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mikuel

Lazy man's way to bolt Mythras to Glorantha

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I want to run a Glorantha campaign with RQ6/Mythras rule set without too much effort.  I downloaded the Cult one-pagers.  I know about the encounter generator and plan to use it.  I've thought about trying to somehow convert the rule in Heroquest about being born with 3 runes into the game somehow, but that might be too much work.  I thought I would just use the Folk magic rules as is.  Is there any other quick fixes that would be easy to implement?  

 

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Although the new RQ is definately going to be very tailored to Glorantha, I also see hardly any issues using RQ6/Mythras pretty much as written. RQ6/Mythras feel like an updated RQ3 anyway.

Folk Magic is Basic Magic ( in RQG it may be called Spirit Magic once again ), and can port directly across. Theism ports across to Rune Magic, and Sorcery remains as is.

As an aside, I would actually use the term 'Rune Magic' to present two forms of higher magic: Rune Magic (Theism), and Rune Magic (Sorcery).  It just seems to feel right to me.

Sorcery apparently has the most changes in the new version of RQ, but that doesnt mean you need to alter the Mythras rules to portray it.  Mythras Sorcery is a more recent version of Sorcery as initially presented in RQ3, and I feel it is a better version of those rules.

If setting the game in Central Genertela then you don't need to worry too much about Sorcery anyway.

I think anyone beyond Initiate rank in a religious cult may be referred to as a 'Godtalker' in Glorantha, so I would probably use that term instead of Acolyte.

I would definately introduce Runes using the Passions rules. HQ Glorantha describes the Runes quite well, so it's easy see what aspect or traits are associated with particular Runes.

So you could get the Passion bonus with any action relevant to the traits associated with that Rune, as well as any Rune Magic that uses that Rune as a trapping.

I would probably start an individual Rune at the suggested starting chance for a Passion which is a concept or ideal, so 30%+(POW+INT). Pethaps you could possibly replace INT with CHA, I'm unsure.

I cannot see anything that would need to change with the character gen as written in the core rules. Mythras is designed very well in regards to evoking ancient and medevial settings, so I would just tailor what I want depending upon the region the character is from in Glorantha.

So in addition to the usual Passions, I would just add 1D3 Runic Passions and be pretty much good to go.

Edited by Mankcam
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1 hour ago, Mankcam said:

Although the new RQ is definately going to be very tailored to Glorantha, I also see hardly any issues using RQ6/Mythras pretty much as written. RQ6/Mythras feel like an updated RQ3 anyway.

Folk Magic is Spirit Magic, and ports directly across. Divine Magic ports across to Rune Magic, and Sorcery remains as is.

Sorcery apparently has the most changes in the new version of RQ, but that doesnt mean you need to alter the Mythras rules to portray it.  Mythras Sorcery is a more recent version of Sorcery as initially presented in RQ3, and I feel it is a better version of those rules.

If setting the game in Central Genertela then you don't need to worry too much about Sorcery anyway.

I think anyone beyond Initiate rank in a religious cult may be referred to as a 'Godtalker' in Glorantha, so I would probably use that term instead of Acolyte.

I would definately introduce Runes using the Passions rules. HQ Glorantha describes the Runes quite well, so you can easily see what aspect or traits are associated with particular Runes.

So you could get the Passion bonus with any action relevant to the traits associated with that Rune, as well as any Rune Magic that uses that Rune as a trapping.

I would probably start an individual Rune at the suggested starting chance for a Passion which is a concept or ideal, so 30%+(POW+INT). Pethaps you could possibly replace INT with CHA, I'm unsure.

I cannot see anything that would need to change with the character gen as written in the core rules. Mythras is designed very well in regards to evoking ancient and medevial settings, so you just tailor what you want depending upon the region the character is from in Glorantha.

So in addition to the usual Passions, just add 1D3 Runic Passions and you would be pretty much good to go.

