Cyberpunk Setting

[CanTANK]

Yeah, I see what you mean. It's making Cyberpunk feel more dated for me. 

I can envision a transhuman universe with Cyberlimbs then. Something like Infinity. Or, I'd argue, Ghost in the Shell. 

[SDLeary]

I don't think cyberware makes you crazy, but I think certain cyberware can certainly ease you along that path.

'Warez that enhance you physical prowess (cue Simon in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...), that increase your strength, or ability to withstand physical punishment, that allow you to crush someones skull in your bare hand or to withstand the round of a high powered rifle fired a point blank range, are especially corrupting. They subtlety change your thought, create a conflict of Self. "Am I human anymore? If not, what have I become? Am I a monster? I seem more than human. Why should I conform to the will of puny humans?", etc. This mindset can lead to increasing Violence

Others, such as cerebral jacks, ocular implants, and raw data storage are pretty safe... when QA has done their job, and the bean counters have not substituted parts out of spec to save a few pennies. Jolts to your processing center can cause anomalies over time. Data bleed might blur your memories and the data you are moving. Paralysis and amnesia might induce a feeling of Helplessness.

Mechanically, I do not see the existing SAN system, or variations of it, as sufficient for a cyberpunk game, as most of them are X then Y. In my vision of cyberpunk, due to corrupting influences and varying traumatic stimuli, you have to take a more varied view of things. You can simply bolt on UA's Madness Meter system, but this really does feel bolted on, not as elegant as the general BRP subsystem. 

I have been toying with the idea that the UA categories are, for lack of a better term, saving throws. Each with its own %. The higher you are in that category, the more resistant you are to its influences, but at the cost of being more jaded, perhaps reaching sociopathic levels (willingness to resort to violence at the drop of a pin, living the life of a hermit, etc.). My problem is in implementing the "failed" notches. 

On the other hand, perhaps cyberware simply modifies a SAN roll when a certain type of stimulus arises.

SDLeary

[colinabrett]

It's interesting to read the discussions of "what constitutes cyberpunk" and "metal versus meat". I don't think I'm well-enough read to contribute to those discussions, so I'll just add my draft notes on the subject. The cyberware.txt file includes: Techno Allegiance; thoughts on Cyberpsychosis (I like @SDLeary's idea of "living the life of a hermit" as a temporary insanity); a list of devices from various sources; skill chips; and an example character.

A lot of this is pure guesswork and has not been tested in a real game. I'd appreciate any feedback.

Regards,

Colin

cyberware.txt

[g33k]

16 hours ago, Ganaud said:

Fair point that it moves away from Cyberpunk, though I think it's because we as a culture are moving away from Cyberpunk. So it's that tension between creating a classic Cyberpunk feel and making it also feel fresh and current.

I think you've rather nailed it, here.  Like the 1940's-50's "pulp adventure" era, the 80's (plus a few years on either side) era of "Cyberpunk" is kind of... historical, in some ways (although when you actually look around, it's actually frighteningly-close to our "real life" these days!) .   But as a collection of aesthetics/tropes/memes for fictional world-building (whether movies, written stories, or RPGs) it feels just a bit old-fashioned.  It's just that "Pulp" is sufficiently "retro" to be fashionable again...

 

16 hours ago, Ganaud said:

... I also feel like Cyberpunk can be viewed as baby transhumanism, especially when you link your consciousness to the net (less the physical side, having a chrome arm, and all that). In designing a game I try to cater to anything gamers might want.

Another bullseye, imho!  I think a lot of folks in sci-fi see Cyberpunk as a stepping-stone on the path to Transhumanism.

But although I used to "...try to cater to anything gamers might want," I have largely abandoned that approach:  my experience is that it's too vague and muddied.  A tightly-cohesive game-world with a clear focus -- and some stuff being "kinda-sorta almost, but NO" -- is entirely-acceptable to almost all gamers, and most actually PREFER running in the crisp and vivid world, more than the muddied neither-this-not-that world.  That said, I'm always happy to work with my players to refine their original "not-quite-within-the-game-world" concept into a "works-within-the-game-world" version; this often produces really excellent results!

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by g33k

[CanTANK]

10 hours ago, SDLeary said:

I don't think cyberware makes you crazy, but I think certain cyberware can certainly ease you along that path.

'Warez that enhance you physical prowess (cue Simon in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...), that increase your strength, or ability to withstand physical punishment, that allow you to crush someones skull in your bare hand or to withstand the round of a high powered rifle fired a point blank range, are especially corrupting. They subtlety change your thought, create a conflict of Self. "Am I human anymore? If not, what have I become? Am I a monster? I seem more than human. Why should I conform to the will of puny humans?", etc. This mindset can lead to increasing Violence

Others, such as cerebral jacks, ocular implants, and raw data storage are pretty safe... when QA has done their job, and the bean counters have not substituted parts out of spec to save a few pennies. Jolts to your processing center can cause anomalies over time. Data bleed might blur your memories and the data you are moving. Paralysis and amnesia might induce a feeling of Helplessness.

