BRP book too late?

[Enpeze]

I'll ease off on 4e now, for one simple reason...I posted for a BRP group on one of the local meetup groups and got two firm bites almost immediately. There is some interest in the new rulebook around here after all, it seems. Maybe it was the way I was wording the ads. As long as I can get a game of BRP going I don't care about 4e. Oh, the bait is rebuilding a fallen empire and trying to get rich in the process. Swords and sorcery, Howard type stuff.

On a side note, to give you all an idea of just how prevalent WOTC is around here, the gamestore owner, Tim, informed me he sold 700 copies of the 4e Players' Handbook the FIRST BUSINESS DAY it was available. At this one store...800 pound gorilla, indeed.

Anyway, my :deadhorse: is done with.

4e is really nice. I makes fun to play. But you are right, its not much of a roleplaying game anymore. Not that the previous editions have been a rpg, but 4e is even less one. They write "roleplaying game" on the cover but I think thats just a kind of WotC insider joke.

But it has good rules for bashing monsters and collecting treasure...yeah! Additionally it has the advantage that you can just sit down and play without spending much preparation time. The new h1 module is a ready to play adventure with a great optical layout, coloured battlemaps and with not more than 1h prep time or so. This results in 20 combat encounters and 2 (so called) "roleplaying" encounter. :thumb:

[Simlasa]

I'm really looking forward to Jason's planetary romance game... if that's handled right I think it could really take off 'cause it mixes together a lot of elements that seem 'popular' to me. It's a genre that doesn't seem to see much attention but should be instantly recognizeable to anyone.

I can see all sorts of reasons for pulpy 'lost civilization' type adventures... lots of 'dungeon crawls'... lots of flamboyant sword fights and dueling blaster weapons... but it could get really wierd and scary as well.

I think it has a better chance of standing out on store shelves than another run-of-the-mill Eurocentric Tolkienesque fantasy setting.

[Dredj]

I'm really looking forward to Jason's planetary romance game... if that's handled right I think it could really take off 'cause it mixes together a lot of elements that seem 'popular' to me. It's a genre that doesn't seem to see much attention but should be instantly recognizeable to anyone.

I can see all sorts of reasons for pulpy 'lost civilization' type adventures... lots of 'dungeon crawls'... lots of flamboyant sword fights and dueling blaster weapons... but it could get really wierd and scary as well.

I think it has a better chance of standing out on store shelves than another run-of-the-mill Eurocentric Tolkienesque fantasy setting.

I totally agree. It's the book I'm most waiting for that's showcased on this forum. I also can hardly wait for Dead World to come out, as the industry needs more good survival horror games, IMHO:)

[Enpeze]

I'm really looking forward to Jason's planetary romance game... if that's handled right I think it could really take off 'cause it mixes together a lot of elements that seem 'popular' to me. It's a genre that doesn't seem to see much attention but should be instantly recognizeable to anyone.

I can see all sorts of reasons for pulpy 'lost civilization' type adventures... lots of 'dungeon crawls'... lots of flamboyant sword fights and dueling blaster weapons... but it could get really wierd and scary as well.

I think it has a better chance of standing out on store shelves than another run-of-the-mill Eurocentric Tolkienesque fantasy setting.

Oh yes. This could also be very good. I hope they feed it with modules too. Or maybe a campaign?

[frogspawner]

I think for Chaosium, they really need to look at some of the material they developed in the past and some of the best are the stories of Clark Ashton Smith --most especialy Zothique. ... That's one supplement I would buy in a heartbeat!

I'd love to see a Zothique RPG.

That's a brilliant idea. I haven't actually read any CAS, but the best GM I ever knew rated him most highly. The idea is perfect and poetic - following HPL's Call of Cthulhu horror, the progression to his friend CAS's Zothique fantasy just seems so... right. That symmetry alone should ensure it's success!

[badcat]

To get acquainted, do a google search for 'Eldritch Dark', and an on site search for 'Zothique'. It is a HUGE site about CAS and his work. There is a very interesting 16 page document on using the setting of Zothique in a D20 game. I know, but still. It would be a good starting point for any system. My problem is that it's just too dark, making CoC or Warhammer cheery by comparison.

[Enpeze]

Yeah, Zothique is too depressing for me. IMO its also too far away from the vanilla genre to have any chance to become really popular.

[mrk]

I dont' think Zothique is any more grim then Elric or Cthulhu. In fact, there's actually a lot of humor within the stories-- although very much dark and twisted. The worlds Smith created are some of the most fascinating and extremely rich landscapes ever published and are certainly not generic. If Zothique were not going to be Chaosium's BRP flagship, then I think the next best step is to make a book dedicted to all of Smith's setings like Hyberborea, Averogine, Xiccarph, Poseidonis, ect. Besides that, I think they have -or would have- an easier time getting the publishing rights as they have already printed some of CAS literary work ( I think some of it might even be in public domain).

