Big Rubble Maps

[Noita]

There's a thread on one of the sites about just this. Will go search.

[Byll]

On 4/1/2017 at 8:39 PM, soltakss said:

I have added a couple of image maps for New Pavis and the Big Rubble.

The maps are in a format that I can easily amend, so I hope to be expanding them in the future.

I am looking for comments/criticism/etc, so please feel free to reply here or PM me, whichever suits.

Apologies for the quality of the artwork, I have the very basic 5% default skill in drawing and it shows.

Really nice active map. One thing you could still add is the "Wealthy Resident tag that comes from the 4 diamonds map symbol. It applies to 

P29 (Mayor's house - currently Brygga)

D1 (technically the Count of Mo Basura's residence in Pavis - actually Lunar Military headquarters)
D23 
D24
D26
D27
D33 (Jorjar, Jorratan, Denerx)
D34 (Duke Raus)
D36
D38
D46

R17
R91
R105 Lesser Ingilli
R106 Greater Ingilli - Scarman
R107 Ingilli Guildsmen
R67

S63 Eiskoli Family (Haloric Glowbrow)
S58
S57
S48
S76 Hucipites Lunar Polemarch of Marble Phalanx
S46

O1 Banyaros Lunar Captain of Silver Shields
O13 
O33

F50 (Sitzmag Redmoon)
F61

H19
H26 Kost the Tracker
H29
H34
H36
H38 Serena Jonglour Patroma
H40
H41
H45
H46
H49
H52 
H53
H55 Malavar Patroma
H61 Garhound Family - Gorovan
H62 Indagos Family -Javan
H63 Govenor Sor Eel (Dorasar 
H65
 

Downtown has 4 Landowner families, Riverside has 2, Suntowm has 4, Farmers quarter has 3, Oldtown has 1 and Rich Hill has 6, These might be expected to be the likely Rich Residents. Few of the Guildmasters are likely to be that wealthy (Honest Koli possibly, but he probably lives at his shop in Blue St).

 The 4500 residents are spilt between 1265 households, and only servants who don't live under their masters' rooves are counted separately from their masters' households. Many Buildings must contain multiple households and many households will be one or two people (since rich households likely contain many more than 4 with family, employees and servants)

[soltakss]

On 4/2/2017 at 11:48 PM, Pentallion said:

It's awesome and has inspired me to make a full scale Rol20 map.  Well, several, actually, since the BR will be too large to load onto a single page.  New Pavis should fit nicely, however.  My only critique is that you can't copy the images.  My old eyes can't see that tiny picture so well and I wanted to paste it onto Irfanview so I could enlarge it.

You should be able to copy or download the images. They have not been protected in any way.

I use a widescreen monitor at home, so what looks good on my monitor probably doesn't on anyone else's, so I kept the image to a reasonable size. I recommend zooming the browser to 250%, as that is a good compromise for both images, making them easier to view and not too large.

 

 

[soltakss]

On 4/3/2017 at 9:08 AM, Darius West said:

Here is a question.  Old Pavis used to be a huge city.  What were their burial customs, and where are their cemeteries?  And for that matter, where are New Pavis' cemeteries?  I hear some unscrupulous scoundrels in the region make their money from robbing tombs...

The Pavic Citizens of the Big Rubble spent a lot of time avoiding nomads and trolls, so their burial customs would be secretive. I would expect them to simply bury their dead in catacombs. In desparate times, they might even have eaten their dead. Now they are free, they probably still use the old catacombs in the Big Rubble.

People of Mani's Fort have their own rituals, but I think they also use catacombs beneath Mani's Fort, albeit with oasis Folk rituals.

Trolls have their own rituals and this vary by cult. Some of the corpses are reserved for Karrg Sons, who must eat a relative every season. Others are animated by Zorak Zorani as temple guardians or undead warriors. Trollkin are generally eaten. 

Elves simply bury their dead in the Garden and plants grow from the corpses.

Flintnail Dwarves probably entomb their dead in stone off the Dwarven Tunnels. I don't think they use the standard Mostali recycling or their dead into easy to carry metal containers.

There are a number of burial mounds and tombs described in the Big Rubble. A burial mound is in the marketplace near Griffin Gate, near Balastor's Barracks, for example.

[soltakss]

On 4/3/2017 at 8:34 PM, Byll said:

Really nice active map. One thing you could still add is the "Wealthy Resident tag that comes from the 4 diamonds map symbol. It applies to 

That's a good idea. What is the 4 diamonds map symbol? Ah, Wingdings-118,❖, I'll see how easy this is to incorporate.

