New Supplements and Additions for RQG

[davecake]

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

When I think of magical items for RuneQuest I am thinking about the magical economy behind producing them.

RQ3 had rules for enchantments, allowing spellcasters to sacrifice permanent POW for lasting magical effects. But who were the magicians behind these? It sure doesn't look like each rune master has produced all of his enchantments himself. And for a master enchanter to use the recipient's (or some other donor's) POW for crafting an enchantment requires a quite extended Mindlink, or otherwise a well-timed one cast by the donor. And lots and lots of trust.

There were some fairly perverse aspects to the RQ3 magic economy, one of which was that there was a strong incentive to keep ones personal POW low so that you got more POW gain rolls, which for priests and shamans immediately translated into more Rune Magic or more Fetch (or more Enchantements). 

I always figured that there were a LOT of sorcerous magic items - sorcerers, unlike other magicians, had no obvious primary use for their POW gains, and magic items were a lot more useful to sorcerers, freeing up Free INT or boosting spells. 

But then, I never liked any of this. Most of the many ongoing 'lets fix sorcery' discussions in the early 90s were about making the effective Duration etc of sorcery limited by POW or something related to it, rather than skill. 

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

I was thinking of allowing defective crystals of the gods as ingredient for alchemical storage of magic, in order to create potions or one-use pre-cast spells that only need a trigger. Having to enchant each potion with a magic point matrix would be overkill in terms of POW usage. Relying on sorcerous Duration doesn't look like a valid alternative, either. Still, alchemists' magical products are a staple RQ2 type of plunder. Enabling player characters to create some takes care of some of their downtime between adventures, cutting down on training time.

If you want RQ2 potions, use the RQ2 rules, or something like them. I don't think potions and the like work on the RQ3 style enchanting rules. 

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, styopa said:

RQ(3 at least) systematized it, explaining pretty clearly how such items were produced, and thus constraining magic items conceptually to those that could indeed be made.  The crux here is how you run the use-constraint: either the default is caster-use (and POW can to be spent to make it generally usable) or the default is everyone-use (and POW can be spent to constrain who can use it).  The former makes for a very magic-item poor world since even if the characters kill the big bad guy, likely her Super Awesome Magic Weapon can't be used by anyone but her.

If the cults are behind some of the magical items, I suppose the user restrictions might be limited to cultists in good standing or of a certain rank rather than personal use. Likewise a clan (or possibly tribal) heirloom (which would mean that the wielder would need to have a certain kind of tattoo). I would think that Balastor's Axe might be restricted to champions of Pavis with its full magic.

(Once again - could an Analyze Magic spell discern items which unlock their magic only in the hands of certain users, or in connection with other items? Or is the correct user as wielder of the item necessary?)

If you take an item from an enemy cult, you'll likely be unable to profit from (much of) its magic. You might get a better deal from sacrificing the piece to your deity, or from ransoming the item for some "ordinary" magic.

Quote

I don't believe magic items have to be astonishingly scarce to be meaningful; I believe a world like Glorantha *suffused* with magic everywhere would have lots of people (whoever could afford it) toying with more durable uses of magic than a 5 minute spirit magic spell.

There are other types of durable magic - e.g. blessings obtained from sacrifice, pilgrimages, or questing that provide augmentative or protective magic.

Active magic from items is more constricted - tossing lightning, fire or healing probably requires the array of RQ3 enchantments and possibly MP matrices and/or POW spirits, or directly bound magic spirits (possibly with MP matrices useable only by them, but because of that also refillable by them).

Binding spirits (or essences/elementals, or demons, or godlings) can be done with friendly spirits (theist cults and shamans), or with summoned or otherwise captured neutral or even hostile spirits dominated by shamans and sorcerers. The less cooperative the spirit, the more conditions need to be enchanted to enslave the entity. (I shudder to imagine how the entity residing in Elric's Stormbringer was bound...)

38 minutes ago, davecake said:

There were some fairly perverse aspects to the RQ3 magic economy, one of which was that there was a strong incentive to keep ones personal POW low so that you got more POW gain rolls, which for priests and shamans immediately translated into more Rune Magic or more Fetch (or more Enchantements). 

Professional enchanters... possibly retired priests or wizards, or apprentice-level Malkioni monks.

The RQ(3) POW economy was severely broken, at least in my gaming experience. In 10 years of playing RQ3 I saw maybe as many successful POW gain rolls in my parties. We didn't have officiating god-talkers, so that rule never came into play.

