Barbarian Town/Exilestead

[David Scott]

@Joerg, these are just my nascent ideas. At the moment I've just reached a new part of the Praxian history section, where Sheng's Empire, Praxians are fighting against him, Praxians are fighting with him and the Pol Joni arrive in Prax. So I'm currently looking at the whole overview. Some of the stuff doesn't make sense at the moment, but your comments are certainly helpful.

14 hours ago, Joerg said:

Are the Pol Joni as much of a Praxian tribe? I view them more as a less confrontational repeat of the Pure Horse Folk presence. When he entered Prax, Derik had 20 years of support by Yarandros left before he had to survive by virtue of his own resources.

Yes they are a Praxian tribe. Cults of Prax establishes this and lists their Waha and Eiritha cult makeup in appendix C. 

The Guide says

Quote

 

Eventually the Pol-Joni tribe included pygmy riders from the Impala People, dusky alticamulus riders, bearded bison outlaws, and many others from footbound clans as well. All Pol-Joni rode horses. Their cattle bred profusely, and the horses bred true.

Within a few generations, the new tribe had grown strong enough to stand as equal to the peoples in the limited area of Prax. They called themselves the Pol-Joni, but the Praxians called them the “bastard tribe” and the “illegal tribe” because they were not pure, or worshipers of the Prax and Paps deities.

Nonetheless, trade passed between them, and occasional Pol-Joni went to the Paps to worship. Their warriors were accepted into Praxian secret societies, and they became, in every way, one of the many bickering tribes of the plains.

 

I'm looking at the route to acceptance, clearly it was gradual. But I think Derik discovered a secret to help them. He clearly discovered Jaldon's secret and uses that to ally him to the Pol-joni, but I think he has another link. One of the other areas that I'm looking at is that first age Prax was much more thelyan than it is now, and there's likely an Orlanth link to it.

[soltakss]

On 4/11/2017 at 9:30 AM, David Scott said:

This means that although the Pol Joni are a Praxian tribe, they also graze in the Verge, outside of Prax. 

In my campaign, the Pol Joni were not a Praxian Tribe, so the PCs could make them a Praxian tribe. They took some Grazelander HeroQuestors who had come to Prax as the reborn Pure Horse Tribe and showed that the White Bull was also the White Stallion. When they showed that some of the Pol Joni were also members of the White Bull/White Stallion sacred society, they showed that the Pol Joni were partly Praxian. When they went to the Paps, they found a horse-headed idol, deep within the temple and showed that this was not a zebra idol, so proved that the Pol Joni were Praxians.

[m0n0cular]

Barbarian Town was featured in Pavic Tales #5-8 and possibly the final issue #9 too, but I don't have that one. Very non-canonical! I'll read through them and post anything that might tie in with what's now known about the place.

[Pentallion]

13 hours ago, soltakss said:

In my campaign, the Pol Joni were not a Praxian Tribe, so the PCs could make them a Praxian tribe. They took some Grazelander HeroQuestors who had come to Prax as the reborn Pure Horse Tribe and showed that the White Bull was also the White Stallion. When they showed that some of the Pol Joni were also members of the White Bull/White Stallion sacred society, they showed that the Pol Joni were partly Praxian. When they went to the Paps, they found a horse-headed idol, deep within the temple and showed that this was not a zebra idol, so proved that the Pol Joni were Praxians.

So just how did your Trickster get deep into the temple with his horse-headed idol?  And more importantly:  How did you keep him from carving the idol into something more phallic?

[soltakss]

The phallic idol was the one in the Ernalda Great temple in Esrolia that had a woman with a phallus, the woman looked incredibly like a PC who had borne, for a time, Genert's phallus, giving her the ability to have a phallus whenever required. 

The PCs "found" the horse-headed idol, which probably meant the idol appeared when they arrived, or had always been there but nobody noticed, or that everyone assumed it was a zebra idol until the PCs proved otherwise. 

We don't have a trickster in the party, but haven't really needed one as the party tends to cause as many problems as it solves, fortunately for me as a GM.

[Darius West]

On 4/15/2017 at 3:12 PM, Pentallion said:

So just how did your Trickster get deep into the temple with his horse-headed idol?  And more importantly:  How did you keep him from carving the idol into something more phallic?

Look more closely at the horse's nose and cheeks... horses have more than one nostril, and their cheeks aren't that round

[Ian_W]

As it looks like Sarah Newton's manuscript on Barbarian Town is indefinitely delayed, and I think it's where I want to set a campaign, so here's some thoughts. Your Glorantha Will Vary. 

