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New Supplements and Additions for RQG


Wolfpack48

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Just wondering what we might be seeing of new supplemental material for the RQG.  We're all excited to see the new edition, and doubly excited to see new material for the game.  One thing we thought might be a lot of fun would be a Monsters & Treasures book that contained all the baddies, but also a book of **new** magic items and possible treasure finds.  The Plunder book is great, but would love to see lots of new items for the system -- smaller treasures up the epic finds.

Also, the Spell Cards for D&D are pretty sweet, and I could see these being a hit for Spirit and Divine magic in RQ as well. 

The one thing we have found we the older RQ supplements is that information is spread all over the place, which great for serendipity, but not so great if you're trying to track something down.  An RQ Encyclopedia/Reference Guide -- similar to the Prosopaedia for all of Glorantha would be hugely helpful.

 

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1 hour ago, Wolfpack48 said:

An RQ Encyclopedia/Reference Guide -- similar to the Prosopaedia for all of Glorantha would be hugely helpful.

If only there was a massive compilation of all Gloranthan lore?  I have to expect that it would be at least two really big books.  Probably a whole additional book just as an atlas.

:)

Jeff, get on that.

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3 minutes ago, styopa said:

If only there was a massive compilation of all Gloranthan lore?  I have to expect that it would be at least two really big books.  Probably a whole additional book just as an atlas.

:)

Jeff, get on that.

;) I have the 2 really big books.  I'm talking about more of an alphabetic quick reference guide.  E.g., the short and easy to find version.  Ever see Encyclopedia Cthuliana?

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Just now, Wolfpack48 said:

;) I have the 2 books.  I'm talking about more of an alphabetic quick reference guide.  E.g., the short and easy to find version.

:)

I'd second the spell cards idea too - I've noticed people like those a lot (although they'd be of more value in the current divine-spell paradigm, where you use THAT SPELL up until you get it back).  

I was thinking of 'sets' of cards for available spells generic and by cult, so everyone would have the generic, universally-available 'deck', while each cult would have a sub-deck just for them.

I have a daughter who's a professional graphic designer so they'll possibly look a lot better than if I did them.

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https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6022-rqg-hints-about-releases/?do=findComment&comment=87167

  • Quickstart -- stripped-down rules, 1 adventure
  • Core Rulebook & Bestiary, plus Screen Pack -- There's the Monsters book you asked for
  • GM's Guide & Scenarios Book
  • Heroes Book and Dragon Pass Campaign

Honestly, I'm not much for "cards" as RPG supplements.  Too fiddly, prone to getting lost:  if you have more than a few cards, it gets faster (and IME it quickly gets notably-faster) to skim a list on 1 sheet of paper than to flip through a stack of cards; and at the end of the night, digging them out of sofa-cushions and from under the armchair is a pain!  YMMV, and if others see it as a popular option I certainly won't complain if Chaosium realizes another revenue stream.  Everyone'sGWV, after all, and spell-cards at other tables isn't a problem at mine!

RE an "encyclopedic reference" that ISN'T the GtG ... I'd love to see such a thing, in the format of

  • name of entry
  • 1-line precis
  • source citation(s) with page/book listed

But in an active system (with new supplements coming out every few months) such a book will quickly become out-dated... so what about an e-Index "living document"?

 

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19 minutes ago, styopa said:

If only there was a massive compilation of all Gloranthan lore?  I have to expect that it would be at least two really big books.  Probably a whole additional book just as an atlas.

:)

Jeff, get on that.

Just as an afterthought -- how about a slipcover for those bad boys?

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24 minutes ago, g33k said:

Just as an afterthought -- how about a slipcover for those bad boys?

:) Just to be really, really clear.  I'm talking about a Encyclopedia Cthuliana style quick reference book.  I do love my giant volumes, though (with slipcase).  ;)

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2 hours ago, g33k said:

Honestly, I'm not much for "cards" as RPG supplements.  Too fiddly, prone to getting lost:  if you have more than a few cards, it gets faster (and IME it quickly gets notably-faster) to skim a list on 1 sheet of paper than to flip through a stack of cards; and at the end of the night, digging them out of sofa-cushions and from under the armchair is a pain!  YMMV, and if others see it as a popular option I certainly won't complain if Chaosium realizes another revenue stream.  Everyone'sGWV, after all, and spell-cards at other tables isn't a problem at mine!

