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Sun Dome Temples


M Helsdon

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Karvanyar slew the imperial Golden Dragon in 910, leading a rebellion that drove the EWF from Dara Happa within seven years.

 

The same year Alakoring Dragonbreaker flew into Aggar. He defeated Sun Dome armies and other EWF forces.

 

Between the years 910-925, after freeing itself from EWF control Dara Happan armies marched south. In the Three Armies Battle in 920 the armies of Alakoring Dragonbreaker and a Carmanian adventurer fought the EWF. Alakoring fought Drang the Diamond Storm Dragon and killed it.

 

Over the next fifteen years, Alakoring led the people of Saird, including the freed Sun Dome Temples, in rebellion. The soldier-cult purged itself of all draconic influence.

 

Dara Happa retook all of its lands from the EWF and expanded southwards. A great army marched through Sylila to the Battle of Zelfield where the dragons were defeated. The EWF counterattacked, reaching as far north as Alkoth in 947 but was unable to regain control of the north.

 

In 960, on the death of Sarenesh, (an Emperor of Dara Happa of the Karvanyar Dynasty) to prevent war between his three sons, the priests enacted the Great Division of the World. The High Priest of Dayzatar awarded Dayzatar’s portion, Saird, to Verenmars. King Verenemars rallied all Saird against the dragons. He began great sacrifices to strengthen Jajagappa and raised the Jajalarings dog peoples against the EWF. Many Dara Happan colonists followed in the wake of Verenmars’ heroic wars against the EWF. Verenmars and his heirs ruled the Kingdom of Saird until 1120.

 

The Saird Sun Dome Temples eagerly supported Verenmars and his kingdom and survived the fall of the EWF in 1042 when the leaders of Empire of the Wyrms Friends were exterminated overnight.

 

In 1082, the hero Balazar introduced the cult of Yelmalio to the Votanki to the east. He met and wed a local hunting nymph and they had three sons.

 

The Sun Domes of Saird contributed much of the manpower of the Invincible Golden Horde. The destruction and devouring of those armies in the Dragonkill of 1120 severely wounded the Temples for generations, and extinguished Verenmars’ dynasty. After the Dragonkill, the weakened Sairdite culture was mostly absorbed by the neighboring Orlanthi.

 

Far to the southeast, the now isolated temple in Prax erected the Great Ballista to protect their rebuilt temple complex from draconic retribution.

 

Jannisor’s Rebellion (1271-1275) against the rising Lunar Empire included the Sun Dome Temples of Saird, allied with the Sable Tribes, and the many Orlanthi tribes surrounding Saird. Some of the Sun Dome Temples were also part of the Kynnelfing Alliance that resisted but ultimately was defeated by the Conquering Daughter in 1347. The queen of Filichet was acclaimed as Queen of Holay, as a Lunar tributary ruler.

 

Invasions by savage barbarians from Pent led by Sheng Seleris disrupted the Lunar Empire from 1375 to 1460. Much of the south was lost to the empire during this time as it struggled to survive. The Sun Dome temples endured this period, hiring out as mercenaries.

 

Holay became a battleground between Tarsh and Sylila, and was finally reduced to Lunar dependency in 1458. Saird was regained around 1480 though Lunar rule in the Provinces was not secure until 1545, when the Provincial Government was formed.

 

The Sun Dome Temples fought on all sides of these wars during Third and Fourth Wanes (1355-1462), but have been mostly allied with the Lunar Provincial Government since the Sixth Wane (1517 onwards).

Edited by M Helsdon
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On 20 June 2016 at 0:50 AM, Joerg said:

Hyalor has always been represented in context with the Storm Bull-descended Beast Riders of Prax.

As usual I'm interested in a reference for this.

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I find this discussion very interesting and also confusing. If the four of you (Peter@metcalph, @Joerg, @jajagappa @M Helsdon) would kindly cooperate and produce a timeline graphic of the evolution of Yemalio, that would undoubtably be a great help to all (with references).

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I'm afraid I don't have a timeline as there are many questions that I have yet to suss out.

The first is what happened at the Hill of Gold?  In the standard conventiional retelling as per Pavis: Gateway to Adventure p379, Yelmalio loses everything and comes out the better for it (the Passion of Yelmalio so to speak).  But according to the Glorious ReAscent p44, one of the Prince of the Ten Tests treats the Hill of Gold as a plundering expedition and comes away with the Orb of Authority.  Which would be plausible if he were a God Learner but he's not.  There's also the detail that Questors can pick up fire crystals at the Hill of Gold P:GtA p118 which allows them to circumvent the lesson that Yelmalio supposedly learned.  It's like going up to Mt Sinai to get the ten tablets and on the way down pick up pieces of the Golden Calf to allow you to use forbidden magic without God making a fuss.

But as a result of this, we can conclude that there was a tradition of a quester going up the Hill to become the Last Light.  I suppose the tradition may have been influenced by the Heortling Star Heart mystery (Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes p77).

The next innovation is the Battle of Night and Day.  Daysenervus appears and breaks the Cosmic Compromise.  History of the Heortling Peoples p21.  I think the Daysenerus cult was about using Illumination  to use Light Feats etc that previously required a ridiculous amount of purity, noble blood etc.  Presumably at this time the Sun Domers organized themselves as a phalanx to make themselves useful while they were still trying to become illuminated.   Perhaps it was a mandate by the Emperor - provide x amount of phalanxes rather than sit around doing nothing.  The Illuminates were killed by Arkat and what was left behind was a pallid cult of light worshipping spearmen.

The relevation of Tharkantus I don't have much of an idea.  I'm not convinced it was Kargzant related.  I think the secret died out in the battles against the EWF and the surviving cultists not having much a reason to oppose them any longer decided to fight for them instead.  And that is how they came to Prax.

The next phase of Yelmalion evolution comes from the Empire of Sheng Seleris IMO.  He is a big fan of native fire cults and gruesome austerities and so the Sun Domers of Dragon Pass acquired a tradition of ridiculous geases to makes themselves acceptable to Sheng Seleris.    This is undocumented and inferred from that the Empire controlled Prax (Guide to Glorantha p142)

Finally Monrogh.  As per King of Sartar p169, I feel his innovation was not bringing back the secret of Yelmalio but to provide an interpretation of Yelmalio that avoided overt submission to the Emperor that in return didn't bring out the Orlanthi bushwhackers.  In other words, they were sufficiently not servants of the Emperor to be accepted to Orlanthi tribals everywhere and sufficiently disciplined that they could be trusted as agents of distant Kings. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, David Scott said:
On 20.6.2016 at 1:50 AM, Joerg said:

Hyalor has always been represented in context with the Storm Bull-descended Beast Riders of Prax.