Works really well like that. This is pretty well how we have played it for the past many years in Rq6/Mythras- since it was launched. The additional Gloranthan weapons and shields you will find here

https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/rq6-charts-and-tables/ (see the Gloranthan update link + shield link there. 

If you want to see local weaponry and combat styles used and available you might want to take a look at https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2017/04/16/pregenerated-characters-for-pavis/ and infer from there (Sartar, Esrolia, Fonrit, Pavis, Prax...) - that is of course only one view. 

https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/starting-a-glorantha-rq6-campaign-before-adventures-in-glorantha/

There used to be floating around the progressive spells (folk magic spells) variety which we used prior to AiG. We thought the float around variety was a bit too effective compared to rune magic - you might want to tune that to be die roll based or just stay with the bog standard folk magic. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mankcam said:

 

Not sure where Mysticism fits into Glorantha. If using some earlier HW influences it probably slots into Kralori magic, and possibly some Lunar magic.

However that doesnt feel right to me, given that my views of Glorantha are shaped by the RQ2/RQ3 era.

I tend to envision Gloranthan spells just falling into two categories: Basic Magic and Rune Magic, it feels less cumbersome and fits the setting material.

Note that I view Rune Magic as having three paths: Theism, Animism, and Sorcery. I just dont fit Mysticism neatly into that model, although I guess it could be another form of Rune Magic. However it doesn't feel like it fits in with Rune Magiic  (I even dislike including Animism in this model, although those rules in Mythras are too good to ignore). 

It doesn't mean the Mysticism rules would be redundant for me however. Given the 'jedi-superhero' like nature of the abilities, I may be inclined to retrap them as HeroQuest Abilities, although Gifts probably also cover this space.

Edited by Mankcam

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I guess in my Glorantha there are monasteries in the mountains - deeper mysteries in Fonrit and farther into the Pamaltela, Fonrit is dotted with old ruins and hideaways surrounded by jungle - who knows what secrets Pamaltelan plains and the East isles hold. Mystery that is Kralorela, Vormain, Teshnos and even Lunar might know. Ban has opened up and Kingdom of War appears, surely there is room there. So plenty of room to put Mystics in... 

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Yes there certainly is alot of room for mysterious foreign magic in Glorantha. 

It just doesnt fit with my RQ2/RQ3 preconceptions, as I would just use Theism or Sorcery to portray Mystics and exotic magic from foreign lands. 

But thats just me - the rules for Mysticism are really cool, so no reason for them not to be used RAW in other people's portrayal of Glorantha.

Edited by Mankcam

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5 minutes ago, Mankcam said:

Not sure where Mysticism fits into Glorantha. If using some earlier HW influences it slots into Kralori magic.

However that doesnt feel right to me, given that my views of Glorantha are shaped by the RQ2/RQ3 era.

It doesn't mean the Mysticism rules would be redundant for me however. Given the 'jedi-superhero' like nature of the abilities, I may be inclined to retrap them as HeroQuest Abilities, although Gifts probably also cover this space.

In a way, Gloranthan Mysticism is the result of Heroquesting - spending time in meditation of various kinds, then entering otherworlds in a deeper meditative state and approaching the root power of the ability in mystical understanding. These meditation techniques can vary from Zen-like meditation through various forms of trance-inducing activities (breathing, dancing, martial arts katas, austerities) towards ecstatic methods or tantric activities. Certain schools might use magic of one or the other kind as preparatory activities for mystical experiences. The abilities are something like a side product of the progression towards the Ultimate.

For me as a practitioner of neither shamanism nor deeper  meditations it is hard to define where to place a border between shamanic trances and mystical ones. Religious rapture may occur all of the major magical systems of Glorantha - the Western experiences of Solace and Joy, theist experiences of their godworld, animist communion with the spirit world, or mystical practices reaching past these on paths of illumination, draconic wisdom or Vithelan enlightenment.

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How to make implementing Glorantha with any BRP system easy?

