Advice for a new Keeper?

[rsanford]

Hi all,

In recent weeks my group has expressed interest in trying a game of Call of Cthulhu despite the fact that none of us have played the game or even read the stories the game is based on.  While I have only skimmed the rules they seem very similar to Stormbringer / Magic World (which is what we play) making me unconcerned about the mechanical aspects of the game.

However what does concern me is how to run the game successfully as I have never ran a game focused on horror.  I have already learned a lot from this site but would like your opinion on a few things. Also just so you know we play our games online using Mumble. I will be running a modified version of The Haunting.

1.     How do I make the players (not the characters) nervous or scared? In the Stormbringer game we play, the players play heroes. That works against me here because the players tend to be fearless.  I had thought I would introduce supernatural elements at the beginning of the CoC game and then work up towards real threats to their character’s lives, but I’m not sure that will be enough. Any thoughts?

2.     How do I make research and investigation interesting? For best results The Haunting requires the characters to do extensive research and investigation prior to going into the house. How do I keep the player’s interest? How do I make investigation and research challenging and/or interesting? Does it make sense to use some type social conflict system to model the research such as that used by Revolution D100 and M-Space?

3.     What is your opinion of using the new Delta Green’s sanity rules as opposed to CoC’s sanity rules? Which would encourage more roleplaying? Which do you think would be more fun?

4.     With the understanding that my group will be using pre-generated characters (Don’t want them to invest time into custom characters in their first likely deadly game), how can I best encourage roleplaying?

Thoughts are appreciated!

Thanks!

PS – My group plays online using Mumble for audio an RPOL for dice rolling.  While this has always worked for us I am concerned that it will impact my ability to describe a stern and scary atmosphere. Also I will be using the 6^th edition CoC rules.

[Jakob]

Short answer - longer maybe later - on question 1: Don't! It's not your job to scare the players. It's your job to create an atmosphere that allows the players to get scared if they want to. And it's the job of the whole group to maintan that atmosphere and enhance it. It's pretty hard (and also potentially irresponsible) to really scare people on a psychological level who don't want to be scared; but it is pretty easy to get into a scary mood together and feel a little thrill if everyone is on the same page about it. So pretty much all you have to do is to say: "Okay, so we're going to play a horror game, let's try to maintain the mood."

 

Short anwer to 3: I haven't tried the Delta Green sanity rules yet, but from what I've read, I'm pretty impressed with how they handle Bonds. I'd definitely give them a try if I was planning a campaign; for one-shots, probably not (since the best thing about them looks to be what happens with the PC's personal relationships between adventures).

[rsanford]

Thanks Jakob! I would still like to scare the players though if possible. This will be their first encounter with CoC and I want to make it traumatizing err memorable. I figure if I am unsuccessful scaring the players my efforts will still support the atmosphere of the game (I hope). 

[geraldfrench]

I like to include a few things to set the stage. I enjoy using a forest green table cloth, a creepy halloween skull, and halloween creepy life sized black cat. Also, I like to have on creepy music. Also, if you play the game by the rules, the players will quickly feel that they are outmatched and outgunned, which they are... and that will do wonders for the mood. When they know that their characters could possibly and most likely not live through the adventure...

[EricW]

Make them act out their madness - if one of them starts hallucinating or becomes paranoid after a mythos encounter, don't tell them "you're now afflicted with paranoia", describe the world as a paranoid would see it - "someone seems to be creeping up behind you, roll a spot hidden".

All their senses are twisted by their mental injury. Worse, they might start affecting other players with their paranoia, especially if you hint before the session that people who are exposed to Cthulhu mythos sometimes gain dark insights into the true nature of reality. Who knows what gruesome anti-social acts they might be tempted to perform, what division and distrust you can sow even between members of the party who normally cooperate - and what consequences the players will face, when the law finally catches up with their criminal reign of terror!

[rsanford]

15 hours ago, geraldfrench said:

Also, if you play the game by the rules, the players will quickly feel that they are outmatched and outgunned, which they are... and that will do wonders for the mood. When they know that their characters could possibly and most likely not live through the adventure...