As usual I'm interested in a reference for this.

I have started a bigger diatribe on Hyalor and horses, put on hold for other projects I need to finish.

The Yamsur connection places the incident within Genert's Garden - nobody outside of Prax and the Wastes ever mentions Yamsur. The Dara Happans don't have a solar hero fighting at Earthfall (they hid under Manarlavus' dome at the time).

Anaxial's Roster mentions the Ten False Steeds fought by the Sered horses after their fight against the Hyal (descendants of Hippoi, which would have come with Hyalor, right?) and were conquered by Hyalor. Who would those false steeds be?

And then there is the horse taboo of the Praxians. It is not a taboo against sky steeds, after all ostriches are accepted even though they are definitely not an Eirithan herd beast. But it may be a protest against having a former carnivore who used to feed on the herd beasts partake in the bounty of Eiritha.

If not Praxians, then at least everything in the Hyalor myth points to Genert's Garden.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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8 hours ago, David Scott said:

I find this discussion very interesting and also confusing. If the four of you (Peter@metcalph, @Joerg, @jajagappa @M Helsdon) would kindly cooperate and produce a timeline graphic of the evolution of Yemalio, that would undoubtably be a great help to all (with references).

I have a text description, but not a graphic one.

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7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Anaxial's Roster mentions the Ten False Steeds fought by the Sered horses after their fight against the Hyal (descendants of Hippoi, which would have come with Hyalor, right?) and were conquered by Hyalor. Who would those false steeds be?

Anaxial's Roster is hardly canonical, especially the one liner mythlets contained in the creature descriptions.  

You would be on much stronger ground citing KoS p165 "The Animal Nomads and the horse nomads had been feuding since before the beginning
of Time. Both [Pentans and Praxians - PHM] claimed they were the chosen children of Genert, the dead god whose land was wasted."

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10 hours ago, David Scott said:

I find this discussion very interesting and also confusing. If the four of you (Peter@metcalph, @Joerg, @jajagappa @M Helsdon) would kindly cooperate and produce a timeline graphic of the evolution of Yemalio, that would undoubtably be a great help to all (with references).

I don't have a graphic, but here is an annotated version, with sources and assumptions noted. There are a few things I can't source but found somewhere marked with ???. History of Dragon Pass in the Second Age is on Glorantha.com and assumed to be canonical.

The temple-fortress to Manimat and Antirius at Haranshold originally built in the First Age also boasts several gold domes.  GtG

The city of Kesium is now best known for its golden-domed temple to Antirius, built by the Bright Eagle Lords of Rinliddi in the Dawn Age of Peloria. GtG

The first temple complex in the style of the later Sun Dome Temples was built by Kestingatha of Kesium, one of the Bright Eagle Lords. His temple of Antirius, a golden dome set atop a square base, was completed sometime between 145 and 155. TGRoY, HotHP

Mahzanelm, an Emperor of the Khordavu Dynasty, conquered Rinliddi and Vanch around 345-350. The Dara Happans sought to ensure that the barbarian lands could be kept under their control. The Emperor commissioned the construction of a grand structure that would be both temple and a military enclave for his troops. This temple was in the form of a dome within a walled compound entered via a stepped walkway. HotHP

One of the settlements the Emperor destroyed during his southern campaign was Lolon, inhabited since the Dawn. This was the home of the Tunoraling hunter-gatherers who worshipped Heliacal the Sun and his wife Negalla the Green Woman. GtG

After the First Theyalan War (366-368), more of the Dara Happan-style Sun Dome Temples were built – one was even built atop the ruins of Urar Baar (a troll trading place at the confluence of the Oslir and the Black Eel rivers). These were similar to the earlier temple built by Kestingatha, being set on a square base, which was now consecrated to Hastatus, the spear god. In all, five Sun Dome Temples served as Dara Happan military anchors to keep the rebellious Theyalans under the control of the High Council. HotHP

It was at the Battle of Day and Night in 379 that the constructed god Nysalor revealed Daysenerus - an aspect of Antirius who brings Antirius’ Justice to the barbarians - to be the deity of the Sun Dome Temples. Daysenerus’ first deed when invoked was to crush the army of Kyger Litor and his first new temple was built upon the site of that victory.  WF#15

During the years that followed, new Sun Dome Temples dedicated to Daysenerus were built throughout the lands occupied by the Bright Empire. HotHP

The Daysenerus cult was given good lands confiscated from rebellious Heortlings after the Theyalan Wars. The military might of these enclaves supported the rule of the Bright Empire. However, their association with Nysalor proved to be their downfall. When Arkat raised the Heortlings in their final successful rebellion, vengeful Orlanthi and their troll allies destroyed every Sun Dome Temple they encountered and eradicated the name Daysenerus from Peloria. HotHP

According to Monrogh of Sartar, a dubious source, Sereventh in Sylila was the only temple to Daysenerus to survive the destruction of the Bright Empire. P:GtA

Other sources claim it was used by Ordanestyu in his Cold Light Fires Uprising and to revive the culture of Dara Happa after the fall of the Bright Empire. ??? [I seem to have derived this from the mention of Ordanestyu's Torch HotHP.]

During the ensuing period of troll and Heortling domination of southern Peloria, the other Sun Dome Temples were relit by the prophet Severinalus the Rekindler. Severinalus named the god Tharkantus, the Empty Saving Hearth, prepared for the darkness to come. He settled many temples, for many places prepared once again for the time that the fires all went out. P:GtA

Tharkartus was later recognized to be the same entity as the Elvish Sun god, Halamalao, and in many places the two races shared worship for centuries. History of Dragon Pass in the Second Age

In 562 a Sun Dome Temple was founded in Holay. TrollPak

Trolls resisted the construction but met with disaster when a trollkin lieutenant betrayed the attack because the White Women among the Sun Domers had treated him kindly. ???