38 minutes ago, davecake said:

I always figured that there were a LOT of sorcerous magic items - sorcerers, unlike other magicians, had no obvious primary use for their POW gains, and magic items were a lot more useful to sorcerers, freeing up Free INT or boosting spells. 

But then, I never liked any of this. Most of the many ongoing 'lets fix sorcery' discussions in the early 90s were about making the effective Duration etc of sorcery limited by POW or something related to it, rather than skill. 

I think that skill is more appropriate - sorcery is something you know. (Animism is something you have - charms and spirit companions.) It shouldn't be dependent on POW - that's already required to get your spells through (if not powered).

Sorcerers (whether wizards, alchemists, or specialist crafters) work their long-duration spells under workshop conditions, using extensive preparation and all the pluses a munchkin can think of - right day of the week, right planetary constellation, holy days, helpful artefacts, sympathetic ingredients...

38 minutes ago, davecake said:

If you want RQ2 potions, use the RQ2 rules, or something like them. I don't think potions and the like work on the RQ3 style enchanting rules. 

RQ2 had rules for creating potions? All I found are prices, not even production times or additional requirements (workshop, tools).

[Richard S.]

14 minutes ago, Joerg said:

 

RQ2 had rules for creating potions? All I found are prices, not eveis production times or additional requirements (workshop, tools).

Beginning of "Other Skill", under alchemists guild. It doesn't give Ingredient lists or other requirements so that GM's can tailor their games and/or worlds. Brewing Is 1 week/potency level.

[Yelm's Light]

13 hours ago, davecake said:

And why wouldn't you? or Rune Metal items? These may be common categories of magic items, but that is clearly what they are. 

The only magic involved with rune metal items is keying them to the individual owner and eliminating the magic-dampening effect of iron.  Do they inherently register to Detect Magic in your world?  In that case, your Rune-levels must veritably glow.  As for crystals/matrices, they're pretty much an extension of the spell casting rules, but at least they have some form of origin story, if very general (the blood of the gods or inscribed conduits for casting).

13 hours ago, davecake said:

That is a very atypical example. Snakepipe Hollow, Pavis, Big Rubble, Griffon Mountain, all feature plenty of magic items. In all of them, seeking specific magic items is often a major plot driver, too. And then there is RuneMasters, which was full of characters dripping with magic items (though alas, fairly dull ones).

Aside from Snakepipe Hollow, which I cited myself, you're talking about huge campaign packs, and even in those the vast majority are crystals/matrices.

13 hours ago, davecake said:

Assuming everyone plays the game the way you do when there is ample evidence otherwise is not a strong argument. 

Again, you miss my point, which Styopa understood and obviated the need to regurgitate it. The game system is what I'm talking about.  Anyone is free to alter the rules in whatever way he/she pleases, but that doesn't change what's in the book(s).

Edited April 26, 2017 by Yelm's Light

[Pentallion]

1 hour ago, Yelm's Light said:

The only magic involved with rune metal items is keying them to the individual owner and eliminating the magic-dampening effect of iron.  Do they inherently register to Detect Magic in your world?  In that case, your Rune-levels must veritably glow.  As for crystals/matrices, they're pretty much an extension of the spell casting rules, but at least they have some form of origin story, if very general (the blood of the gods or inscribed conduits for casting).

Aside from Snakepipe Hollow, which I cited myself, you're talking about huge campaign packs, and even in those the vast majority are crystals/matrices.

Again, you miss my point, which Styopa understood and obviated the need to regurgitate it. The game system is what I'm talking about.  Anyone is free to alter the rules in whatever way he/she pleases, but that doesn't change what's in the book(s).

I think there are two conversations going on here and also differing views on what constitutes magic items.  First off, at least two of us are responding to the comment that RQ characters don't have lists of magic items like D&D players do.  That has nothing to do with "the game system" so what you're talking about is not the comment we're responding to, we're challenging the assumption that RQ characters don't acquire long lists of magic items.  Also, we differ on the view that crystals/matrices are not magic items.  They are.  They are the most common form of magic item.  What in D&D is a sword+2 in RQ is anything with a bladesharp 2 matrice on it.  What in D&D is a ring of magic missiles in RQ is a ring with disruption matrice on it.

So you can't rule out crystals and matrices as magic items, because they are.  And PCs acquire somewhat long lists of them.  If you play the published material, you can't help but acquire long lists of such items.  That's not a YGMV thing nor an alter the rules thing, that's the game as it is written.  That is literally what's in the books.