That's true and I think I need to play it up as much as possible.  In our Stormbringer games the players are usually outmatched but it is SO much more true in this game. Thanks!

[rsanford]

7 hours ago, EricW said:

Make them act out their madness - if one of them starts hallucinating or becomes paranoid after a mythos encounter, don't tell them "you're now afflicted with paranoia", describe the world as a paranoid would see it - "someone seems to be creeping up behind you, roll a spot hidden".

All their senses are twisted by their mental injury. Worse, they might start affecting other players with their paranoia, especially if you hint before the session that people who are exposed to Cthulhu mythos sometimes gain dark insights into the true nature of reality. Who knows what gruesome anti-social acts they might be tempted to perform, what division and distrust you can sow even between members of the party who normally cooperate - and what consequences the players will face, when the law finally catches up with their criminal reign of terror!

WOW!  These are golden!  I just copied your suggestions into my notes.  I had already planned to ask players to act out certain hallucinations and such but I love the concept of the Keeper (me) helping them roleplay paranoia. I would have never thought of that...

 

[Spence]

Index cards and notes.  Secret notes. 

I like to use index cards to pass secret instructions to individual players.  Like EricW said, Instead of telling them they have paranoia, pass them a card saying that they are hearing noises like someone is following them.  When they look ask for the spot hidden.

I sometimes pass cards to players that say nothing. 

Pass a card to a player asking them to roll d100 in secret and write the result on the card and pass it back.  I can then nod, say thank you and do nothing.  That really gets the player paranoia boiling....

Never underestimate the power of the secret Keepers note!

 

[Darius West]

In answer to your specific questions:

1)  Fear is a response to a number of things... danger, unfamiliarity, a source of pain, abandonment, vulnerability etc.  One of the most primal is the sense that you are being stalked by something unknown.  Movement perceived from the corner of the eye, rustling in the bushes, creaking on the stairs, things go missing, all revealing nothing but prickles on the back of the neck and adrenaline butterflies in the stomach. Sun Tzu says:   

If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then even the deepest spy cannot discern it nor the wise make plans against it.

This is the use of the enemy's ignorance as a weapon against them.  But in C'thulhu, knowledge of the enemy can be just as dangerous as ignorance.  That's pretty scary, when your best weapon, knowledge, leads as certainly to your ultimate destruction as ignorance. 

The next thing is to properly understand the difference between fear and horror.  While horror has its foundation in fear, it is a knowing abhorrence of what you face.  Horror is when you understand that the thing you were afraid of is worse than you imagined and you are permanently tainted by association with it.  You build horror through suggestion and investigation, to quote Lovecraft:  

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. 

When the players begin to "correlate all the contents" and fit the jigsaw together, that is when the horror should kick in.

2)  This step is of primary importance.  You need to tell the players beforehand that CoC is a game about investigation,  and that if they fight monsters before they know how to beat them they are likely to die quickly and foolishly. Tell them that if they go into combat under-prepared against non-human enemies the fights are likely to be bad and one sided.  That gives investigation a purpose, you are building an arsenal of information.  Get players excited about chasing leads and clues.  Personally I love writing scenarios and when it comes to CoC I especially enjoy writing the handouts.  In fact I like them so much I have even written a mythos story in handout format a few years ago, and I have attached it for your perusal.

3) A measure of tolerance to frequent mythos encounters of the same creature is not impossible, in fact there is a precedent for it in the Lovecraft story "Dream Quest of the Unknown Kadath" wherein Randolph Carter begins to feel less disturbed by ghouls through frequent contact, and it has periodically been part of the CoC rules in the various Companions.  It is also acceptable for veterans to have an immunity to seeing dismembered human bodies.  Remember however that few people can ever get used to a creature that causes more than 1d8 SAN loss, and you never get used to seeing a creature that always causes SAN loss.

4) Generally a quick sit down Q&A session to discuss the character is enough to get a decent performance out of players if the background info for the character is not enough.  Let the players divide the characters up among themselves so they can at least choose a persona they like.