Chaosium never has and never should be TSR and it's a testament to their originality by all the great material they have published through out the years. Honestly, if I want to play a vanilla-like world , I would just pick up those 4'th editions books like so many hoards of Dee n' Dee'rs are gobbling up by the bookshelf- you can't get more Haagen-Dazs then that crap.

[mrk]

Double Post.

[badcat]

Welcome, mrk. I guess you like WOTC and 4e about as much as I do. Elric and Cthulhu are too dark for me, too. I always wanted the system without the setting and now I have it.

Meanwhile, Eldritch Dark is an excellent resource for anyone who is interested in CAS and his work. Have a look if you are not already familiar with it.

[vagabond]

I dont' think Zothique is any more grim then Elric or Cthulhu. In fact, there's actually a lot of humor within the stories-- although very much dark and twisted. The worlds Smith created are some of the most fascinating and extremely rich landscapes ever published and are certainly not generic. If Zothique were not going to be Chaosium's BRP flagship, then I think the next best step is to make a book dedicted to all of Smith's setings like Hyberborea, Averogine, Xiccarph, Poseidonis, ect. Besides that, I think they have -or would have- an easier time getting the publishing rights as they have already printed some of CAS literary work ( I think some of it might even be in public domain).

Much of it is in the public domain, but I believe Arkham House is also involved

a little. Which is probably OK since Chaosium and Arkham House have ties

already.

-V

[mrk]

Hi Badcat,

There's nothing wrong if you find any of this material dark and not of your taste. What's inportant is creating and playing in a fantasy realm that you enjoy. However, is this day and age where there's so much saturation in the gaming market that it's inportant for game companies to stay original and true to their roots, as when you boil it down, the companies that have done well over the years are known for a perticular genre; Steve Jackson Games has the whole GURPS multiverse, WhiteWolf has their Vampie the Masquerade, Games Workshop for their Dark Medievalism, and TSR for their McDonalds style fantasy that too many people just love to eat up (even if they hate it). What Chaosium has is their reputation for putting out classy "Adult" based roleplaying games be it Lovecraftian horror or high fantasy Moorcockian kingdoms. You could even say that's one of the reasons why the D20 Elric book did so well.

IMHO, Clark Ashton Smith is one of the last literary beacons of classic 20''s and 30's fantasy that nobody has really touched yet that could make a great RPG setting. Heck, even Jason agrees with me :cool:

Welcome, mrk. I guess you like WOTC and 4e about as much as I do. Elric and Cthulhu are too dark for me, too. I always wanted the system without the setting and now I have it.

Meanwhile, Eldritch Dark is an excellent resource for anyone who is interested in CAS and his work. Have a look if you are not already familiar with it.

[vagabond]

You could even say that's one of the reasons why the D20 Elric book did so well.

It did? I mean, I know it sold out the first run, but there is a question as to

how many copies were printed. I know Chaosium had plenty left from the

second run, and the reviews of the book were scathing to say the least.

-V

[badcat]

I think I detect sarcasm.

I do agree CAS based material would make a good setting for BRP though. I would love to see Hyperborea, myself. There is a lot of Averoigne material out already, in 'Worlds of Cthulhu'.

[mrk]

It did? I mean, I know it sold out the first run, but there is a question as to

how many copies were printed. I know Chaosium had plenty left from the

second run, and the reviews of the book were scathing to say the least.

-V

Even just a first run is still good and probably it would of been better to have left it at that as the whole D20 market became incredibly flooded, but that's the risk's one takes. As to the reviews, who cares what some jaded critic thinks. I don't . And no matter how good BRP is, someone is bound to write something negative about it ( like in the Dragon).

[Enpeze]

Hi Bobcat,

There's nothing wrong if you find any of this material dark and not of your taste. What's inportant is creating and playing in a fantasy realm that you enjoy. However, is this day and age where there's so much saturation in the gaming market that it's inportant for game companies to stay original and true to their roots, as when you boil it down, the companies that have done well over the years are known for a perticular genre; Steve Jackson Games has the whole GURPS multiverse, WhiteWolf has their Vampie the Masquerade, Games Workshop for their Dark Medievalism, and TSR for the McDonalds style fantasy that too many people just love to eat up (even if they hate it). What Chaosium has is their reputation for putting out classy "Adult" based roleplaying games be it Lovecraftian horror or high fantasy Moorcockian kingdoms. You could even say that's one of the reasons why the D20 Elric book did so well.

IMHO, Clark Ashton Smith is one of the last literary beacons of classic 20''s and 30's fantasy that nobody has really touched yet that could make a great RPG setting. Heck, even Jason agrees with me :cool:

Maybe Zothique would suit fine for the Chaosium line of CoC products because of its "dark content". But is this all, BRP can do? Delievering another "dark" setting beside CoC? I dont think so. IMO the majority of people dont like it too dark (me included) and a whole setting full of necromancers and a "dying earth" theme would not be very successful. If done well, maybe such a setting could get a honor medal for beeing "exotic" but nothing more. I would love to invest my money in a "planetary romance" setting, a "mythical history" setting or maybe even in a "the Green" setting. But not in depressing zothique.

