Swords of Central Genertela

[M Helsdon]

1 minute ago, Joerg said:

To be honest, neither am I, but there is nothing in the descriptions I remember that cannot be healed by replacing the term "knight" with either "man-of-all" or "Rokari noble".

Knight is one of those terms that can be either very loaded towards the idea of a European knight, chivalry etc. or more generally as simply a cavalry soldier (though given the cost of supplying and maintaining a mount, unless the army is heavily state run, often such cavalry are drawn from the elite...) I am tending to use it as an aristocratic rider. Of course a Man-of-All riding a Daron horse is a member of their society's elite, but I am tending to use the term to relate to a talari mounted fighter, but am not using 'squire' or 'page', even though there's evidence of the Sassanid cavalry, for example, having very similar posts, but they come with too much medieval baggage.

[Joerg]

20 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Knight is one of those terms that can be either very loaded towards the idea of a European knight, chivalry etc. or more generally as simply a cavalry soldier (though given the cost of supplying and maintaining a mount, unless the army is heavily state run, often such cavalry are drawn from the elite...) I am tending to use it as an aristocratic rider. Of course a Man-of-All riding a Daron horse is a member of their society's elite, but I am tending to use the term to relate to a talari mounted fighter, but am not using 'squire' or 'page', even though there's evidence of the Sassanid cavalry, for example, having very similar posts, but they come with too much medieval baggage.

All of my own replacements for the term "knight" in Fronelan context are sadly also (Roman) Iron Age, late (west) Roman Empire, Merowingian France, Belisarius or slightly earlier (Alexander's era). Or the Kshatryan warriors of India (which I admit I cannot place temporally that well.) The early Islamic state-sponsored warrior-devotee might qualify, too. My protest against late medieval equipment as depicted in Genertela Book is more than a quarter of a century old.

The Tollense Crossing finds of bodies indicate a type of horse riding warriors already back then when the "high cultures" of Egypt, Anatolia and Mesopotamia still used chariots as their main mobile platform. Quite likely a type of aristocratic horse warrior, too, and hence a possible model for some kind of men-of-all.

The Romano-British horse warriors of a potentially historical Artorios of Mons Badonicus fame would be a good match. While the Arthur flick with Keira Knightly as Guinevere had its weaknesses, having Sarmatians as the kernel of Artorios' "knights" made eminent sense to me in the context of defining the Malkioni men-of-all equipment and style of combat.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

The little I know of the Army of Tomorrow doesn't amount to very much.

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,... The way to dusty death... And then is heard no more. 

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Am now steadily working on the sequel, though it may take a year to finish, as I'd prefer to have an illustration on every second or third page, and can't think of those at present.

I have now 'finished' the sections on the Brithini, Hsunchen, and Seshnela, and am starting on Fronela (resulting in about thirty pages). The main source is obviously the Guide, and material Jeff has published online, so there's quite a bit of supposition, and I would dearly love access to any unpublished material... However, I have made use of an appendix pulled out of 'Armies & Enemies' which was titled 'Beasts of War' as it included some material about the Hsunchen.

Time for a new thread? Armies of Western Genertela...    … 🙂

[M Helsdon]

39 minutes ago, Joerg said:

While the Arthur flick with Keira Knightly as Guinevere had its weaknesses, having Sarmatians as the kernel of Artorios' "knights" made eminent sense to me in the context of defining the Malkioni men-of-all equipment and style of combat.

There's evidence that there were entire 'regiments' of Sarmatians in Britannia at one point, and the Romans had adopted their draco standards earlier. But... the entire period lapses into such confusion that finding the real war leader Artorius is nigh impossible. [It always strikes me as amusing that few people realise that C.J. Cherryh's Morgaine sf books have a heavy Arthurian background, in which the reason the terrestrial period is such a mess is the results of time quakes caused by the qhal misuse of the Gates, and the human cultures encountered are developments of Brythonic cultures lost in time and space, sometimes by thousands of years...]

8 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Time for a new thread? Armies of Western Genertela...    … 🙂

Maybe in six months or more I'll have some illustrations to share...

