Thed, Broos and Satyrs

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

That wasn't what I was talking about.  I was pointing out that there are no rules for normal childbirth (which is traumatic enough) to juxtapose with broo birth. 

Different Worlds #24 AD&D: Pregnancy And Adventure by Colleen A. Bishop (the Mostali issue).

Different RPG, but the system shock roll could be translated (into a CON x 5 roll with a failure causing damage depending on the level of failure), as well as the long-term CON results.

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

 Please read my comment more closely.

Your comment was ambiguous...

[David Scott]

On 10/23/2016 at 9:41 AM, M Helsdon said:

Normal birth for a broo is eating its way out...

The references for Broo Biology and Reproduction are in River of Cradles page 54, the relevant line on page 55 being:

Quote

The larval broo grows as a parasite in the viscera of the victim, bursting out of its abdomen at full term, causing 2d6 points of damage to the victim (healable by magic or by time). 

As for childbirth, in a magic rich world, magic like Bless Childbirth, Heal, Remove pain, Ease Birth etc. will go a long way in making childbirth "damage" a non-issue. Unless a woman (or other female species) is on her own in unfavourable conditions, i'd ignore it. I'm sure Chalana Arroy has magics to ease the mind of such an experience as broo birth and likely can stop it completely. An adventure scenario would be to get the Broo victim to the White Ladies before the "birth", you've two seasons so I'd add some difficulties..

[g33k]

Also an issue:  how does "broo-heritance" work?

Is it just the Motie Handwave (3-handed, donchaknow) of "it's myth / it's magic / it's Glorantha," or is there any (published/canon) info as to how a parasite "inherits" features from its non-broo parent?

If "broos" were a real-world species, the biology-based answer would actually be kind of easy:  they don't (inherit, that is); they aren't even "breeding with" the host, it's parthogenesis, & parasitism.  Rather than "inheriting" from the "parent," the larva is adopting features from the host orgamism.  This becomes completely-clear when you consider that F2 generation.  For example, consider a tribe of broo who all have cattle-like features because they were all broo-born out of matings with local cattle.  If this were "inheritance," then the cattle-heritage would now be fixed in the gene-line.  But if the cattle are all taken away and the tribe reverts to broo-on-broo mating, they return to the classic "goatkin" form in the very next generation.

However... this IS Glorantha, there IS magic, and myth is a MUCH more-likely answer than biology ...  If canon authors have actually developed the squicky details, that is ...

 

[TRose]

 Just thinking( Something I try to avoid) and I remember reading how the Aliens in the Alien franchise movies  are said to take on attributes of their "hosts". too

[Oracle]

On 24.10.2016 at 0:57 PM, David Scott said:

The references for Broo Biology and Reproduction are in River of Cradles page 54, the relevant line on page 55 being:

...

I'm a bit confused here. In my version of River of Cradles this bit of information can be found on pages 31 and 32. Are there different River of Cradles editions available?

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, Oracle said:

I'm a bit confused here. In my version of River of Cradles this bit of information can be found on pages 31 and 32. Are there different River of Cradles editions available?

Oops, you are spot on, I quoted the wrong page numbers. Thanks for pointing it out and correcting. Pages 31 and 32 it is.

[JonL]

The Goats=Broos=Unclean=Thed&Ragnalar connection seems to be limited to Orlanthi cultures. The Guide has numerous mentions of goat herding in other cultures and areas with no mention of ill effects, Satyr mentioned as distinct from Broo, Caroni mountain-goat Hsunchen in Ralios ("While some ignorant people associate them with broo, the Caroni have as much distaste for Chaos as do other sensible Gloranthans."), Ram or Goat Mother as aspects of Daroria - the Orayan Over-Goddess, and more. In that context, I don't see any reason why Satyrs need to have any connection to Broo or to the Unoly Trio, despite what Orlanthi might assume.

Edited November 1, 2016 by JonL

[g33k]

2 hours ago, JonL said:

The Goats=Broos=Unclean=Thed&Ragnalar connection seems to be limited to Orlanthi cultures. The Guide has numerous mentions of goat herding in other cultures and areas with no mention of ill effects, Satyr mentioned as distinct from Broo, Caroni mountain-goat Hsunchen in Ralios ("While some ignorant people associate them with broo, the Caroni have as much distaste for Chaos as do other sensible Gloranthans."), Ram or Goat Mother as aspects of Daroria - the Orayan Over-Goddess, and more. In that context, I don't see any reason why Satyrs need to have any connection to Broo or to the Unoly Trio, despite what Orlanthi might assume.