And I dont think that Stormbringer is as dark as Zotique (at least not for my taste). SB has alot of colourful and open positive content - like the Mio Spheres, Tanelorn as a city of heroes of the balance etc.

[badcat]

Hyperborea is as exotic and colorful and scary as Zothique but is set at the beginning of history rather than the end...

[Trifletraxor]

Zothique has quite some room for development though. It's not that many short stories describing it.

SGL.

[Harshax]

Hyperborea is as exotic and colorful and scary as Zothique but is set at the beginning of history rather than the end...

The beginning for Conan, but certainly the end for all of his enemies.

[badcat]

No, I was referring to CAS' Hyperborea. I think he wrote as many or more stories set there as in Zothique. REH borrowed the name, the setting has only the rough geographical location in common. Not much at that. CAS' Hyperborea was a triangular shaped continent approx. where modern Greenland is. There were ghoul haunted woods, a mountain that germinated monsters and other such weird elements. CAS and REH and others (Lovecraft, etc.) did correspond, so there was a lot of cross pollination going on. I like Hyperborea better partly because it has a little more sword and sorcery 'feel' than Zothique. Too many Zothique stories are about some poor bastard who accepts a horrible fate to avoid a worse horrible fate. Not much whacking the bad guys to rescue the fair maiden in Zothique. Usually the maiden turned out to be the head bad guy, as it were. Some of that in Hyperborea too, it just didn't seem as prevalent.

[badcat]

Oh, for a reference point, the Book of Eibon was about Hyperborea, Eibon being the most powerful sorcerer of that era.

[vagabond]

Even just a first run is still good and probably it would of been better to have left it at that as the whole D20 market became incredibly flooded, but that's the risk's one takes. As to the reviews, who cares what some jaded critic thinks. I don't . And no matter how good BRP is, someone is bound to write something negative about it ( like in the Dragon).

It wasn't some jaded critic, is was a large number of players, both BRP

Stormbringer fans and new blood alike. I was one of those who thought it

was an absolute hack job. And, it sat on shelves for a long time, as well as

got resold quite often.

It was a very bad book. Chaosium didn't really do much development on it

at all. They could have done far better if they really tried - they just didn't.

-V

[mrk]

Zothique or any of the CAS worlds could be a huge interest to the majority of the people who buy Chaosium products-namely CoC fans.But just because it's dark and grim wouldn't necessary make it unsuccessful. Cthulhu is INFAMOUS for it's high PC mortality rate, but it hasn't stopped people buying and enjoying the game for the past 25 years. Nore am I saying other genre's shouldn't be published. " The Green" sounds fascinating and would be the first time a game supplement would introduce people to a midworld-like setting and a "planetary space opera" could be just as great. However, none of these projects have the kind of fanbase the way CoC and SB have at the moment and starting out with a new product that dosen't try and tap into the interest of this core audience could be a missed opportunity.

Maybe Zothique would suit fine for the Chaosium line of CoC products because of its "dark content". But is this all, BRP can do? Delievering another "dark" setting beside CoC? I dont think so. IMO the majority of people dont like it too dark (me included) and a whole setting full of necromancers and a "dying earth" theme would not be very successful. If done well, maybe such a setting could get a honor medal for beeing "exotic" but nothing more. I would love to invest my money in a "planetary romance" setting, a "mythical history" setting or maybe even in a "the Green" setting. But not in depressing zothique.

And I dont think that Stormbringer is as dark as Zotique (at least not for my taste). SB has alot of colourful and open positive content - like the Mio Spheres, Tanelorn as a city of heroes of the balance etc.

[mrk]

You have a large number of people disliking the 4'th edition rules as well. Infact, NPR even mentioned about it in their interview with one of the aintitcool people how a large number of fans are disappointed with the new changes. You can't please everybody...

It wasn't some jaded critic, is was a large number of players, both BRP

Stormbringer fans and new blood alike. I was one of those who thought it

was an absolute hack job. And, it sat on shelves for a long time, as well as

got resold quite often.

It was a very bad book. Chaosium didn't really do much development on it

at all. They could have done far better if they really tried - they just didn't.

-V

[mrk]

Zothique has quite some room for development though. It's not that many short stories describing it.

SGL.

There's two books. The other is " The Last Continent: New Tales of Zothique" plus a few chapbooks. Even if you worked off of just the original Zothique book, there' so much detail in the stories that any good game designer could easly develope an entire sourcebook out of them. Afterall, look at " Sorcerers of Pan-Tang", they created a whole book on the Isle even though very little was written about it in any of the Elric Books.