[hkokko]

The cards are not really interesting to me.

as long as we are near the wishing well..

what I would like to see is first one  sandboxy campaigns of Griffin Mountain and original Pavis/Big Rubble scope and quality. Several introductory one off type scenarios droppable 'anywhere'. One railroady campaign of Borderlands / River of Cradles quality and scope. then books of Sun County, Shadows on.Borderlands type expanding on those areas. Then another sandboxy one. Areas where they are set does not matter too much as long as it is relatively reachable from Dragon Pass and Prax with reasonable moving of characters. Tarsh, Esrolia, Prax maybe Dragon Pass area which we have not seen yet...Maybe wolf pirate saga spanning the world.

all of these should be original not rehashes or reprints of already sometimes published material. All of these exposing something interesting from Glorantha.

I would prefer that these not be sartar cattle raiding stuff but that is just me.

Edited April 27, 2017 by hkokko

[Mankcam]

hkokko pretty much just sumed up my views on a RuneQuest wish list. Focusing supplements on Central Genertela is fine, using Sartar as the core then moving outwards. However it needs to keep moving outwards in all directions, definately down to the Sixths of Holy Country, and north to the Lunar Provinces.

Although I'm worried that Western Genertela gets neglected . Throw in some Malkioni stuff and I'ld be pretty happy

I can take or leave the cards. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Mankcam

[Pentallion]

yeah.  I agree with Hkokko.  I will always feel like you guys missed a golden opportunity to follow up the Guide To Glorantha with a world spanning Harreksaga type adventure that took the players to all the amazing places that the GtG touched upon.

I hope such an ambitious project will be in the works soon.

[Yelm's Light]

8 hours ago, Pentallion said:

I think there are two conversations going on here and also differing views on what constitutes magic items.  First off, at least two of us are responding to the comment that RQ characters don't have lists of magic items like D&D players do.  That has nothing to do with "the game system" so what you're talking about is not the comment we're responding to, we're challenging the assumption that RQ characters don't acquire long lists of magic items.  Also, we differ on the view that crystals/matrices are not magic items.  They are.  They are the most common form of magic item.  What in D&D is a sword+2 in RQ is anything with a bladesharp 2 matrice on it.  What in D&D is a ring of magic missiles in RQ is a ring with disruption matrice on it.

So you can't rule out crystals and matrices as magic items, because they are.  And PCs acquire somewhat long lists of them.  If you play the published material, you can't help but acquire long lists of such items.  That's not a YGMV thing nor an alter the rules thing, that's the game as it is written.  That is literally what's in the books.

When there are 40 pages just in the DMG (and hundreds more in ancillary books) devoted to magic items and 4 in RQ2 plus Plunder (with even some of those items being completely mundane and non-magical), yeah, it clearly is a system thing.  D&D was all about the items you had or could get.  RQ2 is not.  What isn't clear about this?

As far as a spell matrix is concerned, you're paying temporary POW for every use; it's not an inherent (free) power of the item itself like a +x weapon.

OK, you win.  Crystals and matrices are magic items, in the same way that spell books are.  They're ubiquitous.  In the end, they're effectively reservoirs for POW (crystals) or INT (matrices).  And they are quite literally the majority of all magic items, by far.  They add nothing to the game but power level.  No roleplaying, no scenario hooks.  Much like most magic items in D&D.

[Wolfpack48]

6 hours ago, Yelm's Light said:

When there are 40 pages just in the DMG (and hundreds more in ancillary books) devoted to magic items and 4 in RQ2 plus Plunder (with even some of those items being completely mundane and non-magical), yeah, it clearly is a system thing.  D&D was all about the items you had or could get.  RQ2 is not.  What isn't clear about this?

You could just as easily make the argument that 40 pages of magic items were added to create lots of variety, color and story hooks.  Why would you assume that quantity equates with the designer's goal?  We could also argue that the AD&D creators were secretly wanting us to do nothing but fight monsters when they created 3 Monster Manuals.  It's a real fallacy to assume design intent based on your logic.  I'll argue any day of the week that the Plunder guide (and the thread here -- thanks for that!) is a deeper, more creative and colorful way of describing magic items, and certainly provides more adventure hooks and ties with character background than D&D ever did.  Glorantha is simply a better realized world all around, whereas D&D was the earliest take on roleplaying, and as such, had many flaws.  But to say we shouldn't have a variety of magic items to draw inspiration from because there's some evil design intent to get us all to have hundreds of magic items on our characters sheets is, well, silly.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Wolfpack48

[Wolfpack48]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 11:10 AM, styopa said:

I think to Yelm's Light's point there is a clear and strong anti-standard-magic-items theme in Glorantha, cf the God Learners, the Clanking City (Greg's not much for utilitarianism, or empiricisim apparently).  

