Glorantha Sourcebook (13th Age)

[Steve]

21 hours ago, jongjom said:

Page 90 "reveling trolls" should be "revelling trolls"

 

"Reveling" is correct for US usage. "Revelling" is British English usage.

[g33k]

16 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

This is also why authors often are the worst reviewers of their own work, because they know what they intended to write, even if they didn't actually write what they intended, but when they read it, they often can't detect anything wrong. Word blindness becomes a factor.

When I'm editing my own writing (whether substantive, new-draft edits, or minor polishing, or mere proofreads for typos/thinkos) I have known for decades that I can't even do a half-assed job unless I can put the piece aside for a month -- at least! -- before the editing pass.

Having a computer to flag the stupidest errors only helps with the very stupidest stuff... 

[g33k]

18 hours ago, jongjom said:

Page 108  "attack the Carmanians., She led her army through" - delete the comma after the full stop

Page 109  the Kingdom of Karasal surrendered with it.,   - delete the comma after the full stop

I'll suggest searching for the strings  ".," (also:  ",." + ", ." + ", .") as this seems to be a repeating issue, and one all-too-easily-overlooked by the human eye...

[M Helsdon]

18 minutes ago, g33k said:

Having a computer to flag the stupidest errors only helps with the very stupidest stuff... 

One tool (though not always fully foolproof) which will catch other things is to create an index, as this will identify variations in spelling. It does, however, take a great deal of effort, and this document is not yet in a state where creating an index seed would be productive. I'd need a Word version to create the seed.

[M Helsdon]

6 hours ago, g33k said:

I'll suggest searching for the strings  ".," (also:  ",." + ", ." + ", .") as this seems to be a repeating issue, and one all-too-easily-overlooked by the human eye...

<space>. yields a number. One previously identified:

• Page 137: draconic indifference .
• Page 150: trade routes with Sartar .

,; yields two, previously reported:

• Page 68:  elf Fwalfa Oakheart,;
• Page 68: Speaking Wheel,; and

There are a number of scanning errors such as this one, previously reported:

• Page 18: the Iynx-spirit - should be - the lynx-spirit

Note that this isn't immediately obvious in some fonts. I've had a look for other common scanning errors where 1 replaces I or l or I are confused and found:

• Page 115: Parg llisi which looks almost fine until you change the font: Parg llisi. I believe this should be Parg Ilisi. This occurs four times on this page.

This sort of error is very hard to spot in a pdf, especially in the font used in the document. Have spent an hour looking for others but haven't found any as yet.

Another common scanning error is a confusion of 0 and O - haven't found any examples in this document as yet.

Edited December 1, 2016 by M Helsdon

[jongjom]

Page 112 "besides Moonson and three others who became famous. The other three were Great Sister, the Goddess’s Daughter, and Moonson’s Cousin." - a tad confused: I thought Great Sister was the Goddess’s Daughter. And how famous is Moonson’s Cousin - and who is it?

Following that: Page 103 "GREAT SISTER is the demigod daughter of " is the first mention of this entity. Maybe worthwhile adding some clarity missing in the document: "GREAT SISTER, Deneskerva is the demigod daughter of "

Page 113 "wherein he imprisoned the Crazed Tribe. This tribe of madmen was the survivors, and descendants," - earlier they were 'named' as the Mad Sultanate on page 107.

Page 113 "and the Red Goddess. This proved his undoing," - capital G oddess

 

[jongjom]

Page 114  "It was maintained by refugee priests from the cities of Yuthuppa who had taken refuge with the Char-un Kahn as a result of the Tripolis Wars." - pointless and annoying repetition?

Page 114 Southern Expansion and Moonburn - I had to go to the Guide to get the rest of the information there to help me understand what was actually was going on. It is too cut and paste without some of the background info to help out a bit.

Page 114 "Dara-ni, a previous subject state of Alkoth, provided refuge for the River People and Dara Happan refugees, and held a firm alliance with the elves of Rist, and maintained powerful allies among the barbarians of Sylila." a sentence that bludgeons ones brain.