PERSONALLY, no, me neither.  But I'm 50...it's my opinion that gaming groups in their 20s are characteristically different not only in their different expectations/desires of RPGs, but they approach and play them pretty differently as well.  At least that's what I've seen.

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Speaking of quick reference Glorantha, my own experience is that it has to be digital and allow cross-references and comments added to the data. The Guide is good initiate level stuff but covers only the visible part of the Iceberg. HQG has a lay worshipper's starting set, and the 13G companion volume probably is a quick initiation guide. It doesn't really help that there are oodles of alternative truths or former truths found lacking, pretty much like in the sciences.

(Quick reference for RuneQuest and pretty much all other rpg systems comes in the format of gamemasters' screens.)

 

WRT play-aids like cards - these are simply a different medium for randomized lists that you roll dice on, providing a different haptic and possibly a few unintended other game options (like using those cards instead of luck points). Both methods look the same if produced for a mobile device, btw.

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We will be doing Rune spell cards, as for many players it makes it very easy to know what Rune spells they can cast can do. Cuts down on the amount of memorization a player needs to do - and helps at the last minute realizing that Wind Words is exactly the right spell for the situation at hand.

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I love cards as long as they're an option and not required for play.

My fifth-edition D&D group uses the spell cards created by Gale Force 9, and they're a great time-saver; it's easy to flip through a set to find the spell you want, and they provide more detail than a summary sheet can.

In my Call of Cthulhu game, I print my own 3" × 5" index cards for investigators' spells and artifacts so that the players don't need to look in books at the table. Again, hugely helpful.

In both cases, though, I'd be grumpy if the cards were the only sources for the spell/artifact descriptions; I like having the canonical spell descriptions in the rulebook, with the cards serving only as quick references.

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Self-discipline isnt everything; look at Pol Pot.”
—Helen Fielding, Bridget Jones: The Edge of Reason

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1 hour ago, Jeff said:

We will be doing Rune spell cards, as for many players it makes it very easy to know what Rune spells they can cast can do. Cuts down on the amount of memorization a player needs to do - and helps at the last minute realizing that Wind Words is exactly the right spell for the situation at hand.

That's great news.  For groups I've played in that use spell cards, we found that the cards are a better reminder of magic you have available and spares us rifling through the rulebooks.  With the many cults and magic systems available, they might be doubly useful in RQ.  Would love Spirit and Sorcery packs too.

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8 hours ago, Wolfpack48 said:

...but also a book of **new** magic items and possible treasure finds.  The Plunder book is great, but would love to see lots of new items for the system -- smaller treasures up the epic finds.

I'm not particularly hot on this idea, either.  It's the D&D syndrome that 'more items' is better.  I remember character sheets with a list of magic items running down the page.  That's never been what RQ was about.

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1 hour ago, Yelm's Light said:

I'm not particularly hot on this idea, either.  It's the D&D syndrome that 'more items' is better.  I remember character sheets with a list of magic items running down the page.  That's never been what RQ was about.

Wellll... I wasn't really thinking in terms of more items is better, and the goal certainly wouldn't be to have a giant list of magic items down the character sheet.  Are you assuming that anyone who has played D&D before is a Monty Hauler?  As with most things in Glorantha, magic items typically have more story and depth, and the Plunder guide in Borderlands & Beyond is a perfect example of the interesting items characters could come across in the travel.  More accurate goals for a 'treasure' supplement would be to create interesting adventure hooks for these items, present some common magical items adventurers might encounter, and add flavor to the world. Oh, and for the record, even in our AD&D playing days back in the 70's (yep, been doing this for awhile), I think most our characters had maybe 3 items max at the time they retired, at something like 10th level.

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6 hours ago, Jeff said:

We will be doing Rune spell cards, as for many players it makes it very easy to know what Rune spells they can cast can do. Cuts down on the amount of memorization a player needs to do - and helps at the last minute realizing that Wind Words is exactly the right spell for the situation at hand.

Better include a shovel too - for that moment they realize the forest of trees tumbling towards them isn't going to be swayed by wind words and they better get to diggin !!!

