[BRP Space] Core Rules Question

[Mankcam]

Yes I think everyone wants to know what system BRP Essentials is going to be built off.

It's unlikely to be the BGB, otherwise it can just remain in print as is.

It's not going to be in any MRQ SRD direction either, which brings it down to a trimmed down version of the two contemporary BRP lines: CRQ4 or CoC 7E.

For a generic system it may make more sense to be built of CoC 7E, but how much will be kept and how much will be altered? For example, it could easily use the CoC 7E skill difficulties and bonus/penalty dice, yet keep the Characteristics at their original BRP score level (not %) to remain in keeping with the traditional stat blocks.

But who knows? Yes a vague direction would be handy for authors, and also to GMs who are tinkering with their own settings and want players to have a consistent system. In some ways I think I may have wished BRP Essentials to be the next release after CoC 7E, then followed up with CRQ4. 

An announcement regarding the direction of BRP Essentials would be good I think.

 

Edited June 21, 2016 by Mankcam

[clarence]

I couldn't agree more. I did try to get a sneak peek, an early beta or anything really, but I suppose the rules aren't in a state where they can be shared with outsiders. 

[rust]

46 minutes ago, Mankcam said:

An announcement regarding the direction of BRP Essentials would be good I think.

Indeed, and with so many new and interesting d100 systems entering the market Chaosium risks to come too late to the show with BRP Essentials.

[K Peterson]

Chaosium seems to have their hands full with other priorities at this time. Being "late" or missing out on publishing independently-submitted content might not be that important.

It appeared that one of BRP Essentials' primary purposes was to serve as the backbone for other in-house products - a new edition of Mythic Iceland, and whatever other product lines they've got under their hat. And even BRP Essentials, and its supported products, seem way down the list of importance compared with getting CoC7e on the right track and prepping for the release of CRQ4.

It ends up being a good window of opportunity for other publishers, like TDM, who can broaden their catalog with Mythras Space, or Mythras Starships... or whatever it's called. 

 

[Atgxtg]

Another possibility could be to go with your own ruleset. 

 

it's not as daunting at it sounds. A lot of what you need to run a SciFi/Space type campaign is already imn the book. All you would need would be some basic rules for handling task resolution and such. Going with a homebrew system would also free you up from being subject to the whims of a third party who produces the core RPG. That lets you keep developing the game if we should go through a repeat of what is happing with BRP. 

 

Actually, let me change that to when we should go through a repeat of what is happing with BRP. One thing that's been apparent in the current era of RPGs is that most companies seem to pruce a core book, then ditch it later to do a whole new edition.

[Mankcam]

As an aside, Revolution also sounds cool, but I think the release may be some time away yet, so it won't help your current situation. However there are some really neat game mechanics being developed there. 

Edited June 22, 2016 by Mankcam

[Questbird]

On 6/19/2016 at 3:13 AM, clarence said:

I had all four on my shortlist, but narrowed it down to the hottest candidates for this thread : )

With all variables counted, Mythras seemed like the best choice to me. BRPE is quite hard to know where it's going, so Revolution and OpenQuest actually feel like safer bets at this time. 

Don't forget there is already River of Heaven, a fully realised science fiction variant of OpenQuest. Your Space/Starships rules could live there. D101 games have a high quality standard too.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Questbird

[clarence]

11 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Another possibility could be to go with your own ruleset. 

The fundamental idea of BRP Space was (and still is) to provide a sci-fi ruleset for the "baseline" BRP system. If I were to develop my own system, it would have to be different to every other version to be interesting/worthwhile - thus going against the idea of BRP Space. 

Regarding River of Heaven, I think it is hard to know if the two titles will attract more players by operating together, or if they are similar enough to work as competitors. I do hope they strenghten each other.

[rust]

6 hours ago, Questbird said:

Don't forget there is already River of Heaven, a fully realised science fiction variant of OpenQuest. Your Space/Starships rules could live there. D101 games have a high quality standard too.

While I really like River of Heaven its granularity is a little low (OpenQuest is perhaps the "simplest" - not meant in a derogatory sense - of the d100 systems), and I suspect that it could prove difficult to convert between River of Heaven and any d100 system with a higher granularity, like BRP or Mythras.

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, clarence said:

The fundamental idea of BRP Space was (and still is) to provide a sci-fi ruleset for the "baseline" BRP system. If I were to develop my own system, it would have to be different to every other version to be interesting/worthwhile - thus going against the idea of BRP Space. 

