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RQ2/RQ3 : 2 weapons & 2 attacks in the same round?


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On 29 September 2016 at 5:27 PM, RosenMcStern said:

The BIG advantage, which is decently modeled in the RQ3 rules, is that the dual wielder can engage the single wielder's weapon with his parrying weapon, and counterattack when the latter cannot parry because his weapon is engaged. This is handled with the rule "A weapon cannot attack and parry in the same SR". Thus, the dual wielder need only state "I counterattack on the SR he attacks" and the single wielder cannot parry. In RQ, this is deadly.

Other rulesets give extra actions for the secondary weapon, but this requires a different combat model based on action points, which is absolutely not in use in classic RQs.

Wow long discussion - helpful in refreshing my memory of the rules, and sorting RQ2 from RQ3.

RosenMcStern - Just trying to figure out what you're implying here, as it sounds like it has potential. Apologies my RQ rules memory is a bit rusty, and I may have missed a bit of the context.

Are you saying that a two weapon user in RQ3 can elect to counter attack with his/her second weapon on the same SR with which he/she parries with the first weapon? Which has the effect of making the single weapon user unable to parry, as his weapon is engaged on that SR?  I thought that a weapons attack was only possible on its particular Strike Rank. I haven't found an instance in the rules which suggests a counter attack possibility on a chosen SR as in your statement "I counterattack on the SR he attacks"? 

Edit: Therefore am I correct in thinking 

  • You can delay an attack to a Strike rank later in the melee round ( enabling your "counterattack" suggestion)
  • With 2 weapons it is possible to Parry with one weapon, whilst simultaneously attacking with the other on the same Strike Rank

Which by extension is reliant on the 2 weapon user having a SR of the same value or lower then his/her opponent, in order to counter attack on the same strike rank?

Edited by Paid a bod yn dwp
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Using the RQ3 rules, IIRC if a 2h weapon wielder attacked a dual-wielding defender: If the dual wielder had a lower SR (and had on her action declared "I'll attack when they do") I'd allow the dual wielder to parry offhand, and attack main hand simultaneously...meaning the 2h user cannot parry on that same SR.  I think that would be a fairly clever tactic, but of course concedes the initiative to the attacker which might have its own consequences.

Sure, verisimilitude might dictate that doing both in the same SR would involve some other penalty, but that's getting down in the weeds a bit IMO.

 

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14 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Thanks styopa & RosenMcStern

Thats really helpful cheers. Nice to know that I'm not misinterpreting RQ rules. I'd forgotten many of the nuances. A very useful refresh - need to plan a game now :) 

 

We're playing this evening - stop by!  OK, maybe you're not conveniently close to Minneapolis.  But you'd still be welcome.  We're doing the WFRP Shadows over Bogenhafen adventure, morphed into a town in Western Loskalm and with a few Gloranthan twists.

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On 1/19/2017 at 11:53 PM, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

Hi all,

Thought this would be the relevant place to get clarity on a ruling of 2 weapon use in Runequest classic.

I've been revisiting the rule book, and finding that I'm not entirely clear on a ruling. On p29 of the classic Runequest,  the rules for Two Weapon Use continue, and point 6 has a bit of ambiguity for me:

In particular the last sentence of  point 6 which states

Am I right in thinking that this is saying that one of the weapons can be used to as a split attack( page 26 classic Runequest), to attack 2 separate opponents, following which the second weapon can  attack normally at full percentage on one of these multiple opponents? Is this suggesting that providing there is sufficient strike ranks, a two weapon users can potentially have 3 attacks,but not 4? So in other words splitting the second weapon attack is not allowed in the RQ2 rules?

 

FullSizeRender.jpg

 

Don't forget that this is two-weapon use for skills over 100%.

The normal rule is that a skill over 100% can be used to split against two foes, splitting each to half the attack chance.

This just says the second weapon can be used to attack at full chance, in addition to splitting the first weapon, thus giving the PC three attacks.

