Riding Animals

[M Helsdon]

As I understand it, there are several species of riding animals present in central Genertela, but some are only ridden by particular tribes, whilst others, such as sables and horses are common riding animals. I am assuming that whilst a Sartarite might be able to buy a rhino, only a Praxian could train it and ride it as a war mount successfully...

 

Some mounts can be trained to carry their owner into a conflict, but do not fight themselves. Cavalry mounts are trained to stay calm in battle and carry their rider where they want to go amidst the noise and hubbub of a battle. They are not trained to fight in battle and because of this, they cost less to train.

 

War mounts are trained to respond absolutely to the demands of the rider and ignore outside influences. Some can be trained to enter a battle and fight for their rider, using their natural weapons: kicking, trampling, biting, goring. This requires expensive training so that the mount can coordinate its attacks with its rider.

 

The Praxians share a powerful relationship between rider and mount, and a member of a Praxian tribe can ride the herd beast of his tribe with ease, in peace and war, for they ride almost before they can walk. They will only ride another animal if they have no choice (this is a matter of great shame) but would never touch a horse, not even to eat it.

 

Riding Animal	Maximum Training	Restrictions
Augner	War	Extinct, save on the Red Moon.
Bison	War	Surly and intractable, unsuitable for any but the Praxian Bison Tribe.
Bolo Lizard	War	Ridden only by Praxian pygmies.
Demi-Bird	War	Ridden only by Dragonewts.
Demon Horse	War	Black Horse Troop only.
High Llama	War
Horse	War
Impala	Cavalry	Ridden only by Praxian pygmies.
Ostrich	Cavalry	Ridden only by Praxian pygmies.
Rhino	War	Vicious and unpredictable, unsuitable for any but the Praxian Rhinoceros Tribe.
Sable	War
Tusker	War	Ridden only by Tusk Riders.
Unicorn	War	Ridden only by female virgins.
Zebra	War

[David Scott]

Lots of good stuff here to discuss Martin. I'll have to this in bits.

I think it's best to start with the Covenant. The Covenant is at its basis a food rationing system. There's not enough in the Wastelands to go round, so one of an interdependent pair cannot eat the vegetation. Those under the covenant are interdependent due to their ancestry in the God Time. In order that they can both survive in the Wastes, changes to the way they live are part of the Covenant. In order that they be protected, herd beasts can live in much closer proximity to each other than would be expected with no problems - it's for their own good. Also Gloranthan herd beasts are not the same as Earth ones. We base some of their looks and behaviour on them, but they aren't the same. Here's the current incomplete list:

Bison are visually and behaviorally based on the North American Bison (Bison bison bison).

Herd-men are based on modern humans (Homo sapiens sapiens). They are physically identical, with identical growth patterns, but with only animal intelligence. Their behavior can be roughly based on those of living primates of the Pongidae family; orang-utans, bonobos, chimpanzees, and gorillas.

High Llamas are based on an extinct ancestor of the camel, Aepycamelus giraffinus, formerly called Alticamelus. This very tall prehistoric camel lived from the middle through late Miocene period. Visually it is based on museum skeletons and reconstructions, and behaviorally on Bactrian camels (Camelus bactrianus). High llamas are not humped like earth camels.

Impala are visually and behaviourally based on the Impala (Aepyceros melampus).

Sables are visually on the Giant Sable Antelope (Hippotragus niger variani) and behaviourally on the on Sable Antelope. 

Ostriches are visually and behaviorally based on the North African Ostrich (Struthio camelus camelus).

Rhinoceroses are visually and behaviorally based on the Southern White Rhinoceros (Ceratotherium simum simum).

Unicorns are visually based on the Camargue horses of southern France. But with the usual unicorn horn.

Pol-Joni horses are a Gloranthan horse type called the Sered.

Those born under the Covenant don't have the usual behaviour (above).

So a rhino from the Wastes, could be ridden and trained by a Sartarite.

 

[David Scott]

12 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

The Praxians share a powerful relationship between rider and mount, and a member of a Praxian tribe can ride the herd beast of his tribe with ease, in peace and war, for they ride almost before they can walk. They will only ride another animal if they have no choice (this is a matter of great shame) but would never touch a horse, not even to eat it.

Not quite. If you are a raider, raiding for food beasts, you need to have a good understanding of the beasts you are trying to capture. Therefore Praxians are experts on all herd beasts and can ride them. From HeroQuest Glorantha, Cult of Waha, Initiates, page 170:

Quote

They must know how to ride and fight, and be knowledgeable about all the tribal herds, not just their own beasts.

It's the Khans that are limited to only riding their tribal herd beasts. This extends to all other Khans as a social, not cult prohibition - Wind Khans, Storm Khans, Light Khans, etc. 

