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M Helsdon

Swords of Central Genertela

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Have spent the day roughing out four new sketches:

  • Irillo Hundred militia infantryman (unfortunately the book doesn't detail any such regiments - perhaps @jajagappa knows of one?)
  • An officer of the Feathered Axe
  • Hilton warrior (of Hilltown - Greg seems to have intentionally used the name Hilton in every draft Army List I've seen)
  • A bull-riding warrior from Charg (I know there are Bull Lords there once it is freed of the Ban, so hopefully bull-riders aren't impossible).

May start sketching tomorrow...

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1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

Irillo Hundred militia infantryman (unfortunately the book doesn't detail any such regiments - perhaps @jajagappa knows of one?)

I do! And can even tell you all of those from Nochet (there are other units in other cities of course). 😉

Nochet has eight militia regiments, the Irillo Hundreds, each raised from a particular district of the city, though occasionally incorporating an ethnic or status group. They consist of 2 regiments of heavy cavalry (the well-trained Gold Racers from Nolerian and the largely untrained levy that is the Green Horses from Dearno), 5 regiments of heavy infantry (4 regular units: the Blackpoints of Deresagar, the Copper Axe of Tendayvora, the Rain Blades of Helamta, and the Flamespears of Kalava; and the levy of Sarli that comprises the Wild Ones), and 1 regiment of light infantry (the Quick Arrows from Tershis).

The local free men bring what weapons and armor they own or their house provides (in accordance with their regiment): usually axe or spear and shield, or bow, sling, and javelin.  In emergencies, the cities traditionally provide a shield, leather helmet, club or spear for those too poor to provide their own. It is considered a sign of a poor house if they cannot meet their obligation of militiamen or adequately equip them. 
1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

Hilton warrior (of Hilltown - Greg seems to have intentionally used the name Hilton in every draft Army List I've seen)

Interesting. Definitely evolved to Hilltown.  My guess is that they have good pieces of dwarf-forged armor, perhaps even some type of chainmail or plate armor.

1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

A bull-riding warrior from Charg (I know there are Bull Lords there once it is freed of the Ban, so hopefully bull-riders aren't impossible).

Sounds good to me!

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1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Nochet has eight militia regiments, the Irillo Hundreds, each raised from a particular district of the city, though occasionally incorporating an ethnic or status group. They consist of 2 regiments of heavy cavalry (the well-trained Gold Racers from Nolerian and the largely untrained levy that is the Green Horses from Dearno), 5 regiments of heavy infantry (4 regular units: the Blackpoints of Deresagar, the Copper Axe of Tendayvora, the Rain Blades of Helamta, and the Flamespears of Kalava; and the levy of Sarli that comprises the Wild Ones), and 1 regiment of light infantry (the Quick Arrows from Tershis).

That's very useful: thank you.

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

The local free men bring what weapons and armor they own or their house provides (in accordance with their regiment): usually axe or spear and shield, or bow, sling, and javelin.  In emergencies, the cities traditionally provide a shield, leather helmet, club or spear for those too poor to provide their own. It is considered a sign of a poor house if they cannot meet their obligation of militiamen or adequately equip them. 

My rough has: square bronze chest plate/pectoral, open helmet (was going with a boars' teeth helmet, but could change to cuir bouilli), square shield, axe (only haft visible), spear and javelin.

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Interesting. Definitely evolved to Hilltown.  My guess is that they have good pieces of dwarf-forged armor, perhaps even some type of chainmail or plate armor.

Sources say: highly quality weapons, no dwarven armor. So the rough has a spear with a long leaf-shaped (probably steel) blade and a very high quality sword.

Edited by M Helsdon
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Latest.

Damn. Still leaves me with a quarter of a page of white space at the end of the chapter (instead of a third)...

feathered axe forum.png

Edited by M Helsdon
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How about filling it with some shield designs? I’m thinking of the sort of art Greeks used, which seems to chime with the new style of images for the Gloranthan gods. 

I must complement you the great work you’ve done so far. I wouldn’t know it’s not professional. 

Edited by Cloud64
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31 minutes ago, Cloud64 said:

How about filling it with some shield designs? I’m thinking of the sort of art Greeks used, which seems to chime with the new style of images for the Gloranthan gods. 

I have a half a page of shield designs (done about two years ago). Other designs appear as part of many of the sketches.

31 minutes ago, Cloud64 said:

I must complement you the great work you’ve done so far. I wouldn’t know it’s not professional. 

Thank you.

shield page.png

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I wonder, has anyone asked if you could turn that amazing pen of yours to Sartarite tattoos? As it has come up a few times,  I am sure much more that a Orlanthi All  would be incredible happy to see them. Being small they could be wonderful corner fillers, chapter headers, footnotes or page headers for layout and design purposes..