So, the options are:

Attack one foe with each weapon at full chance

Attack two foes twice, splitting both attacks against each foe

Attack two foes with one weapon, splitting the attack, then attack one foe with the second weapon at full chance

 

Basically you have 2 Combat Actions per round, split between Attack/Parry/Spell Casting. If you have two weapons, you can attack or parry with any combination of those two weapons. If you choose 2 Attacks, you can attack two foes once or one foe twice. If you have over 100% in the weapons, you can further split those weapons against the same, or different foes.

 

It was fun playing Shergar Sunhoof, Centaur Extraordinaire, as he had a free Kick attack, being a Centaur. He also gained Jake's Amulet (Based on Jake the Peg, with an extra leg) which gave him an extra leg that could be used as a free attack om the same SR as his normal kick, so he had 2 extra attacks. He also gained the Spider Mask, which allowed him to use Transform Head once per week, transforming his head into that of a Giant Spider, giving him another extra attack at DEXx5. He had DEX 25 and could push it to DEX 29 by using a Heroic Ability and was SIZ 40, so he had a base SR of 1. One of our party's tactics was to use him against a crowd of minions, freeing up the other PCs to fight important opponents. He used to go Berserk and hit with Spear/Spear (SR 2/4, Kick/Kick SR 8/12, Kick/Kick SR 8/12, Bite/Bite/Bite SR 4/8/12, so 9 attacks per round, each at over 100%, he was pretty much guaranteed to take down 4 opponents (attacking each twice) and could take down up to 9 opponents per round. Even if the bite didn't kill the opponent, it injected POT 21 Poison, so would take them down in 3 rounds. Happy days.

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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Hmm, something in the book doesn't make sense to me. In the example posted it says that someone who weapons were at SR 6 could only attack at SR 6 and SR 12. So with two weapon you add the SR's together? So a Giant (SIZ SR0), with some Coordination (for DEX SR1) wielding two trees (weapon SR0)  at 100%, could have a SR 0 with each weapon So if he was splitting both weapon attacks he could get two attack out each weapon on SR 0? 

That seems off. Shouldn't there be a 5 SR delay for the off hand weapon? Yeah I know a DEX boosted giant wielding trees is an extreme example, but I though there was a delay in the off hand weapon, or was that just in RQ3?

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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2 hours ago, soltakss said:

 

Don't forget that this is two-weapon use for skills over 100%.

The normal rule is that a skill over 100% can be used to split against two foes, splitting each to half the attack chance.

This just says the second weapon can be used to attack at full chance, in addition to splitting the first weapon, thus giving the PC three attacks.

So, the options are:

Attack one foe with each weapon at full chance

Attack two foes twice, splitting both attacks against each foe

Attack two foes with one weapon, splitting the attack, then attack one foe with the second weapon at full chance

 

Basically you have 2 Combat Actions per round, split between Attack/Parry/Spell Casting. If you have two weapons, you can attack or parry with any combination of those two weapons. If you choose 2 Attacks, you can attack two foes once or one foe twice. If you have over 100% in the weapons, you can further split those weapons against the same, or different foes.

 

It was fun playing Shergar Sunhoof, Centaur Extraordinaire, as he had a free Kick attack, being a Centaur. He also gained Jake's Amulet (Based on Jake the Peg, with an extra leg) which gave him an extra leg that could be used as a free attack om the same SR as his normal kick, so he had 2 extra attacks. He also gained the Spider Mask, which allowed him to use Transform Head once per week, transforming his head into that of a Giant Spider, giving him another extra attack at DEXx5. He had DEX 25 and could push it to DEX 29 by using a Heroic Ability and was SIZ 40, so he had a base SR of 1. One of our party's tactics was to use him against a crowd of minions, freeing up the other PCs to fight important opponents. He used to go Berserk and hit with Spear/Spear (SR 2/4, Kick/Kick SR 8/12, Kick/Kick SR 8/12, Bite/Bite/Bite SR 4/8/12, so 9 attacks per round, each at over 100%, he was pretty much guaranteed to take down 4 opponents (attacking each twice) and could take down up to 9 opponents per round. Even if the bite didn't kill the opponent, it injected POT 21 Poison, so would take them down in 3 rounds. Happy days.