 

1. It's been a town before, but goes through a cycle of establishment, growth, being burned down by cranky Beast Nomads, then being re-established. Before the Hero Wars, it's a Pol Joni town, and the Pol Joni are Lightbringers who learned to ride horses properly.

1a The traditional Orlanthi chariots are terrible at fighting cavalry - if you try and use them to do that, then you'll get your bits kicked in by actual cavalry, and be forced to concede any and all grazing lands they want (see also Grazelanders). Eventually, an Orlanthi hero embraced change and put horse riding front and center, and that was Derek Poljoni.

1b. Orlanth's horses Crisis and Rage, driven by his charioteer Mastakos are definite part of the Arming of Orlanth, which is one of the critical myths. If it's a choice between getting roflstomped by actual cavalry and seemingly abandoning a key part of Orlanth's myths, culturally conservative Orlanthi will double down on Being More Like Orlanth. And the not-culturally conservative Orlanthi got eaten by Dragons at the end of the EWF.

1c. Elmal Horsefriend is probably involved. He is/was the horse god of the southern Orlanthi, but his myths seem to have the Loyal Thane mostly fighting on foot. The accepted method seems to be weaponthanes appeared to be to use horses to get somewhere, but fight on foot. Note that weaponthanes on fast horses are the ones that don't need to be ransomed when a cattle raid fails. Later, you got the whole Monrogh debate, with Elmal the Loyal Thane trying to prove he wasn't Elmal Orlanththrall, and the kinstrife among the Elmali. Note the Prax Yelmalio cult wasn't able to keep hold of their horse culture in the face of Praxian opposition, and the Pol Joni were. The Yelmalio temple is also way over the other side of Prax.

1d. Storm Bull is absolutely involved, as the major shared god between the Lightbringer and Waha mythos. Among Praxians, Orlanth is just another spirit cult, but a Storm Bull initiate shares a religion with Praxian Storm Bulls. Weirdly, Storm Bulls will be one of the major trade enablers - trade between Praxians and outsiders may be done as ritual  gift exchanges between the Lightbringer Storm Bull, and his Issaries offsider, and the Praxian Storm Bull, and his shaman offsider, and then the gifts shared.

2. It's a trade town that isn't on a trade route.

2a. The two potential trade routes between rich, civilised Esrolia/Holy Country and the rich, civilised Dara Happa/Lunar Empire are the direct land route through what is now Sartar, and the river route via the Zola Fel and Corflu. No one sane would run a trade route along the edge of the Storm Walk mountains, which are full of up and down and has no even potential port at the other end as well as being next to the Beast Riders.

2b Note that securing the entire Zola Fel is going to require Doing Something about the Beast Riders, ideally by a chain of forts down the river, and also grabbing a port in Esrolia. Note the implied conflict of interests this implies between any Governor or Prince of Sartar and any Governor or Prince of Pavis. If the water trade route between Esrolia and the Heartlands works, then at the end of the day, Sartar can be left to the Sartarites. And if it doesn't, then whoever rules Sartar is very well positioned to get a cut of all the trade.

2c Fundamentally it's not a trade route. It's a trade source. Prax nomads want metal weapons and armor, and have animals and spirit magic matrixes and other magic to trade for them. All these goods are highly portable, and therefore a lot of value per pack animal. Pol Joni want civilised luxuries, and as well as similar things to trade as the Prax nomads have, they can also offer the right to trade from inside the walls that keep you safe from the Prax nomads you trade with.

2d The population of ~1000 probably includes transients, so you've got 400 more-or-less permanent residents, 400 kith-and-kin and 200 short termers.

3. It's not on an obvious water source. So we have a walled trading town for horse-and-cattle people that is short of water.

3a. This makes it much harder to besiege by Animal Nomads, as they don't have water for their beasts either.

3b One of the things Derek Poljoni probably did was arrange the digging of a whole lot of water storage inside the walls. How full these are determines how many horses and cattle can be kept alive for how long inside the walls, which determines how well Barbarian Town can survive a siege from Beast Riders.

3c Herders keep their herds outside the walls, closer to the water. You come into town with just the stock you're planning on selling.

3d Water is generally for sale, but prices are limited by the fact that there is water in rivers around 10 miles away. Note that being captured and sold for ransom or slavery at Pimper's Block not far to the north is the major risk in this.