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11 hours ago, Wolfpack48 said:

  One thing we thought might be a lot of fun would be a Monsters & Treasures book that contained all the baddies, but also a book of **new** magic items and possible treasure finds.  The Plunder book is great, but would love to see lots of new items for the system -- smaller treasures up the epic finds.

 

 

Here's a great list for your perusal: 

 

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5 hours ago, styopa said:

Not at all.  D&D (well, mostly AD&D) was built significantly around the aspiration to have more and better magic items.  RQ was not; in fact, even as prevalent as magic is in Glorantha, the aspiration is generally more mundane, toward skills, status, and roleplaying.  There are, count 'em, four pages in RQ2 devoted to magic (actually called 'special') items.

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In truth, nearly every encounter in every Chaosium RQ adventure, at least one NPC has magic items, many times, two or three NPCs possess one, if not several magic items.  It's a foregone conclusion that the PCs are going to be walking around with  a list of magic items they got as plunder.  Plunder even being the name of the official book listing some of the more remarkable magic items.

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I like how magic is tied to natural elements in Glorantha.

Various metals and ores had properties of varied resilience and durability, as well as additional attributes not consistent with earthly anologies of those metals (hence why I prefer to use their Gloranthan titles, like 'Ur-metal' for instance).

The ability to store magical energy and to store temporary magical effects was a natural property of the ancient crystalised blood of dead gods which had become part of the earth. So Crystals were mined as a sought-after commodity, so that they could be adorned or crafted into items, thus creating Charms, which is almost a currency amongst Cults and  members.

Storing more permanent magics often required Truestone (in RQ3 there was the Enchantment skill, but I think Truestone may have been the implied component if transferring permanent POW to create magic items in Glorantha).

There also appeared to be a magical resonance in the world which imbues various unique properties in different regions, which could be use to make 'special' items. Also items of great heroic or emotional significance often accumulated resonance from their owners' deeds, thus acquiring unique magics. Good examples of items imbued with magical resonance are found throughout the RQ2 Plunder Book.

Alchemy and Herbcraft also exisit where special properties can be concocted, some of which are magical in nature. 

So magic items certainly exist in Glorantha, but the economy of such is very different to games like D&D or Rolemaster, especially in regards to items that have infinite uses. It really makes artifacts much more valuable, and adds a lot of colour to the setting.

Sorry to digress somewhat :)

Edited by Mankcam
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4 hours ago, Pentallion said:

In truth, nearly every encounter in every Chaosium RQ adventure, at least one NPC has magic items, many times, two or three NPCs possess one, if not several magic items.  It's a foregone conclusion that the PCs are going to be walking around with  a list of magic items they got as plunder.  Plunder even being the name of the official book listing some of the more remarkable magic items.

If you count power crystals and spell matrices as magic items, maybe.  And again, maybe in RQ3 (I have no experience of running that), but definitely not in RQ2.  Taking the example of Apple Lane (which happens to be at the top of my scenarios box), aside from what might be hiding in Gringle's Pawn Shop and a few items in treasure hordes including immovable idols and statues, there are exactly two mobs that are listed with magic items:  Gringle himself and Quackjohn.  None of the other NPC's or monsters, including the leaders of the trolls and newtlings in the caves of the Rainbow Mounds, has any.

To be fair, Snakepipe Hollow has a number of magic items, but it's also a MUCH higher-level adventure than most, highly deadly, and even most of the magic items there are wielded by leaders of gangs, priests, or Bigclub.

I've owned Plunder, and designed 17 items that are in our little unofficial Plunder II.  But if you notice, the vast majority of those 17 are either mundane, practical items with very specific, limited uses (of which there were a fair number in the original Plunder) or hero-level items.  I also started with Basic D&D and played AD&D 1st edition heavily until I lost interest in it (coincidental with my discovery of RQ and multiple other RPG's that weren't so completely setting-independent).

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6 hours ago, Yelm's Light said:

If you count power crystals and spell matrices as magic items, maybe.

And why wouldn't you? or Rune Metal items? These may be common categories of magic items, but that is clearly what they are. 

