Uleria in Solar Cult

[Darius West]

9 hours ago, Mankcam said:

I think perhaps a skimpy one heh heh 

LOL, Esrolian priestesses be like "tits out for the goddess" Minoan style according to Prince of Sartar webcomic.  What are Uleria-ing at?

Edited October 13, 2016 by Darius West

[Haimji]

I found this in "new pavis encounters" from "pavis : gateway to adventure, p 244 : "When outside of the Uleria temple, Samha wears exotic and titillating clothes of silk and linen, and a grand golden necklace."

I don't know if i can post the picture or not (because of copyright) but if you got the book, check page 244.

[g33k]

Also of possible relevance:

http://www.glorantha.com/sketch-of-two-ernalda-priestesses/

That rather speaks to a less-uniform "uniform" and more to whatever is appropriate to the specific place.  I'd expect a smaller and less-influential cult like Uleria's to be MORE accommodating of whatever-makes-local-sense.

 

[Haimji]

Yes, the distinctive costume weared by Ulerian at pavis may be a pavisite one. So an Ulerian priestress in Boldhome wears an other one, because of weather for example.

[M Helsdon]

17 hours ago, Haimji said:

Thank you. I checked but its not a write-up but a preview from "gods of glorantha".

It contains far more than is in 'Gods of Glorantha'.

[Tindalos]

Outside the temple, they wear whatever is usually appropriate.

Inside the temple, they are generally dressed in just a loincloth, cloak, or similar things -- at most.

For the inside of the temple is a piece of the Green Age, when things like clothing were not needed.

[M Helsdon]

16 hours ago, Darius West said:

LOL, Esrolian priestesses be like "tits out for the goddess" Minoan style according to Prince of Sartar webcomic.  What are Uleria-ing at?

If you peruse HeroQuest: Glorantha, you'll find Minoan-style dresses are common in Esrolia; less common in Sartar because of the climate.

[g33k]

5 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

If you peruse HeroQuest: Glorantha, you'll find Minoan-style dresses are common in Esrolia; less common in Sartar because of the climate.

Yeah.  Prince of Sartar just follows the cues previously given by Gloranthan canon... but it IS a nice place to grab som vivid imagery when that's wanted!

[M Helsdon]

20 minutes ago, g33k said:

Yeah.  Prince of Sartar just follows the cues previously given by Gloranthan canon... but it IS a nice place to grab som vivid imagery when that's wanted!

I wouldn't be surprised if, in Esrolia, Ulerian initiates and priestesses aren't more demure in their costume that others. The costume of Samha on page 244 of Pavis:GtA might be imported from Esrolia: certainly the linen and perhaps the silk are.

[Haimji]

1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

I wouldn't be surprised if, in Esrolia, Ulerian initiates and priestesses aren't more demure in their costume that others. The costume of Samha on page 244 of Pavis:GtA might be imported from Esrolia: certainly the linen and perhaps the silk are.

Uleria is worshipped as Esrola in Dragon pass, so maybe the priestress wear a costume like others Esrolan preistress?

In Esrola, if i had understand, Uleria is worshipped as himself, not a subcult. So perhaps the priestress wear a distinctive costume, like the one in Pavis. Like you said, silk is not a product from Pavis, it must be imported from Shadowland in Kethaela. (trolls are great producers of silk because of aranae & gorakiki cults)

So, is this distinctive costume like you can see page 244 in Pavis GtA, the same all over genertela?

[M Helsdon]

4 hours ago, Haimji said:

Uleria is worshipped as Esrola in Dragon pass, so maybe the priestress wear a costume like others Esrolan preistress?

Yes and no. Esrola is the Land Goddess of Esrolia and also treated as an aspect of Ernalda. Esrola Uleria is worshipped only in a few places in Dragon Pass, and it is probable that her priestesses wear a different costume to purely Esrola clergy. Esrola Uleria is viewed very differently to Esrola: Uleria is viewed as one of the enemy gods - the goddess of all-consuming passion, whose influence drive men to fight with or abandon their own kin, whereas Esrola is the manifest Earth and the Earth mother. So in both Storm and Solar cultures Uleria is a goddess who must be restricted.... The Dara Happans think Orlanth is the son of Uleria...

 

4 hours ago, Haimji said:

In Esrola, if i had understand, Uleria is worshipped as himself, not a subcult. So perhaps the priestress wear a distinctive costume, like the one in Pavis.

In Esrolia, there is a temple to Uleria at Ezel, and I imagine lesser shrines in Nochet (if Seseine has a temple there then Uleria can hardly be excluded).

 

4 hours ago, Haimji said:

So, is this distinctive costume like you can see page 244 in Pavis GtA, the same all over genertela?

I doubt it, as different cultures will have different views as to what is alluring or seductive.

I would not be surprised if the Ulerians who travel around Sun County aren't fully clothed and veiled so as not to scandalize the social mores of the Yelmalions, but remove a layer or two in a sacred setting, and several more for worship. Conversely, given that Esrolians aren't going to be shocked by Minoan styles, a Ulerian might 'cover up' in gauzy silks or linen, which both conceal and display.