Further south Dara-ni, a previous subject state of Alkoth, provided shelter for the river people and Dara Happan refugees. [full stop] They and held a firm alliance with the elves of Rist, and maintained powerful allies among the barbarians of Sylila within ." - background info and short sentences. Although this is copied from the Guide, the Guide only used "River People" once (as does this text), the rest of the time it used "river people"

Page 114 "In 1/44 (1291), the Emperor ordered a Moonburn begun against Rist, modeled on the earlier Char-in event." - info / clarity please

Edited December 3, 2016 by jongjom
clarification

[jongjom]

Page 115 "was to seize certain Door Stones to trade to the trolls of Yolp Mountains."  i) Door Stones in the Guide. ii) no dwarves in that troll stronghold!?  iii) Mountains to be more accurate? OR are you talking about "the dwarves of Jord Mountains"?

Page 115 "managed to kill him first through luck and, when" - I assume she only killed the Satrap once?

Page 115 "to throttle a visiting Etyries merchant named Erian Soor." again difficult to follow this whole section. As it is, it sounds like any old Lunar fighting another. Maybe to add clarity instead have: "to throttle a visiting Twice Blessed merchant named Erian Soor." I assume that is correct??? Please make my life as a reader easier.

Page 115 "Imperial protection of lives, properties(comma) and"

Page 115 "In 2/25 (1326) Bindle, aided by other Sweet Sea allies and the Char-un tribes, went to war" Aren't these Char-un tribes Lunar allies?? Maybe: "In 2/25 (1326) Bindle, aided by other Sweet Sea allies and the traitorous Char-un tribes, went to war" In which case then add: "In 2/30 (1331), the Char-un changed sides again and the Bindle army was defeated in two successive battles." I assume that is correct???

Page 115 "He finally drove off the Char-un and began a program of resettlement and rebuilding of the devastated West Reaches." - why did he drive off the Char-un? Had they not just changed sides a couple of paragraphs before, or have they changes sides yet again?? OR is it "He finally drove off the remaining Brindle contingent and began a program of resettlement and rebuilding of the devastated West Reaches." ??

[jongjom]

Page 116 "In 2/25 (1326) Sylila (now expanded now to include the old lands of Rist and Dara-ni)" - as in the Guide

Page 116 "She prepared the city's grounds herself, and its her calm beauty is apparent."  i) it is just one city?  ii) the calm beauty is of the city?

Page 116 "upon a hearse drawn by demons," - add this in the Guide, coz its cool

Page 116 "her husband and son[full stop] and At the far side mounted" - as in the Guide, and coz its betta

Page 116  "Longwise in a four-day battle of magic(comma) which" - as in the Guide

Page 116  "the changing waters by powerful runes." - as in the Guide

Page 116 "The army(delete comma) which followed and supported the Conquering Daughter(delete comma) crossed upon this" - as in the Guide

Page 117 In Vanch(comma)  her army defeated the barbarian" - as in the Guide

 

[jongjom]

Page 117 "The Battle of Quintus’ Vale was fought between the Opili and their allied horse nations,"    should be    "The Battle of Quintus’ Vale was fought against the Opili and their allied horse nations,"     in order to make sense?

Page 117 "They all lived in the region called the "red lands"" should be " They all lived in the region called the "Redlands" " -- capital R, and all one word - as in the Guide

Page 117  "In 3/20 (1375), the Great Army of Sheng Seleris moved" - for clarity, as was described as such in the Guide

Page 120 "Sheng sacked their city of Jords Eye mistakenly believing the Emperor to be" should be: "Sheng sacked the dwarf city of Jord's Eye mistakenly believing the Emperor to be" And for a bonus point the AAA map has the wrong type of apostrophe on Jord's Eye

[M Helsdon]

Attended Dragonmeet today. Had a chat with Jeff: the comments here are being assessed and many are being incorporated into the document.

[jongjom]

Page 123 "The Sacred time before the dawn of the Fifth Wane saw the nobles of the Westlands, mostly members of the Jaranthir Household, arrive on the first day."

Page 123 Taking this to be accurate "Hon-eel had been born 18 years earlier in 4/36 (1445)" - this, her birth year, is in the Guide. Then:

"In 4/52 (1461) Hon-eel was 16 years old, and a dancer by trade." she would be 16 not 14

"In 5/2 (1466) aged 21, she went on her obligatory journey to the Moon," she would be 21 not 19

Page 123 "In 5/7 (1471), aged 26,"   etc.