I will incorporate this information in my next update, whenever that will be.

On 4/3/2017 at 8:34 PM, Byll said:

Downtown has 4 Landowner families, Riverside has 2, Suntowm has 4, Farmers quarter has 3, Oldtown has 1 and Rich Hill has 6, These might be expected to be the likely Rich Residents. Few of the Guildmasters are likely to be that wealthy (Honest Koli possibly, but he probably lives at his shop in Blue St).

 The 4500 residents are spilt between 1265 households, and only servants who don't live under their masters' rooves are counted separately from their masters' households. Many Buildings must contain multiple households and many households will be one or two people (since rich households likely contain many more than 4 with family, employees and servants)

Yes, it is always tricky to decide what information to include. Too much and I am in danger of just copying vast parts of Chaosium material. I did wonder about including how many storeys a building has, many are tenements with multiple storeys and many apartments per storey. However, it is a lot of work to do.

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by soltakss

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

That's a good idea. What is the 4 diamonds map symbol? Ah, Wingdings-118,❖, I'll see how easy this is to incorporate.

I will incorporate this information in my next update, whenever that will be.

Done!

I suppose I now need to find a symbol for Inns/Taverns, Temples and so on. Always more work to do.

Just looking through hundreds of thousands of Unicode symbols. Does anyone have any suggestions for symbols for:

• Inns
• Taverns
• Temples
• Stables
• Mercenary Units
• Shops
• Training

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by soltakss

[Pentallion]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

There are a number of burial mounds and tombs described in the Big Rubble. A burial mound is in the marketplace near Griffin Gate, near Balastor's Barracks, for example.

One of the rare "fails" in RQ IMO.  D&D has many such fails, like the dragon deep in the dungeon that's too big to leave through the passageways on the map.  How does it eat?  How can it survive?  RQ has always avoided that stupidity.  Except in this case.  Why would a Praxian want to be buried inside the walls of Pavis?  That's so unPraxian it would never happen.  And a burial mound in the Big Rubble is just begging to be plundered.  Last place a Praxian would leave a burial mound.

It was one of those things that probably sounded good on the surface, but they forgot to think it through.

[TRose]

 Beside the above listed cultures, you have Daka Fal/Ancestor worship types to whom burying the dead  under the floorboard of the house might seem like a good idea. People there might fight as who gets to bury Grandma under their house

[TRose]

1 hour ago, Pentallion said:

One of the rare "fails" in RQ IMO.  D&D has many such fails, like the dragon deep in the dungeon that's too big to leave through the passageways on the map.  How does it eat?  How can it survive?  RQ has always avoided that stupidity.  Except in this case.  Why would a Praxian want to be buried inside the walls of Pavis?  That's so unPraxian it would never happen.  And a burial mound in the Big Rubble is just begging to be plundered.  Last place a Praxian would leave a burial mound.

It was one of those things that probably sounded good on the surface, but they forgot to think it through.

 In my opinion the so called burial mounds in the rubble are more like mass graves .

 The Nomads don't want to admit that their Khan got ambushed by the residents of the rubble  and he and his warriors where then  slaughtered and  all where buried in a mass grave so they come up with heroic stories that explain why he is buried in the Rubble.

[Darius West]

17 hours ago, TRose said:

 In my opinion the so called burial mounds in the rubble are more like mass graves .

 The Nomads don't want to admit that their Khan got ambushed by the residents of the rubble  and he and his warriors where then  slaughtered and  all where buried in a mass grave so they come up with heroic stories that explain why he is buried in the Rubble.

Good idea TRose. Let me add a political addendum.  The places where you bury your dead are historical sticking points in any contested claim of ownership.  Consider the troubles in Kosovo, or the statement of the Scythian Kings to Darius of Persia regarding their royal tombs, or the Roman attitude to the sacredness of their ancestors ashes, the Chinese practice of Feng Shui based ancestor reburial etc. The burial of the dead is a statement of ownership, and when ghosts serve to defend such tombs, so much the moreso.  There is an onus to defend such places at the price of your very soul, for what will your ancestors say when you go to join them and you let their remains be defiled?  Will your own descendents defend your remains?  Will your ancestor lose power of cease to exist if you fail?  Worse, will a (insert cultural villain figure here........) use those precious remains to control your ancestor and send them against you, for then you have no defences against them?