Thanks thats a very clear summary - great. It should be made a sticky at the top of the forums somewhere :)

Heh heh - I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of Shergar Sunhoof, Centaur Extraordinaire. A truly awesome opponent,sent a shiver down my spine just reading that description :) 

 

 

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10 hours ago, styopa said:

We're playing this evening - stop by!  OK, maybe you're not conveniently close to Minneapolis.  But you'd still be welcome.  We're doing the WFRP Shadows over Bogenhafen adventure, morphed into a town in Western Loskalm and with a few Gloranthan twists.

Heh heh, thanks - Great combo shadows over Bogenhafen and Glorantha, enjoy!

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18 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Hmm, something in the book doesn't make sense to me. In the example posted it says that someone who weapons were at SR 6 could only attack at SR 6 and SR 12. So with two weapon you add the SR's together? So a Giant (SIZ SR0), with some Coordination (for DEX SR1) wielding two trees (weapon SR0)  at 100%, could have a SR 0 with each weapon So if he was splitting both weapon attacks he could get two attack out each weapon on SR 0? 

That seems off. Shouldn't there be a 5 SR delay for the off hand weapon? Yeah I know a DEX boosted giant wielding trees is an extreme example, but I though there was a delay in the off hand weapon, or was that just in RQ3?

I see your point, 0 + 0 = 0. I think in this scenario i'd be running away from the nimble 2 tree wielding giant, before waiting to see which SR he attacks on (then again not much chance of that on SR 0) :) 

I imagine that the sheer long reach of the 2 tree attacks is what would justify the SR 0 attacks. Perhaps a good time to "close in" on the giant to negate long reach advantage?  Having said that a GM call could easily introduce the RQ 3 ruling for 2 weapon attacks, and add 3 SR ( I checked the rule book) delay for the second weapon attack, if 2 attacks on SR 0 seem unreasonable. 

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18 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Hmm, something in the book doesn't make sense to me. In the example posted it says that someone who weapons were at SR 6 could only attack at SR 6 and SR 12. So with two weapon you add the SR's together? So a Giant (SIZ SR0), with some Coordination (for DEX SR1) wielding two trees (weapon SR0)  at 100%, could have a SR 0 with each weapon So if he was splitting both weapon attacks he could get two attack out each weapon on SR 0? 

That seems off. Shouldn't there be a 5 SR delay for the off hand weapon? Yeah I know a DEX boosted giant wielding trees is an extreme example, but I though there was a delay in the off hand weapon, or was that just in RQ3?

Don't forget that you add the SIZ and DEX SR to the Weapon SR, so said Giant would attack on SR1 and splitting allows attacks on SR1 and SR 2.

RQ3 had a rule that there was a 3SR delay between weapon attacks, but RQ2 definitely doesn't.

Our RQ2 party had a Great Troll and a Dark Troll who used Troll Mauls at SR1 and when they were tanked up, they were attacking on SR 1,2,3.

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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22 hours ago, soltakss said:

RQ3 had a rule that there was a 3SR delay between weapon attacks, but RQ2 definitely doesn't.

Yes, I prefer the RQ2 (classic) ruling here - adding the previous weapon SR to the new attacks's SR. Its a bit more colourful then RQ3 approach of adding a standard 3SR to subsequent attacks. The RQ 2 approach has the potential for more attacks in a round, which I think can lead to more exciting & extraordinary characters like Mr Shergar Sunhoof, and those tanked up Trolls. Its nice to have a game which scales well in both directions with contrasting character abilities, some ordinary & some extraordinary - A more colourful game :)

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