Cheers

Edited by Bill the barbarian

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21 hours ago, Cloud64 said:

Ah. I’d not seen that.  

There have been bits and pieces 'out in the wild' but there's lots that haven't (380 pages reformatted to Letter layout size).

17 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Banners? Masks? Some other creative symbol just to fill some space?

At the moment am working on a sketch of an Esrolian militiaman.

16 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I wonder, has anyone asked if you could turn that amazing pen of yours to Sartarite tattoos? As it has come up a few times,  I am sure much more that a Orlanthi All  would be incredible happy to see them. Being small they could be wonderful corner fillers, chapter headers, footnotes or page headers for layout and design purposes..

No; at the moment am concentrating on filling as much white space as possible with sketches of people with arms & armor. I have the one currently worked on, and two more roughed out. Whilst it isn't exactly a canonical comment, before starting to draw these 70+ figures hadn't realized just how diverse the cultures in central Genertela are. The Lunar Army especially, is not a homogeneous force. There's a massive amount of regional and chronological variation (with rare exceptions, units do not appear to 'upgrade' or alter their traditional weaponry and way of fighting, because to do so would degrade their combat effectiveness, because in Glorantha everything is inherently magical, so, for example, a Stonewall Phalanx has to fight as hoplites, not as Yelmalion phalangites).

Edited by M Helsdon

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51 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I just realized that there is a fine line with realizing the Minoan influences of Esrolia without making them seem too primitive next to the Alexandrine hoplites.

This one is a mixture of Iron Age southern Italic, and Bronze Age Cretan and Anatolian. This militiaman is obviously quite wealthy (or belongs to a wealthy House) as he has a bronze helmet and pectoral, and a sword. Poorer militiamen have to make-do with leather armor.

This is the fourth Esrolian sketch - the trireme captain, Kimantoring and Axe Maiden have much better armor. 

Haven't sketched any Lunar militia because I don't know much about their equipment, and they generally don't exist prior to 1625... but they would probably have a similar level of equipment, albeit in a different style. Hoplite/thane armor tends to be 'top of the range'.

This sketch completes the chapter it resides in - only about six empty lines left.

It may be worth comparing this Esrolian with his Sartarite 'equivalent' (who is lucky to own a piece of heirloom armor).

militia.png

Edited by M Helsdon
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Not quite finished, but today a Wilktar tribesman of the Hilton (Hilltown) 'regiment' has been sketched. However, need to add a design to his shield, and not certain of a likely Imetherite design.

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2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

There's a couple. 🙂

 

Move over M Helsdon, looks to me like you have some competition. :)
Thanks anyway about the tattoos, If they don't fit, it looks like you have enough work without adding more. 

Cheers

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7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Actually a more likely one is that of Jannisor - the canonical Imtherian hero (or possibly an image of his shield Brighteye).

Looking through the New Lolan Gospel, the knot of Jannisor is a possibility, perhaps combined with an eye.

Thank you for the input.

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On 6/12/2019 at 2:40 AM, M Helsdon said:

Latest. Appears in the book as a half page illustration.

Tomorrow will be spent checking and updating the document, and on Thursday will probably convert it from A4 to 'Letter' which will probably mess up the layout... Will have to see if that offers any room for more sketches.

 

landholder forum.png

Hi Helsdon.

I only just took a look through this thread, given it says 22 pages 😛

I love your artwork, and it amazes me... !!! I wish I could draw that well!

I've been having this thought as I've been reading through the Guide Vol 1, and looking a the pics in there... most people are apparently right-handed, but they keep having characters drawn with swords on their right side - as yours above... this doesn't make sense to me - especially this guy, as he's clearly right-handed... drawing the sword is going to be really difficult - unless drawn backwards. Either that, or he'll have to change it around after an upward draw (or, a really long, awkward straight draw upwards_). Drawing across the body from L to R is much easier (although, obviously, it would hide the sword on this picture).

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2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I love your artwork, and it amazes me... !!! I wish I could draw that well!

You think that, I think that, almost everyone on this thread thinks that. The only person who doesn't think that is Martin Helsdon.

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19 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Actually a more likely one is that of Jannisor - the canonical Imtherian hero (or possibly an image of his shield Brighteye).

And here we are, a member of the Hilton (sic) militia. Decided to make the shield design asymmetrical, so Brighteye is depicted only once, and the runes are, of course, those of Jannisor. Whilst looking for depictions of ancient warriors, came across one with leather leg straps, and thought I'd steal it.

For variety, chose to use a non-round shield-shape.

His weapons, spear and sword (not visible on his left hip) are of the best quality Dwarven manufacture.

This one was a bit of an experiment: white pen used in drawing the fur in addition to the black pen.

