Designing the new RuneQuest - part 12

[styopa]

1 hour ago, Pentallion said:

I love how you slipped that "The Definitive Book on the God Learners" in there.

I'd pay more than I can afford for that level of kickstarter.

Isn't the Rulebook we hold - defining everything in its mechanical relationship to each other - *essentially* the God Learner book of Glorantha?

If anything, Jeff himself - by writing these rules, and the previous Guide - is the Demiurge of the God Learners.  

He has pinned the facts of the world forever in a book like a butterfly.  Of course to do that to a butterfly, you have to kill it first.

(Greg avoided this by constantly retconning himself, *proving* that the written word couldn't keep up with the changing nature of reality.)

[Richard S.]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 6:50 PM, MOB said:

Yep, RQ Quickstart's release is confirmed for June, and will include an introductory scenario. Fortunately there's plenty o' RQ Classic to keep them entertained in Glorantha for the mean time...

Is the RQ Quickstart going to be like the CoC Quickstart?

[Rick Meints]

In general, the RQ QuickStart will be similar to the CoC QuickStart.

[g33k]

On 2/9/2017 at 8:51 AM, Rick Meints said:

In general, the RQ QuickStart will be similar to the CoC QuickStart.

GAAAH.

I am just NOT liking the similarities between "Quckstart" and "Kickstart ... "    My first reading of Rick's remark led to a reaction of:

Quote

WTF !?  They are planning on a THREE YEAR WAIT ???!?

I *OBVIOUSLY* need to read more carefully ...

Edited February 12, 2017 by g33k
cloarification...

[Rick Meints]

I'll assume g33k is trying to be funny and say nothing more.

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

I'll assume g33k is trying to be funny and say nothing more.

Too right. Much better saying it will be out "Next year", at least we are on more comfortable ground then ...

[g33k]

2 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

I'll assume g33k is trying to be funny and say nothing more.

Apologies for any confusion I caused  -- I was reporting on my own brief confusion/misreading of "Quickstart" vs "Kickstart".

New Chaosium has done a stellar job in turning-around the prior bad choices that lead to the CoC7 KICKstart taking 3 years to complete (and we can never know if the old mgmt COULD have pulled it off, but I suspect not...)

I have nothing but positive anticipation over a RQ-new QUICKstart that's similar to the well-regarded CoC7 one.

But I STILL dislike how similar those words are... :-P

[Rick Meints]

All good. If someone has a better new term for scaled down intro version of a game, we are open to suggestions.

We don't mind the term "QuickStart", but it isn't exactly poetry.

[Al.]

Well 'Kickstart' always reminds me of the seminal BBC TV programme about motorbike trial riding. But since it's now a (multi) industry wide label I suspect that it will be here to stay.

The problem with replacing 'Quickstart' is that as lumpen and unlovely as it is, it does describe the book in a way that 'Initiation' or other more RQ-like labels probably don't

 

[styopa]

2 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

All good. If someone has a better new term for scaled down intro version of a game, we are open to suggestions.

We don't mind the term "QuickStart", but it isn't exactly poetry.

Maybe...

[Rick Meints]

I love the original Basic Roleplaying: An Introductory Guide book. I would be happy to use that name again in that specific context. I have a feeling some people will feel it is an overt attempt to desecrate, destroy, and belittle the BGB though.

I strongly feel that an introduction to the D100 system, and answering "what is a roleplaying game?" is a much needed thing.

 

[Rhialto the Marvellous]

But the BGB would never be mistaken for Basic Roleplaying: An Introductory Guide, would it? It's comprehensive, which most introductory guides are not. An Introduction to the Chaosium Basic Roleplaying System would be an homage to the previous introductory guide, but perhaps too similar in name.

With respect alternates to Quickstart: FastPlay?

[SDLeary]

4 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

I love the original Basic Roleplaying: An Introductory Guide book. I would be happy to use that name again in that specific context. I have a feeling some people will feel it is an overt attempt to desecrate, destroy, and belittle the BGB though.

I strongly feel that an introduction to the D100 system, and answering "what is a roleplaying game?" is a much needed thing.

 

Well, this would provide an opportunity. You would have Basic Roleplaying: An Introductory Guide... You could then take the BGB and remove the introductory bits, tweak some of the other things so that they would fit better, perhaps get Steve to expand on Superpowers slightly, and rename it Basic Roleplaying: Advanced Options. Perhaps even pull out the GM advice, expand on it, and produce a third volume, Basic Roleplaying: A Gamemasters Guide.

Yeah, wishful thinking and time consuming, I know! 

SDLeary

[styopa]

As much as it was my suggestion, the only problem with using BRP as your 'core' is that it isn't any more, as far as I understand.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but CoC7 and RQ4 bear only the faintest passing similarity in structure and mechanics, no?  RQ4 is RQ2+ (with a little bit of 3), CoC7 as far as I know (I don't own it) has gone rather further afield from the core resolution systems born in BRP.  

If someone gets ahold of something that purports to be Chaosiums "Basic Game Rules" I guess as a consumer I'd ASSUME that set of rules would be the foundation upon which other more specialized systems are built additively (for example, BRP might not have hit locations, while RQ adds them) without much being taken away (a more complicated approach, conceptually).  Is the core system that RQ, CoC, and (for that matter) BGB still have in common enough to even have a marginally playable set of rules?

That said, it seems to me that Chaosium can't really hold BGB somehow sacrosanct.

CoC was (again, AFAIK) overhauled with 7.  RQ drifted far afield and is coming back to roots in BRP (yes, I know, historically it's actually the reverse: that BRP had its roots in RQ).  Why should BGB be immune to likewise tinkering?