Mechanically, I do not see the existing SAN system, or variations of it, as sufficient for a cyberpunk game, as most of them are X then Y. In my vision of cyberpunk, due to corrupting influences and varying traumatic stimuli, you have to take a more varied view of things. You can simply bolt on UA's Madness Meter system, but this really does feel bolted on, not as elegant as the general BRP subsystem. 

I have been toying with the idea that the UA categories are, for lack of a better term, saving throws. Each with its own %. The higher you are in that category, the more resistant you are to its influences, but at the cost of being more jaded, perhaps reaching sociopathic levels (willingness to resort to violence at the drop of a pin, living the life of a hermit, etc.). My problem is in implementing the "failed" notches. 

On the other hand, perhaps cyberware simply modifies a SAN roll when a certain type of stimulus ariseLeary

Agreed on most of this. Can I ask another question? We all needed CP2020 to lead the way with the Humanity mechanic to get this idea of Cyberpsychosis ingrained. Can this system now not simply be roleplayed? Ever carried a concealed pistol into a bar? I have not, partly because I worry what it would do to me -- the power to kill another person -- would it make me feel more than human? Most likely. So does it need a system if the Keeper pays attention to it and narrates the harmful side effects of this technology?

By the way, a cortical link could be hugely dehumanizing. Ever gotten mad at a loved one for spacing out on their smartphone while you're talking to them? This smartphone is in their head and you can't tell they're looking at it. And they would have to use tremendous willpower to NOT look at it in almost all situations, especially if it had tools to monitor body temperature, breathing rate, they could be analysizing you while you try to talk to them. Just an example. But suddenly, this sounds like something that adds fun and depth to the game, while a tit-for-tat subsystem just adds crunch that too my mind is not really roleplay-ey. I mean, aside from tallying humanity loss, how many GMs actually delved into the roleplaying aspect of Humanity Loss? 

This is an argument for argument's sake against having a subsystem, I guess. Let the PCs get what they want, then inflict the harsh realities on them in RP. (On the combat balance side, you certainly won't have any problems coming up with tough enough enemies. )

[g33k]

12 hours ago, Questbird said:

Cyberpunk and transhumanism are quite different. In Cyberpunk the value of human life is zero; the machines become the heroes ...

Not quite... it's that most of the "powers that be" (megacorps, etc) place no value on individual/average humans (please note the difference from them ACTUALLY having no value! ), although they have value in the aggregate, as various productivity-pools & revenue-streams.

Much of the tension in the stories is the hero(es) trying to strike a blow that DOES matter, that proves they CAN make a difference (and thus DO have value).

And the machines?  They aren't really the "heroes," it's just "fighting fire with fire:"  the heroes hope THEIR smart-tech is sufficient (together with their heroic stand) to overcome the tech they are fighting.

 

 

[g33k]

8 minutes ago, Ganaud said:

This is an argument for argument's sake against having a subsystem, I guess. Let the PCs get what they want, then inflict the harsh realities on them in RP. (On the combat balance side, you certainly won't have any problems coming up with tough enough enemies. )

If this works at your table, go for it!  I wish it (reliably) worked at mine; particularly at FLGS/event pick-up games, I see problems.

In practice, I find that a mechanical subsystem is REALLY useful:  ab initio it reminds me that there's an actual there there, something to pay attention to; secundus, a score or rating, some mechanical descriptor of the kind of problem and severity thereof means it's one less piece of the game-world that *I* have to track inside my head; part (c) is that many players are tempted to downplay their PC's downsides, and players who DON'T do that often get annoyed thereby, so MoreGamerFun suggests that externalized rules with objective "fairness" is an asset.  YMMobvouslyV !

[CanTANK]

It's just a rhetorical argument really. I use the system I outlined above, from River of Heaven, which limits Bioware and Nanoware (and Cyberware) augmentations by BioEnergy Points (POWx3). For combat balance in con and FLGS games, the RoH BE point system works elegantly and isn't fiddly. You rightly point out that there  is no dehumanizing mechanic. This I would roleplay, based on the PCs tech and how they acted. If a Medic used all his implants to save poor people from dying, I wouldn't necessarily hit him with a lot of RP about how dehumanized he is.

[CanTANK]

33 minutes ago, g33k said:

But although I used to "...try to cater to anything gamers might want," I have largely abandoned that approach:  my experience is that it's too vague and muddied.  A tightly-cohesive game-world with a clear focus -- and some stuff being "kinda-sorta almost, but NO" -- is entirely-acceptable to almost all gamers, and most actually PREFER running in the crisp and vivid world, more than the muddied neither-this-not-that world.  That said, I'm always happy to work with my players to refine their original "not-quite-within-the-game-world" concept into a "works-within-the-game-world" version; this often produces really excellent results!

