FAMOUS DUCKS OF THE HERO WARS!

[Joerg]

On the matter of non-mammalian boobs and nourishing liquids, just as aldryami boobs should generate nectar, so might sweat-lactating platypus duck females have some special down to soak up liquid that might bulge out a little.

Imitation of organs by feathers isn't exactly unknown - great creste grebes, "horned owls" or "eared owls" for instance.

[Lordabdul]

For those who are going with the interpretation of actual ducks being cursed during the God War, you can look at some simple facts about the difference between male and female ducks, which indicates, for instance, that common species of ducks have males with flashy or bright colours while females have dull/brownish/greyish colours. For some races, the males only have those bright colours during mating season... how that translates to Gloranthan ducks, I'll leave it to interpretation. IMHO it would be cool for Durulz to have feathers changing colours, and have big fertility/mating festivals during which other species (especially humans) would be totally banned from approaching their lands.

The most fascinating fact about ducks however is (bear with me here) how their penises work. To be honest, only a very small percentage of ducks have penises (most ducks do like most other birds do, and fertilize the female through a "cloacal kiss"), but the very few that do, especially the Muscovy duck, here, have really fucked up penises. That's because those ducks basically rape the females, and so the females evolved vaginas shaped like corkscrews to prevent penetration, and the males had to evolve something that could navigate that, in some kind of "genital arms race". If you have a table of players who really hate the idea of sentient ducks in their fantasy world, you can make the Durulz descended from a species like that one, and that would make for a really fucked up, disgusting and repelling bunch of NPCs.

Edited August 4, 2019 by lordabdul

[jeffjerwin]

I don't recommend what lordabdul suggests. I think it's better to have the durulz be repellant on the basis of the composition of their feathers. Also, perhaps, their smoking habits and general air of superiority.

[Akhôrahil]

18 hours ago, lordabdul said:

For those who are going with the interpretation of actual ducks being cursed during the God War, you can look at some simple facts about the difference between male and female ducks, which indicates, for instance, that common species of ducks have males with flashy or bright colours while females have dull/brownish/greyish colours. For some races, the males only have those bright colours during mating season... how that translates to Gloranthan ducks, I'll leave it to interpretation. IMHO it would be cool for Durulz to have feathers changing colours, and have big fertility/mating festivals during which other species (especially humans) would be totally banned from approaching their lands.

The most fascinating fact about ducks however is (bear with me here) how their penises work. To be honest, only a very small percentage of ducks have penises (most ducks do like most other birds do, and fertilize the female through a "cloacal kiss"), but the very few that do, especially the Muscovy duck, here, have really fucked up penises. That's because those ducks basically rape the females, and so the females evolved vaginas shaped like corkscrews to prevent penetration, and the males had to evolve something that could navigate that, in some kind of "genital arms race". If you have a table of players who really hate the idea of sentient ducks in their fantasy world, you can make the Durulz descended from a species like that one, and that would make for a really fucked up, disgusting and repelling bunch of NPCs.

 

[Lordabdul]

Haha yeah exactly 😂

But really, as silly as these facts sound, they help (along with other less ridiculous facts about ducks) build a more original vision of Durulz. As @Shiningbrow says, it's easy to anthropomorphize these types of creatures too much. That's why we like the Gloranthan take on elves and dwarves, because they feel like entirely different species instead of "like humans, but with this and that". That's what I want for the ducks in my Glorantha, especially since I know several players at my table would smirk and go "ducks? really?", so I definitely want to introduce ducks that makes them go "holy fuck! ducks!" instead.

Edited August 5, 2019 by lordabdul

[Sir_Godspeed]

Sure, but having Durulz society based on rapey males is... iffy.

Weird biology though? Sure.

[JonL]

On 8/4/2019 at 1:34 PM, lordabdul said:

The most fascinating fact about ducks however is (bear with me here) how their penises work. To be honest, only a very small percentage of ducks have penises (most ducks do like most other birds do, and fertilize the female through a "cloacal kiss"),

In my view, Durulz embody the Man Rune enough that they have sexually differentiated junk , because they have to be sufficiently compatible with other Man Rune kindreds as to (at least theoretically) be able to somehow interbreed. (Oddly apropos: the 13G game I played in at Gen Con last week did tangentially include a Duck and Human who had settled down together, though the intimate practicalities thereof were neither relevant to nor explored at the game table.)

On 8/4/2019 at 1:34 PM, lordabdul said:

That's because those ducks basically rape the females...