Papers pertaining to the disappearance of Mr. Richard Upton Pickman (Artist).pdf

[rsanford]

8 hours ago, Darius West said:

In answer to your specific questions:

1)  Fear is a response to a number of things... danger, unfamiliarity, a source of pain, abandonment, vulnerability etc.  One of the most primal is the sense that you are being stalked by something unknown.  Movement perceived from the corner of the eye, rustling in the bushes, creaking on the stairs, things go missing, all revealing nothing but prickles on the back of the neck and adrenaline butterflies in the stomach. Sun Tzu says:   

If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then even the deepest spy cannot discern it nor the wise make plans against it.

This is the use of the enemy's ignorance as a weapon against them.  But in C'thulhu, knowledge of the enemy can be just as dangerous as ignorance.  That's pretty scary, when your best weapon, knowledge, leads as certainly to your ultimate destruction as ignorance. 

The next thing is to properly understand the difference between fear and horror.  While horror has its foundation in fear, it is a knowing abhorrence of what you face.  Horror is when you understand that the thing you were afraid of is worse than you imagined and you are permanently tainted by association with it.  You build horror through suggestion and investigation, to quote Lovecraft:  

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. 

When the players begin to "correlate all the contents" and fit the jigsaw together, that is when the horror should kick in.

2)  This step is of primary importance.  You need to tell the players beforehand that CoC is a game about investigation,  and that if they fight monsters before they know how to beat them they are likely to die quickly and foolishly. Tell them that if they go into combat under-prepared against non-human enemies the fights are likely to be bad and one sided.  That gives investigation a purpose, you are building an arsenal of information.  Get players excited about chasing leads and clues.  Personally I love writing scenarios and when it comes to CoC I especially enjoy writing the handouts.  In fact I like them so much I have even written a mythos story in handout format a few years ago, and I have attached it for your perusal.

3) A measure of tolerance to frequent mythos encounters of the same creature is not impossible, in fact there is a precedent for it in the Lovecraft story "Dream Quest of the Unknown Kadath" wherein Randolph Carter begins to feel less disturbed by ghouls through frequent contact, and it has periodically been part of the CoC rules in the various Companions.  It is also acceptable for veterans to have an immunity to seeing dismembered human bodies.  Remember however that few people can ever get used to a creature that causes more than 1d8 SAN loss, and you never get used to seeing a creature that always causes SAN loss.

4) Generally a quick sit down Q&A session to discuss the character is enough to get a decent performance out of players if the background info for the character is not enough.  Let the players divide the characters up among themselves so they can at least choose a persona they like.

Papers pertaining to the disappearance of Mr. Richard Upton Pickman (Artist).pdf

Thanks Darius - this is good advice. Also I loved the PDF you uploaded. Perhaps I will turn it into a scenario for my group.

[Maddog]

A few suggestions for you which I have found helpful for my own game.

1) The game is yours, if you need to change how something works just do it. It only has to make sense to you. That being said, your players need to know the rules so keep them informed. IE I split Search in two, a Passive Search skill and an Active Spot skill. One is them trying to find something , the other is them incidentally noticing something. I also opened it up for other skills like Guns Akimbo, duel wielding pistols. Drunk fighting, etc. Usually the requisite NPC has a strange skill of some sort. 

2) It is really hard to instill actual Fear. Paranoia and a strong sense of self preservation are easy though.  I find that my group, which sounds similar to yours, started out being bold Heroes and are now paranoid shadows. They quickly found that when they kicked in the door and shot the thing a few times and nothing much happened......well, you know. They were used to Dnd where they could face anything, now they won't even look into deep pits or take any chances they dont have to. They have even abandoned their own mate when something attacked an isolated member in the dark. Very humbling lying in the dirt listening to your buddy getting eaten. In the dark. By a floating thing with no eyes.

3) I would definitely make them generate their own characters. If they have no personal investment in the char, they wont care if they die. They are several good autofill sheets which make it pretty slick. My guys actually find it to be a really enjoyable part of the game. It is , after all, the high point of their sanity.

4) Background audio does wonders. Having some creepy sounds going in the background makes a world of difference for the feel of the room. I recommend online radio. This works both ways, if they are in a 1920s harlem bar, they should be listening to the right music. If they are in a tentacly swamp....