Circa 640 another was established at Domanand (modern Mirin’s Cross) in Saird at the edge of Orlanthland, built as a stronghold against the dragons and their followers. It boasted unique enclosed domes with anti-dragon runes upon their surface, and despite its Solar nature provided a center of resistance for the Orlanthi Traditionalists against the Draconic Orlanthi to the south for a long time. History of Dragon Pass in the Second Age

The city of Lolon was also rebuilt. GtG

Initially, the cult of Yelmalio fiercely resisted the rise of the Kingdom of Orlanthland from their city of Domanand and spearheaded armies invading the upland regions. CoP, History of Dragon Pass in the Second Age

Saird became a battleground between Domanand and Orlanthland, which was transforming into the Empire of the Wyrms Friends. But by 750 the EWF conquered Saird; the gold domes of Domanand were shattered - their ruins are still apparent in the modern city. The Lament of Domeland, composed by several poets who survived the catastrophe, recalls the fall of the city. History of Dragon Pass in the Second Age

The EWF revealed the Draconic Sun to the survivors. Assumption

The Sun Dome Temples subsequently became a major military arm of the empire with their soldier-cultists used as mercenaries. Many new temples to Yelmalio were established on the frontiers of the EWF in Fronela, Ralios, and near Pent and in its core lands in Dragon Pass. P:GtA

Another was built at Hesterneo in Esrolia, later destroyed by Queen Orenda. E:tLoTTG

Dara Happa was occupied by the EWF in 850 after its Emperor was killed by elite members of the Golden Dragon Society. History of Dragon Pass in the Second Age

In 877 the first Arrowsmith king of the city of Pavis in Prax requested aid from the Sun Dome Temple in Dragon Pass against the trolls and giants. The mercenaries were granted lands to the south of the city. A new Sun Dome Temple was built on the edge of the Wastelands. P:GtA

Karvanyar slew the imperial Golden Dragon in 910, leading a rebellion that drove the EWF from Dara Happa within seven years. TFS

The same year Alakoring Dragonbreaker flew into Aggar. He defeated Sun Dome armies and other EWF forces. History of Dragon Pass in the Second Age

Between the years 910-925, after freeing itself from EWF control Dara Happan armies marched south. In the Three Armies Battle in 920 the armies of Alakoring Dragonbreaker and a Carmanian adventurer fought the EWF. Alakoring fought Drang the Diamond Storm Dragon and killed it. History of Dragon Pass in the Second Age

Over the next fifteen years, Alakoring led the people of Saird, including the freed Sun Dome Temples, in rebellion. The soldier-cult purged itself of all draconic influence. Assumption

Dara Happa retook all of its lands from the EWF and expanded southwards. A great army marched through Sylila to the Battle of Zelfield where the dragons were defeated. TFS

The EWF counterattacked, reaching as far north as Alkoth in 947 but was unable to regain control of the north. History of Dragon Pass in the Second Age

In 960, on the death of Sarenesh, (an Emperor of Dara Happa of the Karvanyar Dynasty) to prevent war between his three sons, the priests enacted the Great Division of the World. The High Priest of Dayzatar awarded Dayzatar’s portion, Saird, to Verenmars. King Verenemars rallied all Saird against the dragons. He began great sacrifices to strengthen Jajagappa and raised the Jajalarings dog peoples against the EWF. Many Dara Happan colonists followed in the wake of Verenmars’ heroic wars against the EWF. Verenmars and his heirs ruled the Kingdom of Saird until 1120. TFS, History of Dragon Pass in the Second Age

The Saird Sun Dome Temples eagerly supported Verenmars and his kingdom and survived the fall of the EWF in 1042 when the leaders of Empire of the Wyrms Friends were exterminated overnight. P:GtA

In 1082, the hero Balazar introduced the cult of Yelmalio to the Votanki to the east. He met and wed a local hunting nymph and they had three sons. Griffin Mountain

The Sun Domes of Saird contributed much of the manpower of the Invincible Golden Horde. The destruction and devouring of those armies in the Dragonkill of 1120 severely wounded the Temples for generations, and extinguished Verenmars’ dynasty. After the Dragonkill, the weakened Sairdite culture was mostly absorbed by the neighboring Orlanthi. Assumption

Far to the southeast, the now isolated temple in Prax erected the Great Ballista to protect their rebuilt temple complex from draconic retribution. MOB website

Jannisor’s Rebellion (1271-1275) against the rising Lunar Empire included the Sun Dome Temples of Saird, allied with the Sable Tribes, and the many Orlanthi tribes surrounding Saird. Some of the Sun Dome Temples were also part of the Kynnelfing Alliance that resisted but ultimately was defeated by the Conquering Daughter in 1347. P:GtA

The queen of Filichet was acclaimed as Queen of Holay, as a Lunar tributary ruler. GtG

Invasions by savage barbarians from Pent led by Sheng Seleris disrupted the Lunar Empire from 1375 to 1460. Much of the south was lost to the empire during this time as it struggled to survive. The Sun Dome temples endured this period, hiring out as mercenaries. Assumption

Holay became a battleground between Tarsh and Sylila, and was finally reduced to Lunar dependency in 1458. Saird was regained around 1480 though Lunar rule in the Provinces was not secure until 1545, when the Provincial Government was formed. GtG

The Sun Dome Temples fought on all sides of these wars during Third and Fourth Wanes (1355-1462), but have been mostly allied with the Lunar Provincial Government since the Sixth Wane (1517 onwards). P:GtA

Edited by M Helsdon
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On 6/19/2016 at 11:03 PM, M Helsdon said:

Yelm the Rider riders ride flying creatures, specifically griffins? Not horses.

Well, according to Wyrms Footprints, "Yelm the Rider is another famous aspect of the Sun God. The original steed of Yelm was King Griffin, ancestor of the great race of sun-loving creatures. Ever since that time the cult has taught the skill of riding flying beasts (specially griffins). However, when Yelm was slain King Griffin quarrelled with the other light gods and his children withdrew themselves from being slaves to people who rode them. Thus it is that so few people ride on these wondrous animals, even where the sun is worshipped".

From this, I assume that some cultists of Yelm the Rider ride flying beasts, but most probably ride horses. Very few ride griffins. I suppose hippogriffs are possible, but they are very rare. I cannot see Yelm cultists ridging draconic creatures or Sky Bulls, Pegasi are not common in Glorantha, so what other beasts can they ride?

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11 hours ago, David Scott said:

I find this discussion very interesting and also confusing. If the four of you (Peter@metcalph, @Joerg, @jajagappa @M Helsdon) would kindly cooperate and produce a timeline graphic of the evolution of Yemalio, that would undoubtably be a great help to all (with references).