Page 123 "At that time, Vinval-noy envisioned the Dance of Three Reconstructions." -- some explanation here would help. No reference in the rest of the document or the Guide on any of this

 

Edited December 3, 2016 by jongjom

[jongjom]

2 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Attended Dragonmeet today. Had a chat with Jeff: the comments here are being assessed and many are being incorporated into the document.

Thanks. I emailed Jeff but got no reply. Fair enough given his tad busy schedule!

Hope you had fun and got the inside info on what's going on.

[M Helsdon]

44 minutes ago, jongjom said:

Hope you had fun and got the inside info on what's going on.

Attended a talk on CoC which was very informative. There were preview copies of the Glorantha Sourcebook and the new RuneQuest on the table, in print books and a suitcase of hoary treasures (convention booklets, a few Wyrms Footnotes, Wyrms Footprints and old boxed sets and other things). Chaosium are very busy, and there are many interesting things lined up in the future.

A few of the things we are reporting are intentional features, not bugs.

However, I don't feel I can define what those are as my list isn't definitive, and I wouldn't wish to block a comment which may be valid. A comment is easy to reject, but if it isn't made it can't be assessed, and some comments that may seem to belong to the intentional class, might not... I wouldn't want to second guess the author. So I believe we should proceed as we are - though I may not make any comments for a day or two due to a lack of free time.

Edited December 3, 2016 by M Helsdon

[jongjom]

Page 124 "Godquest, and travelled to the Green Age. There" if using American spelling: "Godquest, and traveled to the Green Age. There" So sez the Guide and: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/spelling/british-and-spelling

Page 124 "Today, she is worshiped as the Lunar Earth and Mother of Corn." should not this be: Today, she is worshiped as the Lunar Earth and Mother of Maize." - page 316 & 341 Guide

Page 124 "As was usual with Hon-eel she traveled with only six companions, one of whom was a man."

-- Please do a Find "travelled" and replace with "traveled"  - a total of 9 of these in the document (including the two above)

Page 124 "the stepmother of the Sun, a goddess jealous of" in the Guide it's: "the step-mother of the Sun, a goddess jealous of"

Page 125 "herself worthy to the step-mother of the Sun. She"

Page 125 "He was blond and pale-eyed, radiant as the yellow sunlight of the day sky. He said, “I am Daylight.”" However on the same page, and in the Guide page 315,the names were "Twilight and Nightlight", so maybe: "He was blond and pale-eyed, radiant as the yellow sunlight of the day sky. He said, “I am Twilight.”"

Page 125 "Prince Phoronestes, was well-guarded by Lunar viceroys and eventually ascended to his throne at age 16."    'ascended to his throne' means to become king (or queen), however the Guide has "He was crowned in 1491," page 176 -- which means he was placed on the throne, and crowned when he was born (on Page 226 it says he was 26 at the end of the wane: 1517)

Edited December 3, 2016 by jongjom
Correcting comments

[metcalph]

26 minutes ago, jongjom said:

Page 125 "Prince Phornostes, was well-guarded by Lunar viceroys and eventually ascended to his throne at age 16."    'ascended to his throne' means to become king (or queen), however the Guide has "He was crowned in 1491," page 176 -- which means he was placed on the throne, and crowned when he was 1 years old

Ascension is the technical term for a child sovereign becoming of age (and the dissolution of the regency).

[jongjom]

Page 126 "called the Red Hair Tribe by the nomads." - add 'Hair', as per page 317 of the Guide

Page 128 "was popular in the late First Wane among the Lunar"  OR    "was popular from the late First Wane among the Lunar"  -- the darts competition only started in 1/49, if the following sentences hold true

Page 130 "substituted corn women for humans in the Hon-eel planting rites,"       maybe       "substituted maize women for humans in the Hon-eel planting rites,"

Edited December 3, 2016 by jongjom
addition

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, jongjom said:

"At that time, Vinval-noy envisioned the Dance of Three Reconstructions." -- some explanation here would help. No reference in the rest of the document or the Guide on any of this

There never was any further explanation.  I don't know that there needs to be - it's just one of those little mysteries that make Glorantha interesting.