5) Patience and anticipation. The best plot devices I have found are the short and long story arcs. The campaign should have a couple lines that develop really slowly and show only minimal progress (but it still must advance) . Each session should have some clear objective (in your mind) IE They need to survive the night and get out of the witch house with the ancient tome. I try to end my sessions with the PCs in a safe place where they can rest and lick their wounds. If I can hear them breath a sigh of relief as we wrap up , I know they have been tense and properly engaged. We play weekly so I want them to be thinking forward of their next objectives rather than wondering whether they are going to survive the night.

6) Always roll with it. My guys always find a way to go off in a completely unanticipated direction. They are all ADD as far as I can figure. Any little detail can suddenly become the pivotal clue which they must have immediately. Often it means that I throw away the Real clue and just use the one they fixated on to get to the same place. Or, they get some obvious hint like they walk into the cultists favourite bar and it is full.

7) Lovecraftian Resources. I would highly recommend listening to a bunch of audio books yourself and keeping your players completely ignorant of the mythos. That is where they are supposed to be at this stage. It is hard to fake having no idea what to do with a Fire Vampire.  There really is nothing like giving a thorough description of a critter to a guy and having them run though the list of options on how to kill it or how to get away from it while it is busily chewing up bystanders, the hotel lobby, and a few cars. Also, I am enjoying The Book of Cthulhu 2 , it gives an excellent perspective on how your sessions can be high action shoot run shoot, or cloak and dagger spy vs spy, or just flat out ghost stories. 

8) Get feedback. Get your players to tell you what they did/didnt like. I cant imagine that they wouldnt but I found bouncing the general feel and concept of the game around with my guys has helped get them more involved as well as controlled themes in the game itself. 

Oh, and I would go with 7e rather than 6th. Just my two cents

Good Luck !

 

 

 

 

[EricW]

One of the most terrifying movies I've ever seen is The Thing. There's a few utterly alien scenes with tentacles and grisly transformations, but the real terror is that nobody knows who is still human. The thing assumes the likenesses and behaviour of the people it infects - attacking people on a cellular level, until they are consumed and become a part of the alien menace. Nobody can trust anyone - someone trying to get you alone might be your friend trying to talk to you, to work out a plan to survive, or it could be the alien horror setting an ambush in the guise of someone you trust.

The setting is an isolated Antarctic base, so there is no getting away - in fact, some of the people on the base are determined nobody will get away, because if The Thing escapes it might destroy the world. The only reason the world wasn't destroyed 10s of thousands of years ago is The Thing crashed its starship in the Antarctic wilderness, and promptly froze solid. But now its loose again, and trying to find a way out - the fate of the world hangs by a thread.

Well worth watching, if you want some ideas on creating a setting of mind bending horror with a few simple props.

Edited January 6, 2017 by EricW
Added extra detail.

[rsanford]

Good ideas all!

We have played two short sessions of The Haunting so far and I figure the players still have another couple hours of play before there finished.

The first session was heavy on investigation and role play. The players enjoyed it (especially my wife who fancies herself a detective) but lamented the lack of action. In the second session they explored most of the house and are getting ready to go down to the basement. However, they are concerned that there is a ghost in the house and that they may not be able to do anything about it.  I keep reminding them their job is to investigate not necessarily solve the problem.

The good news is that they fear for the characters and they feel hopeless. The bad news is the same.  One of them is wondering why they are playing if there is no hope of winning (I did previously warn them about CoC in general).

Overall they seem to enjoy the game but prefer Stormbringer. As we progress we will see if I can change that a bit. I hope to run “Tell me, have you seen the yellow sign” next.

We play the next game Sunday. Will keep you all apprised.

[MOB]

A great video review of The Haunting here: 

 

[rsanford]

We have been playing this for the last couple weekends.  CoC is great!

[rsanford]

Hi all,

My group and I finished our first game of CoC last night. We played “The Haunting”. There were three players that ultimately played four characters (because one of the investigators fell off the second floor in a mishap with a bed J), a professor, occultist, reporter and surgeon.  A couple of highlights:

1.       When the professor made a small hole in the brick wall hiding Corbitt’s room and wiggled through I had the silver knife threaten him. He was hit a couple of times before he could wrestle it to the ground.