Dawn Age: Antirius - not certain, but based on architecture GtG; Avivorus who seems to be an avatar of Antirius becomes Hastatus, the Spear God TGRoY.

Dawn Age: Daysenerus WF#15, GS email previous copied here.

Second Age: Tharkantus/Yelmalio P:GtA etc.

Third Age: Yelmalio CoP, WF#15 etc.

Analysis of names:

Daysenerus: No idea. us is a Dara Happan suffix.

Tharkantus: us is a Dara Happan masculine suffix. Rest of the name? No idea, but there's a slight resemblance to Kargzant.

Yelmalio: Y(u) seems to be a Dara Happan word meaning 'god'; elmal seems to be a Theyalan word meaning sun/gold; io - no reference but seems to be a diminutive: see P:GtA meaning Little Sun.

 
Edited by M Helsdon
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1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

Dawn Age: Antirius - not certain, but based on architecture GtG; Avivorus who seems to be an avatar of Antirius becomes Hastatus, the Spear God TGRoY.

 

That's incorrect (although it is what Plentonius claims).  Hastatus appears on the Gods Wall which means he was worshiped as a God in the Golden Age.  Avivorus wields the Sunspear against Emperor Orogoros in the Storm Age.  

Ergo Hastatus and his Spear preceded Avivorus and his Sunspear by a thousand years.  In HQ terms, Avivorus would teach the Sunsear Feat while Hastatus would have an affinity involving general spear combat (but I don't think this extends to pike and shield combat since it was unknown when he was worshiped).

 

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1 hour ago, soltakss said:

From this, I assume that some cultists of Yelm the Rider ride flying beasts, but most probably ride horses. Very few ride griffins. I suppose hippogriffs are possible, but they are very rare. I cannot see Yelm cultists ridging draconic creatures or Sky Bulls, Pegasi are not common in Glorantha, so what other beasts can they ride?

Wyrm Footprints IMO is so old that some of the more high fantasy elements were included in many cult descriptions without much forethought.  Looking at the Wall and the Glorious ReAscent, there's little sign of anybody riding any griffins or other flying creatures in Dara Happan mythology.  As a result, the cult of Yelm the Rider has become toned down into a more pedestrian age occupation among the Pentans (Dastal the Hunter) and that there is no tradition of riding flying creatures in Dara Happa (that's not to say there are more modern practices but they would not originate with Yelm).

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16 minutes ago, metcalph said:

 

That's incorrect (although it is what Plentonius claims).  Hastatus appears on the Gods Wall which means he was worshiped as a God in the Golden Age.  Avivorus wields the Sunspear against Emperor Orogoros in the Storm Age.  

I suspect that many of the identifications on the Gods Wall are suspect, as is its age. All that is really known is that it is from the God Time, before Time.

I would also note that WF#15 (page 77) states that Hastatus is a title of Avivorus.

 

16 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Ergo Hastatus and his Spear preceded Avivorus and his Sunspear by a thousand years.  In HQ terms, Avivorus would teach the Sunsear Feat while Hastatus would have an affinity involving general spear combat (but I don't think this extends to pike and shield combat since it was unknown when he was worshiped).

As Avivorus was active before Time, the sequence of events is debatable. The Dara Happan chronology is suspect because of its use of its 'perfect' 'poetic' numbers, such as 100,000.

As for hoplite phalanx warfare, that 'dates' to Daxdarius.

Edited by M Helsdon
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1 hour ago, soltakss said:

Well, according to Wyrms Footprints, "Yelm the Rider is another famous aspect of the Sun God. The original steed of Yelm was King Griffin, ancestor of the great race of sun-loving creatures. Ever since that time the cult has taught the skill of riding flying beasts (specially griffins). However, when Yelm was slain King Griffin quarrelled with the other light gods and his children withdrew themselves from being slaves to people who rode them. Thus it is that so few people ride on these wondrous animals, even where the sun is worshipped".

From this, I assume that some cultists of Yelm the Rider ride flying beasts, but most probably ride horses. Very few ride griffins. I suppose hippogriffs are possible, but they are very rare. I cannot see Yelm cultists ridging draconic creatures or Sky Bulls, Pegasi are not common in Glorantha, so what other beasts can they ride?

Glorious ReAscent of Yelm states in the Ovosto section:

" The descendants of Yelm no longer had fine clothing or plates, nor riding birds or jewelry anymore." His predecessor's record laments the loss of the last great gazzam.

The riding birds would be similar to ostriches or augners, e.g. the vergs named in Kestinoros' description. Giant Vrok Hawks are a distant possibility, but there is no evidence for that.

I don't see any evidence for horses in Dara Happa - there is no evidence for chariots, either, so there wouldn't be any horses to pull it.

Edited by Joerg

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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Just now, M Helsdon said:

I suspect that many of the identifications on the Gods Wall are suspect, as is its age. All that is really known is that it is from the God Time, before Time.

The iconography is closer to the original practice rather than the GRAY text which was compiled in the Dawn Age.  Given that there's been little change in the appearance of many gods (Doburdon was identified as being on the weall through his iconography although Plentonius appears not to have known him, the similarity of contemporary iconography of the Gods with their Gods Wall appearance would be a fairly strong piece of evidence.

 

Just now, M Helsdon said:

As Avivorus was active before Time, the sequence of events is debatable. The Dara Happan chronology is suspect because of its use of its 'perfect' 'poetic' numbers, such as 100,000.

The Dara Happan chronology parallels the Orlanthi (Fire Tribe/Storm Tribe etc) and also the Vithelans, Malkioni and Doraddi.  You can assert the the precise datings are bogus but to say that one event really happened in a different era requires far stronger evidence.  Compounded that with Avivorus using a Sunspear where Hastatus is shown as using a more mundane spear, I doubt that the identification of the two as the same god is tenable.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, metcalph said:

The iconography is closer to the original practice rather than the GRAY text which was compiled in the Dawn Age.  Given that there's been little change in the appearance of many gods (Doburdon was identified as being on the weall through his iconography although Plentonius appears not to have known him, the similarity of contemporary iconography of the Gods with their Gods Wall appearance would be a fairly strong piece of evidence.

The GRoY text is all ultimately suspect as it is a construct in the attempt to recreate the pre-Time culture. Given the low number of survivors at the Dawn, the actual memory of God Time events is tenuous. As the Gods Wall is a major surviving artifact, it was used in that reconstruction, but the accuracy of the reconstruction, as the debates illustrate, is subject to doubt. The use of iconography to identify many gods is suspect, because in many cases the modern iconography was derived from the Gods Wall, without any absolute certainty. It's circular logic.