In my view this was nothing more than a meta reaction against D&D's gobs and gobs of more-or-less-standardized 'bucket o magic'.

The D&D approach cheapens the importance and meaningfulness of magic items in context when players are digging through forty different weapons filling their monstrous bag of holding, trying to decide "do I use the +2 spear or the +1 bastard sword or the +4 glaive without proficiency?".  

Further most items (in D&D) even had NO game mechanical underpinning either; how would one even make a +1 sword in D&D? (shrug) to say nothing of the more esoteric items like a decanter of endless water or deck of many things. 

RQ(3 at least) systematized it, explaining pretty clearly how such items were produced, and thus constraining magic items conceptually to those that could indeed be made.  The crux here is how you run the use-constraint: either the default is caster-use (and POW can to be spent to make it generally usable) or the default is everyone-use (and POW can be spent to constrain who can use it).  The former makes for a very magic-item poor world since even if the characters kill the big bad guy, likely her Super Awesome Magic Weapon can't be used by anyone but her.

I don't believe magic items have to be astonishingly scarce to be meaningful; I believe a world like Glorantha *suffused* with magic everywhere would have lots of people (whoever could afford it) toying with more durable uses of magic than a 5 minute spirit magic spell.

Now, this I can agree with.  D&D definitely used a more generic model for its magic items, which lead to a certain blandness, and a feeling almost that these items were mass produced on an assembly line somewhere.  That may be more the complaint than whether 'there are many magic items in the world.'  In our later days of playing D&D, we tended to explain +1, +2 weapons as simply being well crafted, and not necessarily magic at all.  RQ3 did an excellent job of explaining how an item might be created, simply binding in and combining spell effects to create an item that was more easily used. 

The strange thing is, we've all accepted and established that magic is prevalent in Glorantha, to the extent that all people have at least some basic magic, but that we can't accept that magic has been implanted in many objects around the world.  So are we saying here that magic is everywhere -- except in items?  Really?

Edited April 27, 2017 by Wolfpack48

[Yelm's Light]

58 minutes ago, Wolfpack48 said:

You could just as easily make the argument that 40 pages of magic items were added to create lots of variety, color and story hooks.  Why would you assume that quantity equates with the designer's goal?  We could also argue that the AD&D creators were secretly wanting us to do nothing but fight monsters when they created 3 Monster Manuals.  It's a real fallacy to assume design intent based on your logic.  I'll argue any day of the week that the Plunder guide (and the thread here -- thanks for that!) is a deeper, more creative and colorful way of describing magic items, and certainly provides more adventure hooks and ties with character background than D&D ever did.  Glorantha is simply a better realized world all around, whereas D&D was the earliest take on roleplaying, and as such, had many flaws.  But to say we shouldn't have a variety of magic items to draw inspiration from because there's some evil design intent to get us all to have hundreds of magic items on our characters sheets is, well, silly.

You yourself admit how generic the magic items are in D&D, so your first point is moot.  This isn't based on some wild, out-of-the-blue assumption; it comes from years of experience, of play, and seeing others play, at games at FLGS', cons, friends' houses, etc.  It's not because I'm some kind of Monty Haul GM (mostly since I'm pretty clearly not), and I didn't imagine those long lists of magic items.  It is, pure and simple, part of the design of the game, or it wouldn't occur over and over again.  It's no more 'evil' than the marketing of any other product.

You do realize that RQ was contemporary with D&D, right?

Could we use any more rhetorical exaggeration in that last sentence?  If you want to make a serious argument or disagree, fine.  But that kind of crap does you no service whatsoever.  It certainly doesn't lend you any credibility.

42 minutes ago, Wolfpack48 said:

Now, this I can agree with.  D&D definitely used a more generic model for its magic items, which lead to a certain blandness, and a feeling almost that these items were mass produced on an assembly line somewhere.  That may be more the complaint than whether 'there are many magic items in the world.'  In our later days of playing D&D, we tended to explain +1, +2 weapons as simply being well crafted, and not necessarily magic at all.  RQ3 did an excellent job of explaining how an item might be created, simply binding in and combining spell effects to create an item that was more easily used. 

The strange this is, we've all accepted and established that magic is prevalent in Glorantha, to the extent that all people have at least some basic magic, but that we can't accept that magic has been implanted in many objects around the world.  So are we saying here that magic is everywhere -- except in items?  Really?