[M Helsdon]

Am still working on 'Men of the West' Seshnela chapter. Am avoiding details of sorcery 'schools' because I know those are under development. Now about 38 pages (Brithos, Hsunchen, Seshnela) and the more I 'discover' [make up] the less medieval Europe Seshnela seems, even with its feudal system (and there have been several non-European feudal systems). Of course the semi-tropical coastal climate is a factor, and I have just had fun writing about Seshnelan fortifications, which differ in construction from those detailed in Armies & Enemies for central Genertela.

One of the Kickstarter RQ special books had a very faint and barely readable pencil diagram of one of Arkat's battles, which contributes to what Seshnegi knights were like. If I am reading it correctly, they rode over troops on their own side to get at the enemy... One of those books has a single page of Arkat, Gerlant, and Talor approaching Kartolin mounted on goats. Am wondering if that fragment is what has been mentioned to me as Talor's Saga, as he certainly laughs a lot.

I probably need to start thinking about Fronela next. There's significant detail in the Guide, so will have to see how much needs to be invented.

Edited March 9, 2020 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

On 2/27/2020 at 8:31 PM, Joerg said:

I wonder - do you plan to include a good portion of the one hundred war cults (and hence warbands) of the Kingdom of War?

They get a (brief) mention, but I can only come up with about twenty war cults that seem possible for the region so there won't be a list. The KoW gets about three quarters of a page, which covers both of its incarnations... 😉

[M Helsdon]

Been reading (skimming) Plato's Republic and doing serious paraphrasing and summarizing. Gives quite an insight on Loskalm, and it is apparent that the Seshnelan 'Codes of War', for all the Rokari detest Hrestol, must be derived from The Book of Hrestol (different versions, probably).

Interesting parallels with ancient Indian rules about dharma yuddha, just war, and those were probably implemented as often as Plato's - as in, never.

[M Helsdon]

Working through Ralios... Now at about seventy pages. Naturally, Seshnela has the largest chapter. King Guilmarn demanded it.

Before starting this I had little impression of just how distinct the cultures of Seshnela, Fronela, and Ralios are, or just how many echoes of ancient cultures there are. May have to add a chapter about western Maniria. Have had to cover the West's religions in some detail, and have realised just how much Arkat's campaigns affected the military traditions of not just the West but central Genertela as well... Of course this is all YGWV.

The other thing that has struck me is just how interesting the First Age West would be as a setting...

[Richard S.]

31 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

The other thing that has struck me is just how interesting the First Age West would be as a setting...

Yeah, it would be really cool to have some more information about it. I believe Greg even considered setting the western supplement for RQ2 back then.

[Sir_Godspeed]

There's a decent amount of stuff on first age Seshnela, yeah. A very dynamic setting, too. 

[Stephen L]

Hopefully not completely off topic, but, I've a group of new roleplayers just starting up on a RuneQuest Glorantha campaign.  They are quite young, and I'm looking around for resources to show them what the various weapons and armour look like.  There's a few pictures dotted around the rules book, but my lot have rolled up an odd assortment.  One's a duck who's seemingly robbed random bits armour off various battlefield corpses. (BTW, I'm amazed at the vividness of the characters you get, I'm very impressed with RQinG).

I wondered if buying the "Armies of Dragon Pass" is the best place to start...

[M Helsdon]

2 hours ago, Stephen L said:

I wondered if buying the "Armies of Dragon Pass" is the best place to start...

There are pictures of arms and armor, and a fair number of sketches of people having a variety of equipment.

11 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

There's a decent amount of stuff on first age Seshnela, yeah. A very dynamic setting, too. 

Well, there's certainly some...

12 hours ago, Richard S. said:

Yeah, it would be really cool to have some more information about it. I believe Greg even considered setting the western supplement for RQ2 back then.

The RQ Kickstarter "Unpublished Scenarios and Source Material" included the manuscript for the intended West and Sorcery rules (by Charlie Krank?), and whilst there is some interesting material in it, canon has moved on. I have made some use of it, but it is very obviously a draft.

Edited March 28, 2020 by M Helsdon

[Rob Darvall]

4 hours ago, Stephen L said:

I wondered if buying the "Armies of Dragon Pass" is the best place to start...

Absolutely. This was the use that first drew me to Martin's work. The illustrations are worth the outlay by themselves.

"You see a group approaching dressed like this, with one of these riding slightly ahead and to your left"

[M Helsdon]

First draft almost done, just Army Lists to add. 76 pages. Started proofreading it and taking out duplications and fixing contradictions.

