Swords of Central Genertela

[M Helsdon]

Dagger-axe added, and sagaris altered per comments from Jan Pospíšil.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

A: Rapiers – both duelist weapons.

B: Daggers - from top to bottom: two Sartarite daggers (second inlaid with a hunting scene); two Esrolian daggers; a Western style dagger.

C: Daggers – from top to bottom: Dara Happan; two Lunar daggers; Sairdite Solar dagger; Grazelander dagger (with an Orlanthi style blade).

 

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

Some armour this time...

Body Armor

A: Plate armor

1.        Dara Happan muscle cuirass with plate shoulder-flaps and gorget.

2.        Holy Country muscle cuirass.

3.        Pelorian Barbarian Belt cuirass with fixed gorget.

4.        Orlanthi cuirass with gorget and hinged groin-flap.

5-6. Orlanthi articulated cuirasses with spaulders and gorgets.

7.        Orlanthi cuirass with articulated plates and pauldrons, and a tall gorget to protect the throat and lower face.

B: Scale armor

1.        Light scale hauberk with reinforced shoulder-flaps and leather pteruges.

2.        Praxian lamellar hauberk, made of plates of horn on a leather backing with a leather fringe.

3.        Orlanthi heavy scale hauberk with leather pteruges.

4.        Grazelander or Pentan scale hauberk with sleeves, worn with a war belt of metal plates.

5.        Grazelander scale coat with a war belt decorated with two Sun Horses.

6.        Orlanthi long scale hauberk with a metal and leather war belt.

7.        Darjiini long scale hauberk worn with a small pectoral bearing the symbol of Alkoth.

C: Triple-disk cuirasses and Pectorals

1.        Pelorian triple-disk cuirass.

2.        Ornate Lunar triple-disk cuirass depicting the head of the Red Goddess.

3.        Lasadag Lions officer’s pectoral depicting Karndasal.

4.        Lunar officer’s ‘undress’ Polaris pectoral.

5.        Holy Country militia plate pectoral.

D: Composite armor

1.        Linothorax of linen and tooled leather from Mo Baustra, with decorated pteruges.

2.        Lunar Linothorax of linen and scale, with an embroidered design of the Red Emperor in the guise of Yelm the Archer.

3.        Ring mail hauberk with leather pteruges.

4.        Tarsh Exiles hauberk fashioned from plates of cuir boilli with heavy leather pteruges.

5.        Yeloranan hemithorakion half-cuirass worn over a scale hauberk with leather shoulder-flaps and pteruges skirt.

6.        Turtle-shell cuirass – used in the Holy Country and by initiates of Hiia Swordsman.

7.        A rare and expensive chain mail hauberk probably manufactured by dwarves, with short leather pteruges.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[hkokko]

Are you considering any Pamaltelan weapons - for example Fonritan area.

[M Helsdon]

2 hours ago, hkokko said:

Are you considering any Pamaltelan weapons - for example Fonritan area.

Not at the moment. Due to events, I've been working on this illustration since January...

[g33k]

18 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Not at the moment. Due to events, I've been working on this illustration since January...

Well, it's extraordinary!

[M Helsdon]

Maces...

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[Runeblogger]

I love it. 

[Steve]

Great work, Martin.

[soltakss]

Good Humakti everywhere will be in uproar over the inclusion of maces in an article about swords.

[M Helsdon]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

Good Humakti everywhere will be in uproar over the inclusion of maces in an article about swords.

It seemed unreasonable to start a new topic for armor, axes and maces.... 8-)

[Mankcam]

Is there any way the thread could just be re-titled to be 'Weapons of Glorantha"?

 

[JanPospisil]

Nice, love the maces. Can say these seem to be very persistent designs in those parts of Glorantha (period-wise). (Grazelands and Zarkosites especially)  

Now, I realize I'm responding to old posts, but still:

1) Loskalmi swords in the Guide were indeed based on Chinese warring states period swords. (more amusingly - also on some fakes from that period, the perforated ornate scabbards I think were fake pieces I downloaded off eBay)

2) The longsword carried by the Western peacock warrior is an embellished version of what some experts call the Sarmatian type A sword. These things originally spread from China westwards, coinciding with the spread of the scabbard slide into the steppes. You can see them in various steppe depictions, also in older Parthian and Kushan art.

As in the illustration, these would've been made of iron. The fittings could be bronze, gold, ivory, or maybe even jade. (this was the case in China, maybe they could be Kralorelan imports?)