I have no idea what 'we' are saying.  What *I* am saying is that items are not a lynchpin of RQ.

[g33k]

MAGIC ITEMS:

• Ubiquity of magic (spells and spirits) is actually not relevant to the ubiquity of magic items :  in some settings, "items" may just not be as viable.
• I agree that a nice big set of choices (a bigger set than in RQ2), with a lot of diversity among them, would be a Good Thing in RQG.
• I agree that any single item -- flavorful, setting-linked, story-hook'ed, interesting -- is FAR better than a bland list of dozens of "just mechanics" items that are no more than [a funky name slapped onto an item giving +X to the roll for game-mechanic X'] and zilch for context and story.

Then each group can go as magic-rich or as magic-sparse as their taste indicates.  I don't see that this conflicts with anyone's ideas, above...  But it DOES call for Chaosium to take longer on this element, creating items that have those contextual & story elements; also, it increases word-count and page-count to add all this.

So... is everyone OK with a higher MSRP and further delaying the release ???  'Cos that's the request ...  [N.B. -- we don't actually get a vote here, Chaosium will do whatever they do (and this part of things may well already be locked down due to devs/playtest/publication schedule, and not subject to input or revision (even if we got a vote.  Which we don't.) ) . ]

CAMPAIGN:

• We know that a brand-new Dragon Pass campaign is in the works, scheduled for release 2Q18 (about 4-6 months after  the core rules drop)
• We believe (at least, I believe) RQG will be a hero-wars-oriented edition of RQ, so Sartar & surrounding regions are primary topics for anything "Campaign" oriented (personally, I'd like to see a deeper look at Patriarchal Sartar & Matriarchal Esrolia as contrasting themes, particularly since they worship the same(ish) pantheon!).
• There would seem to be scope for going further afield (which this thread seems to show many grognards want) in:
• standalone / non-campaign adventure modules
• side-quests of larger campaigns
• mini-campaigns of a few linked adventures
• gee, I wish the forum offered list-embedded-in-list structure! 

What I really REALLY want to see is a HUGE push on the "Organized Play" front.  Yes, I *do* know that an OP is coming, but I'm betting my vision is grander than Chaosium's.  I want not just a campaign, but a plethora of products!  Mini-campaigns, standalone adventures, DOZENS of pre-gen PC's at MULTIPLE power-levels (from near-RQ2 starting Zero'es to experienced HeroQuest'ors), etc etc etc...  Actively incentivizing FLGS'es to encourage the OP program & RQ in general (note that this doesn't have to be financial -- how about Chaosium highlight OP games (recent, and upcoming)?  List upcoming OP games on a calendar or searchable db; banner-link to stores that pitch in this way; etc).  Maybe slowly "expire" some of the OP content out of Cult-Only status and slowly build a library of free-to-anyone content (n.b. - press release & free publicity if you drop a meaningful chunk of product as a freebie!) ...  Etc ...

 

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by g33k
structural clarity

[styopa]

23 minutes ago, g33k said:

What I really REALLY want to see is a HUGE push on the "Organized Play" front.  ...Actively incentivizing FLGS'es to encourage the OP program & RQ in general (note that this doesn't have to be financial -- how about Chaosium highlight OP games (recent, and upcoming)?  

Nothing substantive to add to a great post, except to explicitly include Roll20 and whatever other online game systems there are - specifically including (and I'd even submit this needs to be simultaneous with the core rules release, yes, even if that delays the core rules by a couple of weeks!) templates, online tools, generators, etc.

It's one place where D&D *severely* dropped (and continues to drop) the ball.  Given the prevalence of online play today, as soon as Billy or Mary gets their grubby hands on the rules that they can open a browser and have those tools available would be HUGE.

[g33k]

1 minute ago, styopa said:

... specifically including (and I'd even submit this needs to be simultaneous with the core rules release, yes, even if that delays the core rules by a couple of weeks!) templates, online tools, generators, etc.

I know that AlterEgo is updating Metacreator to CoC7, and I believe they are interested in hitting RQG after that.  I do not know the status of licensing/etc, or if this will come to fruition (and if so, what would be the timescale).

While I would generally agree with waiting a few weeks, Chaosium has stated their intent to have RQG "out" (I presume, in this context, this means "in FLGS's") in time for the Christmas shopping-season.  I think it'd be a mistake to hold THAT up to get the online component.  Back in college, I worked a FLGS for a while.  Most of the RPG stuff that I saw sell, I *helped* sell by assisting Mundanes to select something appropriate for their gamer.