 

Well, since you are switching systems (to BRP Essentials or Mythras Imperative) anyway, the concept of it being a sci-fi ruleset for the "baseline" BRP system is shot. 

The game rules wouldn't have to be all that different or even all that complex. You really only need to cover the basic rules you need to play. Pretty much like Future World, but with actual spaceships!

 

But' it just a suggestion. 

 

[Guest Vile Traveller]

56 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Pretty much like Future*World, but with actual spaceships!

Missed a bit.

 

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, clarence said:

The fundamental idea of BRP Space was (and still is) to provide a sci-fi ruleset for the "baseline" BRP system. If I were to develop my own system, it would have to be different to every other version to be interesting/worthwhile - thus going against the idea of BRP Space. 

 

LOL! I was actually considering editing the post to put the asterisk in but decided against it as too, er, nitpicky. 

[Gollum]

17 hours ago, clarence said:

I couldn't agree more. I did try to get a sneak peek, an early beta or anything really, but I suppose the rules aren't in a state where they can be shared with outsiders. 

I suppose (I just suppose, I absolutely don't know for sure) that Mythic Iceland's author, Pedro Ziviani, is already working with a draft of BRP Essentials for the new edition of his game. So, this draft may already exist ... Unless Pedro Ziviani is directly working with BRP Essential's author ... Or unless he is BRP Essential's author ...

The problem is that if you, Clarence, go to another publisher, Starships/Space and Odd Soot will be written for another D100 system. For the fans of that system, it will be good news. But for those who don't really like that other system, it will be bad news.

At the limit, as long as it is just game world (Odd Soot), there is no insurmountable problem. Attributes and skills are roughly the same and conversions will be quite easy to do. But for something with much more rules (Starships/Space), there will be many little incompatibilities. Combats rules are different, for instance, and, so, spaceship combat rules will be different. That will make the game much more hard to convert in the new BRP system when it will be published out.

I absolutely understand that BPR Essentials is not a priority for Chaosium. K Peterson is perfectly right here. And I also can understand that some secrets have to be kept (even when I don't know the exact reason).

But please, Chaosium's editors or authors, please, do all what you can to keep Clarence with us. Send him a draft, as it is. Or give him enough hints to start his work. Or, if all that is not possible, just convince him to wait with good arguments of your choice!

I'm absolutely not saying that you should tell all of us what BRPS essentials will be (even if I would like to know, of course). I'm just saying that you should give authors much more hints to help them going on with the BRP system. Otherwise, they won't have any other choice than going away to another publisher.

Loosing Starships/Space and Odd Soot would really be a pity.

[clarence]

5 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Well, since you are switching systems (to BRP Essentials or Mythras Imperative) anyway, the concept of it being a sci-fi ruleset for the "baseline" BRP system is shot. 

Well, OpenQuest and Mythras are as close as I can get at this point. 

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

At the limit, as long as it is just game world (Odd Soot), there is no insurmountable problem. Attributes and skills are roughly the same and conversions will be quite easy to do. But for something with much more rules (Starships/Space), there will be many little incompatibilities. Combats rules are different, for instance, and, so, spaceship combat rules will be different. That will make the game much more hard to convert in the new BRP system when it will be published out.

Loosing Starships/Space and Odd Soot would really be a pity.

You're not loosing BRP Space and Odd Soot: ) The good thing with both of them is that mechanics are freestanding and modular. They can be plugged into most BRP versions without much change.

For BRP Space I'm not altering the way starships are designed or how they fight. And if you want to make and run characters from another d100 version, that shouldn't be a problem either. 

Odd Soot, as Gollum points out, is more of a setting book turned full game (as it just kept getting deeper, better, bigger - and I just enjoyed writing for it). A few mechanics will be included, the main being what I call the EGO Engine, a way to keep track of inner health & balance. This is also devised as a plugin, easy to use in most BRP versions. 

All in all, I believe the choice of system is not going to exclude users of other systems. That's not to say I wouldn't like to get a look at BRP Essentials tomorrow though.

 

[rust]

18 minutes ago, clarence said:

That's not to say I wouldn't like to get a look at BRP Essentials tomorrow though.

Perhaps you would like to buy one of my excellent time machine construction plans, all you need to get a look at BRP Essentials yesterday are a little tin foil and a not so little amount of money ... 