3e Wells inside the walls are probably more convenient. These are probably limited in how many buckets per day, with water being moved into the cisterns.

4. There are some references to Harmast Barefoot initiating to Orlanth at Exile Town in the time of Lokymayadon, but that's before Arkat, the God Learners and the Empire of the Wyrms Friends, meaning myths are both true and unreliable.

5. As well as being short of water, it's short of fuel. While you can cook on dried beast dung, I don't think you could get a fire hot enough to do metalwork on animal dung.

5a. Because metalwork, and specifically repairing metal Praxian weapons, wood and charcoal will always have a market in Barbarian Town.

6. You can't farm outside the walls, because it is too close to Prax and the Beast Nomads. If you try and farm, then some Bison Riders, or whatever, and going to graze your crops down to stubble. Note this completely breaks the traditional Orlanthi economy, based around tribal land ownership creating a noble class and the Ernalda temple taking 20% of your grain harvest, splitting this with her Husband-Protector. 

6a Sun and wind dried meat - Boucan, Buckan or Buck - will be the major part of the diet. Bread is an imported luxury. Flour is easier to import than grain as it has more calories per kilo.

6b Ernalda is mostly a weaving goddess, not a grain goddess. Eiritha, which is what Uralda would be called around there, is probably a more important goddess. 

6c Stickpickers don't own a mount. 'Enlo' might be a nickname from them, because the weapons of both poor Orlanthi and of trollkin is the sling and the spear.

6d Carl and Cottar aren't relevant terms. More important is if you've got a hearth inside the walls or a ration of water inside the walls.

6e These rights will be linked to the ruling clans of the Pol Joni, who run the town. Probably a number of Quarters.

 6f If you cant afford to eat or drink, then you'll need to pick between the two Blocks. One is north-east, the other north west.

 

[g33k]

13 hours ago, Ian_W said:

... manuscript on Barbarian Town is indefinitely delayed...

Are you basing this upon comments from Chaosium,

or more upon the lack of comments...?

 

13 hours ago, Ian_W said:

... and I think it's where I want to set a campaign ...

Even if the ms. isn't delayed, it's really clear that it's way down the publishing queue.

 

[Ian_W]

4 hours ago, g33k said:

 

Even if the ms. isn't delayed, it's really clear that it's way down the publishing queue.

 

Which is why Im trying to set out a coherent set of thoughts on why Barbarian Town/Exilestead is where it is, and why it still exists as a settlement of 1000 or so people ...

[jajagappa]

49 minutes ago, Ian_W said:

Which is why Im trying to set out a coherent set of thoughts on why Barbarian Town/Exilestead is where it is, and why it still exists as a settlement of 1000 or so people ...

The intersection of the trail past Stormwalk Mountain (i.e. a sacred Storm Bull/Orlanth pilgrimage route) with trails running north-south from Swenstown and Pimper's Block down to the Bandori Valley, Monkey Ruins, and Cam's Well. The more verdant lands hug the Storm Mountains, so good land for the Pol-Joni to graze.

I tend to think of Barbarian Town as something out of the Wild West - often lawless, sometimes a new Rune Lore (sheriff) comes to town to clean things up, then they depart and it returns to its rugged ways. Pol-Joni horse-and-cattle folk, Storm Bulls going between Stormwalk and the Block, Gagarthi bandits... and sometimes wild broo that must be hunted down and destroyed.

[Ian_W]

32 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

The intersection of the trail past Stormwalk Mountain (i.e. a sacred Storm Bull/Orlanth pilgrimage route) with trails running north-south from Swenstown and Pimper's Block down to the Bandori Valley, Monkey Ruins, and Cam's Well. The more verdant lands hug the Storm Mountains, so good land for the Pol-Joni to graze.

I tend to think of Barbarian Town as something out of the Wild West - often lawless, sometimes a new Rune Lore (sheriff) comes to town to clean things up, then they depart and it returns to its rugged ways. Pol-Joni horse-and-cattle folk, Storm Bulls going between Stormwalk and the Block, Gagarthi bandits... and sometimes wild broo that must be hunted down and destroyed.

The actual Wild West was a lot more regulated, especially about being armed in town, than the mythical Wild West. We remember the Shootout at the OK Corral because it was so rare - the great and the good of the cow towns wanted the cowboys to be able to get drunk, laid and lose their money gambling without being worried about being stabbed or shot in the back.