6 hours ago, Yelm's Light said:

 And again, maybe in RQ3 (I have no experience of running that), but definitely not in RQ2.  Taking the example of Apple Lane (which happens to be at the top of my scenarios box), aside from what might be hiding in Gringle's Pawn Shop and a few items in treasure hordes including immovable idols and statues, there are exactly two mobs that are listed with magic items:  Gringle himself and Quackjohn.  None of the other NPC's or monsters, including the leaders of the trolls and newtlings in the caves of the Rainbow Mounds, has any.

That is a very atypical example. Snakepipe Hollow, Pavis, Big Rubble, Griffon Mountain, all feature plenty of magic items. In all of them, seeking specific magic items is often a major plot driver, too. And then there is RuneMasters, which was full of characters dripping with magic items (though alas, fairly dull ones). 

 

6 hours ago, Yelm's Light said:

To be fair, Snakepipe Hollow has a number of magic items, but it's also a MUCH higher-level adventure than most, highly deadly, and even most of the magic items there are wielded by leaders of gangs, priests, or Bigclub.

I've owned Plunder, and designed 17 items that are in our little unofficial Plunder II.  But if you notice, the vast majority of those 17 are either mundane, practical items with very specific, limited uses (of which there were a fair number in the original Plunder) or hero-level items.  I also started with Basic D&D and played AD&D 1st edition heavily until I lost interest in it (coincidental with my discovery of RQ and multiple other RPG's that weren't so completely setting-independent).

Assuming everyone plays the game the way you do when there is ample evidence otherwise is not a strong argument. 

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I think spell cards are a bit of a no-brainer for Chaosium - I gather they sell ok, and the amount of time taken to create them is nowhere near the amount of editorial effort required of a several hundred page book. But they also are very very much an optional extra for this player. 

What I am most concerned about is getting creature stats and long cult (sorcery schools and spirit society) write ups into player hands. I expect the initial release will do an OK job at the equivalent of 'Cults of Sartar' to get us started - I want the equivalent of Cults of Terror, Gods of Glorantha, major sorcery schools, Cults of Prax (now probably animist traditions of Prax) in print as soon as we can. And I know there are a bunch of stuff that is not likely to be a commercial or creative priority for Chaosium, but I hope we get at least the minimum game information (such as a 'Gods of Glorantha' style short writeup) available quickly, even if it might take a long while for a 'long form' writeup to appear - I hope this doesn't take too long. 

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On 24.4.2017 at 4:30 PM, Wolfpack48 said:

One thing we thought might be a lot of fun would be a Monsters & Treasures book that contained all the baddies, but also a book of **new** magic items and possible treasure finds.  The Plunder book is great, but would love to see lots of new items for the system -- smaller treasures up the epic finds.

When I think of magical items for RuneQuest I am thinking about the magical economy behind producing them.

RQ3 had rules for enchantments, allowing spellcasters to sacrifice permanent POW for lasting magical effects. But who were the magicians behind these? It sure doesn't look like each rune master has produced all of his enchantments himself. And for a master enchanter to use the recipient's (or some other donor's) POW for crafting an enchantment requires a quite extended Mindlink, or otherwise a well-timed one cast by the donor. And lots and lots of trust.

Heroquest items are another way to turn a mundane item into something magical. The item needs to be successfully identified with its legendary counterpart during the quest situation where it is used, and somehow (not sure about the RQ mechanic I would choose for this) selected as a heroquest reward.

I am not entirely sure if I understood this correctly, but it seems that you can do shortened quests dealing just with a section of a myth, for a lesser reward. Sartar did so with his Westfaring portion of the Lightbringers' Quest to find a wyter for his new kingdom. I do wonder how this partial quest would be exited without being stranded on the Hero Plane, though. The God Learners perfected this method, possibly to the point where questers in the Clanking City did a selection of the Sword Story quest over and over again, under controlled conditions, to mass-produce magical swords (that also only worked under controlled conditions, which was fine as far as their creators were concerned).