The term generally used by biologists etc. in the context of animal species that exhibit this sort of behavior is "forced copulation." As the concepts of consent, autonomy, and volition as humans know them are at best only vaguely present in animal minds and behavior, "rape" in the human-sense is considered a poor conceptual match for animal behavior. Much like we don't usually think of animals  as "murderers" when they kill, the moral regard that humans (should) have for one another is not part of their behavioral framework.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Sure, but having Durulz society based on rapey males is... iffy.

Durulz are Orlanthi. Rape is the path of Chaos. A Duck who does not respect sexual consent should be be cast out of the flock as an outlaw, and be left at the "mercy" of any local Babeester Gor, Urox, Vinga, etc. followers (to say nothing of the victim and any family/friends thereof, who can now attack the rapist outside of any prohibitions on kinstrife or obligations for compensation/retaliation).

That having been said...

7 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

...but the very few that do, especially the Muscovy duck, here, have really fucked up penises... the females evolved vaginas shaped like corkscrews to prevent penetration, and the males had to evolve something that could navigate that, in some kind of "genital arms race".

I actually kind of like the idea of Ducks having bizarre (to human eyes) junk, that individuals can feel at turns self-conscious or proud about as befits their personality and circumstances. One can even imagine Ponsonby Fairflanks gaining something of a steamy reputation among the more... adventurous human ladies participating in Nochet's seasonal fertility rites. 

Edited August 5, 2019 by JonL

[Lordabdul]

23 minutes ago, JonL said:

The term generally used by biologists etc. in the context of animal species that exhibit this sort of behavior is "forced copulation."

True. I knowingly used "rape" to drive home the point that if someone wanted to translate this to their Glorantha's Durulz, that would pretty much be what it is. But yes, it's iffy. Maybe the proximity with Delecti is making the ducks... iffy indeed.

24 minutes ago, JonL said:

Durulz are Orlanthi

Are they? (checks GtG) Oh my I totally missed that. Indeed, so they can't be culturally too far off then yeah, my bad. I'll have to find other ways to make them look weird then, since I still don't like the idea of them being basically cartoonish versions of the PCs.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Honestly, I really love that the Ducks are considered Orlanthi. Sure, odd Orlanthi, but Orlanthi enough nonetheless. To an orthodox Heortling Sartarite, their web-footed neighbors are (arguably) part of the in-group, whereas Sun-worshippers of Peloria are the enemy.

It mirrors some real-life ethnic identities (exaggerated, of course, since we only have one sapient species in the RW), where group-boundaries cross what might seem to be the most "logical" barriers to an outsiders.

[g33k]

2 hours ago, lordabdul said:

... I'll have to find other ways to make them look weird then, since I still don't like the idea of them being basically cartoonish versions of the PCs.

My favorite, honestly, is just to play up the racial affinity to the Death Rune.

I mean... they may be kind of oddly comical, but really:  it doesn't get any more badass than to have the Death Rune as an entire species.  But wait, you say:  Trolls?  feh, mere Darkness.

[Lordabdul]

Today is a stat holiday in Canada so I had some free time... here's something! There's a bunch of problems with it that I'm sure the old grognards will tear into 😅 but basically I wanted to see a Duck that's not standing upright as much. In the future I want to further explore the idea that the feathers stop at the wrist and the hands are the same bone/skin texture as the feet. I hope you like it a bit!

[Sir_Godspeed]

If I remember correctly, the original inspiration for the Ducks was straight up foul-tempered cartoon ducks like Daffy and Donald, hence why the cartoony look has stayed.

I really like your rendition though, not necessarily just because it's more realistic, but playing with the anthropomorphic traits and making them more forward-leaning reminds me of serious attempts at speculative evolution for sapient birds or sapient dinosaurs, the best of which generally incorporate that posture.

Not sure if this is digital or not, but great "inking" anyways.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Sir_Godspeed

[g33k]

I quite like this.  Especially enjoying the "crest-like" helmet, vaguely dinosaurian.

I find the feet a bit oversized, fwiw.

The eyes are utterly non-duck-like... but I wouldn't change them at all!

I'd like to see a longer sword -- based on what looks like a stumpy little arm, set far back on the body, this probably doesn't have even as much reach as his bite!

[Lordabdul]

18 minutes ago, g33k said:

I'd like to see a longer sword -- based on what looks like a stumpy little arm, set far back on the body, this probably doesn't have even as much reach as his bite!