Hmmm..

To Provide against Carrying of Deadly Weapons

Section 1. It is hereby declared unlawful to carry in the hand or upon the person or otherwise any deadly weapon within the limits of said city of Tombstone, without first obtaining a permit in writing.

Section 2: This prohibition does not extend to persons immediately leaving or entering the city, who, with good faith, and within reasonable time are proceeding to deposit, or take from the place of deposit such deadly weapon.

Section 3: All fire-arms of every description, and bowie knives and dirks, are included within the prohibition of this ordinance.

— Tombstone City Ordinance Number 9 Effective April 19, 1881, ^[48]

However, something like that probably should go in Casino Town rather than Barbarian Town.

However, Barbarian Town/Exile Stead is a cow town without water. Its not on either river. It should be either north or south of where it is. And it's survived for a good long time, so there has to be a reason for that.

Where it is doesn't make sense for horse and cattle people - unless Derek Poljoni put the town as a hillfort on top of underground water, knowing he could dig wells and cisterns, and therefore put his new town somewhere that was bad for him, but worse for the Praxians.

This means that Our Heroes will need to be very aware of water.

It's an interesting question as to whether the hillbilly Orlanthi - who, by the way, have no King - regard the Pol Joni as kin or as Praxians.

I'm thinking they regard them as Praxians ... which means bushwhacking will be attempted if the Cattle Bastards try and graze on our high valleys.

[jajagappa]

12 minutes ago, Ian_W said:

However, Barbarian Town/Exile Stead is a cow town without water. Its not on either river. It should be either north or south of where it is. And it's survived for a good long time, so there has to be a reason for that.

Well, this depends on what map you are using. The one in the Guide is not correct vs. Greg's Master Maps. 

Best current reference is what Jeff has shared and is available at the Well of Daliath site: JR-Dragon-Pass-sketch-map.png (2048×1978) (chaosium.com)

Now, Barbarian Town is certainly not on any significant river, but there are likely seasonal streams coming down from the Storm Mountains. It's most likely similar to somewhere on the backside of the Sierra Nevada range (e.g. Reno, Carson City). The majority of rain will certainly fall on the Heortland side with the majority falling on or around Bullpen Mountain going down the Martof River, but I doubt it all does. I haven't seen Jeff's vegetation map of that section to confirm though.

 

[Ian_W]

When you're trying to keep cattle alive, intermittent streams don't mean much.

Reno is next to the Truckee. Carson City is next to the Carson River.

Cow towns go next to water.

Barbarian Town appears to not follow this rule.

 

[Ian_W]

7 Barbarian Town's walls aren't especially impressive - a mixture of local drystone and wood, carted across the hills from the forest about 15km north. The walls are about the height of a man, about as thick as they are wide and faced with a ditch about two meters deep and 3 meters across. Each of the four gates has a bridge, which does not retract but can be pulled up.

7a Derek wasn't owed favours by dwarfs or giants or whatnot, so Barbarian Town is a good old built-by-pick and hand-cart bronze age hillfort. {ty Joerg for picking up the important difference between Mr Goildentooth and Mr Poljoni, and that I shouldnt accidentally confuse them them]

7b The watch towers are six meters high, plus an observation platform ten meters above that.

8 The town is separated into four quarters, with a town square that has the bronze statue of Derek Pol Joni and the Lightbringers temple in the middle. Three of the quarters are controlled by Pol Joni and one, by ancient treaty, by Baboons. The Storm Bull temple, which has a Waha shrine, is in Baboon Town. Each quarter has it's own well, and each quarter is responsible for its own cisterns. The Four Elders must agree on the appointment of the Sheriff, and on any amendment to the Posted Town Rules. The Sheriff appoints Deputies, which are generally off a list provided by each of the Quarter Elders.

8a Derek knew the Baboons had two things he needed - the political status of an Independent tribe in Prax, and knowledge of and access to the local Praxian spirits. A deal was therefore done, that included a quarter within the new town, as and when it was built. {ty Joerg for picking up the important difference between Mr Goildentooth and Mr Poljoni, and that I shouldnt accidentally confuse them them]

8b While generally Prax nomads need to be oath bound to come into Barbarian Town, Baboons just rock up to the gate, go 'Ook' and get let in. They can come and go as they wish. Stuff they carry can get inspected, and be subject to the Posted Town Rules.

