RuneQuest...Where to start?

[Hound of Tindalos]

I've just recently gotten into BRP via CoC and I love it. Wish I would have gotten into this system long ago. I've been looking through past threads here and doing a little research elsewhere about RuneQuest but there is just so much out there it's a little overwhelming.

I am interested in introducing RQ to my group later so right now I'm on a fact finding mission and my first question is, just where in the hell does one start? What book would you recommend to a first time RQ user? What's the difference between RQ and MRQ? I've seen so much out there online that I'm not sure where to dig in at. Any advice would be appreciated.

Hound

[TRose]

Depends if you want 2nd or 3rd age. For 2nd age the Mongoose books Players guide to Glorantha and cult books are a good place to start. For 3rd age I would suggest Moon design Cult compendium and River of Cradles books are a good start.

[Hound of Tindalos]

What's the difference between 2nd and 3rd age?

[Newt]

Ok...this is a big one, so bear with me.

There are four editions of the game.

RQ1 and RQ2 are basically the same, RQ2 is RQ1 with errata, but RQ2 is more commonly available via Ebay. The rules are similiar to Call of Cthulhu, but with a different magic system and hit locations. In the main 100 page or so rule book there's a rough outline of Glorantha, the game's setting, mainly told by examples and by embedding the setting in the rules. If Glorantha tickles your fancy, RQ2 is the easiest to get into - you simply buy the Cults Compendium (which is a reprint of the old Cults of Prax and Cults of Terror supplements + some other bits) and one of the setting/adventure books - Pavis & The Big Rubble, Griffin Mountain or Borderlands. All these are reprints by Moon Designs of the original supplements that Chaosium printed back in RQ2's hayday back the early 80s. Not sure if all the Moon Design's books are currently in print, but enough were printed so they again turn up on ebay and you might still find copies in your local games store.

RQ3 updated the rules, adding Sorcery into the magic mix. Its a slightly more crunchy game and possibly provides a bit more scope that RQ2. Its out of print, but can be found in a couple of flavours via Ebay. Avalon Hill, then the game's publisher although Chaosium still wrote the game, put out a couple of box sets. Deluxe RQ3 is the complete game. The Adventurers and GMs boxes are cut down versions that I'd avoid since they are not complete. AH also did a book version of Deluxe. GamesWorkshop, who had the license to publish the game in the UK, did a series of 3 hardcovers -RuneQuest, Advanced RuneQuest and Monsters. Get all three and you've got the game. One of the major features of RQ3 was that it was more of a Generic system than RQ2, so Glorantha was split out of the rules (although you do get an Introduction to Glorantha in AH's Deluxe). If you are interested in Glorantha, get Glorantha: Cruicible to the HeroWars boxset, Gods of Glorantha boxset and the Rivers of Cradles setting/adventure (which is an update of the Pavis/Prax stuff of RQ2). For non-Gloranthan stuff Land of Ninja and Vikings are well worth checking out.

RQ4 or more commonly refered to as Mongoose RQ (or MRQ) is a reworking of the system, since Mongoose although given rights to the name couldn't directly copy the BRP system. Again Mongoose did a basic core book, followed by a Companion and a Monsters book and about a year later updated some of the rules and released a Deluxe version, which is the one to get. Glorantha wise you need Glorantha 2nd Age, followed by Cults 1&2 and the Players Guide. Dara Happa Stirs is an excellent setting/adventure book.

On the confusion front there was also an abortive attempt to do RQ4 by Chaosium, but this never made it into printed publication. If you know the right place to look there's a pdf version out there, but in IMHO its not a complete game.

MRQ is set in Glorantha's Second Age which is a time where two large empires - The GodLearner Empire and the Empire of the Wyrms Friends - are dominating the setting , both conducting their own grand magical experiments. The Godlearners are busy looting the beliefs and religions of other cultures for magical powers while the EWF are creating a human pyramid of conquered peoples and lands whose magical powers will feed into the creation of the Great Dragon. Both are doomed to failure, and the books start describing the setting when things are starting to go wrong.

