Swords of Central Genertela

[Sir_Godspeed]

8 hours ago, Joerg said:

Or they have some rope tack attached to the head of the llamas using some of their considerable neck musculature (at least if their bulls use similar dominance struggles like giraffe bulls) to give them an extra pull when leaping up. A service you really can expect after spending considerable time gathering browsable leaves etc. on foot to feed to your rather picky mounts.

The llamas aren't browsers?

[jajagappa]

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

A service you really can expect after spending considerable time gathering browsable leaves etc. on foot to feed to your rather picky mounts.

No big deal.  You just raid the Morocanth and steal some of their herd men.  Then have the herd men gather the leaves, and you never have to leave your mount!

[Joerg]

11 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Sadly, when used in the rough two-part spread, the bison looks messily drawn, so whilst the current one is usable as a spot illo, it will have to be redrawn (having not drawn for decades am rediscovering techniques...) The Praxian bison may look more like a bison priscus, even larger, so that may be another reason to redraw it.

I was wondering why you would choose so small bisons, anyway. My hometown Kiel doesn't have a zoo, but it has a couple of public parks where animals are kept, and one of those has three largish areas with small family groups of Heck cattle (cattle bred to look somewhat like their wild aurochs ancestors),  wisent (European bison) and bison, and I (nearly 2m tall) would have their shoulders more or less on my eye level. The (immense) Asian rhinos of Munich zoo didn't strike me as quite as tall, observed from a similar distance.

[Joerg]

6 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

The llamas aren't browsers?

In the savannah of Genert's Garden, they used to be. The image of High Llama riders picking soft leaves between the strawy grass of dried river bottoms and holding them up to be browsed on was planted in my memory by Sandy Petersen.

[M Helsdon]

On this forum - the beasts are said to be too small, on another too large...

The sizes I am using are (all measurement to shoulder):

Rhino 1.8–2 m
Bison 1.7-1.8m (hump increases this) - Update - Bison Priscus/Praxus was larger, and some had really big horns.
Sable Antelope 1.17-1.43m (but Praxian are horse-sized)
Zebra 1.17-1.43m (but war zebra are larger)
Impala 0.75–0.92m
High Lllama 2.3-3.5m (depending upon species of Aepycamelus. Aepycamelus Major, the largest, seems to have had a shoulder height of 4m! )

Tomorrow I need to think about the saddle and harness, and the rider for this bison.

Edited January 5, 2019 by M Helsdon

[Sir_Godspeed]

There's probably no pleasing everybody when it comes to animal sizes, as we've got different proportions in mind. It's a good thing these animals do vary in size, so even if people disagree with the illustrated individual's size, they can write it off as a particularly large/small specimen. Just my two cents.

[M Helsdon]

Bison finally finished, delayed by proofreading. Thought people might be amused by the three stages: bison; bison with harness; bison with rider.

Unfortunately, playing with the double page spread, find that it is impractical to have all the Praxian beasts unless I severely reduce the scale, so the final will probably feature bison, rhino and high llama, and sable if there's space.

[M Helsdon]

And the high llama (with two riders) is 'complete'. Just adjusted the picture balance of the bison, rhino and high llama, and they are now ready to be merged for a two-page spread (tomorrow).

Rough for assessing positions below (may change a little).

Edited January 12, 2019 by M Helsdon

[womble]

Now that looks real nice.

Not casting any doubt: I haven't seen a reference to a pillion Llama rider... where's that from? Is it the default arrangement, or a 'special case'?

[M Helsdon]

31 minutes ago, womble said:

Now that looks real nice.

Not casting any doubt: I haven't seen a reference to a pillion Llama rider... where's that from? Is it the default arrangement, or a 'special case'?

Not default, but not unlikely, given the size of the animal, and its carrying capacity, given in the Bestiary.

For a canon illustration - see 'The Glorantha Sourcebook' page 27.

Doubling up gave me an opportunity to give two different tribal costumes/armour, and also up the percentage of female illustrations, which is a bit too low. I gave the 'passenger' a saddle as it seemed a sensible thing to use.

Edited January 12, 2019 by M Helsdon

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

For a canon illustration - see 'The Glorantha Sourcebook' page 27.

Interesting!  I totally missed that little picture!  But it opens up a whole new dimension of High Llama combat.

Of course, it expands the target for the pesky Impala Riders, or gives even more reason to bring down the beast and take out two High Llama Riders at one go.