8c  Baboon shamans have first call on travellers asking for magical training.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Ian_W
I shouldnt accidentally type Mt Goldentooth's name when I mean Mr Poljoni. They are two very different people. TY Joerg

[David Scott]

Exile Stead is unusual in that it's the only Praxian settlement of any kind. There's a few useful refs:

Pavis GTA (2012) page 57. Tells us Orlanth is the patron god, and Praxians who have not sworn allegiance to Derek and the Pol Joni are refused entrance. Derik is the town's founder and patron. There are a few other useful details, such it's very defendable.

The Guardian Hills gives a good photo reference.

The Pol-Joni Tribe gives the outline of the tribe

I'd certainly put one of the Major Orlanth Adventurous, one of the Minor Ernalda, Issaries and Waha temples in there.

[Joerg]

 

On 12/12/2023 at 1:48 AM, Ian_W said:

1b. Orlanth's horses Crisis and Rage

These are two magical steeds owned by Mastakos, and may or may not be actual sky creature horses.
 

 

On 12/12/2023 at 1:48 AM, Ian_W said:

3. It's not on an obvious water source. So we have a walled trading town for horse-and-cattle people that is short of water.

Given the fact that already Harmast's kin has settled this location (as farmers), I think it a safe assumption for there to be an aquifer fed by the meltoff from the Storm Mountains reliably feeding local wells throughout most of the year. Barbarian Town is not an oasis as it is not part of the drylands but of the wetland eastern foothills of the mountains.

There being reliable wells may explain its role as a trading town.

The trasients would be the herder portion of the tribe. The cattle are standard Orlanthi cattle bred with a magical Pentan steppe bull Derik liberated from the Opili horse nomads some time after the Battle of Quintus Vale.

 

On 12/12/2023 at 1:48 AM, Ian_W said:

4. There are some references to Harmast Barefoot initiating to Orlanth at Exile Town in the time of Lokymayadon, but that's before Arkat, the God Learners and the Empire of the Wyrms Friends,

 

meaning myths are both true and unreliable.

 

  These two statements are true, but IMG not causally connected.

 

IMG Barbarian Town does have agriculture. For most of its recent incarnation, the Pol Joni have warded off other Praxian tribes from occupying the place, and the recent influx of Dundaelos refugees would have increased that agricultural portion of the population. Praxian herds entering here need a lot of guards to avoid being slaughtered or sold off.

 

2 hours ago, Ian_W said:

7a Jaldon wasn't owed favours by dwarfs or giants or whatnot, so Barbarian Town is a good old built-by-pick and hand-cart bronze age hillfort.

...

8a Jaldon knew the Baboons had two things he needed - the political status of an Independent tribe in Prax, and knowledge of and access to the local Praxian spirits. A deal was therefore done, that included a quarter within the new town, as and when it was built.

The only role Jaldon played in the establishment of the Pol Joni town was that his great raid had aggravated Derik Pol Joni enough that he quested mightily to put that ancient recurring hero to rest again. While the Pol Joni ride with Jaldon in the Barbarian Horde in the WBRM / Dragon Pass boardgame, that is a way more recent reincarnation/summoning of the hero,

I don't think that Jaldon would be welcome in the town.

 

13 hours ago, Ian_W said:

When you're trying to keep cattle alive, intermittent streams don't mean much.

Reno is next to the Truckee. Carson City is next to the Carson River.

Cow towns go next to water.

Barbarian Town appears to not follow this rule.

The Pol Joni practice nomadic pastoralism and rarely bring their herds to town. They roam the Pol Joni March, comprised of the Good Place and the Better Place, the area where the seasonal streams die off in the dry season, with the cattle probably following the furthest extent of their water-bearing portions as that recedes. The pasture is year-round fertile (to Praxian standards).

The people of Barbarian Town are in the same position as the Marcher Barons further south, east of the Bandori tribe.

 

The Pol Joni tribe is a source of breeding mares (horses, not zebras) for the Zebra Riders to breed their infertile cross-breed cavalry zebras, and it is likely that they provide the same service to the Issaries mule breeders, who may have some donkey herds for fertilizing such breeding mares with mules. Dorasar found his zebra-rider ally Olgkarth among the Pol Joni when he collected allies for the construction of New Pavis. There might be some donkey breeders in Barbarian Town, and zebra riders bringing breeding war zebra stallions may be a common event, too.