[Yelm's Light]

2 hours ago, g33k said:

MAGIC ITEMS:

• Ubiquity of magic (spells and spirits) is actually not relevant to the ubiquity of magic items :  in some settings, "items" may just not be as viable.
• I agree that a nice big set of choices (a bigger set than in RQ2), with a lot of diversity among them, would be a Good Thing in RQG.
• I agree that any single item -- flavorful, setting-linked, story-hook'ed, interesting -- is FAR better than a bland list of dozens of "just mechanics" items that are no more than [a funky name slapped onto an item giving +X to the roll for game-mechanic X'] and zilch for context and story.

Then each group can go as magic-rich or as magic-sparse as their taste indicates.  I don't see that this conflicts with anyone's ideas, above...  But it DOES call for Chaosium to take longer on this element, creating items that have those contextual & story elements; also, it increases word-count and page-count to add all this.

So... is everyone OK with a higher MSRP and further delaying the release ???  'Cos that's the request ...  [N.B. -- we don't actually get a vote here, Chaosium will do whatever they do (and this part of things may well already be locked down due to devs/playtest/publication schedule, and not subject to input or revision (even if we got a vote.  Which we don't.) ) . ]

CAMPAIGN:

• We know that a brand-new Dragon Pass campaign is in the works, scheduled for release 2Q18 (about 4-6 months after  the core rules drop)
• We believe (at least, I believe) RQG will be a hero-wars-oriented edition of RQ, so Sartar & surrounding regions are primary topics for anything "Campaign" oriented (personally, I'd like to see a deeper look at Patriarchal Sartar & Matriarchal Esrolia as contrasting themes, particularly since they worship the same(ish) pantheon!).
• There would seem to be scope for going further afield (which this thread seems to show many grognards want) in:
• standalone / non-campaign adventure modules
• side-quests of larger campaigns
• mini-campaigns of a few linked adventures
• gee, I wish the forum offered list-embedded-in-list structure! 

What I really REALLY want to see is a HUGE push on the "Organized Play" front.  Yes, I *do* know that an OP is coming, but I'm betting my vision is grander than Chaosium's.  I want not just a campaign, but a plethora of products!  Mini-campaigns, standalone adventures, DOZENS of pre-gen PC's at MULTIPLE power-levels (from near-RQ2 starting Zero'es to experienced HeroQuest'ors), etc etc etc...  Actively incentivizing FLGS'es to encourage the OP program & RQ in general (note that this doesn't have to be financial -- how about Chaosium highlight OP games (recent, and upcoming)?  List upcoming OP games on a calendar or searchable db; banner-link to stores that pitch in this way; etc).  Maybe slowly "expire" some of the OP content out of Cult-Only status and slowly build a library of free-to-anyone content (n.b. - press release & free publicity if you drop a meaningful chunk of product as a freebie!) ...  Etc ...

Seems to me there's something we can do...like a new fanzine with player-contributed stuff that covers some of the areas you've mentioned, especially scenarios in other places, or even the same places.  For me, I've primarily specialized in Prax/Dragon Pass/Sartar, so that'd be the best area for me to deal with.

As for delays, I'd rather have the game ASAP, as long as the quality doesn't suffer.  I can come up with campaigns with little trouble, but I'd really like to know the actual system, which would make writing them easier.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Yelm's Light

[g33k]

38 minutes ago, Yelm's Light said:

Seems to me there's something we can do...like a new fanzine with player-contributed stuff that covers some of the areas you've mentioned, especially scenarios in other places, or even the same places.  For me, I've primarily specialized in Prax/Dragon Pass/Sartar, so that'd be the best area for me to deal with.

The existing CoC-centric "Cult of Chaos" program allows members to submit their own adventures to the Cult, for other Keepers to run; I presume RQ will be the same.  Once I get my hands on RQG, I plan to submit scenarios to the Cult.  I don't know what sorts of adventures, or where I'll place them; we'll see how inspiration strikes once I've seen the material.

There is also, of course, just making material generally-available (via fanzine, here on BRPCentral, personal blogs, etc) without limiting it to an OP venue.

I believe both to be good options, and I hope to see plenty of each!

 

43 minutes ago, Yelm's Light said:

As for delays, I'd rather have the game ASAP, as long as the quality doesn't suffer.  I can come up with campaigns with little trouble, but I'd really like to know the actual system, which would make writing them easier.