16 minutes ago, metcalph said:

The Dara Happan chronology parallels the Orlanthi (Fire Tribe/Storm Tribe etc) and also the Vithelans, Malkioni and Doraddi.  You can assert the the precise datings are bogus but to say that one event really happened in a different era requires far stronger evidence.  Compounded that with Avivorus using a Sunspear where Hastatus is shown as using a more mundane spear, I doubt that the identification of the two as the same god is tenable.

And that's an example of the doubtful use of iconography to derive mythological attributes, and vice versa. It simply isn't possible to fix the Gods Wall to any specific period; it isn't even certain as to which god is represented as the emperor, especially as it apparently shows Yelm as a pile of dust.

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I love such Gloranthan discussions!

So, what do we have here?
Horses, Yelmalio and Saird. All spinned-off from Sun Dome Temples :-)

I am not as learned as previous writers on this thread, but please allow me to throw some more confusion...

Let me start with horses (puts Meldek high hat on).
"So, what is a horse?"

A horse is a creature of Fire, that was ripped of its wings, and turned into a four-legged animal rambling the surface of the Earth.
It was then tamed, or domesticated, and so that riders would be able to move faster and further.

"That is the myth - the childish stories these heathens tell at night in their pitiful huts.
But you know more now, my young apprentice.
Let me repeat my question: what is a horse?"

Yes, Master, of course.
The essence of a horse is made up of Sky, Beast, Movement and Mastery.
That is how one may analyze it.

"Good, good, young fellow.
We needn't rely on fairy tales to practice proper sorcery, do we?
Now, keep going, and let me know more about these components of the Horse..."

Fire (or Sky) is the Origin - the Element that nourishes the existence of Horse.

Beast is the Form: the shape and type of creature where we classify horses ancestry traced from Sky.

Movement is the Power - what Horse can manipulate, and why we manipulate them. They move fast, and can carry loads or riders.

Mastery is the Condition - the way we use to manipulate the Power, or even use the Form or trace all the way to the elemental energy. Although of course, we shall not tap a horse, Master.
By mastering a horse, a rider may tame and harness its power; which, in turns, gives us the ability to Command and Master lowly people, thanks to our superior cavalry, that pagans rightfully envy us.

"That is well-answered, yound wizard. I shall think of you when the Talar asks for help..."
;-)


Allright, so Gloranthan horses are somehow related to various Runes.
And, unsurprisingly, the Deities that are linked to horses are also somewhat tied to these Runes.
Who did we mention? Let me think...

Yelm (Fire/Mastery):
- THE god of Fire, Yelm is the source of sky creatures
- the Mastery expressed in horses may be a remnant of Hippogriff's position at Yelm's Court, when the Sky was Perfect
- however, Yelm is also a Stasis God; not quite fitting the Movement exemplified by horses, and their (often nomad) riders
- I quite like the story of the Sandals, and horses becoming a way to keep purity in an impure world (where the sky itself is now moving...)

Hippoi (Fire/Beast?):
- aka Hipogriff, she was the mount of Splendid Yamsur, Yelm's Eldest Son
- Daughter of Griffin, Yelm's steed
- She was broken by various enemies (Urox, Zorak Zoran, Maran Gor), and stripped of flight
- I would envision her as the Mother of Horses, i.e. their ancestor cult (for intelligent horses)


Redaylda (Fire/Movement):
- Daughter of Ernalda and Orlanth, she should be part of the Earth tribe (in HW Storm Tribe, she had Earth/Beast)
- aka Redalda, Redaylde or Redayla
- she is the Horse-Lover Goddess
- wife of Elmal, who is a Fire deity with a pre-existing relation to horses
- somehow related to Reladivus...

Gamara (?):
- presumably another name for Hippoi and/or Redaylda? (among the "Pentan" horse nomads)

Arandayla (?):
- presumably another name for Hippoi? (among the Grazers)

Hyalor (?):
- He helped and domesticated Hippoi, after she was broken
- Son or descendant of Yamsur
- Ancestor of the Hyalorings, i.e. Grazers, Char-Un, and some modern Pentans

Reladivus (Fire/Truth):
- another name for Yelmalio?

Elmal (Fire/Truth):
- unclear son of Yelm
- might be another name for Yelmalio? (I know this is open to debate; but hey, the question may be asked!)

Antirius (Fire/Truth):
- another name for Yelmalio? (among the Dara Happans)

Kargzant (?):
- Son of the Sun
- another name for Yelmalio? (among the Grazers)

Daysenerus:
- another name for Yelmalio (1st Age Saird)

Tharkanthus:
- another name for Yelmalio (2nd Age Saird)

Yu-Kargzant:
- another name for Yelm (among the Grazers)

Halamalao:
- another name of Yelmalio (among the elves)


So, we get plenty of cults based on plenty of gods... and spread across plenty of cultures!
Dara Happans, and Theyalans/Orlanthi, and Pentan Horse Nomads, and Pure Horse People/Grazers/Hyalorings (who actually differ from Pentans! Yeehaa, some more new insights about the Grazers...).

And the funny bit is: of course, across Time, ALL these cultures & people somehow met in Saird :-)
If you love horses, it seems like Saird is THE place to be!


(Wraps hiself in shades, and grasps a three-arrowed staff)
"Certainly, all that is well, and you have learnt the Paths.
But you must know your enemy better, so tell me more about the God of Palangio."

Yelmalio is a mysterious God, Ô Wise One.
He was seduced by Bright Nysalor, or at least Palangio was.
But we know little of the Paths he walked.

We may acknowledge him, in spite of our enemity, some True Honor - as shows in the duel of Kartolin Pass...

"I know all this, young fellow.
But come to the point: what is the link between Yelmalio and horses?"

Apart from geases and Sun Dome cavalry, it is hard to tell, Dark Lord.
However, isn't it funny that, like Hippoi, he is a broken but surviving Fire God?

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32 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

The GRoY text is all ultimately suspect

Agree, and especially if you think that it conflates the stories/myths of:  Raibanth, Yuthuppa, Alkoth, Rinliddi, and Kostaddi at a minimum, and probably Darjiin, Hyalorings, and the Pentan horse riders.

 

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I have a few disagreements with Martin's conclusions, but overall a very good compilaiton.