With Mythras you can lean on the preparatory work done by Loz and Ken for the Adventures in Glorantha primer that saw a distribution of 500 copies at Gencon 2015 (IIRC) which has been the base for e.g. @hkokko's contributions to the Encounter Generator.

Using old RQ2 or RQ3 material doesn't require too much adaptation, really. There was hardly any official sorcery material out for RQ3 Glorantha, and none at all for RQ2 Glorantha, so this blank slate can easily be filled with the Mythras version - although probably limited (at least in previous experience) in some way by schools or grimoires. I cannot really speak about sorcery in the Mongoose products, I never played that game (except one MRQ2 game with Loz in preparation of his Harreksaga, set in the early Hero Wars era). There are vague descriptions about which group uses which kinds of sorcery in the Third Age Glorantha documents for HeroQuest in its various incarnations. Depending on your setting, people on this forum will happily swamp you with Gloranthan information about what you are likely to encounter. Sorcery spells may be stolen from or traded with other practitioners or schools.

You'll have to decide how much Glorantha information you are willing to inflict on yourself and on your players prior to the game, and how close you want to stick to published versions of Glorantha. Much has been published which creates its own variant canon, even by official publishers of Glorantha - the perhaps most variant publications are by Mongoose, but numerous fan publications take off on other tangents or use alternate recent or old histories for places which have seen more development since, and even older Issaries era publications show variant Gloranthas when compared to the new official line. This doesn't mean they don't provide good material for gaming in Glorantha, though.

Your own campaign is going to create disturbances in the official timeline anyway, which may cause you to re-interpret information you may encounter later, anyway, if you play that campaign for more than a couple of sessions. And if you don't, and start some other game elsewhere in Glorantha, no big trouble, either.

 

So: adjust only those rules you think you are going to encounter. Player choices may take you to strange portions of the rules, but even then you can ignore quite a bit. Steal (/get inspiration) from whichever product you can access easily, or ask around for specifics.

Edited by Joerg
triplicate post due to hangup of the interface
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17 minutes ago, hkokko said:

I guess in my Glorantha there are monasteries in the mountains - deeper mysteries in Fonrit and farther into the Pamaltela, Fonrit is dotted with old ruins and hideaways surrounded by jungle - who knows what secrets Pamaltelan plains and the East isles hold. Mystery that is Kralorela, Vormain, Teshnos and even Lunar might know. Ban has opened up and Kingdom of War appears, surely there is room there. So plenty of room to put Mystics in... 

The Dragonewt magical effects are a form of mystic power, correct? They use a mechanic similar to divine magic to acquire the effects, but differ in duration and other aspects.

Do you mean monasteries or hermitages?

Arcane Lore p.41 mentions Dojos of draconic martial arts even for the Dragon Pass area, and from the text apparently in Modern Age Karse.

Edited by Joerg
triplicate post due to hangup of the interface, putting some content in instead.
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4 minutes ago, Mankcam said:

Yes there certainly is alot of room for mysterious foreign magic in Glorantha. 

It just doesnt fit with my RQ2/RQ3 preconceptions, as I would just use Theism or Sorcery to portray Mystics and exotic magic from foreign lands. 

That's about the official word of Greg how this is handled in HeroQuest, and I think that it depends on the school or method of mysticism you use.

 

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I totally forgot about the Dragonewts. Yes I agree that draconic dances are very mystical in nature, you cannot get much more mysterious then these unusual behaviours and rites.  

However originally I just would have viewed this as Rune Magic using the Dragon Rune, which has always been portrayed as one of the more exotic and obscure Runes.

But if wanting to use the Mythras book to its fullest potential, then I can see why Mysticism could be used for Draconic magic.

Edited by Mankcam

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32 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The Dragonewt magical effects are a form of mystic power, correct? They use a mechanic similar to divine magic to acquire the effects, but differ in duration and other aspects.

Do you mean monasteries or hermitages?