[Guest Vile Traveller]

7 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

I love the original Basic Roleplaying: An Introductory Guide book. [...] I have a feeling some people will feel it is an overt attempt to desecrate, destroy, and belittle the BGB though.

Well, I always thought the BGB should have been called Advanced Roleplaying anyway.

[g33k]

20 hours ago, Al. said:

The problem with replacing 'Quickstart' is that as lumpen and unlovely as it is, it does describe the book in a way that 'Initiation' or other more RQ-like labels probably don't

That name is actually... kinda genius.  I mean, Ars Magica called theirs "jumpstart" which I always found kind of weirdly-modern & electrical for a "medieval paradigm / modern-physics explicitly-wrong" cosmology; but then again:  Mythras Imperative WTF ??!?

Initiation

A Quackstart Introduction to Runequest

Rather has a nice appearance, IMHO!  And just as the new edition will be published as "Runequest" (and the fans&forumites can end up with whatever nomenclature they will), so too can Chaosium use whatever flavorful or functional title suits them, and let the fans call the Initiation a "Quickstart" or whatever they want...

<waves hand airily, adds a commanding slightly-Americanized British accent>:  "Make it so!"

 

 

Edited February 13, 2017 by g33k

[deleriad]

11 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

I strongly feel that an introduction to the D100 system, and answering "what is a roleplaying game?" is a much needed thing.

Really? In 2017. An intro to Runequest is definitely useful but I find it hard to believe that anyone in 2017 who is likely to be the least bit interested would need to be told what a roleplaying game is.

I think the idea below, RuneQuest: Initiation is brilliant. A short focused introduction to what RQ is including runes and Glorantha makes perfect sense to me. The USP to new RQ is Glorantha and runes after all. RQ is not being marketed as an awesome new fantasy RPG system with which you can play in any setting it is being marketed as a return to Glorantha for a classic game.

At this point there isn't really a BRP "system" as such. There are two closely related games, CoC 7 and RQ, but they pretty much differ in everything but the dice you roll. An intro to BRP makes no sense that I can see because you would be introducing people to a game that doesn't exist.

Anyway, that's my 2c as an interested observer. Admittedly I'll be running Glorantha using my preferred system - Mythras - so I'm hoping that new RQ is a big success and generates loads of Gloranthan goodness for me to play with.

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, deleriad said:

Really? In 2017. An intro to Runequest is definitely useful but I find it hard to believe that anyone in 2017 who is likely to be the least bit interested would need to be told what a roleplaying game is.

I don't find it hard at all. Yesterday I ran a basic norse skirmish wargame for an upcoming Kickstarter playtest to test the rules as written for a Print and Play version. Two of the players were 17 and had never experienced hex based wargames. I left them to it to figure it out. They had a great time and wondered if there were other games like this. Next they played the full 4 player version. One of the other players asked me if i knew of a good Norse RPG. I said there were a few to chose from. One of the 17 year olds asked the name of one of the computer games. I said these aren't computer games but... and did a quick and simple explanation of RPGs. My experience is that most people think RPG = video game. Most are surprised at the "other" version.

[lawrence.whitaker]

Quote

 Mythras Imperative WTF ??!?

Imperative

adjective: a thing of vital or crucial importance; noun: an essential or urgent thing

The name was carefully chosen.

[Zit]

What about using the word "Discovery" (how exactly is better left to native English speakers...). Isn't it what the QuickStart is aimed at ?

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

Runequest for Dummies?

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

I think the "starter set" format works really well as an introduction in D&D 5ed. I wonder could a similar form & name be used for the new Runequest?

[el_octogono]

How about RuneQuest: Basics

[g33k]

8 hours ago, lawrence.whitaker said:

Imperative

adjective: a thing of vital or crucial importance; noun: an essential or urgent thing

The name was carefully chosen.

Oh, I know you had your reasons.  And I won't even say they are "wrong" -- I mean, you guys have a successful RPG company with a great ruleset and lots of supplements, so you obviously know what you're doing!  Which is a helluva lot better demonstration of know-what-to-do-in-RPG-publishing than *I* can muster!!!

All I'm saying is that "Imperative" (as a title) strikes me much more as an "adventure" or even a "campaign" title, than it does as a "quickstart" ruleset.

Hence my rather bemused reaction to it; "WTF" may be a bit more extreme than I meant to convey, or even uncivil -- no offense meant, and sincere apologies if any was taken!  You guys do good work, and I regularly point to "Mythras Imperative" in online forums / etc whenever people ask for a quickstart ruleset.

Nevertheless:  bemused by it I was, and bemused by it I remain.  

[g33k]

13 hours ago, deleriad said:

Really? In 2017. An intro to Runequest is definitely useful but I find it hard to believe that anyone in 2017 who is likely to be the least bit interested would need to be told what a roleplaying game is.

The whole topic of including a "what is a RPG" section into the rules is rather a matter of debate these days.  I used to be on the "really?  why bother?  gimme wordcount / pagecount I can use!" side of the debate.

But I've come to realize that there really ARE still many newbies to the hobby -- more arrive every day (gods willing!) -- and so this really DOES matter.  That said, I think the "same-ol-same-old" format is pretty tired... I might put a fair amount of effort into looking at different ways to do it.  For example, put it at the END (with an "if you've never seen a role-playing-game" pointer from up-front), and include an example-of-play segment; but that's just off-the-top-of-my-head, and I'm betting the Bright Minds at Chaosium can come up with notions just-as-good-and-better...

Edited February 13, 2017 by g33k
incomplete post submitted before done writing