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

According to Monrogh of Sartar, a dubious source, Sereventh in Sylila was the only temple to Daysenerus to survive the destruction of the Bright Empire. P:GtA

While I agree that the source is dubious, I would extend this to the entire conclusions based on P:GtA. This write-up clearly caters to the situation in Prax, with influence from the Sartarite temple, and is hardly applicable e.g. to the Goldedge temple.

 

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

In 562 a Sun Dome Temple was founded in Holay. TrollPak

 

Trolls resisted the construction but met with disaster when a trollkin lieutenant betrayed the attack because the White Women among the Sun Domers had treated him kindly. ???

Trollpak, too. Almost the next paragraph.

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Circa 640 another was established at Domanand (modern Mirin’s Cross) in Saird at the edge of Orlanthland, built as a stronghold against the dragons and their followers. It boasted unique enclosed domes with anti-dragon runes upon their surface, and despite its Solar nature provided a center of resistance for the Orlanthi Traditionalists against the Draconic Orlanthi to the south for a long time. History of Dragon Pass in the Second Age

I will point out again and again that the draconic attackers were the suppressed minority faction in a civil war that pushed them to the fringes, attacking the Traditionalist leaders of Orlanthland.

At 640, Yelmalians and Orlanthland leaders fought a common enemy. A decade or three later, the dragonfriends gained a foothold in the ruling council of Orlanthland, and managed to draw the majority of the Orlanthi to their side. FInally, the Traditionalists took refuge with the Yelmalians, and there were a few decades of conflict between Orlanthland and the rebels in Domanand.

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Initially, the cult of Yelmalio fiercely resisted the rise of the Kingdom of Orlanthland from their city of Domanand and spearheaded armies invading the upland regions. CoP

CoP: Cults of Prax? That source definitely said EWF, not Orlanthland. Only the EWF was still a rebel organisation of mystics. Given the dedicated anti-dragon fortifications, the Yelmalians must have angered the dragonfriends in a special way.

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Saird became a battleground between Domanand and Orlanthland, which was transforming into the Empire of the Wyrms Friends. But by 750 the EWF conquered Saird; the gold domes of Domanand were shattered - their ruins are still apparent in the modern city. The Lament of Domeland, composed by several poets who survived the catastrophe, recalls the fall of the city. History of Dragon Pass in the Second Age

I don't know how the civil war fared while Orlaront sat on the ruling council of Orlanthland. The sources you cite indicate that the conflict between Domanand and (a faction of) dragonfriends continued, and affected the surrounding lands (i.e. Saird). When the dragonfriends finally conquered Domanand, Orlanthland had changed into the EWF.

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

In 960, on the death of Sarenesh,

Wrong. Sarenesh abdicated, but remained as paternal advisor (the New Ordanestyu) - probably in order to keep his treaty with his father-in-law, Nadar the Avenger, shah of Carmania.

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

(an Emperor of Dara Happa of the Karvanyar Dynasty) to prevent war between his three sons, the priests enacted the Great Division of the World. The High Priest of Dayzatar awarded Dayzatar’s portion, Saird, to Verenmars. King Verenemars rallied all Saird against the dragons. He began great sacrifices to strengthen Jajagappa and raised the Jajalarings dog peoples against the EWF. Many Dara Happan colonists followed in the wake of Verenmars’ heroic wars against the EWF. Verenmars and his heirs ruled the Kingdom of Saird until 1120. TFS, History of Dragon Pass in the Second Age

The Saird Sun Dome Temples eagerly supported Verenmars and his kingdom and survived the fall of the EWF in 1042 when the leaders of Empire of the Wyrms Friends were exterminated overnight. P:GtA

The influx of Dara Happans probably altered the demography of the Sun Dome lands. I doubt that all Sun Dome Temples followed Verenmars eagerly. But History is written by the heirs of the victors.

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

The Sun Domes of Saird contributed much of the manpower of the Invincible Golden Horde. The destruction and devouring of those armies in the Dragonkill of 1120 severely wounded the Temples for generations, and extinguished Verenmars’ dynasty. After the Dragonkill, the weakened Sairdite culture was mostly absorbed by the neighboring Orlanthi. Assumption

The Sairdite culture had always been variant Orlanthi, with the Jajalarings having a special role comparable to that of the Aramites in Dragon Pass - a native culture that shared some traits of the majority Orlanthi and had opposing tenets in others.

The cult of Yelmalio in Saird was a Theyalan cult (to avoid the word "Orlanthi"), not a Dara Happan one, and had been so for quite a while, both wearing the anti-dragon and the dragonfriend mantles.

The "Kingdom of Saird" identity created by Verenmars always required a foe in order to keep cohesion. Verenmars and his dynasty had the EWF and its successors, Hwarin Dalthippa and Phargentes had the hill tribe rebels, Argrath had the remnants of the Lunar Empire.

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Invasions by savage barbarians from Pent led by Sheng Seleris disrupted the Lunar Empire from 1375 to 1460. Much of the south was lost to the empire during this time as it struggled to survive. The Sun Dome temples endured this period, hiring out as mercenaries. Assumption

Sylila ruled most of Saird, and held out against Sheng. The borders would shift back and forth, though.

 

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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43 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

And that's an example of the doubtful use of iconography to derive mythological attributes, and vice versa. It simply isn't possible to fix the Gods Wall to any specific period; it isn't even certain as to which god is represented as the emperor, especially as it apparently shows Yelm as a pile of dust.

It doesn't show Yelm as a pile of dust, Plentonius writes that pile of dust on the wall is  a portion of Yelm and ascribes the apparent contradiction to Yelm's foresight.  That's a big difference.  If you look at the Entekosiad, you see a reference to the Ash Man whose description is a much better fit than what Plentonius says.  

So while Plentonius' description of what the God Walls can and should be challenged, it does not follow that we cannot put the Gods Wall down to any specific period.  It shows an Emperor receiving worship from the Gods of Five Peoples (four of whom are shown wearing dress corresponding to Rinliddi, Zarkos, Darsen and Suvaria).  The Emperor is seated on a dais held up by a women crowned with a city.   That shows that cities were important in his empire.  Among the Gods is Oslira the River Goddess and the ten sons and workers who helped Lodril in taming the river.  That shows that the river had been tamed and was being used for agriculture.  All this and more places the Gods Wall as being constructed within the Late Golden Age.  