Examples: the Kanishka statue: (Kushans are a good visual reference point for the West, what with being a whole hodgepodge of cultures. (near-Chinese steppe people, North Indian and Greek and Scythian)

 

And this relief of Nergal from Hatra:

 

3) Some new material - this could be a sword of a powerful Vingkotling Orlanthi. (notice the thunderbolt forming the handle)

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by JanPospisil

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, JanPospisil said:

Examples: the Kanishka statue: (Kushans are a good visual reference point for the West, what with being a whole hodgepodge of cultures. (near-Chinese steppe people, North Indian and Greek and Scythian)

And this relief of Nergal from Hatra:

I love the photos, thanks for sharing them.

Edited July 29, 2017 by soltakss

[Joerg]

I'm still pondering the inherent contradiction of a horse-headed mace. The Alkothi with their underworld origin are fine equipped with maces, but why would a pure sky culture like the Grazers make a weapon of Darkness, and couple it with the head of their treasured sky-descended horse (which they have been breeding back to more celestial features for ages)?

Who among the Grazers would wield a mace? They have a shamanic brotherhood around Golden Bow. Bow and lance are their weapons of choice.

A purely ceremonial staff with a horse-headed knob on the end doesn't have to be a mace, or a weapon at all.

 

[M Helsdon]

52 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Who among the Grazers would wield a mace?

 

Maces are highly effective against a foe lacking a helmet (especially a cavalryman bashing a non-mounted adversary on the head), or a foe wearing heavy armor. Whilst weapons in Glorantha have Elemental associations, I doubt this limits their use (cf Shargashi and maces when Shargash's Runes are Disorder, Sky/Fire, Death and his own Rune).

And of course, an individual can have Runes that aren't common in their culture. The reason for the inclusion, out-of-world, is that maces were popular with cataphracti.

Edited July 29, 2017 by M Helsdon

[JanPospisil]

Maces like these were fairly popular in the inspiration cultures - various steppe people and I also think the Hittites. 

I suspect they don't think of them as maces, but rather as blunt axes, since their piercing axe is quite close in shape. Some Sun riders also use horse-shaped whooping sticks for ritualized mock battles supposed to intimidate your enemy (or neighbour), displays of might by the warriors. The maces could be a battle version of those.

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

I'm still pondering the inherent contradiction of a horse-headed mace. The Alkothi with their underworld origin are fine equipped with maces, but why would a pure sky culture like the Grazers make a weapon of Darkness, and couple it with the head of their treasured sky-descended horse (which they have been breeding back to more celestial features for ages)?

Who among the Grazers would wield a mace? They have a shamanic brotherhood around Golden Bow. Bow and lance are their weapons of choice.

A purely ceremonial staff with a horse-headed knob on the end doesn't have to be a mace, or a weapon at all.

 

Because one of their Gods stole the mace from a darkness foe?

Maran Gor uses maces for that exact reason.

Lances are fine for distance but useless up close, whereas a mace is perfect for hitting footsoldiers on the head while sitting on a horse.

In any case, some weapons are culturally good or bad, regardless of how useful they are. Maces for solar cultists seem to fit in that category, so we need a mythical explanation as to why they are used.

[soltakss]

I am not at all sure about the ears on the phallic lodrili mace. Maybe they have different shaped phalluses ...

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, JanPospisil said:

I suspect they don't think of them as maces, but rather as blunt axes

They are clearly Scepters of Order and Command, used to teach the denizens of the lower realms their proper place (as when Murharzarm broke the teeth of the water serpent with one in GRoY).

[M Helsdon]

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

I am not at all sure about the ears on the phallic lodrili mace. Maybe they have different shaped phalluses ...

Almost all the maces illustrated are based on real ones, including this one...

I admit I looked at it, and thought: hmm, this looks Lodrilli...

Edited July 29, 2017 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

It might be worth considering the use of weapons by different Gloranthan cultures, where some aren't connected with the Runes of the relevant religion... 'Favored Weapon' does not indicate these are the only weapons used by that group, just the most likely. So many groups use spears or swords, even if their religion isn't a Sky or Air cult (though of course there may be a mythological rationale that the god stole it from another). There's some Runic correspondence, but it is far from absolute.