Horses I've discussed elsewhere. The horse prohibition fails completely when you realise that there are Pol-Joni Waha Khans riding horses. Of course the Pol-Joni don't eat their horses as they herd cattle.

[David Scott]

Demon Horses and Unicorns. These deserve a special mention as they are intelligent. The first Hero Wars game I ever played in was with Robin Laws demoing the new system. We played the Demon Horses, not the riders. The riders were followers. I'm unsure how to treat them as they are different and don't need training - perhaps it's their riders that do. Maybe Yelornans are are just the instruments of the Unicorns to allow them to return to the Wastes...

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Not quite. If you are a raider, raiding for food beasts, you need to have a good understanding of the beasts you are trying to capture. Therefore Praxians are experts on all herd beasts and can ride them. From HeroQuest Glorantha, Cult of Waha, Initiates, page 170:

Ah, right.

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

It's the Khans that are limited to only riding their tribal herd beasts. This extends to all other Khans as a social, not cult prohibition - Wind Khans, Storm Khans, Light Khans, etc. 

Interesting.

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Demon Horses and Unicorns. These deserve a special mention as they are intelligent. The first Hero Wars game I ever played in was with Robin Laws demoing the new system. We played the Demon Horses, not the riders. The riders were followers. I'm unsure how to treat them as they are different and don't need training - perhaps it's their riders that do. Maybe Yelornans are are just the instruments of the Unicorns to allow them to return to the Wastes...

Demon Horses control their riders, according to the Guide. The relationship of unicorn and rider seems more symbiotic.

Thank you for the information.

[M Helsdon]

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

Pol-Joni horses are a Gloranthan horse type called the Sered.

Anaxial's Rooster includes several horse breeds, but I am uncertain how canonical they are now.

[M Helsdon]

Several species of riding animals are present in central Genertela.

 

Some are only ridden by particular tribes, whilst others, such as sables and horses are common riding animals. A rhino or bison born under the Covenant can be ridden by anyone with sufficient riding skill (and bravery).

 

Some mounts can be trained to carry their owner into a conflict, but do not fight themselves. Cavalry mounts are trained to stay calm in battle and carry their rider where they want to go amidst the noise and hubbub of a battle. They are not trained to fight in battle and because of this, they cost less to train.

 

War mounts are trained to respond absolutely to the demands of the rider and ignore outside influences. Some can be trained to enter a battle and fight for their rider, using their natural weapons: kicking, trampling, biting, goring. This requires expensive training so that the mount can coordinate its attacks with its rider.

 

The Praxians share a powerful relationship between rider and mount, and a member of a Praxian tribe can ride any herd beast with ease, in peace and war, for they ride almost before they can walk. They will only ride another animal if they have no choice but the Animal Nomads would never touch a horse, not even to eat it.

 

Khans are limited to only riding their tribal herd beast. This includes all Khans as a social, not cult prohibition – so Wind Khans, Storm Khans, and Light Khans are all restricted to their tribal animal. Pol-Joni Waha Khans ride horses, even though they are not within the Covenant, but do not eat their horses as they herd cattle.

 

Riding Animal	Maximum Training	Restrictions
Augner	War	Extinct, save on the Red Moon.
Bison	War	Surly and intractable.
Bolo Lizard	War	Ridden only by Praxian pygmies.
Demi-Bird	War	Ridden only by Dragonewts.
Demon Horse	War	Black Horse Troop only. The mounts control the riders.
High Llama	War
Horse	War
Impala	Cavalry	Ridden only by Praxian pygmies.
Mule	Riding
Ostrich	Cavalry	Ridden only by Praxian pygmies.
Rhino	War	Vicious and unpredictable.
Sable	War
Tusker	War	Ridden only by Tusk Riders.
Unicorn	War	Ridden only by female virgins.
Zebra	War

 

Demon Horses and Unicorns (and other riding animals awakened or inhabited by a spirit) are intelligent. However, the Demon Horses command and control their riders, whilst Unicorns and others tend to have a symbiotic relationship with their rider.

Edited August 10, 2016 by M Helsdon

[jajagappa]

22 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Anaxial's Rooster includes several horse breeds, but I am uncertain how canonical they are now.

I think at least the Galanini horses of Ralios and the breed from Jillaro (don't have the name reference at hand) remain canon.  I don't know about the others, but don't see why not.

[Jeff]

One thing worth mentioning - use of Praxian beasts as mounts by non-Praxians is fairly common in Dragon Pass.

[M Helsdon]

To bring a contentious topic over from the Google forum:

Cavalry dates back to the Dawn, but only became an effective and often decisive military force when suitable saddles were made.