 

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8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

I love such Gloranthan discussions!

So, what do we have here?
Horses, Yelmalio and Saird. All spinned-off from Sun Dome Temples :-)

I am not as learned as previous writers on this thread, but please allow me to throw some more confusion...

Let me start with horses (puts Meldek high hat on).
"So, what is a horse?"

A horse is a creature of Fire, that was ripped of its wings, and turned into a four-legged animal rambling the surface of the Earth.
It was then tamed, or domesticated, and so that riders would be able to move faster and further.

The Pentan section of the Guide p.364 tells us otherwise. There, the riders of the Hyal that descended from the mutilated hippogriff are called the Liars. The horse section in Anaxial's Roster that basically is a reproduction of an earlier 12 page essay on horses in Glorantha gives the sered horse as the standard horse of northeastern Glorantha, and tells about a conflict between the sered people and the Pure Horse people.

But a western sorcerer has the history of the Danmalastan horses, that were descended from the Zzaburite Perfect Beasts. These have no pesky hippogriff mutilation in their backstory.

Neither do the Galanini horses of Ralios and further east, also quite familiar to western wizards. These are Hykimi (Hsunchen) animals, born from Galanin the horse father, possibly a son of Ehilm the Sun God of Ralios and Mikyh the Beast Mother of the Hykimi.

It would be logical to assume a Hykimi/Hsunchen/Korgatsu origin of the Sered horses, too (and Anaxial's Roster does provide such an ancestry with its Kralorelan origin myth). These sered horses appear to have been adopted by Kargzant. Again, not former hippogriffs.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

 


Allright, so Gloranthan horses are somehow related to various Runes.
And, unsurprisingly, the Deities that are linked to horses are also somewhat tied to these Runes.
Who did we mention? Let me think...

 

Yelm (Fire/Mastery):
- THE god of Fire, Yelm is the source of sky creatures
- the Mastery expressed in horses may be a remnant of Hippogriff's position at Yelm's Court, when the Sky was Perfect
- however, Yelm is also a Stasis God; not quite fitting the Movement exemplified by horses, and their (often nomad) riders
- I quite like the story of the Sandals, and horses becoming a way to keep purity in an impure world (where the sky itself is now moving...)

Yelm as per RQ3 cult write-up is a composite deity. All his horse connections come through lesser suns, like Ehilm of Ralios, Kargzant of Peloria, Elmal of Maniria, or Yamsur of Genert's Garden. Yelm of ancient Dara Happa was associated with gazzam (earth shakers, dinosaurs, probably fluffy feathered ones) and riding birds.

Creatures of fire are relying in Great Yelm for their access to the fire rune, but generally have ancestries that doesn't have Yelm's blood involved.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Hippoi (Fire/Beast?):
- aka Hipogriff, she was the mount of Splendid Yamsur, Yelm's Eldest Son

The Hyaloring horse, of the Liar tribe. The magical odd-horse-out.

Hippoi is a beast goddess, the horse, and not a caretaker goddess.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

- Daughter of Griffin, Yelm's steed

In one version of the myth. In other, more recent ones, Hippogriff has an enmity with griffins.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

- She was broken by various enemies (Urox, Zorak Zoran, Maran Gor), and stripped of flight
- I would envision her as the Mother of Horses, i.e. their ancestor cult (for intelligent horses)

Ancestress of the Hyal horse. As mentioned above, there are several other horse origin myths, none of which indicates a carnivorous ancestor.

I doubt that Hippoi serves as ancestress for the less magical horse types, even though those still may have fire deity ancestry, except for the Danmalastan breeds.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Redaylda (Fire/Movement):
- Daughter of Ernalda and Orlanth, she should be part of the Earth tribe (in HW Storm Tribe, she had Earth/Beast)
- aka Redalda, Redaylde or Redayla
- she is the Horse-Lover Goddess
- wife of Elmal, who is a Fire deity with a pre-existing relation to horses
- somehow related to Reladivus...

The caretaker goddess for horses. While Redalda has a myth of turning into a horse, Redalda/Reladiva is generally a rider goddess and horse breeder goddess. Her favourite horses are those tied to the Hippogriff myth, but she takes care of all horses, regardless of their origin.

 

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Gamara (?):
- presumably another name for Hippoi and/or Redaylda? (among the "Pentan" horse nomads)

Horse goddess (not rider goddess) of Nivorah, according to the Dara Happan sources we have. A cognate of Hippoi, a horse-headed goddess who formerly possessed wings. No mention of claws or beak, though - could have been a pegasus before her mutilation.

Her role as underworld goddess on the Gods Wall offers other possibilities, too, like e.g. Ethilrist's Diokos demons of his Black Horse Troop.

Peter calls the Pentans with their non-Hippoi horses (or their riders/charioteers) Gamatae, using at least part of Gamara's name.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Arandayla (?):
- presumably another name for Hippoi? (among the Grazers)

The Grazers have Hyal-descended and Sered-descended stock, but managed to breed back a pure strain, the Goldeneye or New Hyal breed that is special to the Grazers.

The Grazers are descendants of the Pure Horse Folk - Pentans who switched to the Pure Horse Ways of their priestly caste, then took a contract with the EWF to patrol the Praxian marches. The Zebra Riders of Pavis and their beasts are descended from one splinter group of these.

The Grazer creation myth of cutting up a centaur to undo the Remaker's creation of Pain Centaurs probably contributes to the Grazer lifestock magic, too, but in the end points back to the horses the Pure Horse Folk of Prax brought with them. Which were mostly sered horses with a strain of hyal bred into the horses maintained by the old, hereditary priestly caste.

 

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

 

Hyalor (?):
- He helped and domesticated Hippoi, after she was broken
- Son or descendant of Yamsur
- Ancestor of the Hyalorings, i.e. Grazers, Char-Un, and some modern Pentans

Also ancestor of two of the Vingkotling tribes (Berennethtelli and Orgovaltes).

Hyalor is the archetypical first horse rider (much like Diros is the first human boater), who tamed a horse and then rode it. The Orlanthi associate him with Elmal. Pentans with Kargzant. The Ralians might not venerate him, being descendants of the Hykimi horse god Galanin through his son Eneral. If there were Kralori horse hsunchen along with the Sered horses, they were subsumed into the Gamatae tribes along with their beasts.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Reladivus (Fire/Truth):
- another name for Yelmalio?

