for getting timber to Pavis requires a magical explanation at some point.

To which we have the reply

5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Don't stand below it when the timber comes down.

Another reason why boats aren't viable, but logs going down the falls should work (maybe they use undines to slow the traverse down?). 

Well... a 500 foot drop isn't going to do your logs much good, especially as waterfalls tend to scour the landscape beneath them to bare rock. Now when a log hits rocks from such a height the impact generally shatters your log "to shivers". As for the playful undines that slow the traverse of said logs, they had better be drawn from the souls of dead lovers who wanted to commit suicide, because redwood logs weigh many tons and are coming down that waterfall at terminal velocity with more force than a great troll's maul.  Undines will be splashed into a million puddles.  The other thing is, and I cannot emphasize this enough, the Leaping Place falls are a site of pilgrimage for the Zola Fel Cult.  Imagine their joy when, as they bathe in the sacred rushing water of their God's holiest place, that their deity (or some *%#$!) delivers them the unexpected blessing of tons of lethal plummeting log.  Roll dodge then the furious survivors can seek violent retribution for this blasphemous atrocity, possibly to be joined by a murderous band of Green Elves, eyes glazed, all hopped up on arrow trance out to avenge the plunder of their stand of ancestors. You may have the agreement of the Yelmalion elves, but they forgot to clear it with the Aldrayan fundamentalists. Needless to say that the trolls in the background just bide their time and "say grace" just as the fight ends, giving thanks to the Spider of Fate for the bounty that has been delivered to them this fine evening.

So, anyone bringing timber down from the Redwoods will need to portage the logs around the Leaping Place Falls.  Now are the Zola Fel Cult going to think that building a crane operation to lower the logs by rope is acceptable?  No, it's an eyesore, plus 500+ foot is a damn long hawser, and it is definitely going to snap, and when it does, it will unleash plenty of force.  It is simply not physically possible without a substantial Mostali technical presence and at least 2 kilometers worth of armor enchanted rope.

And we are back to the wagons, but this time the wagons aren't on the Pavis Road.  So, remembering their little ISIS fatwah(a) against wagons, an ululating warcry breaks out and the Praxians descend upon the hapless and vulnerable portagers, who have their load on a dangerous slope.  Don't the Taliban Society nomads laugh when the driver of the laden wagon on a slope is shot between the eyes with an arrow and slumps, releasing the brake, sending the wagon careening down the slope squashing everyone in front of it, oops!  Then there is another one... and another.  It's raining battering rams!  Now of course this is not to say that the Praxians will not attack a party in a vulnerable position who are using mules to haul a log, but your profit margin depends on the quantity of wood delivered, and mules are just not a cost effective or physically practical form of transport for logs.

I am not saying it can't be done.  Clearly Baran the Monster Killer does it.  In fact the most likely people to manage the process are the Zola Fel cult.  Portaging the logs around the leaping place will require digging a sluiceway for the logs, possibly housing undines to control the loads around the corners.  It is also possible that there is an agreement to ship logs from the Redwoods, as the god Pavis was kin to those elves and the elves of the Garden are proof of that continued link.  Given the ecologically conscious nature of the cults involved however, I just don't see how it can ever be a major source of timber without damaging the forest and the river, and altering the geography.  Back to Lokarnos wagons across Prax.  I am enjoying this btw.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Darius West

[Noita]

They probably come down the same way the cradle does. 

[jajagappa]

7 hours ago, Darius West said:

So what are the drawbacks?  Well firstly you are going into an Elf forest that exists inside Troll lands.

Sounds like a heroquest to establish the trade agreements that allow access to the Elf forest and keep the trolls at bay.

 

7 hours ago, Darius West said:

Well... a 500 foot drop isn't going to do your logs much good, especially as waterfalls tend to scour the landscape beneath them to bare rock. Now when a log hits rocks from such a height the impact generally shatters your log "to shivers". As for the playful undines that slow the traverse of said logs, they had better be drawn from the souls of dead lovers who wanted to commit suicide, because redwood logs weigh many tons and are coming down that waterfall at terminal velocity

My point wasn't to have the undines catch the logs, but to slow their descent so they aren't at terminal velocity.  It's probably a stretch, as it might 'violate' the Leaping Place aspect, but a series of undines could keep the flow minimized to normal river speed.

7 hours ago, Darius West said:

And we are back to the wagons, but this time the wagons aren't on the Pavis Road. 

Not necessarily a full portage though.  There is another possibility: that trees grow on the Nine Good Giants (i.e. below the Leaping Place Falls).  They are outside the Elf Forest, they are "Good" giants (i.e. friendly to Pavis), and you can bring them to the river and then let the logs float from there.  Doesn't necessarily prevent/avoid nomad raids, but the nomads don't care about/need timber.  If the wagons stay on paths on the Good Giants, then they might not technically break any taboos about being on the plains.

[jajagappa]

22 minutes ago, Iskallor said:

They probably come down the same way the cradle does. 

Which is a valid point as the Cradle clearly goes over the Leaping Place Falls.  How?  Perhaps it's the Hand of Zola Fel?