There is no doubt that the nomads would have needed to dispose of their honored dead in the rubble, but I am betting on cremation, otherwise it would have been merely a larder kindly buried for winter consumption as a present to the troll community.  Building a mound on the ashes is still a fitting monument.   The alternative is having your clan sit in the rubble and defending the site until the remains are decomposed.

Of course amongst Praxians the earth burial component is primarily Eirithans, and as we know from Peaceful Cut, the most important thing is to protect the soul by removing the tail.  Amongst Eiritha cultists, this is achieved by a ritual pubic shaving of the dead of course...

 

[Noita]

Wasn't it a Storm Bull burial mound? Possibly left alone because of that. The Storm Bull dead are left sat on their mounts if I remember correctly.

[David Scott]

23 hours ago, Pentallion said:

Why would a Praxian want to be buried inside the walls of Pavis?  That's so unPraxian it would never happen.  And a burial mound in the Big Rubble is just begging to be plundered.  Last place a Praxian would leave a burial mound.

Great question. The land inside the walls is still part of Prax. Original this was walled off by Paragua and was nomad grazing - called Paragua's Grazing. It's likely that some clans migration routes were part of this land. However then I thought to check all my info for Praxian burial rites, a good exercise to check what I've got - 

Praxian Death Practices by Cult

These only apply to Praxian members of these cults/societies:

Waha, the Monkey King, Great Rhino, Pure Horse Founder - Followers are burned after they die, and their ashes are spread to the plains and winds.

Eiritha - Sentient members are always buried after they die.

Storm Bull - cult members make a pile of bones and skulls. The skulls of male herd beasts are commonly used, but bones from other aggressive animals are also acceptable. The warrior’s mount is sacrificed and is seated on top of pile so they may ride together in the afterlife. Finally the warrior is mounted with his weapons, armor, and other favored possessions.

Daka Fal & Grandfather Baboon - bodies are defleshed, and their bones set beneath a small cairn next to the fire used to burn their flesh.

Foundchild - Society members are dismembered when they die. Their flesh is returned to the earth, their skull is then set on top with their broken tools, charms, and bones beneath. Colored stones are often set into the eye sockets,

Helpwoman - The elder goes off on her own into the Wastelands to die. Her body is never found.

Sky Gazers, Ostrich Mother, Baba Ulodra, Yelorna - their body and belongings will be ritually burnt in a purifying fire.

Burners - their body and belongings will be ritually burnt by a Holy Fire spirit.

Shadow People - their body and belongings will be buried or placed in a dark cave.

Thirstless - their body is rendered down in a special ritual, the dust of their body is scattered and their water is taken to their favourite spirit’s home and released there.

The Hidden Ancestor & the Twinstars - their bodies are placed on a bier and burnt

Humakt - custom requires that they bury Humakti without cremating them.

Yelmalio - The dead of this cult are burned at dusk with days.

Seven Mothers - Local preference always is given to burial functions. Burned.

Orlanth - Funeral rites for Orlanth cultists require the burning of the body.

Chalana Arroy - Their corpses are buried after death.

This neatly answers the question of what Praxians are buried and might be in a mound - Eirithans, Shadow people society, Humakti, Chalana Arroy. LOts of adventure hooks there.

[Darius West]

Thanks David, that's a big list.  There is a lot of body burning going on.  On the plains of Prax that will take a lot of "buffalo chips".

For the sake of my Gloranthan education, who is Baba Ulodra?  Some sort of Baboon deity perhaps?

 

[David Scott]

23 minutes ago, Darius West said:

There is a lot of body burning going on.  On the plains of Prax that will take a lot of "buffalo chips".

Almost all of the burning is done by magical fire - Oakfed's children - the Holy Flames, the Seven Mothers have similar magics - Full half lunes, While Yelorna has her magical meteor bow.

[David Scott]

35 minutes ago, Darius West said:

who is Baba Ulodra

Pavis GtA page 50:

Quote

The Agimori, or Men-and-a-Half, came to Prax to fight for their god Baba Ulodra.

He is their primary mens' god, and his wife is Ernalda.

[Darius West]

4 hours ago, David Scott said:

Pavis GtA page 50:

He is their primary mens' god, and his wife is Ernalda.

Thanks, I thought maybe a baboon deity because Baba means baboon in Egyptian.  I totally forgot about the Agimori, shame on me.