Some items get magical or holy by association. For my (yet unfinished, at least in the English language long form) scenario I created a few treasures that had been found in the Pavis Rubble four generations ago, then been used as part of the clan items for communal magic. Part of the scenario is to get these items released to serve as funeral gifts for the Asrelia priestess who helped bring them to the clan, in exchange for magical blessings. One of these was a set of funerary gifts found in Pavis, consisting of a Kimantoring lead mask and a copper axe that originated in Nochet. The lead mask lent power to any ritual that involved dealing with Darkness, and the copper axe was good for any warlike earth rites, in both cases giving a significant bonus to the ceremony (or lowering its difficulty, if we talk HeroQuest rules).

Part of the fun designing these items was to let them have combination effects. When analyzed for their magic as single pieces, these items are ok augmentation pieces. When used together, one item's augmentative effect can be used actively controlled by the other. Take that, rote Lhankor Mhy Analyze Magic...

I was thinking of allowing defective crystals of the gods as ingredient for alchemical storage of magic, in order to create potions or one-use pre-cast spells that only need a trigger. Having to enchant each potion with a magic point matrix would be overkill in terms of POW usage. Relying on sorcerous Duration doesn't look like a valid alternative, either. Still, alchemists' magical products are a staple RQ2 type of plunder. Enabling player characters to create some takes care of some of their downtime between adventures, cutting down on training time.

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13 hours ago, Yelm's Light said:

Taking the example of Apple Lane (which happens to be at the top of my scenarios box), aside from what might be hiding in Gringle's Pawn Shop and a few items in treasure hordes including immovable idols and statues, there are exactly two mobs that are listed with magic items:  Gringle himself and Quackjohn.  None of the other NPC's or monsters, including the leaders of the trolls and newtlings in the caves of the Rainbow Mounds, has any.

Let's not forget that those are both intended IIRC to be very much 'beginning adventures'?

5 hours ago, davecake said:

What I am most concerned about is getting creature stats and long cult (sorcery schools and spirit society) write ups into player hands. I expect the initial release will do an OK job at the equivalent of 'Cults of Sartar' to get us started - I want the equivalent of Cults of Terror, Gods of Glorantha, major sorcery schools, Cults of Prax (now probably animist traditions of Prax) in print as soon as we can. And I know there are a bunch of stuff that is not likely to be a commercial or creative priority for Chaosium, but I hope we get at least the minimum game information (such as a 'Gods of Glorantha' style short writeup) available quickly, even if it might take a long while for a 'long form' writeup to appear - I hope this doesn't take too long. 

For me it's sorcery.  My players like it, and as one of them has started a campaign with his own friends, in their party of 4 there are 3 with varying levels of sorcery and 1 shaman.  I get the sense that shamanism will (hopefully) be covered reasonably well in the Dragon-Pass-focused RQG, but it sounds like sorcery will barely even be an afterthought (only included because of the retcon of Lhankor Mhy use of sorcery).

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

When I think of magical items for RuneQuest I am thinking about the magical economy behind producing them.

I think to Yelm's Light's point there is a clear and strong anti-standard-magic-items theme in Glorantha, cf the God Learners, the Clanking City (Greg's not much for utilitarianism, or empiricisim apparently).  

In my view this was nothing more than a meta reaction against D&D's gobs and gobs of more-or-less-standardized 'bucket o magic'.

The D&D approach cheapens the importance and meaningfulness of magic items in context when players are digging through forty different weapons filling their monstrous bag of holding, trying to decide "do I use the +2 spear or the +1 bastard sword or the +4 glaive without proficiency?".  

Further most items (in D&D) even had NO game mechanical underpinning either; how would one even make a +1 sword in D&D? (shrug) to say nothing of the more esoteric items like a decanter of endless water or deck of many things. 

RQ(3 at least) systematized it, explaining pretty clearly how such items were produced, and thus constraining magic items conceptually to those that could indeed be made.  The crux here is how you run the use-constraint: either the default is caster-use (and POW can to be spent to make it generally usable) or the default is everyone-use (and POW can be spent to constrain who can use it).  The former makes for a very magic-item poor world since even if the characters kill the big bad guy, likely her Super Awesome Magic Weapon can't be used by anyone but her.

I don't believe magic items have to be astonishingly scarce to be meaningful; I believe a world like Glorantha *suffused* with magic everywhere would have lots of people (whoever could afford it) toying with more durable uses of magic than a 5 minute spirit magic spell.

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