[M Helsdon]

3 hours ago, jongjom said:

"At that time, Vinval-noy envisioned the Dance of Three Reconstructions." -- some explanation here would help. No reference in the rest of the document or the Guide on any of this

This would be an example of an intentional omission. In real myths there are often things we can't define; one example in the Epic of Gilgamesh is the reference to Urshanabi's stone things - we have no idea what this refers to: there are various suggestions by modern scholars, but we don't know for certain and probably never will. As game background it acts as a possible hook that someone may expand upon one day.

 

[jongjom]

Page 136   "with crowding, confusion(comma) and fear. This began the"

Page 137  "peoples outside the council. Inside dissension and outside enemies forced"   maybe  "peoples outside the council. Internal dissension and external enemies forced" 

Page 138  "and the New Animals’s Boundary"  maybe  "and the New Animals’ Boundary" 

Page 138   "(long lost, but not forgotten), both of which are made of stone plinths"   'both'? There is a list of three things here

Page 138  "Most surviving elves fled back to the Stinking Country or the Holy."   maybe   "Most surviving elves fled back to the Stinking Forest or the Holy." 

[GtG error? page 142  1240 Dark trolls conquer Pavis. should be 1237 Dark trolls conquer Pavis]

 

[jongjom]

Page 140  "Tribe warriors at the Battle of Alavan Argary in"   should be    "Tribe warriors at the Battle of Alavan Argay in" 

Page 141  "This Swordman returned in a cult of weapons masters in the time of the Feathered Horse Queen." - does this make sense? A Humakti returning? There is mysterious but this is nonsensical? Maybe it means: "This Swordman returned with a cult of weapons masters in the time of the Feathered Horse Queen." ??

Page 141   "When Belintar’s mortal body expires, the next day select individuals, chosen"   reads oddly, maybe instead:  "The day after Belintar’s mortal body expires select individuals chosen"

Page 143  "Even within a single tribe there was challenge and battle, and sometimes younger sons broke away from the greater tribe, beginning a separate clan of their own, as the Lismelder tribe did when it deserted the Malani."   This is an exact Copy and Paste of the same text on the previous page. 

Page 143  "defeated the nomads at the Battle of Quintus Vale"  should be "defeated the nomads at the Battle of Quintus’ Vale" - missing apostrophe

Page 144  "Derik Pol-joni to pursue his vengeance and hatred"  to match up with the Guide & Pavis:GtA  it should be:  "Derik Poljoni to pursue his vengeance and hatred"

Page 145   "Derik of Pol-Joni to ride for him in a race." maybe clearer to say "Derik of the Pol-Joni to ride for him in a race." OR  "Derik Poljoni to ride for him in a race."

Page 145   "(and often paired with the High Priestess at the Shaker Temple)." should be "(and often paired with the High Priestess at the Shaker's Temple)."

Page 146  "born around 1430 and emerged"  later on she has a definite age at death, and year that she died.

Page 147  "wandering minstrel show with actors, jugglers(comma) and acrobats."

Page 147 "The mockeries and sarcasms of the Puppeteer’s jongleurs often pain the vulnerable or over-dignified and so they are sometimes held in disrepute." vulnerable or venerable? paining the vulnerable isn't in keeping with the rest of their description

Page 149   "Palashee Longaxe and the Shaker Temple to drive"   should be  "Palashee Longaxe and the Shaker's Temple to drive"

Page 149  "slain. Their scalps still adorn the Shaker Temple."   should be  "slain. Their scalps still adorn the Shaker's Temple." 

Page 149 "trickery won, and Long Axe was slain."   should be   "trickery won, and Longaxe was slain."  

Page 149  "When enemy kings resisted,........he is often called King-slayer."  -- this paragraph changes between k and K for the kings of the different lands

Page 149  "and he built a new section of Furthest and he securely fortified the walls."

Page 150  "where they were protected by the magic of the Shaker Temple."   should be "where they were protected by the magic of the Shaker's Temple."