Yeah after I started inking the drawing I realized the problem -- although I would have fixed it the other way, i.e. by giving the duck longer arms. As it is, I'm pretty sure the arms are too short to even put and remove the helmet 😂  A longer sword might be a problem depending on where the sheath is... it might be ok if they keep the weapon on their back, since, when you consider non-upright ducks, their backs suddenly become a much more useful place to carry things.

Another thing of note is that since most ducks have fairly long and thin necks, I figured maybe those are spots worth protecting, hence my little experiment with a trio of armored necklaces hanging from strings from the helmet. Not sure if that's practical or even useful -- what would other types of neck protection look like?

[g33k]

7 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Another thing of note is that since most ducks have fairly long and thin necks, I figured maybe those are spots worth protecting, hence my little experiment with a trio of armored necklaces hanging from strings from the helmet. Not sure if that's practical or even useful -- what would other types of neck protection look like?

The "coif" is usually chainmail, but does cover the area.  I see no reason the same couldn't be done as scale, or ring...

Originally, the "hauberk" was supposedly just a shoulders/neck thing (per the etymology -- dunno if it's attested in the archeology?), but most usage (and in particular, RQG usage!) is the tunic/shirt type armor.

I can imagine that some ducks might favor "scale" armor etched with a feather pattern!

 

[Sir_Godspeed]

Alternatively, he could be wearing the sword in a slung under his belly/chest.

[Shiningbrow]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

I can imagine that some ducks might favor "scale" armor etched with a feather pattern!

Scale is for fish!

[Lordabdul]

10 hours ago, g33k said:

The "coif" is usually chainmail, but does cover the area.  I see no reason the same couldn't be done as scale, or ring...

Ah right, good idea!

[g33k]

9 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Scale is for fish!

Or for Dragons, surely!

And dinosaurs... Saurischians...  Ornithischians... (I hope you see the slippery garden path, here...)   😁

[Bill the barbarian]

12 minutes ago, g33k said:

9 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Scale is for fish!

 Or for Dragons, surely!

And dinosaurs... Saurischians...  Ornithischians... (I hope you see the slippery garden path, here...) 

and union musicians...
Not too mention stand-up comics (too late)... and quit calling me Shirley, dammit!

[g33k]

45 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

and union musicians...
Not too mention stand-up comics (too late)... and quit calling me Shirley, dammit!

Come now, Bill...  I understand you need to behave professionally about union musicians...   But Shirley you aren't claiming the non-Union ones can't even play a scale??!?

That'd be... Uh... Confederate ones?  Or is that ancient-enough history that you meant the Other C... Canadian ones?

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

play a scale

Play a scale or play for scale? Two different things! Whilst a union musician can definitely play for scale...

[Rick Meints]

On 8/5/2019 at 9:23 PM, Sir_Godspeed said:

If I remember correctly, the original inspiration for the Ducks was straight up foul-tempered cartoon ducks like Daffy and Donald, hence why the cartoony look has stayed.

Greg Stafford said his original inspiration for ducks was Uncle Scrooge drawn by Carl Barks, with a bit of Howard the Duck thrown in. Neither Daffy nor Donald were the core inspiration.

[Sir_Godspeed]

14 minutes ago, Rick Meints said:

Greg Stafford said his original inspiration for ducks was Uncle Scrooge drawn by Carl Barks, with a bit of Howard the Duck thrown in. Neither Daffy nor Donald were the core inspiration.

Scrooge is drawn from the same basic visual design, personality traits and narrative as Donald Duck, so I'm gonna say it was "klos enuf".

I remember being told that Greg put them in there at the behest of a friend, but I have no idea whether that's hearsay or not. Not that it really matters.

[Rick Meints]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Scrooge is drawn from the same basic visual design, personality traits and narrative as Donald Duck, so I'm gonna say it was "klos enuf".

I remember being told that Greg put them in there at the behest of a friend, but I have no idea whether that's hearsay or not. Not that it really matters.

Greg offered each of the playtesters of White Bear & Red Moon the chance to immortalize themselves by having a place on the game map named after them. That is why there are places with the names of Biggle Stone, Pimper's Block, and Swenstown. Duck Point was named by Greg's co-publisher of Wyrd magazine, Brian Crist. Brian was a huge fan of Carl Barks. He wanted Duckburg, from the comics, but since the Air Pirates had just been successfully sued by Disney Greg was worried about the same thing happening, and changed it to Duck Point for copyright reasons, which was OK with Brian.