Whilst the Holy Country has lost much of its 'Egyptian' feel (though kohl-rimmed eyes, close-fitting tube dresses and linen are still present), I suspect Ulerians favor diaphanous fabrics, especially thin silk and the sort of fine linen the Ancient Egyptians called 'royal linen', or even wear 'bead-net dresses' either sewn onto a linen dress or worked into a separate net worn over the linen, or lacking any backing at all...

Perhaps a scene in a Nochet temple to Uleria...

Edited October 14, 2016 by M Helsdon

[jajagappa]

On 10/14/2016 at 3:12 PM, M Helsdon said:

Esrola Uleria is viewed very differently to Esrola: Uleria is viewed as one of the enemy gods - the goddess of all-consuming passion, whose influence drive men to fight with or abandon their own kin

And is also referenced as Ahrela, the Most Wanted, the Desired.

For a view of Uleria, see the heading picture at http://www.glorantha.com/ 

The figure in the upper left corner is Uleria.  She wears what appears to be a transparent 'skirt', golden ankle and wrist bracelets, a golden necklace and crown, and carries a golden mirror.  That would be a typical temple outfit (and matches well the picture that Martin posted above).  Add a relatively sheer wrap in warm climes like Esrolia (but not, I think the Ernalda outfits shown in Prince of Sartar - those are more noble women) or a cloak/robe in cooler climes like Tarsh.

 

[M Helsdon]

I've been waiting to see if anyone noticed the doves in the painting - doves being the preferred vessels for Ulerian allied spirits...

[g33k]

22 hours ago, jajagappa said:

And is also referenced as Ahrela, the Most Wanted, the Desired.

For a view of Uleria, see the heading picture at http://www.glorantha.com/ 

The figure in the upper left corner is Uleria.  She wears what appears to be a transparent 'skirt', golden ankle and wrist bracelets, a golden necklace and crown, and carries a golden mirror.  That would be a typical temple outfit (and matches well the picture that Martin posted above).  Add a relatively sheer wrap in warm climes like Esrolia (but not, I think the Ernalda outfits shown in Prince of Sartar - those are more noble women) or a cloak/robe in cooler climes like Tarsh.

 

I had taken that "skirt" as an elaborate belt (such as worn by some bellydance performers), and the anklet as cuffs on flowing "pantaloon" style pants.

Is the image available in higher resolution?

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Is the image available in higher resolution?

This is the only other version I find: http://66.media.tumblr.com/211abce7553fa5a3815caac79457c59e/tumblr_nkogcmtvxI1ruut3lo1_1280.jpg

[M Helsdon]

13 hours ago, jajagappa said:

This is the only other version I find: http://66.media.tumblr.com/211abce7553fa5a3815caac79457c59e/tumblr_nkogcmtvxI1ruut3lo1_1280.jpg

Personally, I take those images as representing deities, not the usual everyday wear of their worshippers. Just as the Masks of the Gods in Pavis:GtA and the associated costumes are divine representations. There, the Goddess of Lust wears only a short cape, anklets and bracelets. [The goddess the Orlanthi identify as Uleria is on the bottom row, second from the right.]

 

Edited October 19, 2016 by M Helsdon

[g33k]

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Personally, I take those images as representing deities, not the usual everyday wear of their worshippers. Just as the Masks of the Gods in Pavis:GtA and the associated costumes are divine representations. There, the Goddess of Lust wears only a short cape, anklets and bracelets. [The goddess the Orlanthi identify as Uleria is on the bottom row, second from the right.]

 

I think so, too.  The questions are:  WHEN and WHERE would a priest/ess of these deities (and Uleria in particular, for the thread at hand) wear something similar?  High Holy Days only?  All services or rituals?  Whenever they are in the temple?  Only when in view of others?  Out in public?   And also:  TO WHAT DEGREE of similarity would they be expected to emulate the garb?  When/where/why & how much are they allowed (or required) to depart from any "general" standard?

I would actually expect many of these questions to be answered differently for different gods/goddesses.  Again -- for purposes of this thread -- we are most interested in Uleria (& related) cult practice, if it's defined in (or can be reasonably derived from) canonical sources...

 

[Haimji]

Thank you all fo you for answering to my question

Sorry to being absent for a while but my father was at hospital, heart attack, he is 85 yo, but he is home now.

1 hour ago, g33k said:

I think so, too.  The questions are:  WHEN and WHERE would a priest/ess of these deities (and Uleria in particular, for the thread at hand) wear something similar?  High Holy Days only?  All services or rituals?  Whenever they are in the temple?  Only when in view of others?  Out in public?   And also:  TO WHAT DEGREE of similarity would they be expected to emulate the garb?  When/where/why & how much are they allowed (or required) to depart from any "general" standard?

I think they wear theses specific costumes only for holly days, and another costume for going out,  like catholic priests

the only one official source i got is Pavis GtA, page 244, about the specific costume weared by a Ulerian who go out with a body guard : white linen underdress and white silk dress, no barebreast but the dress is splitted to see legs. That's remember me "les merveilleuses", a fashion style in Paris on 1800s.