[Ian_W]

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

IMG Barbarian Town does have agriculture. For most of its recent incarnation, the Pol Joni have warded off other Praxian tribes from occupying the place, and the recent influx of Dundaelos refugees would have increased that agricultural portion of the population. Praxian herds entering here need a lot of guards to avoid being slaughtered or sold off.

 

The only role Jaldon played in the establishment of the Pol Joni town was that his great raid had aggravated Derik Pol Joni enough that he quested mightily to put that ancient recurring hero to rest again. While the Pol Joni ride with Jaldon in the Barbarian Horde in the WBRM / Dragon Pass boardgame, that is a way more recent reincarnation/summoning of the hero,

I don't think that Jaldon would be welcome in the town.

 

The Pol Joni practice nomadic pastoralism and rarely bring their herds to town. They roam the Pol Joni March, comprised of the Good Place and the Better Place, the area where the seasonal streams die off in the dry season, with the cattle probably following the furthest extent of their water-bearing portions as that recedes. The pasture is year-round fertile (to Praxian standards).

The people of Barbarian Town are in the same position as the Marcher Barons further south, east of the Bandori tribe.

 

The Pol Joni tribe is a source of breeding mares (horses, not zebras) for the Zebra Riders to breed their infertile cross-breed cavalry zebras, and it is likely that they provide the same service to the Issaries mule breeders, who may have some donkey herds for fertilizing such breeding mares with mules. Dorasar found his zebra-rider ally Olgkarth among the Pol Joni when he collected allies for the construction of New Pavis. There might be some donkey breeders in Barbarian Town, and zebra riders bringing breeding war zebra stallions may be a common event, too.

Thank you for picking up the error on Jaldon/Derek - typing Jaldon for Derek was my brain and fingers not talking well enough. Jaldon is the *threat*, and Derek was trying to build something that can last. This also means not building too big.

This links with my thoughts about Baboons - when they can enter with an Oook, and the second cousin of a Khan has to beg entry, then you're making pointed social comments about insiders and outsiders. For Baboons, this experience of urban life is getting them ready for the Return to Glory. 

A bucket at a time artesian water can support some livestock, but when you can only effectively control further than a bowshot from the town walls, keeping other people from grazing on your agriculture is a very tough thing. The Pol Joni are, fundamentally, a migratory Praxian herding tribe, rather than the traditional Orlanthi mix of herding and farming on your tribal lands.

The Orlanthi up the slope are a lot more conventional, but again, an unguarded field is a pasture.

If a small group of Praxians are near town, it's hard to tell if they are there to raid or trade, until they actually do. So the aussumption is going to be 'Could be either, mebbe'.

"It's a hard land for hard people. If you want to be soft, go back to Sartar."

I'm setting the game in 1580ish, because I really, really dislike the Hero Wars as a gaming setting.

I think there will be well-watered gardens inside Town, but these will be small. I think the Ernalda shrine at Orlanth's temple will have a hand-raised barley field inside the walls. Note that a lack of agriculture cripples Ernalda's cult *economy* - if you get 20% of the harvest, and there is no harvest, then your Rune Priestess needs to work for a living.

Storm Bull's cult economy is also ... different ... around here, because proximity to The Block there's so many damn Storm Bulls on call. If you are the only one for three farms who is an Initiate of The Bull, then you are Storm Bull for all the associated rites on various holy days, so you regularly get a present of a free feed, a new shirt and the occasional axe. But if they are as common as dirt, then you don't automatically get tapped on the shoulder to be the paid escort for the Issaries pedlar.

Generally the diet is 'Around here, meat is free, but you pay for water by the glass and bread by the slice'.

This is not the major town of the Pol Joni - thats further north. This is the end of the line.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Ian_W

[Ian_W]

14 hours ago, David Scott said:

Exile Stead is unusual in that it's the only Praxian settlement of any kind. There's a few useful refs:

Pavis GTA (2012) page 57. Tells us Orlanth is the patron god, and Praxians who have not sworn allegiance to Derek and the Pol Joni are refused entrance. Derik is the town's founder and patron. There are a few other useful details, such it's very defendable.

The Guardian Hills gives a good photo reference.

The Pol-Joni Tribe gives the outline of the tribe

I'd certainly put one of the Major Orlanth Adventurous, one of the Minor Ernalda, Issaries and Waha temples in there.

The photos are essentially Australia west of the ranges. It is country I am middlingly familiar with 😉

Exile Stead wasn't Praxian, when it was founded back on the past by the Orlanthi that Harmast ended up being initiated by, which is pretty much why it got burned down by Praxians.