[soltakss]

17 hours ago, womble said:

I haven't seen a reference to a pillion Llama rider... where's that from? Is it the default arrangement, or a 'special case'?

It makes sense for Rhino Riders as well, imagine a Rhino Charge with 2 lances per Rhino!

[M Helsdon]

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Interesting!  I totally missed that little picture!  But it opens up a whole new dimension of High Llama combat.

Very sad, but I've taken to analyzing in detail canonical illustrations to find details such as this.

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Of course, it expands the target for the pesky Impala Riders, or gives even more reason to bring down the beast and take out two High Llama Riders at one go.

True.

7 hours ago, soltakss said:

It makes sense for Rhino Riders as well, imagine a Rhino Charge with 2 lances per Rhino!

Whilst I suspect a rhino could carry two riders, I don't believe that two lancers would be practical - too much chance of the lances getting in each other's way.

Been fighting Word this evening to remove 'background' and puzzling why it then formats the text the way it does, but this is what the two page spread looks like - so far. Some of the picture missing, and odd text formatting - the eternal battle continues...

Version without text wrapping also shown.

Edited January 13, 2019 by M Helsdon

[soltakss]

28 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Whilst I suspect a rhino could carry two riders, I don't believe that two lancers would be practical - too much chance of the lances getting in each other's way.

That's what Lefters are for - A Lance on each side, one held RH and one LH, aiiming at the same target. Simples.

[M Helsdon]

6 minutes ago, soltakss said:

That's what Lefters are for - A Lance on each side, one held RH and one LH, aiiming at the same target. Simples.

I strongly suspect that most left handed babies either die or are considered to have a draconic taint.

[Sir_Godspeed]

It would probably be more useful to have some kind of short-range combatant there, armed with a slashing weapon - to drive off those who would try to take advantage of the rhino's (relatively) slow speed, and poor maneuverability.

[womble]

8 hours ago, soltakss said:

That's what Lefters are for - A Lance on each side, one held RH and one LH, aiiming at the same target. Simples.

Apart from the difficulty of training two spears on the same target with the body of the pilot and bulk of the steed in the way of the second spear, the only target they could both aim at is the one that doesn't need any extra killing, because it's directly in front of a rampaging Rhino...

I think the pillion would be best armed with a bow or javelins. And maybe even sat facing the rear...

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by womble

[M Helsdon]

A few hours wrestling Word, and I get roughly what I was aiming for...

[M Helsdon]

Sable Tribe rider drawn, but the full-sized one requires shading, tomorrow...

[Brootse]

What a great thread! Gorgeous pics!

[soltakss]

4 hours ago, Brootse said:

What a great thread! Gorgeous pics!

Yes, I agree. Martin doesn't think so, as he is enormously self-critical, but we know better.

[Atgxtg]

On 1/16/2019 at 6:50 AM, Brootse said:

What a great thread! Gorgeous pics!

Yeah, and the style fits with the reference book nature of the project, too. 

[Atgxtg]

On 1/13/2019 at 4:57 PM, soltakss said:

That's what Lefters are for - A Lance on each side, one held RH and one LH, aiiming at the same target. Simples.

Not so simple. For one thing, on horse you have to go cross body with a lance charge to keep from dislocating your shoulder, and I don't think that could be done with two riders. Then there are the saddles to consider. I could see the first rider being pushed back and hitting the lance of the second rider upon impact.

If the lead rider should get unhorsed, he has a very good chance of taking out the second one. And, if the second rider did manage to stay on, how could he control the rhino?

Then there are the drawbacks on multiple impacts. Basically, the force and energy of the charge would be divided between two lances inside to being concentrated on only one, so the damage would end up being less. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Atgxtg

[Baelor]

Loving all of these!!

 

[M Helsdon]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 4:31 PM, soltakss said:

Yes, I agree. Martin doesn't think so, as he is enormously self-critical, but we know better.

Thank you, but you don't see how many sketches get binned... I attempt to draw faces and hands first, and if they go wrong, start over.

In future probably won't 'paint' so much shading in. Made more difficult by the fact that the screens of my laptop and desktop give different resolution of shading.

This Sable Tribe warrior is wearing a modified Lunar cavalry helmet, kopis and linothorax (not very visible). These items may have been obtained from the Lunars, or taken as spoils of war.

Edited January 17, 2019 by M Helsdon