[Mysterioso]

8 hours ago, rust said:

While I really like River of Heaven its granularity is a little low (OpenQuest is perhaps the "simplest" - not meant in a derogatory sense - of the d100 systems), and I suspect that it could prove difficult to convert between River of Heaven and any d100 system with a higher granularity, like BRP or Mythras.

This seems backwards. Making simple more complicated is far easier than making complicated simpler.  So wouldn't it make sense to start out simple for a generic D100 Space rule set and then allow people to bolt on the extra D100 rules as they want?  

[rust]

5 minutes ago, Mysterioso said:

This seems backwards. Making simple more complicated is far easier than making complicated simpler. 

Well, I usually found it easier for example to delete or combine skills than to introduce additional ones, or to delete rules from a system than to add them to a system.

[Mankcam]

I am inclined to think that if it is a game using the MRQ line then OQ is the way to go, purely because it is so simple and easy to port to other BRP settings. Plus you just import the bits of the OQ SRD that you need directly into the BRP Space rules and that's that.

Otherwise I would be inclined to wait longer to see what direction BRP Essientials is going in.

[Mysterioso]

3 hours ago, rust said:

Well, I usually found it easier for example to delete or combine skills than to introduce additional ones, or to delete rules from a system than to add them to a system.

Ahh!  The combining of skills I do get.  I do like broad skills with the player then stating how he/she will use them. 

OTOH, it seems far more difficult to strip out rules.  Combat in particular seems this way. 

[clarence]

12 hours ago, Mankcam said:

[...] then OQ is the way to go, purely because it is so simple and easy to port to other BRP settings.

Now, that's an interesting thought Mankcam. I will take another look at OpenQuest with that in mind. I'm just getting a feeling that it's too simple, but that could be wrong. 

Edited June 23, 2016 by clarence

[Mankcam]

Well the core rules of the SRD are simple, there are no combat options like RQ6/Mythras, but that can also be a positive thing as some people find those combat options too clunky.  The good thing is Mythras players could easily play your setting even if the rules are OQ, they just add the Mythras combat options and hit locations and they are good to go.

I am assuming the skill list can be ballooned out as required and you can plug in what you need to make it setting-specific, but you may need to contact Newt directly regarding things like that.

I'm sure OQ will be the least expensive option, and it will have a lot of versality.

I would wait for BRP Essientials, but OpenQuest would be my next option for these BRP Space rules.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Mankcam

[DreadDomain]

12 hours ago, Mankcam said:

I am inclined to think that if it is a game using the MRQ line then OQ is the way to go, purely because it is so simple and easy to port to other BRP settings. Plus you just import the bits of the OQ SRD that you need directly into the BRP Space rules and that's that.

Otherwise I would be inclined to wait longer to see what direction BRP Essientials is going in.

Hmmm... nah. OQ is just too minimalistic for my taste. I'd prefer Mythras Imperative...

[Mankcam]

I prefer Mythras for hand to hand combat,  its very tactile with hit locations, and the combat options are great. 

Not sure if all that is necessary for a sci-fi setting however. I would think the focus would be on other things that Clarence may bring to the party, like technology, vehicles/ starships, etc

I guess a minor drawback for Mythras would be that Clarence's document would need to reference two other documents, Mythras Imperative and Luther Arkwright ( or the Firearms pdf). The Firearms options would be essential to a setting like this.

Whereas the OpenQuest SRD could have portions of it directly plugged in to the BRP Space rules, meaning that it could be a stand-alone product.

But either system is good. I guess Mythras has an advantage of having a bigger following. 

Now if this is released as a digest sized hardcover with a predominantly black cover, it may feel like Traveler with a D100 skill resolution. That would be cool...

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by Mankcam

[Atgxtg]

On 6/22/2016 at 6:47 AM, clarence said:

On 6/22/2016 at 3:48 PM, rust said:

Perhaps you would like to buy one of my excellent time machine construction plans, all you need to get a look at BRP Essentials yesterday are a little tin foil and a not so little amount of money ... 

Sure, send them over. I'll pay you after I look up tomorrow's lottery numbers. 

[rsanford]

On 6/23/2016 at 4:34 AM, Mankcam said:

I prefer Mythras for hand to hand combat,  its very tactile with hit locations, and the combat options are great. 

 

Now if this is released as a digest sized hardcover with a predominantly black cover, it may feel like Traveler with a D100 skill resolution. That would be cool...

 

Ooooh I like the idea of a black digest with silver writing...