Previous editions of RQ were set in the Third Age, which is about seven hundred years later. Known as the HeroWars its a time were individual heroes and heroines are fighting to impose their will upon Glorantha, which is at a time of crisis where reality is up for grabs. Most of the published material centers on the struggle between the civlised Lunar Empire and the barbarian Kingdom of Sartar.

Hope that helps

[frogspawner]

What's the difference between 2nd and 3rd age?

About 500 years.

Seriously, 3rd age is the original RQ setting - on the world of Glorantha, about the year 1600, usually in and around the famous Dragon Pass and/or the Prax desert and the city of Pavis, typically featuring heroic rebels struggling against the mighty Lunar Empire. This is the setting that made RQ great.

2nd age, set in the doomed past of Glorantha about the year 1100 before everyone was eaten by dragons and other disasters, is a new invention, usually involving struggles against the misguided God Learners, who sought to reduce nature and myth to simple game-like principles they selfishly manipulate. This is the setting that Mongoose publishing hope will make them money. I'm not keen.

MRQ is called RuneQuest but isn't as good, having been spoiled by poor design, IMHO - and is more like D&D in style. BRP is much better - more like true RuneQuest (although Chaosium have lost the RQ name, due to legal shenanagins).

[Shaira]

Personally, if you want to get into RuneQuest quickly, I'd pick up a copy of RQ2 from eBay, plus the Borderlands reprint (and maybe the Cult Compendium) from Moon Design (or eBay, again). That'll give you a full ruleset and a classic, truly excellent, long campaign set in "classic" RuneQuest territory - the River of Cradles in the desert-land of Prax. If you can't afford the Cult Compendium, a cheaper copy of Cults of Prax from eBay will do, and, to be honest, to play Borderlands you can actually do without both (the RQ2 book gives you the Orlanth cult, which will get you through).

If you like what you see, then you have a huge number of options. RuneQuest, and its "host world" Glorantha, is very rich, and the trick is not to get overwhelmed by trying to read and learn everything. Pick a place and an era you like, and get stuck in - which is why I recommend Borderlands, it's very easy entry to get started, and a great set of adventures to boot.

Regarding which rules to use - it's personal preference. I personally think the new MRQ rules are a bit snafu'd for playing Glorantha "properly" - particularly with regard to the magic systems - but that's just me, I've played Glorantha for 25 years and MRQ just changed too much to be credible Glorantha for me. Hopefully (and I hear rumours...) they will sort the magic system stuff out soon... RQ2 (and especially RQ3) basically *is* BRP, easy and v. quick to learn, logical and elegant, so you'll find plenty of scope for crossover and re-use of material. You can even just use the BRP rules and "bolt on" the Gloranthan magic system(s) from the RQ2 or RQ3 rules - which may be the best future-proofed option.

Above all - focus on playing the game and enjoying yourself rather than learning everything, and jump in! RQ is a very cool game, and Glorantha an excellent setting. I can't recommend it highly enough.

May the Broos stay off your back, and you always make your POW gain roll!

Cheers,

Sarah

[GerallKahla]

Not much to add here; previous posters are dead-on!

Glorantha is a world that's just alien enough to draw you in without being completely incomprehensible. I'll agree with Shaira when she advises "Don't get overwhelmed." It's a huge setting with layers of history to choose from.

You could do far, far worse than picking up the Borderlands reprint from Moon Design and getting started there. It's 3rd Age, it's broad and deep (both being hard to get from a single gaming purchase in the modern market), and genuinely fun to explore.

Hope you have fun with it - let us know how things go.

[Nightshade]

It also depends on whether you're specifically looking to play in Glorantha; I much prefered RQ3 on a number of grounds, not the least of which it had been at least moderately separated by the Glorantha-centric assumptions built into it.

[frogspawner]

...my first question is, just where in the hell does one start? What book would you recommend to a first time RQ user?