 

I think I agree with you here. That's why I like the RoH system. It's really well-implemented. It just lacks hacking rules (which I copped from Infinity) and sufficient Cyberware gear for a CP game (which I copped from the excellent Atomik Cybertek) players love books filled with Cyberware to buy. Can I post a link to my rules? They contain IP from River of Heaven and Infinity the Game.  

[SDLeary]

4 hours ago, Ganaud said:

Agreed on most of this. Can I ask another question? We all needed CP2020 to lead the way with the Humanity mechanic to get this idea of Cyberpsychosis ingrained. Can this system now not simply be roleplayed? Ever carried a concealed pistol into a bar? I have not, partly because I worry what it would do to me -- the power to kill another person -- would it make me feel more than human? Most likely. So does it need a system if the Keeper pays attention to it and narrates the harmful side effects of this technology?

No, I have not. But there are numerous stories of people who have shot someone where that was totally out of character for them. But even with this, there is a difference. A gun in the above example is not part of you. You are not living with it. That replacement arm is part of you, the extra strength is part of you. Sometimes you forget about the extra strength, and do something you really really wish you hadn't. 

4 hours ago, Ganaud said:

By the way, a cortical link could be hugely dehumanizing. Ever gotten mad at a loved one for spacing out on their smartphone while you're talking to them? This smartphone is in their head and you can't tell they're looking at it. And they would have to use tremendous willpower to NOT look at it in almost all situations, especially if it had tools to monitor body temperature, breathing rate, they could be analysizing you while you try to talk to them. Just an example. But suddenly, this sounds like something that adds fun and depth to the game, while a tit-for-tat subsystem just adds crunch that too my mind is not really roleplay-ey. I mean, aside from tallying humanity loss, how many GMs actually delved into the roleplaying aspect of Humanity Loss? 

I don't see a link as dehumanizing, but I can see it as extremely addicting. Plug in, and suddenly you are living in a different world, with full senses!  It would be very easy to lose yourself in this new world. Much worse than a smartphone.

The effects can be role-played, but you have to have something in-system to trigger the situation. While players can role-play situations well, many will not voluntarily put their character into such a situation without a trigger. 

SDLeary

[Questbird]

9 hours ago, Ganaud said:

It's just a rhetorical argument really. I use the system I outlined above, from River of Heaven, which limits Bioware and Nanoware (and Cyberware) augmentations by BioEnergy Points (POWx3). For combat balance in con and FLGS games, the RoH BE point system works elegantly and isn't fiddly. You rightly point out that there  is no dehumanizing mechanic. This I would roleplay, based on the PCs tech and how they acted. If a Medic used all his implants to save poor people from dying, I wouldn't necessarily hit him with a lot of RP about how dehumanized he is.

In Call of Cthulhu, the SAN mechanic is a bit like hit points; once it reaches zero you're out of the game even if your investigator is still breathing. This means players pay attention to SAN decline and also stay generally on the 'good' side of the Cthulhu Mythos (no matter how grey the morality of the particular investigator) by avoiding overexposure to occult books, spells etc, which lead to the 'dark side'. You don't really have to roleplay a descent into madness; the system kind of helps out there.

If you try to translate that mechanic directly to cyberpunk it doesn't really work -- there's no Point of No Return for cyberware, although the tension between meat and machine is always there. Similarly most people probably don't want to roleplay a descent into inhumanity. However I think it is useful to have some kind of mechanic to regulate the players' meat:machine ratio. The BioEnergy idea seems sound.

As for dehumanizing influences in cyberpunk -- it's not just cyberware, it's also selling out to the megacorps, treating humans like insects, addiction to various online or offline substances etc.

[colinabrett]

15 hours ago, Questbird said:

As for dehumanizing influences in cyberpunk -- it's not just cyberware, it's also selling out to the megacorps, treating humans like insects, addiction to various online or offline substances etc.

And addiction to cybernetic augmentation. A character can have an arm fitted and think "that looks cool but I need something to balance it out on the other side". (I've known people do something similar with tattoos.) 

[colinabrett]

Some fluff to go with the crunch I've posted up here recently. Attached is an overview of some of the corporations in the 21st Century and a description of how the world became the way it is ...

PLEASE NOTE: I have no pro- or anti-corporate or pro/anti government agenda in these notes (or, indeed, in real life). My only intent is to describe some interesting background for a campaign.

As ever, any feedback would be welcomed.

Colin

corporations.txt

[g33k]

2 hours ago, ColinBrett said:

PLEASE NOTE: I have no pro- or anti-corporate or pro/anti government agenda in these notes (or, indeed, in real life). My only intent is to describe some interesting background for a campaign.