Arcane Lore p.41 mentions Dojos of draconic martial arts even for the Dragon Pass area, and from the text apparently in Modern Age Karse.

Have to research the meaning of the difference :-) 

I meant in the traditional context of Shao-Lin+ and their mystical varieties in popular mindset transmogrified to MGF YGMV...

 

draconic martial arts were in my mind... Thanks for the reference...

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Monasteries basically are somewhat closed societies which can (and often will) interact with the communities outside. Mediaeval christian monasteries provided centers of learning for the general clergy, for missionaries, and explored new technologies, too. Plenty of these were situated in cities rather than on remote mountain sides, although such could exist side by side (e.g. in Cyrenai, modern Girne, on Cyprus, which had an ancient hermitage high in the coastal mountains which later became a crusader castle, and a benedictine abbey much closer to the city proper, within its agricultural hinterland, plus small monastic communities inside the old city maintaining their own chapels). Dojos are centers for teaching, but don't necessarily involve a monastic or hermit lifestyle.

Hermitages isolate the inhabitants from the world, and fairly often from one another as well. In Gloranthan context, the Retirement Towers of Sun County are hermitages, but so are high mountain caves, treetops, and similar reclused places for meditation or preaching. (Ironically, these recluses often attracted a lively group of followers, and some were basically projecting their insights in sermons. Maybe to an extent that preaching became a meditative practice...)

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3 hours ago, Joerg said:

With Mythras you can lean on the preparatory work done by Loz and Ken for the Adventures in Glorantha primer that saw a distribution of 500 copies at Gencon 2015 (IIRC) which has been the base for e.g. @hkokko's contributions to the Encounter Generator.

Actually Loz and Pete and it was 50 copies only. 

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11 hours ago, hkokko said:

There used to be floating around the progressive spells (folk magic spells) variety which we used prior to AiG. We thought the float around variety was a bit too effective compared to rune magic - you might want to tune that to be die roll based or just stay with the bog standard folk magic. 

I don't understand what your talking about here.  Could you explain?  

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13 hours ago, Mankcam said:

So you could get the Passion bonus with any action relevant to the traits associated with that Rune, as well as any Rune Magic that uses that Rune as a trapping.

What do you mean when you say "Rune Magic that uses that Rune as a trapping."  Please explain.  

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33 minutes ago, mikuel said:

I don't understand what your talking about here.  Could you explain?  

Sorry, I was unclear.

you have two options for folk magic. 

 

Option 1. Use the folk magic from Mythras book as is

Option2. Search in the net Progressive folk magic house rules. They make few of the folk magic spells progressive (bladesharp 1, bladesharp2...bladesharp 6) with each level bringing one extra point of damage for example in the case of bladesharp. If choosing to use progressive- this proved to be excesively strong in our campaign compared to theistic magic (which is called rune magic in Glorantha). we ended up toning the effect down a bit by making it variable as in AiG 

 

your campaign will be fine with either option....

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Coming back to your original question, I integrated the idea of Runes as Character attributes to our Gloranthan campaign. In short, Devotion skill was replaced buy three rune "skills", that define the strength of the rune spells. The rune values also acted as passions and personality traits (e.g. a PC with high Movement rune is always restless). Each rune spell was provided through a certain rune associated with the cult.

In general my group really enjoyed the runic affinities. My biggest problem as the GM was creating the cults and balancing the magic. If you are interested, there are more details at The Design Mechanism forum at http://designmechanism.freeforums.org/rune-affinities-t275.html, and some cult examples with the spells assigned to runes: http://designmechanism.freeforums.org/some-cult-writeups-and-a-bunch-of-new-spells-t298.html

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For progressive folk magic, grab a copy of Legend, also by Nash & Whittaker, from Mongoose publishing. The rules plug right into Mythras. The book will only set you back $1 on www.drivethrurpg. 