I'd like it "ASAP" too.  I'll be satisfied if they make it before (USAian) Thanksgiving, since "Chrismas" is Chaosium's target and TurkeyDay marks the start of the Christmas Frenzy (at least in US markets); happy if they beat All-Hallows-Eve, and thrilled if they can drop it in time for GenCon50 (as will Chaosium, I suspect!)

It's possible, I think, that a GM who knows RQ2/RQClassic well, has the Quickstart/Demo module in-hand (July 1 for general availability), and has studied the hints in the "Designing the new RuneQuest" blogs & other announcements, might be able to build a 99%-compatible campaign even before the official rules drop (though I suspect the exact details of character-generation will remain uncertain until we have the full rules).  Certainly much of the material can be outlined/designed -- it's 90% RQ2 set in Glorantha, fer criminy's sake:  how hard is THAT for a RQ/Glorantha grognard to do seat-of-the-pants???!?

 

[styopa]

I think a lot of us are waiting for the quickstart to generate content.  I know I am.  

Why pump out an adventure or anything for RQ3.9 (ie my homebrew version) when an actual, living, supported version is right around the corner?

So we wait.  Impatiently.

[Wolfpack48]

Quote

You yourself admit how generic the magic items are in D&D, so your first point is moot.  This isn't based on some wild, out-of-the-blue assumption; it comes from years of experience, of play, and seeing others play, at games at FLGS', cons, friends' houses, etc.  It's not because I'm some kind of Monty Haul GM (mostly since I'm pretty clearly not), and I didn't imagine those long lists of magic items.  It is, pure and simple, part of the design of the game, or it wouldn't occur over and over again.  It's no more 'evil' than the marketing of any other product.

Plunder has 34 pages of magic items, which are excellent, and would be the kind of items I'd hope for in an RQG supplement.  The DMG guide has 40 pages of rather generic magic items, a few of which are somewhat interesting (usually the artifacts).  In neither case did the number of pages devoted have anything to do with expressing design intent.  Now maybe you meant item presentation shows that items weren't given the careful thought that folks at Chaosium put into them.  But to leap from that to saying that the design goal of D&D was to collect loot is a bit much.  Certainly people interpreted it that way, but our group certainly did not -- we didn't suffer from Monty Haulism either, though we certainly watched with interest when it was discussed in other gaming groups.  When we started playing RQ, we never tried to "D&Dify" RuneQuest -- the system reflected the way we were playing already.

Quote

You do realize that RQ was contemporary with D&D, right?

Since there's an excellent chance that I am older than you, I'm just rolling my eyes and moving on...

Quote

Could we use any more rhetorical exaggeration in that last sentence?  If you want to make a serious argument or disagree, fine.  But that kind of crap does you no service whatsoever.  It certainly doesn't lend you any credibility.

Hey, you agree not to assume anyone who's interested in a variety of magic items isn't trying to turn RQ into D&D, and I'll knock off the rhetorical exaggeration.

Quote

I have no idea what 'we' are saying.  What *I* am saying is that items are not a lynchpin of RQ.

Items weren't the lynchpin of our old D&D (or RQ) games either.  Actually, I think the lynchpin of D&D was the dungeon crawl.  I understand you feel the focus on loading up on 'stuff' is bad (so do I), but being interested in magic items does not a Monty Hauler make.

Okay.  Truce.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Wolfpack48

[Wolfpack48]

 

Quote

So... is everyone OK with a higher MSRP and further delaying the release ???  'Cos that's the request ...  [N.B. -- we don't actually get a vote here, Chaosium will do whatever they do (and this part of things may well already be locked down due to devs/playtest/publication schedule, and not subject to input or revision (even if we got a vote.  Which we don't.) ) . ]

I think the sooner the release the better -- our group is already pretty eager to convert over to the new Rune Point system and Rune mechanics in general, but we'll take whatever Chaosium is working on whenever they decide to deliver it. 

Quote

 

CAMPAIGN:

• We know that a brand-new Dragon Pass campaign is in the works, scheduled for release 2Q18 (about 4-6 months after  the core rules drop)
• We believe (at least, I believe) RQG will be a hero-wars-oriented edition of RQ, so Sartar & surrounding regions are primary topics for anything "Campaign" oriented (personally, I'd like to see a deeper look at Patriarchal Sartar & Matriarchal Esrolia as contrasting themes, particularly since they worship the same(ish) pantheon!).
• There would seem to be scope for going further afield (which this thread seems to show many grognards want) in:
• standalone / non-campaign adventure modules
• side-quests of larger campaigns
• mini-campaigns of a few linked adventures
• gee, I wish the forum offered list-embedded-in-list structure! 