I think the Broo/Unclean/Thed&Ragnalar connection is clear, and not an errror!

It's just an error when conflating normal goats/sheep/etc, and Satyrs/Caroni/etc, with that broo/etc line .   And because the Orlanthi are so central to so much of published Glorantha canon, this issue (this error of theirs) looms larger than perhaps it should.

A question:  do other members of the Storm Tribe also share the "goats are unclean" prejudice?

 

[JonL]

Oh yeah, the nasty Broo + Unholy Trio connection is clear. It's just goats getting an undeserved bad rap. They might get used by somebody  as a ritual correspondence for Thed or Ragnalar at some point, but that's hardly the scape goat's fault.

[Ian Cooper]

On 24/10/2016 at 11:57 AM, David Scott said:

As for childbirth, in a magic rich world, magic like Bless Childbirth, Heal, Remove pain, Ease Birth etc. will go a long way in making childbirth "damage" a non-issue. Unless a woman (or other female species) is on her own in unfavourable conditions, i'd ignore it. I'm sure Chalana Arroy has magics to ease the mind of such an experience as broo birth and likely can stop it completely. An adventure scenario would be to get the Broo victim to the White Ladies before the "birth", you've two seasons so I'd add some difficulties..

Any leading "woman's goddess" is going to have protection in childbirth as a major part of her remit. In our own world Isis, Astarte, Tanit Hera, the syncretic Catholic Mary, etc. all have protection of mother's in childbirth as a primary role. Anyone who has gone through parenthood (or understands the mortality rate of childbirth) will know that it is definitely sufficently terrifying that a goddess who can intercede to ensure safe delivery of a healthy baby would be very, very popular.

In Glorantha, where magic is real, the role of these cults is a significant difference from our own world. (I like to say that Glorantha is the world our ancient ancestors wanted to live in)

[Ian Cooper]

On 05/10/2016 at 11:38 PM, g33k said:

Ummmm ... except they are !   Very clearly, broos are a goat-headed species "by default."  From the RQClassic PDF sitting open on my desktop:  "Human-bodied and goat-headed, the broos (or goatkin) are tied irrevocably with the Rune of Chaos."

Greg? later revised this to indicate that the default 'goat' broo was a polite fiction and that most broo were incrediby varied due to their reproductive approach. That came to be reflected in later supplements such as The Big Rubble. Are their goat-headed broo in Dragon Pass, given the Orlanthi don't keep goats. I would suggest only in areas where 'civilized' broo herd goats to provide 'mothers' for their offspring, and to prevent the need to 'raid' exposing them to retaliation. Otherwise, I would have thought it would be whatever was 'to hand'. I did write an essay once about the broo ecology of Snakepipe Hollow, and considered submitting it to WF, but no one seemed to really like it.

[Jeff]

29 minutes ago, Ian Cooper said:

Any leading "woman's goddess" is going to have protection in childbirth as a major part of her remit. In our own world Isis, Astarte, Tanit Hera, the syncretic Catholic Mary, etc. all have protection of mother's in childbirth as a primary role. Anyone who has gone through parenthood (or understands the mortality rate of childbirth) will know that it is definitely sufficently terrifying that a goddess who can intercede to ensure safe delivery of a healthy baby would be very, very popular.

In Glorantha, where magic is real, the role of these cults is a significant difference from our own world. (I like to say that Glorantha is the world our ancient ancestors wanted to live in)

Which is why Ernalda has Bless Pregnancy, which pretty much ensures that a healthy child will be born as a result of the pregnancy. 

[JonL]

I can see goat-Broo being a common phenotype in Dragon Pass even without many domestic herds. Anyplace mountainous is likely to have a wild goat population in out-of-the-way areas too rugged for settlement, which would also be where Broos have the opportunity to fester.

Is serial rapists gradually turning into Broo still a thing? Do they look goatish?

[David Scott]

I think the goat headed broo is visual shorthand for all broo. Given the variance of them, perhaps all representations are goat-headed, just so that people know what you are referring to. In ceremonies, I suspect that broo are alway represented by goat-faced masks and curly horns. Think of the masks in Pavis:GtA and how broo would look. The origin of why they are goat-headed is likely lost in most places, but if you ask, of course Ragnaglar was goat-headed. I can see a group of Bully Boys sticking a broo mask on a Lunar captive so they can "play" the chaos role in a ceremony. In Prax, I also assume the same, even though there are no goats. No one wants Chaos represented by one of Eiritha's children.

Edited November 2, 2016 by David Scott