 

 

[M Helsdon]

Page 12: The Prime Mover originates the Western humanist universe – might be - The Prime Mover originates in the Western humanist universe

Page 12: and/or – suggest this form detracts from the style of the essay. Suggest instead use – and [General comment]

Page 12: there is variation in giving Void, Silence, Prime Mover, Well capital letters. Suggest all instances should have a capital letter.

Page 12: without consent from gods – suggest - without consent from the gods

Page 13: Empire of Wyrms Friends – should be - Empire of the Wyrms Friends [General Comment: 4 instances in the document]

Page 13: Empty void – might be – Empty Void

Page 13: When meditations were complete – might be - When its meditations were complete

Page 14: The True Dragons of Dragon Pass are: - the list is incomplete as the Guide refers to the Dragon of Jarn, preceding the Dragonrise. The number of known dragons in Dragon Pass should be five?

Page 15: The Twins – this term might be used in the preceding Numerological Succession text box as it has no precedent.

Page 15: Ratslaff – should be – Ratslaf

Page 15: cults she was called – suggest present tense - cults she is called

Page 16: Within the New Age called Time, the rulers of the old cosmos have no place – except Uleria? Might be worth an annotation?

Page 17: Ratslaff – should be – Ratslaf

Page 17: kept secret by the Dark Trolls – possibly by Mistress Race Trolls?

Page 79: God War – should be – Gods War [1 instance of the former, 43 of the latter]

Page 82: truestone – might be - Truestone

Page 83: Ratslaff – should be - Ratslaf

Edited December 4, 2016 by M Helsdon

[jongjom]

Page 23  "TY KORA TEK is also the Goddess of Dark in the Earth, mentioned elsewhere this issue as one of the Six Earths."  'elsewhere this issue' I guess this was from the WF magazine. Instead maybe have "TY KORA TEK is also the Goddess of Dark in the Earth, mentioned later on as one of the Six Earths."

Page 24  "Yelm was forced to return to his path in the sky in 375 ST." - as per the Guide (NB the other two errors for the Sunstop date have been already highlighted)

Page 24   "THE BLUE MOON is a daughter of"      Possibly consider:    "ANNILLA, the Blue Moon, is a daughter of"

Page 24 "She did, and these were the first trolls, called the Mistress Race Trolls." -- forex 'Dark Trolls' are called 'Dark Trolls', and not just 'Dark', but sometimes Uzuz are just Mistress Race?

 

Edited December 4, 2016 by jongjom
clarification

[jongjom]

Page 26 "Among them are the old Brown Sea (now broken into the Sea of Worms and Jorkar’s Sea), Neleom, the White or Ice Sea, and some others".  Should be: "Among them are the old Brown Sea (now broken into the Kerenth, Swermela (Sea of Worms)(comma) and Jorkar’s Sea), Neliomi, Keniryan Sea (White Sea), and some others".

Notes: i) Kerenth Sea is also called The Brown Sea in the Guide, so should be here? . ii) Sea of Worms is called Swermela Sea in the Guide iii) no mention of the Ice Sea in the Guide or the rest of this document  iv) Neleom is a typo (?) and should be Neliomi as per the Guide

Page 27  "of the Neleom Sea and its many rivers". "of the Neliomi Sea and its many rivers."

Page 27 "THE WAERTAGI MERTRIBE is that clan which began in the Neliomi Sea and once extended into the Keniryan Sea (White Sea), "

Page 28 "Another, the eldest clan who lived in the deepest part of Neliomi, were the masters of the animals of the sea, and could"

Page 28 "Lorian is called Sky River Titan in some manuscripts."   should be  "Lorian is called Skyriver Titan in some manuscripts." - noted already is the same error on page 101

Page 29 "Celestial Court there occurred a disaster wherein the Cosmic Mountain," if capitals for Cosmic Mountain then also change on page 18 & page 62

Page 29 "especially Triolina, Manthi and Natea, Daliath, Framanthe(comma) and Magasta."

Edited December 4, 2016 by jongjom
clarification

[metcalph]

3 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

 

Page 14: The True Dragons of Dragon Pass are: - the list is incomplete as the Guide refers to the Dragon of Jarn, preceding the Dragonrise. The number of known dragons in Dragon Pass should be five?

 

My understanding is that the Dragon of Jarn is the Brown Dragon.