The basic tropes of "cyberpunk" are inherently anti-corporation / anti-authoritarian -- the premise of the genre is "soul-less corporations run amok."

 

[Newt]

I know I'm a bit late to the party here, and its not d100 but rather a D6 system called WordPlay (which has been described as the bastard offspiring of HeroQuest/a simplified Burning Wheel and the WEG d6 system), but I publish a small but perfectly formed Cyberpunk game called Project Darklight

[CanTANK]

3 minutes ago, Newt said:

I know I'm a bit late to the party here, and its not d100 but rather a D6 system called WordPlay (which has been described as the bastard offspiring of HeroQuest/a simplified Burning Wheel and the WEG d6 system), but I publish a small but perfectly formed Cyberpunk game called Project Darklight

I looked at that game! Great cover. I didn't get it as I'm all about D100, but maybe it needs a look in!

[CanTANK]

On 9/21/2016 at 2:13 PM, g33k said:

The basic tropes of "cyberpunk" are inherently anti-corporation / anti-authoritarian -- the premise of the genre is "soul-less corporations run amok."

 

Yeah I think this is maybe more important than the Cyberpsychosis element (and certainly is today)

[Newt]

On 20/09/2016 at 3:50 PM, Ganaud said:

I think I agree with you here. That's why I like the RoH system. It's really well-implemented. It just lacks hacking rules (which I copped from Infinity) and sufficient Cyberware gear for a CP game (which I copped from the excellent Atomik Cybertek) players love books filled with Cyberware to buy. Can I post a link to my rules? They contain IP from River of Heaven and Infinity the Game.  

Being pedantic RoH does have a section on Computer Hacking on pages 161-162, but its a very dry opposed roll (players Computer skill vs system's Security Skill/Rating) affair and probably not the exciting buring neon in VR that you are looking for in a Cyberpunk game

[CanTANK]

13 minutes ago, Newt said:

Being pedantic RoH does have a section on Computer Hacking on pages 161-162, but its a very dry opposed roll (players Computer skill vs system's Security Skill/Rating) affair and probably not the exciting buring neon in VR that you are looking for in a Cyberpunk game

Yeah, I checked it out. I have wanted to port the Infinity the Game "combat hacking" rules over to BRP for an age. They're just the most fun and innovative in-combat hacking rules I've seen. (There are also some good ones in Tomorrow's War). The Infinity port turned out to be very easy to do. I then created a simple system for purely VR hacks that don't involve an insertion team, basing it on 1) virtual combats and 2) programs that work like CoC spells basically. 

[CanTANK]

This is the homebrew mix I came up with. I haven't added the Atomik CyberTek gear in yet because there is so much of it. It contains a modded version of the RoH Augmentation rules, a port of the Infinity combat hacking, and of course new occupations and changes to skills that reflect Cyberpunk 2020-era tropes: BRP Cyberpunk 2077 for CoC 7e

Edited September 23, 2016 by Ganaud

[Newt]

All this is getting me interested in converting bits of Project Darklight over to River of Heaven (there is a Cyberpunk era in the setting)   It could either go in the upcoming River of Heaven Companion or if I get carried away become its own supplement

 

[CanTANK]

If you converted PDs bolt-on Cyberpunk-specific systems to D100/BRP I would definitely buy it! And would also write setting material or adventures for it. It's 2300 though right? Could the rules be used for near future? I think BRP could use near-future Cyberpunk rules. What I mean is, RoH is great, and even though you can play in various time periods, according to the rules systems, the tech has become very streamlined, integrated and advanced with the passage of centuries. I think for a setting in the next hundred years there should be maybe less elegant, less integrated options available. I specifically think that players want 'catalogs' to flip through that are full of toys with which to augment their characters. Not sure if I communicated what I mean. Tech today is a hodgepodge of different manufacturers and standards... in the far future the standards have all been settled upon and the tech is magnificently integrated with itself and into the human body, starship systems, global/muti-world data systems, etc. I think Cyberpunk near future is fun when it is set in the messy period before that integration occurs.

[colinabrett]

I'm running out of ideas.

Attached is a timeline history of a cyberpunk future. It runs to 2046 "The Present" because, way back in 1997 I ran a CP2020 campaign set in 2027, thirty years into the future, so I thought I'd continue that tradition.

Colin

history.txt

[colinabrett]

I've just uploaded a PDF of my BRP/CP2020 rules to the Sci-Fi/Other downloads section. It's also hosted on my own website at CP 2020 . In the future, I will be converting my old CP2020 campaign to this ruleset - I needed a baseline to work from - and will upload any adventures to this site.

I hope this proves useful.

Regards,

Colin

[Gollum]

Wow! I just skimmed it but it sounds to be a very interesting work. Thank you very much!