Of course, you'd probably need a quest (or ritual propitiation based on some prior quest) to establish Zola Fel's support.

[Darius West]

46 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Which is a valid point as the Cradle clearly goes over the Leaping Place Falls.  How?  Perhaps it's the Hand of Zola Fel?

Of course, you'd probably need a quest (or ritual propitiation based on some prior quest) to establish Zola Fel's support.

I get the feeling that the Giants use some pretty major magic to get the cradles going.  Also, I doubt there are many God Learners around who are prepared to perform the same Hero Quest every week to maintain the city of New Pavis' timber industry when it is more feasible to haul the timber along the Pavis Road by wagon at a fraction of the cost and none of the magical investiture. 

[g33k]

The falls doubtless scour to bare rock... down in the bottom of a VERY deep pool.  A log that comes down lengthwise, like an oversized spear, will definitely hit the bottom HARD.  One that hits the water crosswise ... not so much.  So THAT is the aim of an undine bargain or other magic -- just to make sure the log hits the water turned the right way.  That might even be a simple "Battle Magic" spell for one of the interested Cults (Pavis / Zola Fel / etc)... "Turn Timber"..

And the pounding from the falls and undertow / churn means that worshippers cannot safely "swim in the falls" anyhow (unless magically protected), so the logs may splash them, but won't hit them.  If absolutely needed, a watch could be kept, and a warning any time a log comes down; or logs could be driven to the bank any time cultists are performing rituals in the pool ...

Magically or mundanely, these are pretty easy to solve.  Well, except for stuff like Elven fanatics, hungry Trolls, and the like...  

 

[Mark Mohrfield]

Here's a thought: maybe Pavis had a agreement with the elves of the garden to provide a certain small amount of timber each year. This was delivered to the Mostali, as they were the architects. After the fall of Pavis, with typical elder race obdurance, they just kept on delivering it the Mostali, who having nothing to do with it just kept it preserved, preventing rot by Mostali magic. When Dorasor showed up there was loads of the stuff around.

[David Scott]

7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Which is a valid point as the Cradle clearly goes over the Leaping Place Falls.  How?  Perhaps it's the Hand of Zola Fel?

Remember that the Zola Fel is the birth canal of the Rockwood Giants. The mountains and river are intrinsically linked. I suspect that from Boathouse Ruins to Leaping Place Fall is the Gestation time, Launching over the falls into the "hands" of Zola Fel is the journey down the birth canal, while the mouth of Zola Fel finally births the baby Giant into the World.

[Darius West]

On 11/8/2016 at 6:15 AM, Mark Mohrfield said:

Here's a thought: maybe Pavis had a agreement with the elves of the garden to provide a certain small amount of timber each year. This was delivered to the Mostali, as they were the architects. After the fall of Pavis, with typical elder race obdurance, they just kept on delivering it the Mostali, who having nothing to do with it just kept it preserved, preventing rot by Mostali magic. When Dorasor showed up there was loads of the stuff around.

Well, this stockpile would need a location, and the Mostali would need a compelling reason to provide their resource stockpile to Dorasor.  Next... elves and dwarves living together in sin?  Mass hysteria! That sort of arrangement might have worked while Pavis was a whole city, but I get the feeling that the Garden and the Flintnails don't love each other, so it seems a little unlikely that the harmony of the good old days will be enough.  Also, what did the elves get out of the trade?  Perhaps copper? Where would this increasingly large stockpile have been kept without being raided and carried off btw?  The Rubble is a bad place, and timber is valuable.  This also doesn't really account for New Pavis and the various settlements around it and their ongoing timber requirements.  It certainly isn't an entirely bad idea, I just don't think you can have enough timber to construct a city sitting in storage in the Big Rubble for very long.  It seems implausible to me.  There certainly could have been some sort of Flintnail timber stockpile, but nowhere near as much as is suggested; too many interested parties with sticky fingers.  

Edited November 10, 2016 by Darius West

[Darius West]

On 11/8/2016 at 9:08 AM, David Scott said:

Remember that the Zola Fel is the birth canal of the Rockwood Giants. The mountains and river are intrinsically linked. I suspect that from Boathouse Ruins to Leaping Place Fall is the Gestation time, Launching over the falls into the "hands" of Zola Fel is the journey down the birth canal, while the mouth of Zola Fel finally births the baby Giant into the World.

So when a "log" appears in the birth canal is that considered to be a "mythic fistula" ?

VOMIT WARNING!: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstetric_fistula 

...known in medieval times as a "sootikin" and completely misunderstood by commentators of the time.  Perchance the River God will form these logs into the likeness of giant mice in accordance with folkloric sources? 

Edited November 10, 2016 by Darius West

[Darius West]

On 5/30/2016 at 1:50 AM, pachristian said:

i think the cosmic truth is that if it is possible to make money off it, people will find a way to do it.

Especially in "A Town Like Pavis".

[Noita]

I think the elves and dwarves get on fine in Pavis. Flintnails kids are part elf. 

They probably dont hang out but they were all part of the original city.