16 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Move over M Helsdon, looks to me like you have some competition. :)
Thanks anyway about the tattoos, If they don't fit, it looks like you have enough work without adding more. 

As the Hilton appear in the Lunar Army List (though I suspect with the chaos in Imther after 1625, doubt they actually serve with the Provincial Army, and before that, the king kept them back to guard his capital), I decided that the runes of Orlatio might not be politic.

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I've been having this thought as I've been reading through the Guide Vol 1, and looking a the pics in there... most people are apparently right-handed, but they keep having characters drawn with swords on their right side - as yours above... this doesn't make sense to me - especially this guy, as he's clearly right-handed... drawing the sword is going to be really difficult - unless drawn backwards. Either that, or he'll have to change it around after an upward draw (or, a really long, awkward straight draw upwards_). Drawing across the body from L to R is much easier (although, obviously, it would hide the sword on this picture).

True, but having a shield on the left, and the sword on the left can cause problems when riding or marching. Suspect that when not battle ready he keeps his shield on his back and shifts the sword over to the other side. Other factors were that I wanted to show the back of the shield, and wanted the sword to be visible, as there have been comments about missing weaponry (the Hilton warrior should have at least a pair of javelins, but decided not to show them).

Looking at my sketches, I have 16 with the sword in the scabbard on the left and 14 on the right (including some suspended in such a way they are half way across the body), and one (a Humakti) with a sword on each hip. Some, such as several sickle-swords have the handle suspended just below the right hand and when unclipped would be ready for use.

Judging from ancient depictions there was no hard and fast 'rule' as to which side to keep the sword.

49 minutes ago, soltakss said:

You think that, I think that, almost everyone on this thread thinks that. The only person who doesn't think that is Martin Helsdon.

Well, that's because you don't see the ones that get binned, and I can see mistakes in those that pass the bin filter.

Next: a bull-rider.

Hilton forum.png

Edited by M Helsdon
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23 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Decided to make the shield design asymmetrical, so Brighteye is depicted only once, and the runes are, of course, those of Jannisor.

That works quite well!

23 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

chose to use a non-round shield-shape.

Perhaps they borrowed from some odd dwarf design. It's a nice, distinctive look though.

26 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

I decided that the runes of Orlatio might not be politic.

Jannisor's runes are definitely the better fit. Jannisor remains one of the pre-eminent war heroes in Imther, Vanch, even Holay. Even the Lunars (at least in Sylila and Henjarl region, as well as the provinces) respect him and his abilities, and statues of him can be found in odd places wherever famed war-leaders might be invoked for aid in battle.

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2 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Perhaps they borrowed from some odd dwarf design. It's a nice, distinctive look though.

Realised that although 'long spine' shields are mentioned in the text, and two are shown in the shields illustration, no one using one had been sketched. Also wanted to make it clear that the illustration of shields is not definitive, as this shape doesn't appear there.

4 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Jannisor's runes are definitely the better fit. Jannisor remains one of the pre-eminent war heroes in Imther, Vanch, even Holay. Even the Lunars (at least in Sylila and Henjarl region, as well as the provinces) respect him and his abilities, and statues of him can be found in odd places wherever famed war-leaders might be invoked for aid in battle.

He gets his own subsection in the 'Gods of War' chapter.

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59 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Judging from ancient depictions there was no hard and fast 'rule' as to which side to keep the sword.

The first culture to make a defining technology of where to carry their swords on the hips appear to have been the La Tene culture warriors, whose sword-belts show a constant development and improvement throughout the La Tene period, ending up being at least as heavy as the swords they supported, but optimized not to get the blade entangled in the legs even during rigorous movement.

Swords hung not from the belt but from the neck and possibly a shoulder could be worn much higher than swords on a belt, which helps keep them out of your legs, too. With the scabbard hanging loosely, it should be possible to upend it enough singlehanded while grabbing the hilt, and in case of doubt use the space between the left upper arm and the chest to keep it in place while removing the blade.

Massively and irregularly shaped blades like the kopis wielded by the noble on p.68 of RQG or the storm scimitar shown on p.133 would require a different kind of sheath than the rather straight or regularly curved blades we are used from other settings. I guess that quite wide, almost shield-like scabbards of wood or leather are possible for such blades, but there might be other solutions to prevent the blades from accidentally cutting stuff (including the bearer), such as wrap-around sheaths for parts or the whole of the blade. Possibly even something like reed mats.

A kopis miht have a semi-open sheath for the sraight part of the blade and a sickle-shaped regular one fitting the curve of the blade, allowing for a resonably quick draw of that blade by twisting the sheath away following the curved bit.

I wonder whether there are sheaths that double as defensive armament or as quivers for small missiles.

 

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