 

Edited October 19, 2016 by Haimji
spelling

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, Haimji said:

Sorry to being absent for a while but my father was at hospital, heart attack, he is 85 yo, but he is home now.

Sorry to hear that. My 82 year old mum had a heart attack in June.

1 hour ago, Haimji said:

I think they wear theses specific costumes only for holly days, and another costume for going out,  like catholic priests

Many of these costumes derived from court dress in the Late Roman Empire.

1 hour ago, Haimji said:

the only one official source i got is Pavis GtA, page 244, about the specific costume weared by a Ulerian who go out with a body guard : white linen underdress and white silk dress, no barebreast but the dress is splitted to see legs. That's remember me "les merveilleuses", a fashion style in Paris on 1800s.

Which may be a 'local' style, derived from the fairly strict Yelmalion dress code. The Uleria temple in Pavis is in Sun Town...

[M Helsdon]

2 hours ago, g33k said:

I think so, too.  The questions are:  WHEN and WHERE would a priest/ess of these deities (and Uleria in particular, for the thread at hand) wear something similar?  High Holy Days only?  All services or rituals?  Whenever they are in the temple?  Only when in view of others?  Out in public?   And also:  TO WHAT DEGREE of similarity would they be expected to emulate the garb?  When/where/why & how much are they allowed (or required) to depart from any "general" standard?

The first question to ask is: which culture do those depictions come from?

One thing we often forget is that even in terrestrial cultures, the attributes of a deity could vary widely, even over a relatively small area. Any Classical Greek would consider the generally held views about one of their deities most people could give today both inaccurate and undetailed, even one such as Zeus. The same must be true for Glorantha, where the apparent geographical spread of a name gives the illusion of a uniformity that is unlikely to be valid everywhere. It would be tiresome to use the variant names for Orlanth across the 'Barbarian Belt', but on the other hand such variation indicates the variants in belief. The guide tells us that Orlanth's worship is influenced by the proximity to different holy mountains; almost all the material we have is true for Sartar, but unlikely to be so accurate elsewhere.

Edited October 19, 2016 by M Helsdon

[Yelm's Light]

7 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Personally, I take those images as representing deities, not the usual everyday wear of their worshippers. Just as the Masks of the Gods in Pavis:GtA and the associated costumes are divine representations. There, the Goddess of Lust wears only a short cape, anklets and bracelets. [The goddess the Orlanthi identify as Uleria is on the bottom row, second from the right.]

 

Love Eurmal with the bunny ears...

[Haimji]

4 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Sorry to hear that. My 82 year old mum had a heart attack in June.

Sorry, is she fine now?

4 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Many of these costumes derived from court dress in the Late Roman Empire.

That's true ! And by the way, the official title of the pope is "maximus pontifex", the same as the former hight priest of Jupiter !

But it was court dress, not day to day dress. Event in late roman empire, priests wear another costume. So, my question stay : do you think an Ulerian wears something diffrerent in Temple and outside? I think yes, may be a more conservative dress outside (like p 244 for Pavis:GtA) and something more light (like in the paint you posted) inside.

4 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Which may be a 'local' style, derived from the fairly strict Yelmalion dress code. The Uleria temple in Pavis is in Sun Town...

yes, that's my question : do you think costumes can vary from country to another one? I can imagine barebreast in Esrolia, dressed in white or white and green in Sartar not barebreast but short dresses, and in Pavis, like page 244. Something official to confirm or infirm that?

[M Helsdon]

8 hours ago, Haimji said:

Sorry, is she fine now?

Numerous complications, I'm sad to say. Hope your father is okay.

8 hours ago, Haimji said:

So, my question stay : do you think an Ulerian wears something diffrerent in Temple and outside? I think yes, may be a more conservative dress outside (like p 244 for Pavis:GtA) and something more light (like in the paint you posted) inside.

I suspect that the costume varies both outside and in, with a different costume for each of the three 'aspects' inside a temple.

 

8 hours ago, Haimji said:

yes, that's my question : do you think costumes can vary from country to another one? I can imagine barebreast in Esrolia, dressed in white or white and green in Sartar not barebreast but short dresses, and in Pavis, like page 244. Something official to confirm or infirm that?

I believe it is inevitable that the regional costumes will vary. Uleria is a universal goddess, but her 'church' is not unified. I have only the speculations made earlier about the Esrolian costume: nothing canonical. Perhaps the forthcoming Notchet book will provide an answer, or jajagappa will post one here.

[jajagappa]

On 10/14/2016 at 3:12 PM, M Helsdon said:

Conversely, given that Esrolians aren't going to be shocked by Minoan styles, a Ulerian might 'cover up' in gauzy silks or linen, which both conceal and display.

I think this approach to Ulerians in Nochet/Esrolia makes sense.

[Haimji]

On 20/10/2016 at 10:21 AM, M Helsdon said:

Numerous complications, I'm sad to say. Hope your father is okay.

Thank you, he is better now.

I agree with both of you about Uleria in Esrolia/Nochet.