 

The earliest saddles were simple fringed cloths or pads held on with a girth or surcingle that included breast straps and cruppers. Later a rudimentary frame, with two parallel leather cushions, a girth attached to them, a pommel and cantle was developed. The solid saddle tree raises the rider above the horse’s back, and distributed their weight on either side of the mount’s spine.

 

The Western saddle has a high cantle and pommels which act as high guard clamps that curve across the top of the rider’s thighs and fasten to the saddle, enabling the rider to stay properly seated, especially during violent combat. It consists of a wooden tree supporting more weight from a rider with armor and weapons, padded with wool or horsehair and covered in leather or cloth.

 

Praxian saddles (especially those of bison and high llama riders) also feature a raised cantle and pommels to hold the rider firmly in the seat.

 

Stirrups are not widely known or used. The Pentans have adopted them as they permit a horse archer to ‘stand’ when shooting, absorbing the motion of the horse and enhancing the accuracy of the archer. In response, some Lunar cavalry units have also adopted their use.

 

[I am assuming that the older material relating to stirrups coming from the West relatively early is no longer canonical, and that the illustrations in AH's Glorantha boxed set are similarly non-canonical. Glancing through the Guide finds very few examples of stirrups (Dragonewts, and Hwarin Dalthippa), which tends to support the Bronze Age/Early Iron Age 'feel'.]

 

[Roko Joko]

If you're trying to list them all

. giant insects for trolls and wasp riders

. probably some hsunchen like reindeer, maybe yaks, deer, snow tigers

. kralorelan dragon mounts

. dinosaurs occasionally and for giants in the slon outback

. lopers

. rinliddi bird mounts

. occasional griffins / hippogriffs / pegasi

. caladraland hippos a la the scoriaguard rumbleriders, and other stewart stanfield inventions, to taste

 

Edited August 10, 2016 by Roko Joko

[M Helsdon]

41 minutes ago, Roko Joko said:

If you're trying to list them all

Just the major ones in central Genertela, thanks. Flying creatures are in another list.

41 minutes ago, Roko Joko said:

. rinliddi bird mounts

I don't believe these are canonical? Augners are now found only on the Red Moon.

Edited August 10, 2016 by M Helsdon

[jajagappa]

9 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Augners are now found only on the Red Moon.

Assuming the Esrolia book is canon, then they have a broader range.

p.6 "Commoners in Esrolia walk. To ride upon a horse is a sign of wealth and prestige. Ownership of these is not restricted, and anyone can ride. Some other beasts are used as steeds, but very rare so that the appearance of the bird-riding Augner clan [Riding upon their large, bipedal augners] or the Inep clan [Riding their unique Long-legged Cows] always creates a sensation."

Granted that the Guide suggests that they are 'resurrected' and exist in Birdland on the Red Moon, but probably need Jeff to add a definitive comment.

[M Helsdon]

24 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Assuming the Esrolia book is canon, then they have a broader range.

I suspect they are extinct, save on the Red Moon. But...

[I was aware of the reference, but decided that as it wasn't supported by any recent publication it was probably dead. The Esrolia book isn't in this list: http://www.glorantha.com/canon-and-ygwvtheres-been-a-few-questions-about-what-is-canon-are-these-maps-going-to-get-gregged/ ]

Edited August 10, 2016 by M Helsdon

[Tindalos]

On 10/08/2016 at 10:24 AM, David Scott said:

Unicorns are visually based on the Camargue horses of southern France. But with the usual unicorn horn

So Gloranthan Unicorns are horned horses, and not the actual legendary beast?

 

16 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

 

[I am assuming that the older material relating to stirrups coming from the West relatively early is no longer canonical, and that the illustrations in AH's Glorantha boxed set are similarly non-canonical. Glancing through the Guide finds very few examples of stirrups (Dragonewts, and Hwarin Dalthippa), which tends to support the Bronze Age/Early Iron Age 'feel'.]

 

IMG, what the Carmanians introduced were stirrups made of metal (magic gained from the dwarves, who still frown on anyone using metal stirrups)

The Praxians and Pentans use leather and sinew stirrups on their mounts, which are often the home of sure-footed stirrups, holding the rider in place as if they were standing on flat ground. Kastok's great work was to combine the two forms of stirrups, mixing spirit and sorcery into something new. It worked brilliantly, up until the point where it failed.

[M Helsdon]

3 minutes ago, Tindalos said:

So Gloranthan Unicorns are horned horses, and not the actual legendary beast?

Gloranthan unicorns are magical beasts - the longest write-up being in the old RuneQuest Companion.

[Tindalos]

7 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Gloranthan unicorns are magical beasts - the longest write-up being in the old RuneQuest Companion.

Yes, but they're like Goldeneyes, magical horses (with horns).

The companion presented them as the traditional legendary unicorn. But looking at the more recent depictions I could find (Pavis: GTA p52, Guide Vol 1 pg320, HeroQuest Glorantha pg209) they're all shown as horned horses. Single hooves, skirts rather than leonine tails; and the only beard was on Ralzakark (who I doubt counts).