The Ralios chapter is still too short, only about 12 pages, when Seshnela gets 22 and Fronela 17. Have moved stuff around to split the 'Argat Saga' between two chapters.

It's weird: have read a bit about the West in Glorantha, but in actually writing about it, all sorts of things have occurred to me. Many doubtless wrong, but all sorts of coincidences and interesting 'facts' are apparent.

Not certain if I read it somewhere, but writing/reading about the Seshnelan Martial Beast cults and Ralian mercenaries, realised that there are Martial Beast regiments in Safelster even if they aren't identified as such - Ethilrist may have been a sort of Hrestoli, but the original name of his regiment is awfully suggestive, White Horses being associated with the Sun (and Ralios of old having male and female Sun Horse cults), and of course he raided Hell to steal some of the Sun's Black Horses - the Solar herd that went demonic in the Underworld...

Far too many footnotes, but things that aren't entirely relevant to the main text keep on appearing, and they add to the background. References to concubine-dancers in one of Jeff's art direction posts has triggered some thoughts about just how the legacy of the Serpent Kings isn't as buried as the fundamentalist Rokari would like.

Just wish a book I've ordered from India would arrive...

Edited March 28, 2020 by M Helsdon

[Mark Mohrfield]

Is a print-on-demand version a possibility, and if so when will it become available?

[M Helsdon]

16 hours ago, Mark Mohrfield said:

Is a print-on-demand version a possibility, and if so when will it become available?

You'd have to ask Chaosium. I know this was being looked into.

[M Helsdon]

Just need to proofread, index and illustrate...

[It is in the state 'Armies & Enemies' was in about fifteen months ago...]

The History sections are mostly military history, with sections on particular historical armies, heroes etc.

Edited March 31, 2020 by M Helsdon

[Sir_Godspeed]

Damn, you're a machine, Helsdon!

[Oracle]

9 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Damn, you're a machine, Helsdon!

Hidden Mostali?

[M Helsdon]

Started proofreading 'Men of the West' - found I started using terms such as cataphract and knight too early, resulting in minor rewrites, and then had some ideas for the Orlanthi regions of Ralios... Both of which mean, that instead of getting smaller, it has grown by about a thousand words.

[AndreJarosch]

6 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Started proofreading 'Men of the West' - found I started using terms such as cataphract and knight too early, resulting in minor rewrites, and then had some ideas for the Orlanthi regions of Ralios... Both of which mean, that instead of getting smaller, it has grown by about a thousand words.

Will the fighting power of a Brithini knight be mentioned?

Arkat (35 year old soldier in the Brithini army) was present when only a few Brithini "knights" danced through the Seshnelan army, killing a LOT of them (according to the version of Arkat-Saga, i know). 

[M Helsdon]

27 minutes ago, AndreJarosch said:

Will the fighting power of a Brithini knight be mentioned?

There are no Brithini knights because as I understand it, they were all infantry, but, let's see, about 1,600 words on the Brithini holari.

The Brithini holari are frightening in their experience, their skills, and the amount of wizardry used to strengthen them, their weapons, and their armor... In Third Age terms, suspect each one would have the fighting ability of a Hero or Demigod.

Must admit that when I visualize a Brithini holari I tend to see warriors something like the  alfar in Charles Stross' The Nightmare Stacks (but without the pointed ears).

Edited April 1, 2020 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

That's the first draft of 'Men of the West' completed, coming in at 74,454 words not counting the index. With the index it is 99 pages.

If it is cleared to proceed will start generating maps and illustrations - probably needs four maps and about thirty sketches.

Edited April 5, 2020 by M Helsdon

[M Helsdon]

And it's still growing. I really like Safelster...

[davecake]

On 4/2/2020 at 2:54 AM, M Helsdon said:

There are no Brithini knights because as I understand it, they were all infantry,

Which makes sense, but I also thought the ancestors of the Daron, the heavy cavalry horses of Seshnela and Fronela, are descended from the Deskuval horses of Danmalastan - but I guess the ancient Brithini didn't ride them onto battle, just used them as beasts of burden? Or maybe dragoons? 

I see the Brithini horali as incredibly competent at arms, well protected with magic, and very inflexible and lacking in creativity in tactics. Attacks them in ways they expect, and they are in a lot of trouble. Attack them in ways they don't expect, and you have a reasonable chance.... once.