Oops! Just realized I didn't answer the first question...

Personally, if you want to get into RuneQuest quickly, I'd pick up a copy of RQ2 from eBay...

Yes, seconded! RQ2 is absolutely the right book to start with. Preferably, get the boxed version, which also includes Apple Lane (classic beginner scenarios) and Fangs (stock monsters & characters).)

It scores over RQ3 by having nice extras (atmosphere, treasure tables, religious write-ups, chaotic features, etc) all in there.

[RosenMcStern]

As stated before, I am definitely against advising to get out-of-print materials. RQ2 is almost 30 year old, and even though its "atmosphere" was great, it contains game concepts that are terribly outdated. If you start with RQ2, you will have conversion problems with everything if you later want to move your game to BRP.

A good alternative for the Third Age if you do not want to read all the HeroWars / HeroQuest stuff would be picking River of Cradles instead, for instance, which is also set in Pavis but after the setting had been explored for 20 years or so. It is still an out of print book, but it contains all of the starting religious info to play an Orlanthi,too, (and you do not want to play any stinking Lunar, do you?) and all the stats given are 100% compatible with BRP 1. You will need some spell descriptions, but if you are a bit patient I am finishing my list of basic RQ spells adapted to BRP, so you will be able to play all the old Gloranthan supplements with the BRP rules and just the MRQ SRD, which is free, for magic.

[Aycorn]

As stated before, I am definitely against advising to get out-of-print materials. RQ2 is almost 30 year old, and even though its "atmosphere" was great, it contains game concepts that are terribly outdated.

Not meant to play devil's advocate or sound like a jerk, but what, specifically, are these "dated" game concepts?

[vagabond]

I've just recently gotten into BRP via CoC and I love it. Wish I would have gotten into this system long ago. I've been looking through past threads here and doing a little research elsewhere about RuneQuest but there is just so much out there it's a little overwhelming.

I am interested in introducing RQ to my group later so right now I'm on a fact finding mission and my first question is, just where in the hell does one start? What book would you recommend to a first time RQ user? What's the difference between RQ and MRQ? I've seen so much out there online that I'm not sure where to dig in at. Any advice would be appreciated.

Hound

First off, what is it about RQ that intrigues you? The setting? Or the system?

Are you looking for a generic BRP Fantasy game? Or is it the lure of playing

in Glorantha that you find appealing?

-V

[Atgxtg]

Not meant to play devil's advocate or sound like a jerk, but what, specifically, are these "dated" game concepts?

I think you're right. Considering that Jason seems to have based BRP mostly on pre-RQ3 stuff (Worlds of Wonder, Strombringer, CoC), I suspect RQ3 fans will probably just as many conversion problems.

Not to knock BRP or anything but my advice to people happily playing RQ2, RQ3, or even MRQ, and it is covering what they want to do, why change?

I see BRP for those who want to do things differently than in RQ ,or those wo want something simpler. But why would take BRP and use the options to turn it into, say, RQ3 if you already have RQ3? JUst seems like a lot of unecessary work.

[NickMiddleton]

As stated before, I am definitely against advising to get out-of-print materials. RQ2 is almost 30 year old, and even though its "atmosphere" was great, it contains game concepts that are terribly outdated. If you start with RQ2, you will have conversion problems with everything if you later want to move your game to BRP.

Well, RQII maybe (opposed skills are different, Defense) but RQIII? That's 25 years old and bar a few names and the magic system, the new BRP can reproduce it pretty closely, certainly close enough that you could use old RQIII supplements with the new BRP, and (with a varying amount of work depending on which BRP options are used) convert any modern BRP book for use with RQIII.

And last time I checked, RPG ideas don't come with a "use by" date mandated by the Gaming Police, so "game concepts that are terribly outdated" seems to me, no offence, a pretty silly comment. "No longer / not currently in fashion" certainly, "ideas that have been improved on in the light of experience in more recent games" quite possibly. But "outdated" just makes no sense to me when applied to game rules.