I've used Mythras in Glorantha for a couple of games. Classic RQ in Glorantha has everyone knowing a small amount of low-powered magic, which is easy to use and readily available. Also, cults overlap professions and daily life.I just use the folk magic as is. It fills the need.

I have three rules standards for Mythras in Glorantha:

1) Magic points recover at a rate equal to Luck points every 3 hours. 

2) For most cultures, Folk Magic is a standard skill, and starts as base+40%. Characters have 1 folk magic spell per 20% skill, from their profession.

3) As part of your profession, westerners get Invoke (career grimoire) at base. Others get either Binding or Devotion and Exhort (career god), at base. These skills are in addition to your other advanced skills, and can be raised as career skills. Yes, this system heavily favors the Theists. In the Avalon Hill RQ material, the authors explain that non-wizards are not taught to manipulate magic. Characters get one spirit, spell, or miracle per 20% in the appropriate skill. 

I really haven't addressed the runes as specific game effects. My plan is to use binding yourself to runes as the mechanism for gaining cult Gifts. 

Edited by pachristian
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Progressive folk magic is fairly powerful compared to the stock RQ6 version - but that models RQ2/3, so its up to you whether that is a bug or a feature. 

I ran a Gloranthan RQ6 game, and in it you had three (usually) Runes, which were both Passions and Magic skills. Your Rune skill was used instead of your Devotion skill for Theist Magic. Your Spirit Rune ability was also the same as your Trance ability. A grimoire was a separate Invocation skill, but every grimoire was associated with a separate Rune as well. If I was to do it again, I think that Shaping skill would be the same as your Law Rune. Binding and Exhort didn't really map to Runes at all, but represented more general magical skills (and it makes sense that RQ worked at a higher level of detail than RQ did - for example, in RQ you could have a character that was potentially very powerful but unskilled vs a character that was less powerful but more consistent, and this distinction didn't really exist in HQ, which measures more raw effectiveness. 

This system was fairly generous to theists as far as raw power, but restricted them a bit in flexibility - only a rare Orlanthi would be equally strong in all the gods runes, for example. This seemed to map to the HQ representation of Glorantha pretty well. Animism depended heavily on which spirits your tradition had access to, and less on your individual runes, but this again seemed to map to HQ fairly well. Sorcery more problematic, but ideas about sorcery seem to have been rapidly evolving anyway, and RQ6 sorcery was definitely more of a simple playable system than in the past (it was far more fun and flexible in play than RQ3 sorcery, while avoiding those parts of RQ3 sorcery that really bugged people. 

I also made it explicit that the simple folk magic spells could be used by any culture, and that commoners in a sorcerous culture would generally use Folk magic the same as theists (being simple sorcery spells that they would learn by rote with little understanding). 

And then a lot of what you needed in terms of spells etc was in the MRQ2 cults books, available at the time for a dollar, and the rest you could wing from RQ3.

Feats a la HQ2 are a bit difficult, and I don't think there is an easy solution. A bit play it by ear, and use RQ6 Gifts where it works. When trying to do RQ6 cult write ups of Gloranthan cults, I found myself using the Gifts system quite a bit. 

Mysticism I had no problem with - it's clearly a well documented part of Glorantha, but for the most part its in the East Isles and Kralorela that it matters. In central Genertela in the third or second age, the only real mystic tradition you needed to deal with is Illumination, and you could either straight adapt the RQ2/3 rules for it, or model Illumination using the Mysticism rules, either worked. OK, there is Lunar Mysticism as well - you can either just treat it as 'normal magic plus Illumination', or make Lunar Black Moon Illumination into its own Mystic tradition. Unless you have a Lunar PC, you never need to worry about it. The Lunars in this system get a big advantage from being able to use their Lunar Phase for multiple Runes anyway, which gives them easy access to a wider range of magic. Mysticism also works OK for Dragon Magic. Mysticism in RQ6 isn't a great fit for my current understanding of Mysticism in Glorantha, but it is serviceable. 

 

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