I'd argue Barbarian Town also wasn't Praxian when it was founded by Derek Poljoni, who was a worshipper of Orlanth (and almost certainly a Wind Lord, and by now a Thunder Brother) ... but when the Pol Joni became a Praxian tribe, they kept their town.

Yeah, Orlanth is the main god in the Lightbringer temple, and Issaries is absolutely known and respected but Eiritha is the women's goddess around here. In Barbarian Town, Ernalda is fundamentally a weaving goddess.

Waha's temple is in Baboon Town.

Time to start working on a map, major NPCs and a rumours table, I think.

 

Stashing these here

 

https://www.academia.edu/32438737/Water_Systems_in_Bronze_and_Iron_Age_Israel_Encyclopedia_of_the_History_of_Science_Technology_and_Medicine_in_Non_Western_Cultures_

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0305440310002207

Edited December 14, 2023 by Ian_W

[Ian_W]

On 12/13/2023 at 9:24 AM, jajagappa said:

Well, this depends on what map you are using. The one in the Guide is not correct vs. Greg's Master Maps. 

I think I've got it.

The old Exilestead, where Harmast initiated, is on the Sounder's River, up from where it turns into the Good Canal. It got burned by Praxians years ago.

The new Barbarian Town, build by Derek Poljoni, is a bit further south, between the two rivers, but on a hilltop that has water accessible by wells.

[Erol of Backford]

On 12/13/2023 at 10:52 PM, Ian_W said:

The old Exilestead, where Harmast initiated, is on the Sounder's River, up from where it turns into the Good Canal. It got burned by Praxians years ago.

The new Barbarian Town, build by Derek Poljoni, is a bit further south, between the two rivers, but on a hilltop that has water accessible by wells.

What year was it first built and if multiple reeditions were erected, why were they not on top of each other (due to the same need for a water source) or was it rebuilt in some seemingly better defensive location, thus the need to relocate it, not far for the water source?

 

If it were burned did all the inhabitants die, were carried off or did they conduct a fighting retreat as the ton burned?

Was it originally a watch tower and is it currently somewhat circular now, possibly like an Orlanth rune?

Are the walls a wooden palisade or are they of stone?

Assuming its a hilltop fort of sorts and it usually supports 750-1000 persons what is a currently detailed Sartarite city that it might  be compared to?

What would it be like in the year 1600?

We'll assume a natural spring or underground aquifer with enough flow to support that many people and several hundred cattle and horses?

Is it maybe a head or tail of a sleeping Serpent of old?  

Do they use heavy crossbows in lieu of short ranged self bows the pigmy's on impalas use on the ramparts assuming there are some defensive walkways?

Being there are horses there would there not be an Elmali shrine there as well?

[Cassius]

11 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Assuming its a hilltop fort of sorts and it usually supports 750-1000 persons what is a currently detailed Sartarite city that it might  be compared to?

If compared, it would be with a Sartarite town : cities are bigger. In Sartar, the smallest may be Alone, 1200 inhabitants. The only town* description I can remember is Red Cow Fort (600 inhabitants) in the Red Cow campaign (vol. I, The Coming Storm, p. 21-28). Details, maps and plans I know are for villages, hamlets (Apple Lane,  Mernyr's landing) or cities (Jonstown, Clearwine).

*: Oh, there is Runegate too (900 inhabitants), in the GM Screen Pack, p. 65.

 

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Do they use heavy crossbows in lieu of short ranged self bows the pigmy's on impalas use on the ramparts assuming there are some defensive walkways?

I'd say crossbows are only known and handled by (some) dwarves (and by Leonardo in the God Forgot isles, for sure 🙂).

[Erol of Backford]

5 hours ago, Cassius said:

Mernyr's landing

I have and know the others but will look at Mernyr's... ty!

[Cassius]

2 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

I have and know the others but will look at Mernyr's... ty!

It's in the Adventures book of the Starter Pack.

[Erol of Backford]

Found it, it's so new I forgot.

A small farm community tends this abandoned estate and lands. See A Rough Landing in Book 4: Adventures (pages 5–23).

Something like Red Cow works but was thinking as it had been built and sacked a few times possibly the foundations and or part of the walls were stone?

[Cassius]

The Red Cow Fort may surely be the most suitable for your purpose.

And why not stone walls ?