Cheers,

Nick

[vagabond]

I think you're right. Considering that Jason seems to have based BRP mostly on pre-RQ3 stuff (Worlds of Wonder, Strombringer, CoC), I suspect RQ3 fans will probably just as many conversion problems.

Actually, the new BRP book is based upon post-RQ3. It uses the system as

presented in Elric!/SB5, CoC 5.5+, and Nephilim as its core.

The older stuff has been reintroduced into that core.

-V

[Hound of Tindalos]

First off, what is it about RQ that intrigues you? The setting? Or the system?

Are you looking for a generic BRP Fantasy game? Or is it the lure of playing

in Glorantha that you find appealing?

-V

Aside from it being BRP and a fantasy setting, nothing really. Just from my reading of the forums here it seemed like "the" fantasy game for BRP and even though my group is currently going insane with CoC, I'd like to run a fantasy game in the near future. I have no interest in D&D and the d20 stuff now that I have converted to BRP, so I am really just looking for a solid fantasy game to run using the BRP system. The Glorantha setting sounds interesting, but I don't know enough about it to say that I am actually drawn to it. If there are other BRP fantasy games out there I'd be just as eager to look them over as well. Especially if it doesn't require me having to hunt them down on ebay.

I appreciate everyone's input and help. Thanks for helping me make heads or tails of RQ. I think with what's been said, I have a little more direction on how to pursue it now, but will keep reading this thread in case something else pops up. Thanks again everyone! :thumb:

Hound

[vagabond]

Aside from it being BRP and a fantasy setting, nothing really. Just from my reading of the forums here it seemed like "the" fantasy game for BRP and even though my group is currently going insane with CoC, I'd like to run a fantasy game in the near future. I have no interest in D&D and the d20 stuff now that I have converted to BRP, so I am really just looking for a solid fantasy game to run using the BRP system. The Glorantha setting sounds interesting, but I don't know enough about it to say that I am actually drawn to it. If there are other BRP fantasy games out there I'd be just as eager to look them over as well. Especially if it doesn't require me having to hunt them down on ebay.

I appreciate everyone's input and help. Thanks for helping me make heads or tails of RQ. I think with what's been said, I have a little more direction on how to pursue it now, but will keep reading this thread in case something else pops up. Thanks again everyone! :thumb:

Hound

Stormbringer5/Elric! It's very close to what the current BRP is. I believe you

can still order it through Chaosium. It's also very easy to locate on eBay. Or,

get the Mongoose version. Either way, if you like Moorcock's Elric, then this

is a great Sword & Sorcery setting using BRP.

Also, with very little work, you could get Mongoose's Slaine or Lankhmar, and

use BRP.

-V

[Harshax]

And last time I checked, RPG ideas don't come with a "use by" date mandated by the Gaming Police, so "game concepts that are terribly outdated" seems to me, no offence, a pretty silly comment. "No longer / not currently in fashion" certainly, "ideas that have been improved on in the light of experience in more recent games" quite possibly. But "outdated" just makes no sense to me when applied to game rules.

I completely disagree with this statement. Outdated can easily mean all those things and more.

[NickMiddleton]

I completely disagree with this statement. Outdated can easily mean all those things and more.

*shrug* In internet gaming forums it's almost exclusively used in the narrow negative sense of "no longer valid simply because it's old", and from the rest of the post that appeared to be the usage here. As ever YMMV

Cheers,

Nick

[deleriad]

Well I think it's fair to say that if you want to play a particular game then it makes sense to get supporting materials for that game. So, for example, if you wanted to play RQ2 it would make sense to get one of the Moon Reprints of the RQ2 campaigns. If you want to play RQ3 then buy RQ3 and try to get a supplement - easier said than done. Same with Mongoose RQ but be aware that the default setting in Glorantha is different. However, buying BRP and a RQx supplement and then trying to mod BRP and the supplement to have them work together is a lot of effort for no obvious gain.