[Mark Mohrfield]

7 hours ago, Darius West said:

Well, this stockpile would need a location, and the Mostali would need a compelling reason to provide their resource stockpile to Dorasor.  Next... elves and dwarves living together in sin?  Mass hysteria! That sort of arrangement might have worked while Pavis was a whole city, but I get the feeling that the Garden and the Flintnails don't love each other, so it seems a little unlikely that the harmony of the good old days will be enough.  Also, what did the elves get out of the trade?  Where would this increasingly large stockpile have been kept without being raided and carried off btw?  The Rubble is a bad place, and timber is valuable.  This also doesn't really account for New Pavis and the various settlements around it and their ongoing timber requirements.  It certainly isn't an entirely bad idea, I just don't think you can have enough timber to construct a city sitting in storage in the Big Rubble for very long.  It seems implausible to me.  There certainly could have been some sort of Flintnail timber stockpile, but nowhere near as much as is suggested; too many interested parties with sticky fingers.  

Maybe it's all part of the deal the Mostali and Aldryami made with Pavis in the first place. The fertility magic that keeps the Garden alive will fail if the Aldryami fail their part of the bargain. Likewise something nasty would happen to the Mostai if they fail to preserve it and to provide it for use by the city. They may have stored it underground.

There doesn't seem to be any history of warfare between the Pavis Mostali and Aldryami, indicating that they at least tolerate each other.

As for the non-Pavis settlements, perhaps they use different, non-wood intensive, architecture?

[Darius West]

17 hours ago, Mark Mohrfield said:

Maybe it's all part of the deal the Mostali and Aldryami made with Pavis in the first place. The fertility magic that keeps the Garden alive will fail if the Aldryami fail their part of the bargain (1). Likewise something nasty would happen to the Mostai if they fail to preserve it and to provide it for use by the city (2). They may have stored it underground (3).

There doesn't seem to be any history of warfare between the Pavis Mostali and Aldryami, indicating that they at least tolerate each other(4).

As for the non-Pavis settlements, perhaps they use different, non-wood intensive, architecture? (5)

(1)  Elves don't surrender trees, other than the ones that die of old age, willingly.  Pavis would know and respect that because he was part elf.  The notion of having his kin's forest die for not completing a deal with the Mostali, even the Flintnails seems unlikely.

(2) Mostali don't have a hell of a lot of use for wood.  That is sort of why the stockpile would exist.  As for what they would trade if such an arrangement existed?  Probably copper  from the copper caves near Dwarf Knoll in Prax, which the Flintnails have close connection to.

(3) Yes, I assumed they would store it underground. That in itself is not an answer. Where in the Big Rubble is safe enough that it wouldn't have been stolen?

(4) In fact the Flintnails and the Aldryami in the Garden have nearly nothing to do with each other.  The are both threatened by the Trolls, so they have at least that much in common. The Garden Aldryami are incredibly isolationist; that we do know.

(5) I have assumed that New Pavis has been built using either mud brick, wattle and daub, cob, rammed earth or some combination of the above, based on the architectural style of the city from the illustrations.  The primary building materials are dried reeds and mud.  The PROBLEM is that ALL these methods still require a lot of timber in all the major supports, AND the creation of second story flooring AND in much of the construction method.  You can build a mud building with 2 storys, but you get something that looks like Mos Eisley not Pavis, with huge arched support columns to support the second story.  Wood is intrinsic to the construction style for Pavic architecture based on real world examples.  If you own River of Cradles, have a look at the illustrations and you will see what I mean.  If the answer was easy, I think we might have reached it already.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Darius West

[Mark Mohrfield]

By non-Pavis settlements I was referring to those outside of both Old and New Pavis.

I'm  not so sure about Aldryami never surrendering trees. Their concern seems to me to be for the forest as a whole rather than individual trees (or individual Aldryami, for that matter.)

The Mostali would have had use for the wood for precisely the reasons you sighted back when Old Pavis was intact. Afterwards they could have just kept to the agreement because they're Mostali, and didn't/couldn't change (stasis rune).

They don't really need to have much to do with each other. The Aldyami just deliver as small amount of wood each year, and the Mostali gather it. No one even has to talk to each other.

I don't see why simply burying the lumber (with proper Mostai preservation mechanisms, of course) isn't a possible option.

 

[Darius West]

To be completely fair, I am sure that Aldryami will "police" rogue trees, but they would always kill them using food song, obviously.  Given how small the Garden is, I doubt they would be eager to give up any timber, given that their forest is their territory, and the trolls like eating wood.  A situation of Aldryami wood trade might have been possible when the city was whole, but not in the Big Rubble period.

As for just burying the wood, that is a lot of work.  I suppose it could have been placed in workings within one of the quarries, but unless kept dry timber rots, and removing water is an ongoing problem for all mine works, even in a dwarf quarry.  So yes, Mostali alchemical wood preservation techniques would have to be employed.  On the other hand, the sheer volume of the timber necessary would be prohibitive to bury, even for Mostali.  It would have to be a damn big hole, perhaps enough to bury a giant cradle, and that is a conservative estimate.