2.       When the investigators were just about to check out Corbitt’s body the newly possessed surgeon hit the occultist with a wood axe. At that point Corbitt stood up and began to attack the party. Pandemonium commenced.

Ultimately everyone survived without going insane. Great fun.  Next we are going to run the BRP scenario “In Search of the Troll Slayer”, and then in a month or two we will run “Tell Me, Have You See the Yellow Sign” in CoC.

PS - One of the players was put off, as she put it, by a lack of control in CoC. She said that in games like D&D and Stormbringer she always felt like she would come out on top no matter what the threat. In CoC she was constantly afraid her character was going to get killed through no fault of her own. As the Keeper I’m not sure if that is a problem or a feature J. Any thoughts on that?

[nclarke]

Typical reaction from a player who is not used to CoC. I won't say the whole point of a horror game is not to feel in control but it's really part of the genre. Give them dynamite and tommy guns and they'll feel in control mwahahahahahha. No, sorry, they'll only feel in control until the next big bad comes round the corner and they find out that dynamite and tommy guns avail them not but running like F*** is a big help. If the player persists in not being comfortable then I guess a horror game is not for them.

[rsanford]

3 minutes ago, nclarke said:

Typical reaction from a player who is not used to CoC. I won't say the whole point of a horror game is not to feel in control but it's really part of the genre. Give them dynamite and tommy guns and they'll feel in control mwahahahahahha. No, sorry, they'll only feel in control until the next big bad comes round the corner and they find out that dynamite and tommy guns avail them not but running like F*** is a big help. If the player persists in not being comfortable then I guess a horror game is not for them.

Yeah I plan to run CoC every three months or so until they get used to it or tell me to stop... In the interim I will have the party play some D&D modules using Magic World / Stormbringer rules. Shoot and loots are a lot easier for me to prepare for!

 

[mvincent]

1 hour ago, rsanford said:

One of the players was put off, as she put it, by a lack of control in CoC. She said that in games like D&D and Stormbringer she always felt like she would come out on top no matter what the threat. In CoC she was constantly afraid her character was going to get killed through no fault of her own. As the Keeper I’m not sure if that is a problem or a feature J. Any thoughts on that?

That sounds like an apt summation of CoC. Probably best to let players know ahead of time that "your character might get killed through no fault of your own".

[rsanford]

19 minutes ago, mvincent said:

That sounds like an apt summation of CoC. Probably best to let players know ahead of time that "your character might get killed through no fault of your own".

I warned them initially that the game is very deadly and that they should run if they encounter something they can't handle but they disregarded my advice.  I think they have played too much D&D.. I doubt they make that mistake twice. One of the characters was hospitalized by a bed...

[Umpherous Vermillion]

How to make scary and intrigue players?

1. Handouts.  You cannot underestimate the effect of hand-made handouts.  Even playing online, a well-crafted image can really create atmosphere. Like so:

2. Slow reveals. I learned this from a friend.  If you slow down the action and describe the horror in detail, then you increase the verisimilitude.  For example: "You open the bedroom door and see two sleeping figures under the covers in the sliver of light from the opened door.  One male; one female. You step in closer, careful not to make noise.  You pause to check if either is breathing... the male figure's torso rises and falls rhythmically.  You detect a faint rasp of breath.  But the female shape is stone still.  Taking one step closer, you note a circular discoloration around the female form.  Blood? 

[milkomix]

Hello all,

I'm a new keeper too and planning on running my own scenario with a couple of friends, who are actually familiar with roleplaying but new to the horror/investigation setting that is CoC. So I've created a mystery which is about a couple of WWI veterans who encountered a mythos site while digging in the front, and now they are being killed off by a curse because of that. The scenario is about tracking the lead guy, who is bent on returning to the site and perform a ritual to seal the place.

The thing is the game involves interviews, reading handouts (notebooks, medical records etc) and seeing crime scenes and eventually going to the site to perform the ritual, and there isn't much violence involved in the first two acts. The only real confrontations start at the third act in the town near the dig site where the population is tainted and are hostile to those who want to interfere with the god that is being reborn there.