The obvious question is: is it that system or the setting that appeals to the OP? (Or both.) If it's the setting and you want to use BRP then you will have to adapt BRP to the setting. From the sounds of it, the OP wants to run fantasy using BRP and does not much mind what the setting is.

In that case just use BRP right out of the book and find a scenario or two to play to see how you like it.

[Trifletraxor]

If Glorantha is the lure, get RQ3 + the Moon Design reprints (the RQ3 rulebook is better than RQ2 I think, and it's really no problems using RQ2 supplements for it).

If you just want to play BRP fantasy, get the BRP book and one of the new settings!

[RosenMcStern]

Not meant to play devil's advocate or sound like a jerk, but what, specifically, are these "dated" game concepts?

- No Power Points. This Temporary POW stuff can give you a big headache.

- SIZ and INT rolled on 3d6 (no longer used in any BRP game)

- skill increments in 5% steps only

- artificial spell limits (Protection 4 is the top, even for the Ultra-High-Priest)

- incompatible values for armors (incompatible with BRP1 I mean)

- no ENC or fatigue option

Etc. etc. RQ3 is not perfect, but is closer to BRP as it is now.

[RosenMcStern]

I think you're right. Considering that Jason seems to have based BRP mostly on pre-RQ3 stuff (Worlds of Wonder, Strombringer, CoC), I suspect RQ3 fans will probably just as many conversion problems.

On the contrary, there is absolutely NO problem in converting anything written for RQ3 to BRP 1 (and anything written for SB, too). Differences are neglectable. In addition to this, using old RQ3 stuff with BRP adds the option of dropping something that was not optional before (Strike Ranks or the like). Using the RQ2 rules as base introduces conversion problems like Defense, armor with different values, etc.

[frogspawner]

- No Power Points. This Temporary POW stuff can give you a big headache.

- SIZ and INT rolled on 3d6 (no longer used in any BRP game)

- skill increments in 5% steps only

- artificial spell limits (Protection 4 is the top, even for the Ultra-High-Priest)

- incompatible values for armors (incompatible with BRP1 I mean)

- no ENC or fatigue option

Insignificant differences. Plus RQ2/3 do have an ENC system, btw. (And although Fatigue didn't come until RQ3, nobody used/uses it anyway!)

RQ2 is best. Plus it's Apple Lane supplement if you can get it - doesn't everyone start in the Rainbow Mounds?

[RosenMcStern]

Well, RQII maybe (opposed skills are different, Defense) but RQIII? That's 25 years old and bar a few names and the magic system, the new BRP can reproduce it pretty closely, certainly close enough that you could use old RQIII supplements with the new BRP, and (with a varying amount of work depending on which BRP options are used) convert any modern BRP book for use with RQIII.

Ehm, in fact I wanted to suggest MRQ but it is terribly unpopular on this forum. And not very compatible with BRP.

And last time I checked, RPG ideas don't come with a "use by" date mandated by the Gaming Police, so "game concepts that are terribly outdated" seems to me, no offence, a pretty silly comment. "No longer / not currently in fashion" certainly, "ideas that have been improved on in the light of experience in more recent games" quite possibly. But "outdated" just makes no sense to me when applied to game rules.

Thanks God, gaming is one of the few areas that has not got a specialized police force (yet).

As for what is outdated and what is out of fashion, well, I'll explain my idea:

Take the game concept of Armor Class; it is outdated, as each and nearly all game systems other than That Game keeps it at bay for fear of appearing stupid. No sensible game designer would use it nowadays if starting from scratch. But it is certainly not out of fashion, as 90% of gamers play a game that uses it.

Got the idea? Rolling 3d6 for SIZ or using a d100 like it was a d20 are wrong rules [there are still some in BRP, sadly], not "no longer fashionable" rules. If you grok computer programming, it is like the goto statement. It is not "old-fashioned" programming that was popular in the '70s and will become popular again, it is a bad programming technique no one would use any more once the languages have introduced structured programming (barring some fanatics who like to code hyerogliphs).