 

We always thought Griffin Mountain/Pavis/Big Rubble/Borderlands/Sun County/River of Cradles were excellent models for introducing a new area.  "What everyone knows," then information for the GM, then many hooks and adventures featuring interesting sites.  It was a sandboxy approach, but also had good pathways into expanding both within that area, and out to adjoining areas.  If there were lead-ins to the other campaign packs. so much the better.  All of the above, please!

Quote

What I really REALLY want to see is a HUGE push on the "Organized Play" front.  Yes, I *do* know that an OP is coming, but I'm betting my vision is grander than Chaosium's.  I want not just a campaign, but a plethora of products!  Mini-campaigns, standalone adventures, DOZENS of pre-gen PC's at MULTIPLE power-levels (from near-RQ2 starting Zero'es to experienced HeroQuest'ors), etc etc etc...  Actively incentivizing FLGS'es to encourage the OP program & RQ in general (note that this doesn't have to be financial -- how about Chaosium highlight OP games (recent, and upcoming)?  List upcoming OP games on a calendar or searchable db; banner-link to stores that pitch in this way; etc).  Maybe slowly "expire" some of the OP content out of Cult-Only status and slowly build a library of free-to-anyone content (n.b. - press release & free publicity if you drop a meaningful chunk of product as a freebie!) ...  Etc ...

Dangit.  Is it December yet?

[Pentallion]

8 hours ago, styopa said:

 

It's one place where D&D *severely* dropped (and continues to drop) the ball.  Given the prevalence of online play today, as soon as Billy or Mary gets their grubby hands on the rules that they can open a browser and have those tools available would be HUGE.

Actually, if we are REALLY LUCKY, the guy who developed the excellent RQ3 character sheets in the last few months MIGHT be persuaded to create RQG sheets.  IF he is amenable to doing so, I will contact (Rick?  MOB?  Jeff?  Todd?  Not entirely sure which one, probably Rick) and see if they would be conducive to sharing the info he would need to make that happen so that when the game hits the market, Roll20 will already be up and running.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Pentallion

[Yelm's Light]

12 hours ago, g33k said:

It's possible, I think, that a GM who knows RQ2/RQClassic well, has the Quickstart/Demo module in-hand (July 1 for general availability), and has studied the hints in the "Designing the new RuneQuest" blogs & other announcements, might be able to build a 99%-compatible campaign even before the official rules drop (though I suspect the exact details of character-generation will remain uncertain until we have the full rules).  Certainly much of the material can be outlined/designed -- it's 90% RQ2 set in Glorantha, fer criminy's sake:  how hard is THAT for a RQ/Glorantha grognard to do seat-of-the-pants???!?

The major thing that's holding me back is Rune Magic.  I'm strictly RQ2, though I have RQ3 Deluxe and a number of RQ3 campaign books.  I don't know specifically how it's going to work, and I want to be sure I'm on solid ground as far as that's concerned before I start going crazy with writing stuff up.  Most likely I'll come up with some general campaign/scenario notes and then flesh it out when RQG comes out.

[Mankcam]

If you tinker with your own sheets it would be easy enough to make RQ2 sheets with Runes modeled from Pendragon. Plus the Rune Pool idea sounds easy enough. One POW equals a Runepower Pt or something like that, and just grant access to all the spells. 

However I think its prob best to wait to get it from the horse's mouth so as that way you dont need to do retconning down the track, as players will hate that.

I would look at developing a campaign now using the RQ2 Gloranthan Classics as a base. Then it should be ready for kickoff once the official rules arrive late this year.

Plenty of other games to play before then.. 

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Mankcam

[Jon Hunter]

OK to answer opening posts, detailed background supplements including detailed background, cults and adventures for a race or region  to cover; 

• Elfpack
• Lunar Provinces
• Lunar Heartland
• Holy Country
• Grazelanders
• Beast Valley

Also

• New detailed Prax and Pavis adventures
  • block
  • paps
  • tunnel hills
  • more rubbre stuff
• Delectis Marsh adventure pack & Campaign
• Comprehensive cults book
• Reworked and Larger plunder

[soltakss]

On 4/25/2017 at 0:09 AM, Yelm's Light said:

I'm not particularly hot on this idea, either.  It's the D&D syndrome that 'more items' is better.  I remember character sheets with a list of magic items running down the page.  That's never been what RQ was about.

It was for us, back in the day.