Favored Weapons

Group	Primary	Secondary	Tertiary
Black Horse Troop
Ridderan	Kontos	Sword	Dagger
Grazelanders
Golden Bow	Composite Bow	Kontos	Broadsword
Grazelander	Kontos	Composite Bow	Broadsword
Hsunchen
Basmoli	Bow	Spear	Dagger
Telmori	Javelin	Spear	Short Sword
Orlanthi
Dark Orlanthi	Club or Mace	Sling	Javelin
Earth Tarsh	Spear	Axe	Bow
Light Orlanthi	Bow	Sword	Spear
Old Hendriki	Spear	Sword	Javelin or Sling
Sword Orlanthi	Spear	Sword	Javelin
Tarshite	Spear	Short Sword	Bow
Yelmalion	Bow	Long Spear	Javelin
Praxians
Bison	Lance	Sword	Javelin
Bolo-Lizard	Bolas	Spear	Dagger
High Llama	Lance	Javelin	Broadsword
Impala	Composite bow	Darts	Short sword
Ostrich	Boomerang	Javelin/ Spear	Short sword
Pol-Joni	Lance	Sword	Bow
Rhino	Lance	Axe	Mace
Sable	Any	Any	Any
Unicorn	Composite bow	Sword	Lance
Zebra	Composite bow	Lance	Sword
Sun Dome Temple
Militia	Spear	Bow	Short sword
Templar	Sarissa	Bow	Short sword

[Mankcam]

14 hours ago, JanPospisil said:

Now, I realize I'm responding to old posts, but still:

1) Loskalmi swords in the Guide were indeed based on Chinese warring states period swords. (more amusingly - also on some fakes from that period, the perforated ornate scabbards I think were fake pieces I downloaded off eBay)

2) The longsword carried by the Western peacock warrior is an embellished version of what some experts call the Sarmatian type A sword. These things originally spread from China westwards, coinciding with the spread of the scabbard slide into the steppes. You can see them in various steppe depictions, also in older Parthian and Kushan art.

As in the illustration, these would've been made of iron. The fittings could be bronze, gold, ivory, or maybe even jade. (this was the case in China, maybe they could be Kralorelan imports?)

Examples: the Kanishka statue: (Kushans are a good visual reference point for the West, what with being a whole hodgepodge of cultures. (near-Chinese steppe people, North Indian and Greek and Scythian)

I really like the ancient-world flavour that is presented for the Malkioni these days, it feels so much more consistent with the rest of Glorantha than the earlier medieval-styled Malkioni.

I have been looking for visual analogies to present the Malkioni to my players, and have tended to mix a hodgepodge of pics from early Byzantine Empire through to Indo-Asian cultures like The Kushan Empire. I'm glad you cemented the Kushans as a good reference, as I have been leaning more in that direction recently, trying to work out what cultures may have influenced your depictions in the G2G.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Mankcam

[M Helsdon]

Deleted.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by M Helsdon

[Jon Hunter]

On 29/07/2017 at 7:38 PM, M Helsdon said:

It might be worth considering the use of weapons by different Gloranthan cultures, where some aren't connected with the Runes of the relevant religion... 'Favored Weapon' does not indicate these are the only weapons used by that group, just the most likely. So many groups use spears or swords, even if their religion isn't a Sky or Air cult (though of course there may be a mythological rationale that the god stole it from another). There's some Runic correspondence, but it is far from absolute.

Favored Weapons

Group	Primary	Secondary	Tertiary
Black Horse Troop
Ridderan	Kontos	Sword	Dagger
Grazelanders
Golden Bow	Composite Bow	Kontos	Broadsword
Grazelander	Kontos	Composite Bow	Broadsword
Hsunchen
Basmoli	Bow	Spear	Dagger
Telmori	Javelin	Spear	Short Sword
Orlanthi
Dark Orlanthi	Club or Mace	Sling	Javelin
Earth Tarsh	Spear	Axe	Bow
Light Orlanthi	Bow	Sword	Spear
Old Hendriki	Spear	Sword	Javelin or Sling
Sword Orlanthi	Spear	Sword	Javelin
Tarshite	Spear	Short Sword	Bow
Yelmalion	Bow	Long Spear	Javelin
Praxians
Bison	Lance	Sword	Javelin
Bolo-Lizard	Bolas	Spear	Dagger
High Llama	Lance	Javelin	Broadsword
Impala	Composite bow	Darts	Short sword
Ostrich	Boomerang	Javelin/ Spear	Short sword
Pol-Joni	Lance	Sword	Bow
Rhino	Lance	Axe	Mace
Sable	Any	Any	Any
Unicorn	Composite bow	Sword	Lance
Zebra	Composite bow	Lance	Sword
Sun Dome Temple
Militia	Spear	Bow	Short sword
Templar	Sarissa	Bow	Short sword

Not sure if you were looking for feedback/polite disagreement; but a couple of points.

1) Light Orlanthi would probably use a spear more commonly than a sword due to cost and expense of a sword.

2) Sword Orlanthi probably would use the sword before spear due to the prestige of the expensive sword that they have, and as its a warriors weapon rather than a common weapon.