Do you think I should put a couple more combat encounters in the first two acts? I'm worried about the pace and not sure if the players would like it if the only challenge is actually trying to solve the mystery. I ran a published scenario before and now know that the game runs a bit slow due to my players discussing the clues all the time, so I gather the two acts before the climax would take at least a couple of sessions. 

So long story short; what is the proper amount of violent encounters per session a CoC game needs to be fun and engaging. My scenario is a bit of a Film Noir and the crazy stuff comes in small doses (whispers, nightmares etc). Should I pump it up and show some monsters along the way?

Thanks in advance guys...

 

Edited February 23, 2017 by milkomix

[soltakss]

6 minutes ago, milkomix said:

The thing is the game involves interviews, reading handouts (notebooks, medical records etc) and seeing crime scenes and eventually going to the site to perform the ritual, and there isn't much violence involved in the first two acts. The only real confrontations start at the third act in the town near the dig site where the population is tainted and are hostile to those who want to interfere with the god that is being reborn there.

That is the classical way that CoC is done, however it is not the only way. Pulp CoC works well, for example.

 

Do you think I should put a couple more combat encounters in the first two acts? I'm worried about the pace and not sure if the players would like it if the only challenge is actually trying to solve the mystery. I ran a published scenario before and now know that the game runs a bit slow due to my players discussing the clues all the time, so I gather the two acts before the climax would take at least a couple of sessions. 

Don't forget that CoC combat can be quite deadly, so I would restrict the amount of gunplay. Have fist-fights and similar, in fact chasing heavies or being threatened by thugs can be fine for some kinds of CoC games. I'd have unarmed combat as being non-deadly, except for trained people, so you can be duffed up as many times as it makes sense, but it isn't going to kill you. That makes combat less dangerous.

 

So long story short; what is the proper amount of violent encounters per session a CoC game needs to be fun and engaging. My scenario is a bit of a Film Noir and the crazy stuff comes in small doses (whispers, nightmares etc). Should I pump it up and show some monsters along the way?

I wouldn't show monsters until they are really necessary. CoC is not a "Oh look, there is a Deep One" kind of a game. Monsters are supposed to be scary and distort your view of reality. Instead, use cultists, helpers and hangers-on to build up the tension.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nclarke]

None. Basically CoC is about investigating mysterious things and involves searching for clues to unravel the mystery. It's not about getting into fights as usually you die horribly when attempting to fight anything other than human cultists. The characters can have any amount of dynamite and tommy guns but that will not be of assistance in discovering what the mystery is. CoC is all about creepy things going on, finding out what is causing said creepy things and then not being able to do much about it. You can't tell the authorities or you are likely to be locked up as insane.

The better sessions do not involve actually showing the monster, more describing it's effects or what has happened when the investigators come along later (note that word Investigator, it means you investigate not that you move from fight to fight).

If you want to move your players along then put them under time pressure so they don't sit around discussing clues. Have things happen according to a time line that doesn't depend on the Investigators. A happens and the investigators start investigating. If they sit around then B happens and C happens and before they know it things have gone to shit and the world ends because they did nothing. Keep interjecting things that have happened to friends and people they love if they won't get off their butts and actually investigate proactively.

[milkomix]

Thanks for the help. I guess what triggered my concern was reading the a couple of published scenarios, most of them have a number of combat encounters scattered along the way. Compared to my game they seem to have angry farmers, crazed sheriffs, several cultists, thugs, magic users and such, which is a bit too much if you ask me. But I guess I can grab a couple of guys from the tainted town I created to follow my players, perhaps trying to disrupt the investigation. That would provide me with a possible chase, a brawl and a likely prisoner to compromise for the clues which my guys would definitely miss : )

I also have a question about the interviews; I have several people with important information to give, but first they need to be asked about a precise topic. I cannot see how a roll would affect this interview since all it takes is to be know what to inquire for, and if the player cannot come up with the topic, no roll should be able help her to get that information. Is there a mechanic for that? Or do you just provide the question if, say, a player succeeds with a charm roll or something?