In the male form, yes. In the female form, this is Redaylde/Redalda, the rider/horse breeder goddess of Nivorah/Jillaro.

Like most planetary "sons" of Yelm who have a female aspect, there is likely a Lunar connection, too.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Elmal (Fire/Truth):
- unclear son of Yelm
- might be another name for Yelmalio? (I know this is open to debate; but hey, the question may be asked!)

Elmal is one of the Solar Brothers, sons or nephews of Yelm (though not through Lodril).

The modern cult of Yelmalio - at least the version proselytized by Monrogh - inherited the Elmal body of myths. The Rekindle affinity and the imunity to death by Chaos may stem from this source. The Hyalor/Kushile connecton probably stems from this influence.

 

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Antirius (Fire/Truth):
- another name for Yelmalio? (among the Dara Happans)

Not another name for Yelmalio. Antirius might be named a father of Yelmalio, in that Daysenerus (the god of Palangio) was a messenger or portion of Antirius.

Antirius is a portion of Yelm, Yelm's Authority and Justice. While he shares the Hill of Gold as a place to quest to and to be fatally wounded, Antirius succumbs to the wound received there on his second such quest.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Kargzant (?):
- Son of the Sun
- another name for Yelmalio? (among the Grazers)

Kargzant is the Sun Horse, the planet Lightfore, the sun god/spirit of the Pentans. A parallel to Galanin, or Elmal's steed in Heortling Mythology.

The adoption of the Hyalorings by the Horse Warlords during the Dara Happan occupation in the Dawn Age conflated the lost sun god of the Hyalorings (IMO Yamsur) with Kargzant the Sun Horse. This possibly happened when Orlanth bridled Kargzant, and both horse cultures were weakened.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Daysenerus:
- another name for Yelmalio (1st Age Saird)

The god of Palangio, solar wargod of the Bright Empire. The origin of the Templars.
 A messenger (and/or portion, aka son) of Antirius.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Tharkanthus:
- another name for Yelmalio (2nd Age Saird)

2nd Age Yelmalio, whether against the dragonfriends or with them.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Yu-Kargzant:
- another name for Yelm (among the Grazers)

The Grazer name for Kargzant, with some elements of Emperor Yelm inherited.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

Halamalao:
- another name of Yelmalio (among the elves)

The fire or sun god of the elves, much like Eron (Arroin) is the water/rain god of the elves. Source of all the elf-friend stuff going on with the Yelmalio cult.

 

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:


So, we get plenty of cults based on plenty of gods... and spread across plenty of cultures!
Dara Happans, and Theyalans/Orlanthi, and Pentan Horse Nomads, and Pure Horse People/Grazers/Hyalorings (who actually differ from Pentans! Yeehaa, some more new insights about the Grazers...).

There are three more origins of horses to keep in mind - sorcerous horses of Danmalastan, Hykimi Sun horses of the Galanini, Failed Hsunchen or at least the beasts from Kralori myth.

8 minutes ago, Patrick said:

And the funny bit is: of course, across Time, ALL these cultures & people somehow met in Saird :-)
If you love horses, it seems like Saird is THE place to be!

So says the tourist board of Jillaro, with its own Hyaloring breed, the Jillaran.

 

 

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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3 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Analysis of names:

 

Daysenerus: No idea. us is a Dara Happan suffix.

Tharkantus: us is a Dara Happan masculine suffix. Rest of the name? No idea, but there's a slight resemblance to Kargzant.

Yelmalio: Y(u) seems to be a Dara Happan word meaning 'god'; elmal seems to be a Theyalan word meaning sun/gold; io - no reference but seems to be a diminutive: see P:GtA meaning Little Sun.

 

My thoughts on this from my notes trying to figure out Dara Happan (naturally YGWV, and these are likely highly heretical):

Yelmalio: Yu seems to be Firespeech for Imperial/High/Celestial, with Y(u)-Elm being Imperial Sun. No Dara Happan names end with an o sound, suggesting this isn't Dara Happan native. In Theyalan we don't find -alio as a suffix, but we do find -liol (Blessed of). If his name was Yelm-liol, with the a added as epenthesis, and the last l dropped; it would make some sense. While often given as Little Sun, Yelmalio may be Blessed of the Imperial Sun, referring to his role as the son of the sun.

Tharkantus: Th seems to mean spirit or being, as seen in Yuth (Imperial Spirit, or god), the various -gatha names (probably gat-th-a, or spirit home/avatar), and the four Overseers. Specifically the four Overseers include it within the syllable "Arth", meaning overseer (or tutelary deity), which is found reversed here. Th-ar likely has the same or a similar meaning, regarding his role as a guardian of the Sun Domes. I am unsure over the meaning of Kan, although it is also the same as Ken in several other names, as well as Kan.

Daysenerus: Day likely means first (Dayzatar (First Child Overseer, referring to his birth order, and role overseeing the heavens), Dayen (Preceeder, one who goes first,) Dyan (One)). Sen may be a corruption of Shen (Foot), and Er is a masculine syllable of some kind (possibly man?) Dayserenus could be the First Foot Man or herald. Nysalor's Harbinger.

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6 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

According to Monrogh of Sartar, a dubious source, Sereventh in Sylila was the only temple to Daysenerus to survive the destruction of the Bright Empire. P:GtA

Actually this (and a further quote) is from History of the Heortling Peoples p108.  And before calling Monrogh a dubious source, it's kind of important to show that he actually is dubious.

 

 

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Quote

The horse section in Anaxial's Roster that basically is a reproduction of an earlier 12 page essay on horses in Glorantha gives the sered horse as the standard horse of northeastern Glorantha, and tells about a conflict between the sered people and the Pure Horse people.

I should caution once again that although the horse information is quite Greggly in origin, since it has not re-appeared in the New Canon, it like Lives of Sedenya, Shreds of Light and Reason should assumed to be postcanonical.

Quote

Neither do the Galanini horses of Ralios and further east, also quite familiar to western wizards. These are Hykimi (Hsunchen) animals, born from Galanin the horse father, possibly a son of Ehilm the Sun God of Ralios and Mikyh the Beast Mother of the Hykimi.

They would be postcanonical if the people who tended them were actually Hsunchen.  But the Galanini were Orlanthi.

Quote

Peter calls the Pentans with their non-Hippoi horses (or their riders/charioteers) Gamatae, using at least part of Gamara's name.

Gamatae or Gametae comes from the Glorious ReAscent footnote 120 p37 (most recent edition).

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