I think the previous depictions and write ups (such as the one in the companion) are no longer canon.

[M Helsdon]

23 minutes ago, Tindalos said:

I think the previous depictions and write ups (such as the one in the companion) are no longer canon.

Based on other posts on this forum, I'd disagree...

Artistic representations will always vary, but Gloranthan unicorns aren't just horses with horns on their foreheads, but sentient magical beings.

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by M Helsdon

[TRose]

16 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

I suspect they are extinct, save on the Red Moon. But...

[I was aware of the reference, but decided that as it wasn't supported by any recent publication it was probably dead. The Esrolia book isn't in this list: http://www.glorantha.com/canon-and-ygwvtheres-been-a-few-questions-about-what-is-canon-are-these-maps-going-to-get-gregged/ ]

 Well extinct does not mean the same thing in Glorantha as it does on Earth.. Unicorns where extinct in Prax until a heroquest to the Green age brought some back. perhaps  Augners are extinct , but there a minor Heroquest that allows  people to get one.

[David Scott]

5 hours ago, Tindalos said:

So Gloranthan Unicorns are horned horses, and not the actual legendary beast?

The unfinished list this comes from is to give newcomers a starting point to visualise roughly what the creature looks like and how they behave. As the actual legendary beast has not been seen in our world for a while, and given level of current unicorn mania in our world, I think it's useful to reference it to real world creatures. My plan is to give a simple description - horse-like, big horn, cloven footed, male, etc and then get an artist to provide us with the definitive Praxian version. White Camargue horses provide as good a real world starting point as any:

(sorry - no rainbows)

[M Helsdon]

3 hours ago, TRose said:

 perhaps  Augners are extinct , but there a minor Heroquest that allows  people to get one.

They don't seem to be extant, save on the Red Moon...

Edited August 11, 2016 by M Helsdon

[David Scott]

3 hours ago, TRose said:

Well extinct does not mean the same thing in Glorantha as it does on Earth.. Unicorns where extinct in Prax until a heroquest to the Green age brought some back. perhaps  Augners are extinct , but there a minor Heroquest that allows  people to get one.

To clarify, unicorns aren't extinct in Prax. There has always been the occasional group that has drifted across on Hidden Greens or are HeroQuesters from the Green Age. The ones that are brought back by HeroQuesting Yelornans only stay whilst their rider is alive, returning back to the Green Age when they die. They also don't breed.

In Earth terms I suppose they are extinct except if you have access to HeroQuest magics. Coming soon - DodoQuest!

[David Scott]

Augners are still around if The Glorious ReAscent is still true. It does imply they are a variety of Demi-Bird.

Quote

In modem times, only dragonewts ride avilry. Augners are rare outside of dragnet breeding grounds, but memories remain. To “see an augner” means to have bad luck. Being “bird food” contains a similar idea. The augners were exterminated by neighbors (and cultural relatives) of the early Jenarong dynasty after a long, dark war.

I'd say the Auger clan in Esrolia is rare (as it says) too. They clearly exist but are very rare, and so not worth worrying about. The ones on the moon are inaccessible to mortals, and I'd say resurrected on the otherworld of the Moon still means you are dead.

Perhaps the easiest way of looking at them is that they are the same species adapted for different rider shapes.

[Tindalos]

51 minutes ago, David Scott said:

The unfinished list this comes from is to give newcomers a starting point to visualise roughly what the creature looks like and how they behave. As the actual legendary beast has not been seen in our world for a while, and given level of current unicorn mania in our world, I think it's useful to reference it to real world creatures. My plan is to give a simple description - horse-like, big horn, cloven footed, male, etc and then get an artist to provide us with the definitive Praxian version. White Camargue horses provide as good a real world starting point as any:

I'm very glad to be wrong, I much prefer the classical chimerical unicorn over horned horses. It's just with the lack of them in recent publications, I was worried they'd gone away.

 

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

I'd say the Auger clan in Esrolia is rare (as it says) too. They clearly exist but are very rare, and so not worth worrying about. The ones on the moon are inaccessible to mortals, and I'd say resurrected on the otherworld of the Moon still means you are dead.

All very true. I'll keep with my earlier assessment. Thank you.

For the same reason I'm ignoring dinosaur mounts because they aren't something you'll find for sale at a market, and if they were to appear in an army, they are probably equivalent to a cavalry regiment. If horse units can be repelled by camels in the real world, the effect of a large dinosaur ought to be even more dramatic. Dinosaurs appear in the Dragon Pass boardgame (as individuals? herds?) but they aren't recorded anywhere yet as being of military use by either the Lunars or the Sartar Free Army.