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David Scott

Morokanth & Darkness

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Is the Dark Eater the same entity as the Black Eater mentioned in Trollpak?

 

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The trolls ... began an ancient summoning of an entity called the Black Eater.

...

Gbaji, the White Light, scorched away the immortal ally of the trolls, and the Black Eater shrivelled from history.

 

Then it goes on to describe the Trollkin curse.

 

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The reference I was thinking of is the Black Eater as well. Troll Pack Uz Lore (AH p14 sidebar) - A Trollkin Philosophy

We believe in the Black Eater. It is the truth of the world, and we are its victims. There is only one thing that rules us and that is the Black Eater...

Don't ask the Uzko to explain the Black Eater, they know nothing of it, for the demigods and the Uzuz hid the secret. Only we know, who are cursed of all... it is, and it devours all of everything beginning with us.

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On 15/03/2017 at 9:40 AM, soltakss said:

So, the "so magical it's in Plunder" Morocanth Thumb is now replaced by a glove made from the skin of a herd man with the herdman's spirit in? Hmmm. How big are Morocanth hooves compared to a herd man's hand?

As I said, the charm isn't permanent and the hands clearly needed altering. I'm not saying that the thumbs are not important, just less so.

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9 hours ago, David Scott said:

I don't think Dark Eater is an individual troll god. Under hero quest Glorantha, it's a single rune spirit - darkness. And looking at the sources this doesn't fit perfectly with anything (bear in mind the drastic series aren't canon):

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Zolan Zubar is mentioned in History of the Heortling Peoples, in terms of a powerful war god not a great darkness spirit. More info is in the Kolat cult write up:

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Below Me: This position must be filled by Zolan Zubar, the Underworld Spirit.

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What is the source of this quote? The Kolat cult write up I have access to is in the Sartar Companion and there the respective description is:

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Below Me. These are Darkness spirits called Zolan Zubar (“Hell Demon”). They provide charms that fight one of the Six Foes: undead corpses, possession spirits, spirits of death powers, spirits of diseases, and curses sent by women. The taboo of this charm is Never Kill.

This sounds as if Zolan Zubar is a whole category of spirits, not just one.

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He was incarnated by the Lord Master of the Demons of Death IIRC. I think this implies control over a realm of demons, rather than a collective being.

There is no particular reason that a war deity cannot also be experienced as a Darkness spirit.

Zolan Zubar was incorporated/supplanted by Zorak Zorn, who seems to have considerable resonances with war and darkness himself.

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Black and Dark Eater are aspects of the hungry underworld god(dess)/spirit which has mothered the uzuz race under the name (or aspect) of Kyger Litor. Note that when the Eater at the Battle of Night and Day was wounded in the womb, it was Kyger Litor's daughter Korasting who bore the wound, not the greater being.

When we are talking about Kyger Litor taking on a role in any context, we can never be sure how much of the greater being we are going to encounter.

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One of the fundamental traits of Darkness is that it hides things and makes them difficult to know. No human can ever really know just exactly which underworld demon they are dealing with, because it's dark down there, and your eyes are going to lie to you. Trolls understand this intimately, and don't make a huge distinction between a God, a Spirit with some or all of the powers of that god, or even a troll devotee of a god. If it is powerful, and acts like they expect that god to act, what difference does it make? Any sufficiently angry and violent spirit is Zorak Zoran, and my Mom is Kyger Litor, as are troll Mothers, along with all the various maternal ancestor spirits we summon on holy days to give us strength and wisdom.
Even for the Uz, what "really" happens in the Dark is mostly unknowable. The best you can do is put a name on something, tell a story about it, and hope you are strong or influential enough to make your version stick. And the further you go back into the Dark, the less distinct and recognizable things become. All the various Dehori become Dehore, vast and singular. Each and every troll is Kyger Litor, as are all trolls together, plus the parts of her from before trolls. The twin Gods of Rage and Compassion become closer and less distinct, and ultimately, Subere engulfs and conceals all. Finally, there is just Darkness itself, hungry, cold and unknowable, consuming whatever dares approach it too closely.  

16 hours ago, Joerg said:

When we are talking about Kyger Litor taking on a role in any context, we can never be sure how much of the greater being we are going to encounter.

exactly!

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On 3/17/2017 at 0:44 AM, David Scott said:

I believe the black & dark eaters to be separate although clearly related darkness entitles.

So the dark eater is slightly less dark than the black eater?  Or is it a question of diet?  I thought they were both basically aspects of Kyger Litor as Joerg suggests.

Edited by Darius West

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15 minutes ago, Darius West said:

I thought they were both basically aspects of Kyger Litor as Joerg suggests.

On 17/03/2017 at 2:05 PM, boztakang said:

One of the fundamental traits of Darkness is that it hides things and makes them difficult to know

Black Eater is found amongst the Grazers, Dark Eater amongst the Praxians. Both are aspects of Kyger Litor, each has a different mythology in relationship to their respective  tradition. So they are likely not the same aspect.

The only place you may be able to test this is in the Pol-joni, where 5% (250) of the tribe have the Darkness rune, but only 10 of those are members of the shadow people spirit society. That's not enough for their own spirit talker, so it's unlikely there's any crossover (unless its a story hook).

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